Trump warns against admitting unaccompanied migrant children: ‘They’re not innocent’

Top NHST Product · May 25, 2018

Not a surprise at all to anyone that actually listens to what he and his administration says and isn't itching to find something to make them being in power not seem as bad as it is.

I really hope that more people start to get involved in ways to help others and recognize just how bad things are. Hostility towards children is supposed be a good motivator but we've seen that not play out to well when they're white let alone when they're able to be labeled the "other."

RecRoulette · May 25, 2018

Breqesk said:
This thread contextualises what's happening here, and it's even worse than the initial story - which ought to be 'bring down the fucking government to stop this' tier stuff already - implies.

The legal system offers no recourse for this, nor any means - short of a constitutional amendment - of punishing those responsible. Children are being permanently separated from their parents, with some sold to human traffickers, and others outright killed, and there's nothing anyone can do, legally, to stop it, or punish those responsible.

When I saw this and the thing about the missing children, I wondered "At what point does someone step in against us" because this sure as hell isn't getting fixed from the inside.

Horrific

Johnny Blaze · May 25, 2018

Breqesk said:
This thread contextualises what's happening here, and it's even worse than the initial story - which ought to be 'bring down the fucking government to stop this' tier stuff already - implies.

The legal system offers no recourse for this, nor any means - short of a constitutional amendment - of punishing those responsible. Children are being permanently separated from their parents, with some sold to human traffickers, and others outright killed, and there's nothing anyone can do, legally, to stop it, or punish those responsible.

Killed and sold by the ICE/US Government?

Alright I read the thing now. The US is becoming a de facto fascist state with genocidal tendencies.

EdibleKnife · May 25, 2018

Breqesk said:
This thread contextualises what's happening here, and it's even worse than the initial story - which ought to be 'bring down the fucking government to stop this' tier stuff already - implies.

The legal system offers no recourse for this, nor any means - short of a constitutional amendment - of punishing those responsible. Children are being permanently separated from their parents, with some sold to human traffickers, and others outright killed, and there's nothing anyone can do, legally, to stop it, or punish those responsible.

Revelations like this are the things that make it clear that anyone still supporting this administration among this willful disregard of the lives of children for the sake of rallying a vicious bloodthirsty population has forsaken their humanity. This is a litmus test and those that fail reveal that Trump, the GOP and their own comfortable lives surpass the importantance of empathy. The US administration and it's supporters aren't just deplorable anymore, they are monsters.

Deleted member 8561 · May 25, 2018

Gotta love the obvious de-humanization of a specific group of people. I remember in class someone asking "how could people kill kids?"

This is how.

acheron_xl · May 25, 2018

TheLostBigBoss said:
Gotta love the obvious de-humanization of a specific group of people. I remember in class someone asking "how could people kill kids?"

This is how.

I'm waiting for the 1500 missing kids to turn up in a mass grave someday.

Shadybiz · May 25, 2018

Fuck you, you fuckin' fuck.

obin_gam said:
Does anyone actually anytime question Trumps statements to his face? I mean make him explain himself?
This should really be such an occasion...

Chaos2Frozen said:
Anytime someone even remotely tries to question him that coward just played deaf and runs away. It's beyond infuriating.

Correct. I've seen a couple of instances of reporters asking him if he can back up his claims, and he'll usually play deaf, look away, or say something like "Excuse me, excuse me, (something completely unrelated)."

shnurgleton · May 25, 2018

Vast armies of evil immigrant baby terrorists are attending our universities, paying our taxes, treating our sick, and marrying our daughters

Tequila Mockingbird · May 25, 2018

Breqesk said:
This thread contextualises what's happening here, and it's even worse than the initial story - which ought to be 'bring down the fucking government to stop this' tier stuff already - implies.

The legal system offers no recourse for this, nor any means - short of a constitutional amendment - of punishing those responsible. Children are being permanently separated from their parents, with some sold to human traffickers, and others outright killed, and there's nothing anyone can do, legally, to stop it, or punish those responsible.

Off subject but what is he referring to with the Volkswagen baby nursery? I googled it but only comes up with VW camper van themed nursery decorations..

HiredN00bs · May 25, 2018

How prevalent is MS-13 in the U.S.? If they're exploiting weaknesses and defencies in our immigration system to bring in more gang members, that needs to be addressed in some way.

This is another reason why Trump is so damaging to our society. Even when there may be a legitimate problem that requires government intervention, people assume that it isn't. He's the boy who cried wolf.

EdibleKnife · May 25, 2018

Tequila Mockingbird said:
Off subject but what is he referring to with the Volkswagen baby nursery? I googled it but only comes up with VW camper van themed nursery decorations..

Volkswagen Nazi-Era Blood Crimes

The Nation said:
When the nursery in Wolfsburg first opened, some mothers were allowed to breast-feed their babies after work. Once the nursery was moved to Rühen, that generally proved impossible. Still, Anna had every reason to believe that Józef would be cared for. The nursery's name—Kinderheim, or "children's home"—suggested a warm, comforting, protective environment. Moreover, Volkswagen provided doctors and a corps of nurses. As a nursery worker reported of one mother, she "has a lot of good feelings that her child would be taken care of." Then she added ominously, "But this good feeling is short-lived."

That's because the Kinderheim wasn't a nursery; nor was it warm, comforting, and protective. Instead, it consisted of two primitive, ramshackle wooden barracks with no amenities whatsoever. When Anna visited Józefin the evening, she was horrified. The purpose of the Kinderheim, she realized, was not to save the children but to kill them. And Volkswagen was not simply complicit; the company, not the Nazis, was the perpetrator of the murders.

Breqesk · May 25, 2018

Tequila Mockingbird said:
Off subject but what is he referring to with the Volkswagen baby nursery? I googled it but only comes up with VW camper van themed nursery decorations..

The New York Times

While conditions at the factory were slightly better than in the concentration camps, inmates were overseen by SS guards and were poorly fed and frequently beaten or shot for minor infractions. Children born to forced laborers were taken away and housed in a squalid nursery overseen by an SS doctor, where 365 of the infants died.

Taken from this article on the dismissal of a VW-employed historian.

RecRoulette · May 25, 2018

Tequila Mockingbird said:
Off subject but what is he referring to with the Volkswagen baby nursery? I googled it but only comes up with VW camper van themed nursery decorations..

This.

One of the most ghoulish things I've ever read. As someone who has a high tolerance for seeing and reading about messed up shit, this is the first thing in a long time that actually got to me. The bugs...

Deleted member 1570 · May 25, 2018

I am not a religious person, but I really hope there is a hell for Donald Trump and people like him.

Shadybiz · May 25, 2018

HiredN00bs said:
How prevalent is MS-13 in the U.S.? If they're exploiting weaknesses and defencies in our immigration system to bring in more gang members, that needs to be addressed in some way.

This is another reason why Trump is so damaging to our society. Even when there may be a legitimate problem that requires government intervention, people assume that it isn't. He's the boy who cried wolf.

Well they certainly have a presence. According to this, it's around 10,000 members in the U.S. SOME of what Trump claims is true, but as usual, he leaves important points out (emphasis in quotes is mine).
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...ation-ms-13-and-crime-facts-behind-donald-tr/

According to June 2017 written testimony from U.S. Border Patrol Acting Chief Carla Provost, since fiscal year 2012 U.S. Border Patrol apprehended 159 unaccompanied alien children with confirmed or suspected gang affiliations. Of the 159 children, 56 were suspected or confirmed to be affiliated with MS-13, according to Provost.

(Around 45,400 unaccompanied minors, on average, were apprehended per fiscal year from 2012 to 2017.)

"Not all unaccompanied minors get involved in gangs, and not all gang members are undocumented immigrants but were often born in the United States," Wolf said.

"While the overwhelming majority of these children live law-abiding lives, (unaccompanied alien children) are undoubtedly a source of recruitment for MS-13," Sini said.

Overall, several studies have found that immigrants are less likely to commit crimes than U.S.-born individuals.

Verdict:

Trump said many gang members have taken advantage of "glaring loopholes and our laws to enter the country as illegal, unaccompanied, alien minors."

What Trump in the past has referred to as "loopholes" are requirements explicitly called for in the law. It's also uncertain how many gang members have come to the United States as unaccompanied minors, but some law enforcement officials said some have.

Experts note unaccompanied minors are vulnerable to recruitment after their arrival to the United States. In many cases, these minors are the victims of the gangs rather than perpetrators of crime.

We rate Trump's claim Half True.

UnderNewOwnership · May 25, 2018

RecRoulette said:
This.

One of the most ghoulish things I've ever read. As someone who has a high tolerance for seeing and reading about messed up shit, this is the first thing in a long time that actually got to me. The bugs...

All the high-ranking industrial leadership of wartime Germany should've been executed. All of them. They were just as complicit to the crimes as Frick and Seyss-Inquart themselves.

Schreckweg 5000 · May 25, 2018

Mods, may I wish him the life of a immigrant kid under the Trump regime?

Breqesk · May 25, 2018

HiredN00bs said:
How prevalent is MS-13 in the U.S.? If they're exploiting weaknesses and defencies in our immigration system to bring in more gang members, that needs to be addressed in some way.

This is another reason why Trump is so damaging to our society. Even when there may be a legitimate problem that requires government intervention, people assume that it isn't. He's the boy who cried wolf.

Nothing MS-13 could possibly do is worse than what ICE are already doing--they simply don't have the scale for it. They're a fucking prop, and ICE's efforts to 'combat' them are only going to make the problem worse--and that's on top of the fucking heinous shit they're doing to innocent people, innocent children.

You're falling for exactly the same tactics that have been used throughout history to justify the systemic dehumanisation of whole classes of people. 'Cockroaches', 'Vermin', 'Animals'. You're falling for rhetoric that exists to justify murder. Read this again, and tell me how it could possibly be justified, under any circumstance:

1,475 kids, lost for good. They could be dead, they could be in the hands of traffickers, they could be on the fucking street. Nothing justifies this.

(Oh, and it's worth remembering that's it's not just Trump and the Republicans who stand behind ICE.)

This is why, when people ask for 'civil political discourse', or to 'respect that they voted for the candidate they wanted', or get all teary about thrown drinks and punched nazis, the only correct response is contempt. This is what that attitude allows to happen. This is what that attitude is powerless to prevent.

Deleted member 1248 · May 25, 2018

Any Trump supporters wanna weigh in on this or nah?

EdibleKnife · May 25, 2018

The Kree said:
Any Trump supporters wanna weigh in on this or nah?

Nope. Cowardly scum like them are either celebrating this news, ignoring it, or desperately trying to scrape together falsities meant to excuse or dismiss these facts as "exaggerated" or "untrue". Hell if a Trump supporter does enter this topic, I can garuntee that the first thing they'll post is something about how Obama was just as cruel or Hilary wouldn't have been any better.

Keasar · May 25, 2018

Disgusting pigheaded fucker...

They're fucking children you arse.

Foffy · May 25, 2018

Not a fan of how the political right is literally playing both sides to this problem. They can claim all immigrants here are unpeople, and if you defend those people, you're defending a gang that isn't worth defending.

They've created another smokescreen for violence and division. Quite disgusting to see this unfold in real time in the span of a week. We've gone from claiming adults are animals with the "Are you defending MS-13?!" retorts, to now the same card played on children, which will likely get the same stupid response of defending gangs.

Digital Dinosaur · May 25, 2018

A reminder that this is all in-line with every word out of Trump's mouth since the start of his campaign when he leveraged basic American racism against brown people.

Racist Americans "know" that all brown people are in some way connected to "the gangs". Gangs are what brown people just "do". Also, a reminder that racists, Trump's audience, have long ago dehumanized all brown people including children. The racist rhetoric on immigration the last decade or so has really ratcheted up framing children as subversive agents used to play on sympathies and sneak Bad Hombres across the border.

HiredN00bs · May 25, 2018

Breqesk said:
Nothing MS-13 could possibly do is worse than what ICE are already doing--they simply don't have the scale for it. They're a fucking prop, and ICE's efforts to 'combat' them are only going to make the problem worse--and that's on top of the fucking heinous shit they're doing to innocent people, innocent children.

You're falling for exactly the same tactics that have been used throughout history to justify the systemic dehumanisation of whole classes of people. 'Cockroaches', 'Vermin', 'Animals'. You're falling for rhetoric that exists to justify murder. Read this again, and tell me how it could possibly be justified, under any circumstance:

1,475 kids, lost for good. They could be dead, they could be in the hands of traffickers, they could be on the fucking street. Nothing justifies this.

(Oh, and it's worth remembering that's it's not just Trump and the Republicans who stand behind ICE.)

This is why, when people ask for 'civil political discourse', or to 'respect that they voted for the candidate they wanted', or get all teary about thrown drinks and punched nazis, the only correct response is contempt. This is what that attitude allows to happen. This is what that attitude is powerless to prevent.

This is so incindiery and condescending. Please don't tell me what I'm falling for. Problems are going to be of different importance to different people at different times. If there's an MS-13 gang chopping someone to bits at your local park, it might be the most immediate concern in your life at that moment. I think that ICE and the system of immigration courts is a larger and more impactful problem, obviously, but that doesn't mean we don't need ethical people at all levels of government working on solving all of these problems at the same time. It's not like EITHER we help children OR we address violent gangs. We have to do both.

Deleted member 11985 · May 25, 2018

The Russian bots on reddit are really running with this "animals" description right now. This is way too much. Trump crossed a major red line calling immigrants animals. His words, and the words of a lot of politicians, have a lot of sway, and he just lit a bonfire among his stupid base.

hjort · May 25, 2018

Everything that is worth saying about Trump would get me banned in this place.

Kernel · May 25, 2018

compo said:
The Russian bots on reddit are really running with this "animals" description right now. This is way too much. Trump crossed a major red line calling immigrants animals. His words, and the words of a lot of politicians, have a lot of sway, and he just lit a bonfire among his stupid base.

They amplify any major issue to cause division and chaos.

Social media not doing enough banning them.

Breqesk · May 25, 2018

HiredN00bs said:
This is so incindiery and condescending. Please don't tell me what I'm falling for. Problems are going to be of different importance to different people at different times. If there's an MS-13 gang chopping someone to bits with machetes at your local park, it might be the most immediate concern in your life at that moment. I think that ICE and the system of immigration courts is a larger and more impactful problem, obviously, but that doesn't mean we don't need ethical people at all levels of government working on solving all of these problems at the same time. It's not like EITHER we help children OR we address violent gangs. We have to do both.

You've responded to a report on an atrocity, currently in progress, being committed by the US government, with 'Well, they have to do something to stop these gangs!'

Meanwhile, the kids keep vanishing. It won't be long before we're in the multiple thousands.

If that isn't falling for their rhetoric, I don't know what is.

(And 'incendiary'? If I were saying the things that ought be said about this situation, about what ICE are doing, I'd be banned from the site. You have no concept of what 'incendiary' is.)

ISOM · May 25, 2018

I wonder if the clowns who kept saying but he's talking about ms 13 wil make excuses for him in this thread.

Deleted member 3208 · May 25, 2018

Saya said:
Kinda related:

And the people responsible for this will never pay for their crimes.

Bleepey · May 25, 2018

Why is it Donald Trump only cares about Russians kids

HiredN00bs · May 25, 2018

Breqesk said:
You've responded to a report on an atrocity, currently in progress, being committed by the US government, with 'Well, they have to do something to stop these gangs!'

Meanwhile, the kids keep vanishing. It won't be long before we're in the multiple thousands.

If that isn't falling for their rhetoric, I don't know what is.

(And 'incendiary'? If I were saying the things that ought be said about this situation, about what ICE are doing, I'd be banned from the site. You have no concept of what 'incendiary' is.)

Am I supposed to simply parrot everyone else's responses instead of offering something different? This is a discussion forum, not a theater stage. I state in my response to you that I agree with you about the moral and ethical hierarchy of these problems, but you're more concerned about tarring and feathering someone for stepping out of line than reading and understanding the content of my writing.

NeonBlack · May 25, 2018

The Lollipop Guild with through some violent times.

HiredN00bs · May 25, 2018

ISOM said:
I wonder if the clowns who kept saying but he's talking about ms 13 wil make excuses for him in this thread.

Do you honestly think he was saying toddlers are not innocent? Trump says a lot of awful things, and his ordering about these problems is upside-down and racially motivated. We shouldn't engage in false arguments when there's a treasure trove of real shit to condemn.

Deleted member 11985 · May 25, 2018

HiredN00bs said:
Do you honestly think he was saying toddlers are not innocent? Trump says a lot of awful things, and his ordering about these problems is upside-down and racially motivated. We shouldn't engage in false arguments when there's a treasure trove of real shit to condemn.

Did you read the OP? Trump literally said immigrant children are not innocent.

daveo42 · May 25, 2018

He means MS13 kids. Obviously.

IcedBlackCoffee · May 25, 2018

ICE needs to be purged from America.

EdibleKnife · May 25, 2018

HiredN00bs said:
Do you honestly think he was saying toddlers are not innocent? Trump says a lot of awful things, and his ordering about these problems is upside-down and racially motivated. We shouldn't engage in false arguments when there's a treasure trove of real shit to condemn.

This:

Trump added: "They look so innocent. They're not innocent."

Isn't exactly nuanced. If he wanted to exclude toddlers, he has the mouth and faculties to make that distinction but he didn't. Even if he wasn't talking about toddlers, that doesn't reduce the statement's heinous connotations.

Powdered Egg · May 25, 2018

HiredN00bs said:
How prevalent is MS-13 in the U.S.? If they're exploiting weaknesses and defencies in our immigration system to bring in more gang members, that needs to be addressed in some way.

This is another reason why Trump is so damaging to our society. Even when there may be a legitimate problem that requires government intervention, people assume that it isn't. He's the boy who cried wolf.

There are more Klansmen, Crips, Bloods, Italian, and Russian Mafia in the US than there are MS13 members, yet US society somehow hasn't collapsed. Latinos have been demonized for at least a decade since I first tuned into Fox News. MS13 is a smokescreen to violate the human rights of people who are fleeing countries that the US has destabilized in recent decades.

Some people play way too much with treating politics as just a difference of opinion. Whether they know about it or not, this is what Republican voters are supporting. It's ironic that they believed in a Hillary pedophile ring from a pizza shop. Where do you think some of these missing kids will end up? But who cares, they're Latinos stealing our jobs and importing gangsterism!

I Don't Like · May 25, 2018

HiredN00bs said:
We shouldn't engage in false arguments when there's a treasure trove of real shit to condemn.

Yeah, like when he said migrant children are not innocent, in the OP, the one you didn't read.

Dierce · May 25, 2018

It's incredible when you consider every single thing that republicans rail against they themselves created. They are responsible for making the conditions ripe for gangs to form, for human trafficking to occur and discrimination to rise. Anyone who votes for them is only creating more problems which subconsciously they might deem necessary to legitimize their existence.

ISOM · May 25, 2018

HiredN00bs said:
Do you honestly think he was saying toddlers are not innocent? Trump says a lot of awful things, and his ordering about these problems is upside-down and racially motivated. We shouldn't engage in false arguments when there's a treasure trove of real shit to condemn.

I see clown number 1 has shown up. He pretty clearly talks about kids in the OP. Stop making excuses for this bigoted piece of shit.

Saya · May 25, 2018

I really hope this story gets more attention

Duxxy3 · May 25, 2018

Yes they fucking are. They're kids FFS.

gaugebozo · May 25, 2018

And there are people who even for a second thought he gave a shit about DACA.

Chopchop · May 25, 2018

obin_gam said:
Does anyone actually anytime question Trumps statements to his face? I mean make him explain himself?
This should really be such an occasion...

That's happened a few times, but I agree that it's not often enough. Here's an article of what happened when someone called out his plan to arm teachers. The dipshit hugged himself and rocked like a sulking 2-year-old.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...5a06963/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.9796a3f1d6d0

My guess is that the few times when he's not surrounded by yes men, most of the things he says are so fucking stupid that it takes a while to even figure out where to start asking questions, and by then he's rambled on to the next fucking stupid statement.

nded · May 25, 2018

Man, imagine how bad the accompanied alien majors are.

ThatMeanScene · May 25, 2018

These missing children new stories are ripping my heart apart. I can't believe this is happening.

Schreckweg 5000 · May 25, 2018

You know your side is plain evil when your defense is "HE DIDN'T EXPLICITLY REFER TO TODDLERS, JUST ALL CHILDREN IN GENERAL!"

onadesertedisland · May 25, 2018

No moral individual could go to work for the current US immigration and custom enforcement agency. It's a de facto gestapo at this point.

Trump warns against admitting unaccompanied migrant children: ‘They’re not innocent’

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