• Light/Dark

Travis Strikes Again gets a new opening cinematic patched in, Killer7 x NMH crossover

NotLiquid

NotLiquid

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
36,233
The seven-day patch that Grasshopper has been teasing is out, and it's a Killer7 crossover. It's been datamined for a while, for now this is the only YouTube video (without subtitles).



Dan Smith returns (voiced by his original voice actor). Badman is revealed to be Birkin ("The Batman"), a character who was in a Killer7 sidestory called Killer Is Dead. He sold out Dan Smith to Curtis Blackburn. Dan gives Badman the ETT2 Death Ball to allow him a chance to resurrect his daughter, and then asks of him to kill Travis Touchdown.
Killer7 and No More Heroes are now canonically set in the same universe.
 
vestan

vestan

#REFANTAZIO SWEEP
Member
Dec 28, 2017
26,291
posting my comment from the OT

i really hope there's some actual purpose to introducing Dan here instead of just cheap fanservice, i have so many questions, namely how is he even around, how the fuck did he get a death ball, what happened to all the other personas, how is mills still alive? I mean Curtis is dead so we can surmise that everything revolving around the events of the Coburn gym actually happened. if that's the case, what the fuck happened to the US? did Japan end up conquering the entire world like the ending of Lion suggested? was Matsuoka killed by Emir? did the US declare war on the world? i was always under the impression that Killer7 and No More Heroes weren't in a shared universe but Suda referenced Garcian/Emir at the end of NMH1 just for shits and giggles but this changes everything. Killer7 and No More Heroes are now officially connected. IIRC Suda went on record to state that the NMH franchise is separate from all the other Kill the Past titles. We know this isn't the case anymore with Travis Strikes Again. Even looking back on Killer7, it didn't really tie into any of the other KTP games (in the official sense anyways, there's a lot of speculation like Iwazaru, Kikazaru and Mizaru being Sumio, Fyuki and Iseki and that Garcian is a stock body of Sumio Mondo), only from a thematic standpoint.

i don't see them just introducing Dan like this for no reason if they aren't planning on answering some of these questions. like this is HUGE. are they about to retcon Killer7? considering Curtis is dead, maybe the meeting between Dan and Bad Man happens during the events of Killer7 instead of after it.

this still wouldn't explain how
  1. Travis is able to board a commercial plane to Japan
  2. How the internet still exists
  3. Why Japan hasn't been nuked to oblivion. I mean everything seems to be running as normal if TSA is anything to go by as we get to go to Akihabara and visit a maid cafe business as usual
 
Billfisto

Billfisto

Member
Oct 30, 2017
16,367
Canada
I know it's a pipe dream, and I already have all the games on disparate platforms, but I really wish they'd be able to release a unified box set or something.
 
Dreamboum

Dreamboum

Member
Oct 28, 2017
23,395
This means TSA created a Sudaverse out there where everything is connected.

- Badman was actually a character Suda created 15 years ago that is part of the Killer7 mythos. It is now revealed he sold out Dan because he wanted revenge against Travis
- Dan is now the orchestrator of the events of Travis Strikes Again by giving Badman the first Death Ball and the location of Travis Touchdown
- Travis is seen as the champ of "above ground", meaning that things like the Smith Syndicate are even more powerful beings in the underground
- Badman sits at the exact same place Dan died in Killer7
 

Deleted member 17627

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,364
Is it bad I'm still hoping that we might get some sort of Lily Bergamo tease for this? And yes, I am ready to be scolded for still believing that that game can still happen.
 
EatChildren

EatChildren

Wonder from Down Under
Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,243
vestan said:
posting my comment from the OT

i really hope there's some actual purpose to introducing Dan here instead of just cheap fanservice, i have so many questions, namely how is he even around, how the fuck did he get a death ball, what happened to all the other personas, how is mills still alive? I mean Curtis is dead so we can surmise that everything revolving around the events of the Coburn gym actually happened. if that's the case, what the fuck happened to the US? did Japan end up conquering the entire world like the ending of Lion suggested? was Matsuoka killed by Emir? did the US declare war on the world? i was always under the impression that Killer7 and No More Heroes weren't in a shared universe but Suda referenced Garcian/Emir at the end of NMH1 just for shits and giggles but this changes everything. Killer7 and No More Heroes are now officially connected. IIRC Suda went on record to state that the NMH franchise is separate from all the other Kill the Past titles. We know this isn't the case anymore with Travis Strikes Again. Even looking back on Killer7, it didn't really tie into any of the other KTP games (in the official sense anyways, there's a lot of speculation like Iwazaru, Kikazaru and Mizaru being Sumio, Fyuki and Iseki and that Garcian is a stock body of Sumio Mondo), only from a thematic standpoint.

i don't see them just introducing Dan like this for no reason if they aren't planning on answering some of these questions. like this is HUGE. are they about to retcon Killer7? considering Curtis is dead, maybe the meeting between Dan and Bad Man happens during the events of Killer7 instead of after it.

this still wouldn't explain how
  1. Travis is able to board a commercial plane to Japan
  2. How the internet still exists
  3. Why Japan hasn't been nuked to oblivion
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Honestly, I don't know if the connects are all as direct as you're thinking (MASSIVE END GAME SPOILERS FOR TRAVIS STRIKES AGAIN):

I kinda don't buy the theory some are throwing around of a Suda-verse where the Kill the Past series amongst others are all literally connected as part of a singular, linear universe. I get why people feel this way, but I don't buy it. I don't buy it because unlike every other Suda series No More Heroes is explicitly littered with fourth wall breaking, player referential, video game specific thematic devices and narrative exposition. The standard opening of Travis Strikes Again has Travis and Bad Man outright referencing "the gamers", and the world of video games, and the game from that point continuously breaks the fourth wall, blurring the lines between the digital universe and the real one.

This is the same game that has Travis talk to Garcia, as if they both exist as real individuals, but also outright explores Shadows of the Damned as a video game that Travis has played. TSA doesn't give a fuck. Its sense of time, presence, and reality have absolutely no tangible, concrete consistency. Even the visual novels straight up reference the fact they are visual novels being experienced by players, and that this Travis Strikes again is a video game.

So yeah. I don't know if it's so much a question of Dan, and Killer7, and the Kill the Past series, so much as a weird olive branch between franchises, and very much representative of how Grasshopper's explosion of fame came about specifically between and during the passage of Killer7 and No More Heroes.
 
OP
OP
NotLiquid

NotLiquid

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
36,233
vestan said:
posting my comment from the OT

i really hope there's some actual purpose to introducing Dan here instead of just cheap fanservice, i have so many questions, namely how is he even around, how the fuck did he get a death ball, what happened to all the other personas, how is mills still alive? I mean Curtis is dead so we can surmise that everything revolving around the events of the Coburn gym actually happened. if that's the case, what the fuck happened to the US? did Japan end up conquering the entire world like the ending of Lion suggested? was Matsuoka killed by Emir? did the US declare war on the world? i was always under the impression that Killer7 and No More Heroes weren't in a shared universe but Suda referenced Garcian/Emir at the end of NMH1 just for shits and giggles but this changes everything. Killer7 and No More Heroes are now officially connected. IIRC Suda went on record to state that the NMH franchise is separate from all the other Kill the Past titles. We know this isn't the case anymore with Travis Strikes Again. Even looking back on Killer7, it didn't really tie into any of the other KTP games (in the official sense anyways, there's a lot of speculation like Iwazaru, Kikazaru and Mizaru being Sumio, Fyuki and Iseki and that Garcian is a stock body of Sumio Mondo), only from a thematic standpoint.

i don't see them just introducing Dan like this for no reason if they aren't planning on answering some of these questions. like this is HUGE. are they about to retcon Killer7? considering Curtis is dead, maybe the meeting between Dan and Bad Man happens during the events of Killer7 instead of after it.

this still wouldn't explain how
  1. Travis is able to board a commercial plane to Japan
  2. How the internet still exists
  3. Why Japan hasn't been nuked to oblivion. I mean everything seems to be running as normal if TSA is anything to go by as we get to go to Akihabara and visit a maid cafe business as usual
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I was going to suggest that aerospace travel may have been reinstated post-Alter Ego but the timeline between Cloudman and Smile is so tight that there's no reasonable way that they can explain away most of this stuff. Since Mills is mentioned in the opening, it has to be set before Smile.

The one explanation I can think of is that it has to be set in an alternate timeline where the fireworks during Sunset were launched and Japan survived. Either that or it's a total reset post-Shanghai. Hand in killer7 implied that a new Smith Syndicate was established which featured Mask de Smith (or at least a successor) as a dominant personality. I think we can also conclude that the Calgary wrestler Travis trained with must have been Mask, and those initials weren't just an easter egg if so.
 
Portalbox

Portalbox

Member
Oct 25, 2017
168
This doesn't replace any cutscenes/videos in the actual game, right? This is just extra? I haven't played it yet so I don't know what's the actual opening cinematic like.
 

Deleted member 2550

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
193
Is this the big thing that everyone has been freaking out about in the OT after reaching the endgame? Haven't had the chance to play much yet and was trying to avoid any big surprises.
 
vestan

vestan

#REFANTAZIO SWEEP
Member
Dec 28, 2017
26,291
Eolz said:
Can we stop with open spoilers in the title of a thread please?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
How is this a spoiler? This is literally an intro Grasshopper patched into the game. This is something they want people to see as it is setting up Badman Strikes Back.
Tomat said:
Is this the big thing that everyone has been freaking out about in the OT after reaching the endgame? Haven't had the chance to play much yet and was trying to avoid any big surprises.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
No this is something entirely different
 
Foffy

Foffy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,026
Isn't this more of a wink ala Viewtiful Joe and Wonderful 101, where characters from the first set of games are implied to exist in the world of the second as fanservice, or like, is this a kinda mythology where going ahead, understanding Killer7 would help to get more out of No More Heroes?

And what's this "Kill the Past" stuff in summa the other posts here? Was there an implied fictional universe NMH had with other games?
 
OP
OP
NotLiquid

NotLiquid

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
36,233
Tomat said:
Is this the big thing that everyone has been freaking out about in the OT after reaching the endgame? Haven't had the chance to play much yet and was trying to avoid any big surprises.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Nah. This is new.

Trying to keep this thread free of actual TSA spoilers. This is just a new intro when you start the game up.
 
vestan

vestan

#REFANTAZIO SWEEP
Member
Dec 28, 2017
26,291
Foffy said:
Isn't this more of a wink ala Viewtiful Joe and Wonderful 101, where characters from the first set of games are implied to exist in the world of the second as fanservice, or like, is this a kinda mythology where going ahead, understanding Killer7 would help to get more out of No More Heroes?

And what's this "Kill the Past" stuff in summa the other posts here? Was there an implied fictional universe NMH had with other games?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
There's actual weight to this intro cinematic when you take into account all of the events in TSA and the fact that Dan Smith kicked off the events of that game by giving Bad Man a death ball years prior. It's not just a simple wink wink nudge nudge which makes me think they'll go further with this.
 
OP
OP
NotLiquid

NotLiquid

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
36,233
Foffy said:
Isn't this more of a wink ala Viewtiful Joe and Wonderful 101, where characters from the first set of games are implied to exist in the world of the second as fanservice, or like, is this a kinda mythology where going ahead, understanding Killer7 would help to get more out of No More Heroes?

And what's this "Kill the Past" stuff in summa the other posts here? Was there an implied fictional universe NMH had with other games?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Kill The Past is a sort of metaverse Suda's set up as far back as Moonlight Syndrome. The continuity is tenuous at best, only a few games have any direct relations to one another - usually it's just the presence of certain symbolic storytelling themes or likenesses, as well as a rare cameo popping up every now and then.

None of it has been explicitly interconnected but TSA is the first time Suda's been trying to tie a lot of his properties into something resembling a bow. This particular intro is actually based off of a Killer7 sidestory that was published in Japan called Killer Is Dead. There's no widespread translation, but the fact that Badman's name is confirmed to be Birkin (who in that series was referred to as "The Batman") confirms that this is setup that has existed for at least 15 years. Travis Strikes Again's co-op character is technically a Killer7 character.

Also it's kinda funny to think now that Bad Girl in No More Heroes was taking her beer out of a "Chiller7" fridge.
 
Capra

Capra

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,540
Foffy said:
And what's this "Kill the Past" stuff in summa the other posts here? Was there an implied fictional universe NMH had with other games?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Kill the Past is an overarching universe composed of games tied together either explicitly (The Silver Case, Flower Sun and Rain, The 25th Ward) or loosely through implied connections (Killer 7, No More Heroes).

Travis Strikes Again goes a step beyond by inserting a lot of explicit connections through Suda's entire history of work (at least the ones Grasshopper could get the rights to use in TSA).
 
Last edited:
Billfisto

Billfisto

Member
Oct 30, 2017
16,367
Canada
Foffy said:
And what's this "Kill the Past" stuff in summa the other posts here? Was there an implied fictional universe NMH had with other games?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

The Silver Case, The 25th Ward, and Flower, Sun, and Rain, which were explicitly the same universe. Killer7 and NMH had a lot of similarities, but were never explicitly stated to be the same universe, or had details that seemed incompatible with it. There seems to be a push towards explicitly connecting the universe, or explaining away the incompatibilities.
 
cj_iwakura

cj_iwakura

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,195
Coral Springs, FL
Billfisto said:
The Silver Case, The 25th Ward, and Flower, Sun, and Rain, which were explicitly the same universe. Killer7 and NMH had a lot of similarities, but were never explicitly stated to be the same universe, or had details that seemed incompatible with it. There seems to be a push towards explicitly connecting the universe, or explaining away the incompatibilities.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

I've always thought NMH and KTP were linked, a lot of fan theories do too.

emilparker.jpg

There's much controversy around the internet over the identity of the African man during the true ending of No More Heroes.
I can't see why though. Considering that the Killer 7 were actually killed off in their own fucking game.
If you played through enough Suda 51 games you tend to see a pattern where the main character of a former Suda 51 title. Will make a return in a newer Suda 51 game only to bite the bullet within that same appearance.

I've already showed you an example earlier of two characters from Moonlight Syndrome who die during the first chapter of Silver Case. (One of them being a main character no less.) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c3ba_sAneAM​
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
 
OP
OP
NotLiquid

NotLiquid

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
36,233
Just as a reminder, a lot of the Killer7 stuff may be expanded in Badman Strikes Back which is expected to launch in February and feature six new scenarios written by the co-writer of The Silver Case (specifically the writer behind the Placebo scenario which a lot of fans like to think is the best scenario in the game). Since Travis was chilling with Kamui for his adventure segments, I wouldn't be surprised if we see some more Killer7 cameos now that we know Badman is Birkin.
 

Deleted member 34197

User requested account closure
Banned
Nov 23, 2017
235
EatChildren said:
Honestly, I don't know if the connects are all as direct as you're thinking (MASSIVE END GAME SPOILERS FOR TRAVIS STRIKES AGAIN):

I kinda don't buy the theory some are throwing around of a Suda-verse where the Kill the Past series amongst others are all literally connected as part of a singular, linear universe. I get why people feel this way, but I don't buy it. I don't buy it because unlike every other Suda series No More Heroes is explicitly littered with fourth wall breaking, player referential, video game specific thematic devices and narrative exposition. The standard opening of Travis Strikes Again has Travis and Bad Man outright referencing "the gamers", and the world of video games, and the game from that point continuously breaks the fourth wall, blurring the lines between the digital universe and the real one.

This is the same game that has Travis talk to Garcia, as if they both exist as real individuals, but also outright explores Shadows of the Damned as a video game that Travis has played. TSA doesn't give a fuck. Its sense of time, presence, and reality have absolutely no tangible, concrete consistency. Even the visual novels straight up reference the fact they are visual novels being experienced by players, and that this Travis Strikes again is a video game.

So yeah. I don't know if it's so much a question of Dan, and Killer7, and the Kill the Past series, so much as a weird olive branch between franchises, and very much representative of how Grasshopper's explosion of fame came about specifically between and during the passage of Killer7 and No More Heroes.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I think you are totally right and this is the only possible interpretation, at least for now.
 
Dascu

Dascu

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,047
NotLiquid said:
Just as a reminder, a lot of the Killer7 stuff may be expanded in Badman Strikes Back which is expected to launch in February and feature six new scenarios written by the co-writer of The Silver Case (specifically the writer behind the Placebo scenario which a lot of fans like to think is the best scenario in the game). Since Travis was chilling with Kamui for his adventure segments, I wouldn't be surprised if we see some more Killer7 cameos now that we know Badman is Birkin.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Badman chilling with Tokio Morishima
 
Capra

Capra

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,540
NotLiquid said:
Just as a reminder, a lot of the Killer7 stuff may be expanded in Badman Strikes Back which is expected to launch in February and feature six new scenarios written by the co-writer of The Silver Case (specifically the writer behind the Placebo scenario which a lot of fans like to think is the best scenario in the game). Since Travis was chilling with Kamui for his adventure segments, I wouldn't be surprised if we see some more Killer7 cameos now that we know Badman is Birkin.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

I forget, did Morishima show up in Travis Strikes Back? Seems like a good time for our good friend turtleguy to make an appearance.
 
Foffy

Foffy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,026
I'm still a bit lost here. I can understand a bit of the K7 x NMH jazz from what I gather, but is it just those games, or are other games part of this now, too?
 
OP
OP
NotLiquid

NotLiquid

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
36,233
Foffy said:
I'm still a bit lost here. I can understand a bit of the K7 x NMH jazz from what I gather, but is it just those games, or are other games part of this now, too?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
A character from The Silver Case commonly shows up in TSA as a "sidekick" of sorts during Travis' adventure, so yeah, there's more to it than just those two games.
 
cj_iwakura

cj_iwakura

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,195
Coral Springs, FL
The KTP trilogy(and going further if you want to include Syndrome) has a long sordid history of characters from previous games showing up in sequels only to meet horrible deaths.
 
Foffy

Foffy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,026
NotLiquid said:
A character from The Silver Case commonly shows up in TSA as a "sidekick" of sorts during Travis' adventure, so yeah, there's more to it than just those two games.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Dang, there's more?

Someone need to make a list of these connections. I'm a big fan of this stuff, but I'm only familiar with the NMH titles.
 
vestan

vestan

#REFANTAZIO SWEEP
Member
Dec 28, 2017
26,291
Foffy said:
Dang, there's more?

Someone need to make a list of these connections. I'm a big fan of this stuff, but I'm only familiar with the NMH titles.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
TSA directly references each of these games (and manga)

The Silver Case
Flower, Sun, and Rain
Killer7
The 25th Ward
Diabolical Pitch
No More Heroes
No More Heroes 2
Shadows of the Damned
Killer Is Dead
Kurayami Dance
and Hotline Miami
 
You must log in or register to reply here.