I need to actually watch a movie before calling it thematically problematic and tone-deaf, especially one which has garnered a lot of praise.
I'm pretty sure John Wick was straight up in Fortnite at some point.Probably, Epic did shamelessly copy John Wick so there is precedent of having R rated movie costumes.
They will call it "Clowner"
so you have critics who say movie is bad and more critics who say movie is good. you decide the lesser amount is right?
The talk of credible threats is- again- a lesson in stochastic terrorism and actual research by the FBI.then what is all the talk about credible threats? is that not linked to the movie's thenes and tone deafness? or is that a separate discussion of a possible copycat?
Again, acting like leaks, the script, and impressions aren't available for people to discuss is absurd.Joker's a hugely popular villain. Joaquin Phoenix is a great actor. Both trailers for the movie were really good. It looks beautifully shot and the performance has gotten a lot of praise from critics. The movie looks interesting ... and some people prefer to see a movie before pre-judging it.
What's so hard to understand about this?
I didn't realize I'm supposed to form my opinions based on what other people tell me. But please, feel free to do the same.
so you have critics who say movie is bad and more critics who say movie is good. you decide the lesser amount is right?
ok. so it's terrorism not anyway influenced or people saying influenced by the movie? just want some clarity.The talk of credible threats is- again- a lesson in stochastic terrorism and actual research by the FBI.
It's still not a cry for censorship.
that seems susceptible to bias especially the argument maker.again, the idea isn't "more people agree with me", its the idea that some arguments and interpretations are less legitimate than others
Nah, not again. Expecting the average moviegoer to read "leaks" and a script before seeing a movie is absurd. A lot of reviews are laudatory, some aren't but the majority are positive. Like I said, some people prefer to judge a work of art - that they haven't even fucking seen yet - for themselves rather than allow others to interpret it for them.Again, acting like leaks, the script, and impressions aren't available for people to discuss is absurd.
I don't understand what you're asking me.ok. so it's terrorism not anyway influenced or people saying influenced by the movie? just want some clarity.
i am asking if the film will inspire violence.
Possibly.....maybe......we don't know
Who knows?
then why is the credible threats about theatre shootings always posted in a way that the film inspires incels and others like them to do harm?Who knows?
That question belies the point of what stochastic terrorism actually is.
Okay. Plenty of people are still going to see this movie still, and we can at the very least discuss the ideas the film's own marketing is putting infront of us. There are plenty of impressions out there that go from praising the film to thinking it's tonedeaf as shit.The nuance can be lost when none of us have seen the film being discussed.
"appeal to authority only works when I do it"
again, the idea isn't "more people agree with me", its the idea that some arguments and interpretations are less legitimate than others
I have it on good authority AOC was deeply upset that they made another Joker movie and not "Poison Ivy in: The Green New Deal"
Also, hard to not notice as a minority that the first opinions always thrown out the window first are opinions from minorities. Like the tweet thread from the black woman critic I posted here earlier, whose opinions are apparently considered less legitimate than the critics who gave this film an award, so her feeling afraid "doesn't count", despite her also having fucking watched the film"appeal to authority only works when I do it"
again, the idea isn't "more people agree with me", its the idea that some arguments and interpretations are less legitimate than others
so people who firmly belive the movie is awful without seeing it cause their fav reviewe doesn't like it plays zero part in this cycle? all these joker threads are full of individuals saying the movie is bad without seeing it and it will inspire bad people. that's not zero weighted opinion.which is why using "most people who have seen it love it" as an tertiary argument to "you haven't seen it so how can you know" doesn't make sense when there are several reviewers out there who have seen it and are saying the same things a lot of people here are saying.
Its not even about agreeing or disagreeing, thats not even the contention for the most part. Its contention over the audacity to have the opinion in the first place.
so people who firmly belive the movie is awful without seeing it cause their fav reviewe doesn't like it plays zero part in this cycle? all these joker threads are full of individuals saying the movie is bad without seeing it and it will inspire bad people. that's not zero weighted opinion.
we get it. you are a movie buff.You know what, you're right. I should have more faith in the comic book movie made by the guy who directed the Hangover movies
?then why is the credible threats about theatre shootings always posted in a way that the film inspires incels and others like them to do harm?
so people who firmly belive the movie is awful without seeing it cause their fav reviewe doesn't like it plays zero part in this cycle? all these joker threads are full of individuals saying the movie is bad without seeing it and it will inspire bad people. that's not zero weighted opinion.
Also, hard to not notice as a minority that the first opinions always thrown out the window first are opinions from minorities. Like the tweet thread from the black woman critic I posted here earlier, whose opinions are apparently considered less legitimate than the critics who gave this film an award, so her feeling afraid "doesn't count", despite her also having fucking watched the film
I'm pretty sure John Wick was straight up in Fortnite at some point.
EDIT: Yep
It's been in the back of my mind for awhile now.Also, hard to not notice as a minority that the first opinions always thrown out the window first are opinions from minorities.
be honest that it ties into how you perceive the movie and it's impact? that's what the whole argument of "video games cause violence" is about. so you can confirm the discussion about the film isn't all about the tone-deaf themes, then??
Because if the "credible threat" law enforcement is warning about is "Yo, some dude said he is inspired by the Joker and talking about shooting a place up," what else are we supposed to say in regards to that specific threat?????
Bit condescending. The writer who wrote The Hangover part II & III created and wrote the HBO miniseries Chernobyl.You know what, you're right. I should have more faith in the comic book movie made by the guy who directed the Hangover movies
The difference is that the 90s video game panic was predicated on a false belief that there was a direct correlation between time spent playing violent video games and decreasing empathy for human life, and thus they needed to be regulated as a public health issue.
Joker is ultimately a lesson about stochastic terrorism, how individual figures and works can add up to foster an environment of hostility and oppression that makes it easier for assholes to feel emboldened enough to perform direct harm, even though there isn't enough direct interference or correlation for any one individual or work to be directly blamed for specific incidences. This is why people shit on PewDiePie. It's not that he has some magical ability and mind controlled the New Zealand terrorist. It's that his rhetoric only added to an environment that allowed the NZ terrorist just enough leverage to pull the trigger.
Also the government ain't trying to ban Joker either. This film isn't really a victim of anything, and it certainly isn't a free speech issue.
My honest opinion is that the movie probably ain't gon be shit from a sociopolitical perspective.be honest that it ties into how you perceive the movie and it's impact?
The argument about video games causing violence was that there was an actual, scientific psychological causal link between playing games and decreasing empathy (aka brainwashing), not that violent video games merely fostered a negative social environment by directly promoting negative behaviors within their texts that, in a vacuum were fine, but compared to the larger sociopolitical environment they existed in weren't so great (stochastic terrorism/literally Feminist Frequency critique).that's what the whole argument of "video games cause violence" is about.
No, but not because people have secret agendas to snatch an award-winning™ comic book movie away from you. It's because no one can actually talk about this film from a point of view that isn't glowing praise without someone coming in and labeling them an SJW, thereby forcing the conversation to lean into this absurd tangent that Joker is somehow the new battleground for free speech and the first amendment and the sanctity of art, and all that other sanctimonious bullshit fragile nerds lean into when vulnerable groups aren't all that excited about their shiny new toy.so you can confirm the discussion about the film isn't all about the tone-deaf themes, then?
Then we just agree to disagree on the observable fact that there is no huge social and political movement to get Joker banned I guess.I don't really buy that this is the issue at hand here (or even the distinction is meaningful) when there is a fever pitch around specifically this movie and the worry going around is that there will be a shooting.
16 pages.
Ain't got time for that.
Did resetera respond in a mature mentally balanced way?
Very diplomatic of you. :)
I think he's right to be frustrated, and far versions of both sides should be reprimanded for negative behaviour, some of the attacks this movie has received is a bit over the top.
The sentiment I have been getting is this exercise in gaslighting where all the detractors are portrayed as taking crazy pills for having certain opinions about a movie prior to seeing it.
16 pages.
Ain't got time for that.
Did resetera respond in a mature mentally balanced way?
you forgot the moderate middle, which apparently almost doesn't exist.Okay, so going off of this thread, I think I understand how American political positions are classified now.
Far right = Watches superhero movies and complains about them
Far left = Doesn't watch superhero movies and complains about them
Enlightened centrist = Watches superhero movies and gives them all five stars