Faddy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,537
Highly doubt this even gets to court and doubt even more that WBD would win shit.

What has WB got to lose by going to court?

They could get money from the NBA in a settlement but does money even matter to these mega corps. Not at the level the NBA could compensate. So the only hope is a court enforces the their rights and grants them the contract.

If they weren't prepared to go all the way, why even fight at all?
 

septentrion2

Member
Apr 11, 2023
2,764
if NBA.tv gets the Amazon games, I'll sign up for NBA.tv again. If not, i guess I'll go back to checking box scores in the newspaper like a caveman.
fuck Amazon.
 

NinjaScooter

Member
Oct 25, 2017
56,746
What has WB got to lose by going to court?

They could get money from the NBA in a settlement but does money even matter to these mega corps. Not at the level the NBA could compensate. So the only hope is a court enforces the their rights and grants them the contract.

If they weren't prepared to go all the way, why even fight at all?

What they have to lose is A) communications being submitted as discovery and B) suing a broadcast partner when they are still going to be in the sports rights game moving forward

This all hinges on WBD's intent here which is where we seem to disagree. I think they are fighting to save face and to try and get some kind of settlement out of the NBA (which would help with that debt im sure). I do not think they actually want the NBA back, at least not at the cost necessary for them as a broadcast partner.
 

ForBeers

Member
Oct 27, 2017
552
I've heard reported on Matthew Belloni's podcast that this streaming deal was pretty much written with Amazon in mind. WBD does not have the money or the streaming reach to make a compelling argument to match it. The NBA can argue that Max does not have the reach that Prime does, and I think Amazon is willing to pay for 3 years up in up front money.

Here's a summary. Be warned that Bill Simmons is the source, but I could see him having sources.
 

NinjaScooter

Member
Oct 25, 2017
56,746
I've heard reported on Matthew Belloni's podcast that this streaming deal was pretty much written with Amazon in mind. WBD does not have the money or the streaming reach to make a compelling argument to match it. The NBA can argue that Max does not have the reach that Prime does, and I think Amazon is willing to pay for 3 years up in up front money.

Here's a summary. Be warned that Bill Simmons is the source, but I could see him having sources.

yeah I have a hard time believing Turner's "right to match" is as overarching as they seem to want to make it seem to be. I have to believe the NBA and their lawyers probably put specific language on certain terms that need to be "matched" to trigger that right that WBD simply cannot match. Keep in mind they also already had their exclusive negotiating period and could not come to an agreement with the league.
 

Faddy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,537
What they have to lose is A) communications being submitted as discovery and B) suing a broadcast partner when they are still going to be in the sports rights game moving forward

This all hinges on WBD's intent here which is where we seem to disagree. I think they are fighting to save face and to try and get some kind of settlement out of the NBA (which would help with that debt im sure). I do not think they actually want the NBA back, at least not at the cost necessary for them as a broadcast partner.

WBD has $40B in debt. The NBA does not have enough money to even make a dent in that number. Compensation is irrelevant for them imo.

If you don't think that what is the level of compensation? The entire value of the Amazon contract? Half the value of the contract? Is the NBA prepared to payout that kind of money? Is that career ending for Silver, if he butchered a deal so badly that moey is coming out of the owners' pocket and going to WBD?

I personally feel the NBA would not pay out any sizable amount of compensation because the optics would be terrible for them. So between paying out substantial compensation, if the NBA would lost in court they would eat humble pie and go back to TNT. Honestly if the NBA loses in court I think it is the end for Silver.
 

NinjaScooter

Member
Oct 25, 2017
56,746
WBD has $40B in debt. The NBA does not have enough money to even make a dent in that number. Compensation is irrelevant for them imo.

If you don't think that what is the level of compensation? The entire value of the Amazon contract? Half the value of the contract? Is the NBA prepared to payout that kind of money? Is that career ending for Silver, if he butchered a deal so badly that moey is coming out of the owners' pocket and going to WBD?

I personally feel the NBA would not pay out any sizable amount of compensation because the optics would be terrible for them. So between paying out substantial compensation, if the NBA would lost in court they would eat humble pie and go back to TNT. Honestly if the NBA loses in court I think it is the end for Silver.

something is better than nothing, especially if it allows them to try and save face and claim they "fought" to save the NBA and Inside the NBA. This is all an optics play imo. Neither side wants this to go to court and this is all a game of chicken.

The idea that this is going to go to court and a judge is going to make the NBA broadcast their games on Turner and kill their Amazon deal is something even Zaslav doesn't believe will happen.
 

Faddy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,537
something is better than nothing, especially if it allows them to try and save face and claim they "fought" to save the NBA and Inside the NBA. This is all an optics play imo. Neither side wants this to go to court and this is all a game of chicken.

The idea that this is going to go to court and a judge is going to make the NBA broadcast their games on Turner and kill their Amazon deal is something even Zaslav doesn't believe will happen.

This is business and money is always an adequate remedy. The judge won't make the NBA go back to TNT. But it depends what the level of damages are. If they lost it would be up to the NBA to decide if they could afford the damages vs staying with TNT and fulfilling the terms of the deal.

I see much more danger in this situation for Adam Silver than I do for David Zaslav.
 

NinjaScooter

Member
Oct 25, 2017
56,746
This is business and money is always an adequate remedy. The judge won't make the NBA go back to TNT. But it depends what the level of damages are. If they lost it would be up to the NBA to decide if they could afford the damages vs staying with TNT and fulfilling the terms of the deal.

I see much more danger in this situation for Adam Silver than I do for David Zaslav.

I guess thats where we differ and thats what changes our read of the situations. I would be really shocked if the NBA, their legal teams, and Amazon didn't structure these deals in a way that accounted for this "right to match" that gave Turner a single leg to stand on, and I don't think Zaslav and WBD are operating in good faith about actually wanting to retain the rights to the NBA. I mean sure, if they could pay nearly half of what was initially suggested for the NBC package and still get to say they air NBA games, they'd love it, but thats not a deal that was ever on the table for them.
 

smurfx

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,037
i get prime for free so i rather amazon get the rights. i don't have cable and don't plan on getting cable either.
 

Aiqops

Member
Aug 3, 2021
16,573
Is it only gonna be on amazon in the us? Would love to watch it too, but I ain't paying 30€+ a month for fucking DAZN here.
 

Tbm24

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,164
I just want to know if this is going to made NBATV worse. I need them to sort all this shit fully and sign the contracts.
 

Deleted member 109591

Feb 21, 2022
484
It sounded like WBD matched the monetary value but NBA wanted to adjust or do away with stuff like network blackouts and WBD's offer didn't do that.
 

Duxxy3

Member
Oct 27, 2017
22,957
USA
Zaslav might be the worst CEO in modern times. I don't have any idea what he's trying to do. If a CEO was trying to intentionally tank his company, they couldn't possibly do a worse job than Zaslav.
 

1-D_FE

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,674
Interesting. Guess I'm confused as to what "match" means then. If the option was to match, and they said yes, seems you mostly cross out some names (cross out Amazon and insert new company; cross out prime video insert Max; etc.).

David Samson, who I can't stand (but is good when it comes to this), said it was written in such a poison pill way that it would have been virtually impossible for WB to match it.


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLGrha7bUx8
 

NinjaScooter

Member
Oct 25, 2017
56,746
yeah it sounds like Amazon's deal potentially calls for a ton of money paid up front (which WBD doesn't have) as well as is contingent on Amazon's global subscriber and advertiser reach, which is huge for the NBA. If WBD wants to just match on the basis of "$1.8 billion a year" and change every other term I think they are probably gonna have a hard time arguing that.
 

EzekelRAGE

Member
Nov 3, 2017
17,069
yeah it sounds like Amazon's deal potentially calls for a ton of money paid up front (which WBD doesn't have) as well as is contingent on Amazon's global subscriber and advertiser reach, which is huge for the NBA. If WBD wants to just match on the basis of "$1.8 billion a year" and change every other term I think they are probably gonna have a hard time arguing that.
The money upfront wasnt the problem. They secured creditors or w/e to cover the 6B(3 years upfront Amazon is paying)

View: https://x.com/SBJ/status/1815475748984984060

So maybe it was the subscriber/advertiser reach.
 

Jade1962

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,357

Obviously getting the biggest deal was first priority but it's clear these deals are better for the average fan as there will be way more games on broadcast television and Amazon will be offering the games worldwide.

This will be great for people like my granny and uncle who have no internet or cable and only really had access to locally broadcast games and even then had to listen on the radio a lot of times.
 

PhaZe 5

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,744
Each Incumbent shall have the right, subject to the terms of this
Paragraph (applied mutatis mutandis as necessary), to Match a Third
Party Offer that provides for the exercise of rights to distribute NBA
regular season and/or Playoff games ('Game Rights') via any form of
combined audio and video distribution (e.g., Internet distribution). In
the event that an Incumbent Matches a Third Party Offer that
provides for the exercise of Game Rights via any specific form of
combined audio and video distribution, such Incumbent shall have the
right and obligation to exercise such Game Rights only via the
specified form of combined audio and video distribution (e.g., if the
specified form of combined audio and video distribution is Internet
distribution, a Matching Incumbent may not exercise such Game
Rights via television distribution) through a distributor reasonably
acceptable to the NBA. MRE § C.4.

So I may be reading this wrong, but the NBA is arguing that the match doesn't count because WB wants to air the games through both Cable and Streaming, while Amazon only wants to air through streaming.

And WB continues with some more arguments here:

61. Section C.4, however, makes clear that TBS has the right to "Match a
Third Party Offer that provides for the exercise of [NBA game rights] via any form
of combined audio and video distribution."
62. The Amazon Offer also did not provide for a "specific form of combined
audio and video distribution" simply because Amazon proposed to put the games on
Prime Video and the NBA apparently sought to limit Amazon's distribution to only
streaming over the Internet. TNT, Max, and Prime Video do not use different forms
of combined audio and video distribution. TNT, Max, and Prime Video are
distributed to a television because consumers can watch each of them on a
television. Indeed, 70% of viewing on Prime Video occurs on a television.

I don't really buy WB's argument of "you can stream through a tv" or whatever, but at the same time, I'm not sure how to parse the "dual offerings" part of it. TNT will air games through cable, and those very same games will air through a streaming service, whereas with Prime it would only go through the streaming service. I could see an argument to be made that a cable package, a cable and streaming package, and just a streaming package would be considered different things and that by not excluding television, WB failed to match, as technically the NBA could double dip and sell the same content the NBA got as a cable only package (though language in the contract almost certainly would prevent that from happening).

It's a bit slimy, and is certainly a technicality, but I think a judge who is able to parse the difference in technologies would side with the NBA. And perhaps they would give WB the opportunity to match should they exclude the games from being aired through cable and only through Max (which they wouldn't go for).

That's my read anyway on initial look through the text.
 

Deleted member 174609

Jul 1, 2024
823
Not shocked at all, WBD probably had no true intent to want to match but thought they could get some cash out of a settlement here.
 

RBH

Official ERA expert on Third Party Football
Member
Nov 2, 2017
34,656
www.espn.com

NBA files motion to dismiss lawsuit from WBD

The NBA has asked the New York Supreme Court to dismiss a lawsuit by Warner Bros. Discovery, which alleged that the league breached its contract by rejecting WBD's matching offer for a new media rights deal and instead signing with Amazon.
 

luminosity

"This guy are sick"
Banned
Oct 30, 2017
1,308
What gives WBD the rights to jack shit?

You made an offer and the owner said no.

Do I get to sue a homeowner because my loan offer was lower during a negotiation?
 

Auros01

Avenger
Nov 17, 2017
5,776
Do I get to sue a homeowner because my loan offer was lower during a negotiation?
I think WBD's issue is that they believe they are at least matching Amazon's offer and still being passed over.

Not saying I agree or if that's a legitimate complaint but I think that's the angle their playing.
 

spyder_ur

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,551
What gives WBD the rights to jack shit?

You made an offer and the owner said no.

Do I get to sue a homeowner because my loan offer was lower during a negotiation?

There's some language a few posts above you. It's in the contract between the NBA and TNT/WB that is expiring this year. Seems like the hang up is WBs ability/willingness to fully satisfy streaming, which was predicted.
 
Oct 27, 2017
5,091
I said from the beginning, the NBA wanted out from TNT. Even if Zaslav tried to match the NBC package, the NBA wanted them to pay more than Comcast because they don't have an OTA channel.
 

beat

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,382
Does WBD actually want the NBA back or is this purely a play for some go-away money? If the latter, how pathetic is that?
 

Gigglepoo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,961
Does WBD actually want the NBA back or is this purely a play for some go-away money? If the latter, how pathetic is that?

If they wanted the NBA back, they would have paid for it. They have right of first refusal when the new contract came up. It would be fantastic if the courts ruled in Warner's favor, awarded them the NBA, and made them pay whatever Amazon is on the hook for.
 
Oct 29, 2017
2,165
Anything that furthers Zazlav's potential ouster is okay with me, especially if it gets Shaq off the air. Will miss EJ though, he was the glue that held that crew together.
 

EzekelRAGE

Member
Nov 3, 2017
17,069
I'd be shocked if there wasn't language in the contract with WB for things like this. What the hell does showing NFL games really have to do with anything?
Officially - Probably something like NFL is the hottest product in the US/TV. NBA being promoed during football games can help with exposure.
Unofficially - Block WBD from matching since they dont have nfl games.