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THR: ‘AVENGERS 5’ will no longer be titled ‘THE KANG DYNASTY’ as Marvel has been making moves to minimize Kang after Quantumania underperformed
- Thread starter IDontBeatGames
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This "people have never heard of X character before" thing people bring up has always been so weird. You think the general public ever heard the name of Thanos before Marvel brought him to the big screen?
Loki's season 2 ending covers that already. They could just never mention Kang again.
And they should but with Pedro Pascal's age any age-appropriate Romani actor for Doom will probably be an unknown. The only Romani actors I can think of are in their 30s.
Fair chance Ultron appears in Secret Wars. He's got his own country in Battleworld.
Kang being sidelined and Avengers 5 being renamed isn't news. Whatever.
What interests me is them trying to spin the notion that they're quietly changing their ways despite this article revealing they're still falling into the same traps as always. You're telling me Fantastic Four and Thunderbolts (which just got moved up, mind you) still don't have finished scripts? I'm supposed to be glad that the writer of Black Widow is tackling F4? And while talent from The Bear sounds promising, keep in mind, Thunderbolts was already written by the person who wrote Beef, another critically acclaimed show. So I'm super skeptical, it seems like Marvel Studios meddling with a vision and trying to salvage it.
I'm glad they're at least trying to get these projects right in the script stage instead of in post, but idk. This doesn't look like "slowing down" to me. It still looks like these movies are barreling towards their release dates however they will.
What interests me is them trying to spin the notion that they're quietly changing their ways despite this article revealing they're still falling into the same traps as always. You're telling me Fantastic Four and Thunderbolts (which just got moved up, mind you) still don't have finished scripts? I'm supposed to be glad that the writer of Black Widow is tackling F4? And while talent from The Bear sounds promising, keep in mind, Thunderbolts was already written by the person who wrote Beef, another critically acclaimed show. So I'm super skeptical, it seems like Marvel Studios meddling with a vision and trying to salvage it.
I'm glad they're at least trying to get these projects right in the script stage instead of in post, but idk. This doesn't look like "slowing down" to me. It still looks like these movies are barreling towards their release dates however they will.
I think the big mistake wasn't making him get defeated by Ant-Man, it's just doing it in an Ant-Man movie instead of another Avengers movie. Not every Avengers movie needs to escalate from the next one. It was kind of understood, in Age of Ultron, that it was just a step on the way to Infinity War. They could've just done another Avengers movie like that. They don't just have to be The Big Ones. A Kang comes to Earth, drawn by them unlocking time travel shit, and he tries to conquer their world. The newer generation of heroes unites, so we care about them more as a team and we get to see the characters again, and that Kang is defeated. Still sets up a big bad Mega Kang Battle for Avengers 5 or 6, but has the benefit of giving us another Avengers movie, too. A transitional Avengers movie to end Phase 4 instead of...there not being any ending.
Ultron is A.I./data. He can still have a million backups stored over the globe.
People who want Doom this abruptly is setting the character up to fail. Doom really needs a dedicated phase to be satisfying. You don't just randomly insert him as the bad guy in Avengers 6 only for him to inevitably defeated and "one n doned".
It's unfortunate that Quantumania's had such a chilling effect on Kang as a character because it conceptually had such a comic-style pitch. "The next villain to rival Thanos is here! And the only one that can stop him is...Ant-Man?! " What should be a comically-unbalanced David-and-Goliath scenario where Ant-Man comes off proving a tiny man with ants can defeat even someone like Kang has instead been metagame'd on how bad of an L it is for Kang. "LOL shitty loss feat, go home jobber".
And like I'm not even talking about the quality of Quantumania, because it's feeling like even a good version of Quantumania would still have this problem of accidentally kneecapping its next main bad guy. Just a very unfortunate unforced error, and if they really are planning on pivoting Secret Wars to Doom they have to really go double-time on it.
And like I'm not even talking about the quality of Quantumania, because it's feeling like even a good version of Quantumania would still have this problem of accidentally kneecapping its next main bad guy. Just a very unfortunate unforced error, and if they really are planning on pivoting Secret Wars to Doom they have to really go double-time on it.
I mean before that, it had people from the Beef TV show working on it(and they seem to still be attached), so it was already stacked creatives-wise.Wait, the Showrunner for The Bear is working on the script for Thunderbolts?
It seemed like an arrogant gamble that somehow people would finally turn out for Antman if you threw Kang in there. It didn't really work on a large enough scale, and it also didn't do anything to establish him as a real force to contend with if Antman of all people can win in the end. In some ways, it diminished the importance and threat of Kang rather than enhance it.
Basing any decision off a ant man movie is ridiculous lol.
But regardless, part of the problem imo with Kang is that each version is a "different person" so to speak, so there really isn't much excitement between films when each time he shows up he's a different version than the viewer last saw (and the last version was beat). "OH yeah another version of the guy they already beat in movies X Y and Z three different times"
But regardless, part of the problem imo with Kang is that each version is a "different person" so to speak, so there really isn't much excitement between films when each time he shows up he's a different version than the viewer last saw (and the last version was beat). "OH yeah another version of the guy they already beat in movies X Y and Z three different times"
Marvel won't learn, unless Disney is going to force it on them like they did with Star Wars and just start cancelling projects. I'm reminded of that hilarious Marvel leak on Reddit where the leaker was like "Yeah, Marvel is going slow down production to focus more on quality" and then came with a list of 24 projects in development.
Now, it's very likely that that leaker was full of bullshit, but I don't think the number of projects was too far off.
It'll probably still be (a) Kang in Avengers 5 but they'll wrap it up there and maybe even add a second villain for the film. They said they were minimizing him not scrapping.
Like Ed Norton and Terrence Howard? The only reticence is a perceived one from fans.
Like Ed Norton and Terrence Howard? The only reticence is a perceived one from fans.
Pity, Kang was basically the bright spot on Quantumania... but then the actor had to be a POS and ruin it all further...
Obviously Doom would have been a brilliant choice for Secret Wars but a dude like that needs time to build up... I really do wonder just where they go next.
Obviously Doom would have been a brilliant choice for Secret Wars but a dude like that needs time to build up... I really do wonder just where they go next.
At this point we can guess the reason why: Feige wants to give the pre-MCU X-Men movies one last hurrah leading up to Secret Wars, and their own take on the X-Men proper is slated for the next saga instead. It's not them being slow, it's simply how they've planned things.
if you haven't watched it, season 1 of What If (animated) deals a lot with Ultron and its really, really great
I think genre shifting Ant-Man from a classic comedy to an action adventure and then introducing the big bad to job to him is just plain bad.
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We don't even know considering:
- Captain America hasn't been on the big screen or had a major appearance since Falcon and the Winter Soldier (March 2021), I assume his movie will end with him being ready to setup the Avengers again
- Doctor Strange got pulled into another dimension at the end of Doctor Strange: Multiverse of Madness, so it's safe to assume he won't be back on earth until Doctor Strange 3 whenever that is
- Hulk was at She-Hulks backyard party at end of She-Hulk, which he introduced his son Skaar, so who knows what the hell he's up to right now
- Ant-Man was last seen having an existential crisis when walking in his neighborhood at the end of Quantumania
- Spider-Man is all alone
- Wong is teaching a Magical School Academy that also has America Chavez in it, who's receiving training after her time with Doctor Strange
As for some of the other major MCU characters:
- Ms Marvel (Kamala) is setting up the Young Avengers, starting with Kate Bishop
- Daredevil is gonna be dealing with NYC stuff for awhile
- We have no idea what's up with Shang-Chi
- Moon Knight is just kinda there doing whatever now that his third personality, Jake Lockley, has been revealed but we have no idea what role he'll play in the MCU as of now
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I like that they brought back Ultron for a Marvel Cruise video.
IIRC he was drafted by Wong and Captain Marvel for... something cosmic at the end of his movie. Though of course, the next times we saw Wong and Carol Shang-Chi wasn't mentioned at all, so who knows if that ever goes somewhere.
Oh, and let's not forget:
- Monica Rambeau is in a different reality altogether
- Carol fucked off to space again doing whatever she does there (probably terrorism or something).
So those two probably won't be in any Avengers team anytime soon. Well, Carol could, but I bet they're going to play the "she's too strong to be in the entire movie"-card again.
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Lmao exactly my point! It makes even less sense given that Wong is now taking care of apprentices in that magical school academy that also has America Chavez in it
Right?? It's crazy, they keep saying they're slowing down and the only time they have is when the strikes forced them to.
I was shocked when set pictures of Wonder Man started to come out, like, they didn't cancel that??
Meanwhile the whole superhero film industry craters. It's a bad plan.
If I'm being blunt most of the big bad villains that get introduced in Marvel and DC are rarely compelling characters. They're just the latest threat to get rolled out that somehow no one knew or cared about until that particular arc. They're powerful and intimidating and that's about it. For every Dr Doom there are many more Onslaughts and Knulls.
It's also possible he can't recast immediately. There were rumors out Disney had to wait for five years and any appearance of mutant characters that had already been cast had to show up as the Fox actors. Not sure if that was ever confirmed or not but it could be a factor
I feel like the general audience isn't feeling the multiverse storyline in general.
As a light Marvel Comics fan Kang has never been on my radar, probably because the storylines I've retroactively looked at have been informed by outside media. But that does say something - despite being about as old a character as Iron Man, Kang was never popular enough to be a big presence in the cartoons or the big bad in a video game.
Just do Doctor Doom. I don't know if they were building towards Doom taking out Kang and establishing himself as the main threat, but just build up Doom as soon as possible. Even Ant-Man Quantamania seemed like a dry run for a Fantastic Four movie, even down to Kang & Janet Van Dyne having a Doctor Doom and Sue Storm dynamic. Just do the actual thing.
Just do Doctor Doom. I don't know if they were building towards Doom taking out Kang and establishing himself as the main threat, but just build up Doom as soon as possible. Even Ant-Man Quantamania seemed like a dry run for a Fantastic Four movie, even down to Kang & Janet Van Dyne having a Doctor Doom and Sue Storm dynamic. Just do the actual thing.
I feel like people clowning Kang don't really know the character. His whole thing is that he loses and gets replaced by a better Kang that curbstomps the heroes until they pull a win out of their ass and then eventually another comes along and it happens again.
Kang's not exactly a favorite of mine, but FWIW I thought the two Kangs we saw the most of, He Who Remains and Kang in Quantumania, were pretty well done for Kang, but the council of Kangs just looks hokey on the big screen and they didn't really sell how big of a threat they really are in a meaningful way.
Kang's not exactly a favorite of mine, but FWIW I thought the two Kangs we saw the most of, He Who Remains and Kang in Quantumania, were pretty well done for Kang, but the council of Kangs just looks hokey on the big screen and they didn't really sell how big of a threat they really are in a meaningful way.
Marvel's highest grossing films lately have been about the Multiverse and Deadpool 3's high trailer views follow that trend.
The whole "If a villain loses once he's an unthreatening jobber" intenert narrative sucks and ignores tons of villains who get clowned and then come back stronger....Across The Spiderverse was even about it!
In this case, I understand the pivot but I think it has much more to do with the guilty verdict and that even more accusations are coming forward rather than the character not being reworkable.
I don't think Deadpool's popularity has anything to do with multiverse.
Current Status of Every MCU Character
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Fuck it, for those curious, here's the current status of every major MCU character.
(edit): Shoutout to everyone giving me info on Captain Marvel & Nick Fury!
Here's the current status of the old Avengers:
- Captain America hasn't been on the big screen or had a major appearance since Falcon and the Winter Soldier (March 2021), I assume his movie will end with him being ready to setup the Avengers again
- Doctor Strange got pulled into another dimension at the end of Doctor Strange: Multiverse of Madness, so it's safe to assume he won't be back on earth until Doctor Strange 3 whenever that is
- Scarlet Witch is MIA, White Vision is still somewhere in the MCU lol
- Hulk was at She-Hulks backyard party at end of She-Hulk, which he introduced his son Skaar, so who knows what the hell he's up to right now though Mark Ruffalo might've spoiled an upcoming Hulk appearance
- Ant-Man was last seen having an existential crisis when walking in his neighborhood at the end of Quantumania
- Spider-Man is all alone
- Wong is teaching a Magical School Academy that also has America Chavez in it, who's receiving training after her time with Doctor Strange
- Thor has a kid, Love, so we don't know what Thor and Love are doing
- The (old) Guardians of the Galaxy have been disbanded for the New Guardians of the Galaxy team, though it'll likely be a very long time before we see them again
- Wakanda has laid T'Challa to rest, Shuri is now the Black Panther, young T'Challa has been revealed and we don't know what's going with Namor and his Kingdom at this moment. Though, we're getting a Wakanda Animated Series this year
- Captain Marvel is now laying low for awhile after the events of The Marvels, Nick Fury is still seemingly doing Earth things as shown by him being in The Marvels
- Hawkeye (Clint Barton) is around his family, Jeremy Renner has said he'd be down to whatever Marvel needs him to do. So, Hawkeye's basically waiting for a call from the Avengers or whoever and he'll be there.
As for some of the other major MCU characters:
- We have no idea what's up with Shang-Chi
- Ms Marvel (Kamala) is setting up the Young Avengers, starting with Kate Bishop
- The Eternals went their separate ways after the movie, we don't know what they're doing
- Moon Knight is just kinda there doing whatever now that his third personality, Jake Lockley, has been revealed but we have no idea as to what role he'll play in the MCU as of now
- Daredevil is gonna be dealing with NYC stuff for awhile
(edit): Shoutout to everyone giving me info on Captain Marvel & Nick Fury!
Here's the current status of the old Avengers:
- Captain America hasn't been on the big screen or had a major appearance since Falcon and the Winter Soldier (March 2021), I assume his movie will end with him being ready to setup the Avengers again
- Doctor Strange got pulled into another dimension at the end of Doctor Strange: Multiverse of Madness, so it's safe to assume he won't be back on earth until Doctor Strange 3 whenever that is
- Scarlet Witch is MIA, White Vision is still somewhere in the MCU lol
- Hulk was at She-Hulks backyard party at end of She-Hulk, which he introduced his son Skaar, so who knows what the hell he's up to right now though Mark Ruffalo might've spoiled an upcoming Hulk appearance
- Ant-Man was last seen having an existential crisis when walking in his neighborhood at the end of Quantumania
- Spider-Man is all alone
- Wong is teaching a Magical School Academy that also has America Chavez in it, who's receiving training after her time with Doctor Strange
- Thor has a kid, Love, so we don't know what Thor and Love are doing
- The (old) Guardians of the Galaxy have been disbanded for the New Guardians of the Galaxy team, though it'll likely be a very long time before we see them again
- Wakanda has laid T'Challa to rest, Shuri is now the Black Panther, young T'Challa has been revealed and we don't know what's going with Namor and his Kingdom at this moment. Though, we're getting a Wakanda Animated Series this year
- Captain Marvel is now laying low for awhile after the events of The Marvels, Nick Fury is still seemingly doing Earth things as shown by him being in The Marvels
- Hawkeye (Clint Barton) is around his family, Jeremy Renner has said he'd be down to whatever Marvel needs him to do. So, Hawkeye's basically waiting for a call from the Avengers or whoever and he'll be there.
As for some of the other major MCU characters:
- We have no idea what's up with Shang-Chi
- Ms Marvel (Kamala) is setting up the Young Avengers, starting with Kate Bishop
- The Eternals went their separate ways after the movie, we don't know what they're doing
- Moon Knight is just kinda there doing whatever now that his third personality, Jake Lockley, has been revealed but we have no idea as to what role he'll play in the MCU as of now
- Daredevil is gonna be dealing with NYC stuff for awhile
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MCU's success is dependent on giving a lot of relatively unknown teams the opportunity to create, and elevating the ones that succeed. The Russos, Gunn, and Coogler were not household names at the time, proved themselves, and got to make more stutff. Meanwhile they were dependent on Favreau and Whedon for a bit until they could pass the baton over to other talent.
So unfortunately, they have to do the same thing again during this new era after having lost a lot of talent. They've had some people who have shown promise (The people who worked on Loki, Destin Daniel Crettton (Shang Chi), Matt Shakman (Wandavision)), and even brought back in somewhat proven talent onboard like Sam Raimi, but there's little they can do but to continue the kind of show and prove process they have at the moment. They can't moneyhat super proven guys like Chris Nolan.
Captain Marvel is on Earth having dinner with Kamala's Family laying low for a while
How dare you forget Werewolf By Night, Elsa and Man-Thing!
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Carol was last seen reigniting the Kree sun in the Hala system, she is presumably available.
Fury was in The Marvels and is also still around and presumably available.
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