The way we talk about China

[Deleted member 41520]

Great OP and thread, thanks everyone for sharing. Such stark times, but I'm confident we'll come out stronger/better.

I've told multiple white people IRL that the spike in intolerance and racial aggression is real and I get laughed off. Privilege is a hell of a drug.

My mother stopped telling other people we were Chinese sometime in my teens. I didn't think much of it at the time, but I've come to realize that it did have a lasting effect on me. Slowly I started becoming less comfortable with my ethnicity. Slowly I started feeling ashamed. Slowly I started to resent lunar new year parades and lion dances and dim sum, because they reminded me of who I was. Chinese. And being Chinese was a bad thing.

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IIRC there are much higher rates of schizophrenia among people who are minorities where they live. Reading stuff like this, it makes perfect sense. Another layer in which racially "fitting in" is a massive privilege.

 

[Deleted member 203]

What's so absurd to me is that everyone is SO EAGER to jump down the throat of the Chinese government, or like any discussion about China has to contain a mention of how awful their government is. But like... if you're American, you have absolutely no leg to stand on. Imagine, for a second, that this forum wasn't a majority US users. Imagine that every time someone brought up anything USA-related, every other post would be something like "yeah but what about their government". Or that every American poster was basically forced to defend the fact that they're American but don't support the government. It's absurd. And most people here frankly don't know shit about China (I know I don't, which is why I generally don't talk about it). The news we get about China is filtered through many subjective lenses, and it's usually negative. It's a nation of 1.3 billion people. You cannot just reduced the whole country to "but their government is bad". So is the US government, and no, that's not just a Trump thing. Trump used the systems that were already in place. He's a symptom, not the disease.

That's not to say bad things that happen in China shouldn't be discussed, but to keep some perspective and actively consider what biases you may have.

If the citizens of China aren't outwardly protesting some of the decisions and directions of the CCP, that makes it much harder for people to separate the two. Massive surveillance? Most of the citizens seem ok with it. Dystopian "social credit" system? They seem ok with that one too. Blocking search engines and forcing filtered results? They don't seem to mind that either. Suppressing information about a deadly pandemic? See where I'm going?

Unless there are mass protests regarding some of the things the CCP does, people will just lump them in together (which is what the CCP wants, apparently). It's not right, but that same thing happens all over the world. People rarely separate any citizens from their government. No, it's not right, but that's how the world currently works, unfortunately.

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This post is a great example. You could say the exact same thing about every US citizen who isn't protesting ICE or whatever. This conflation of 1.3 billion people with the regime is absurd.

 

[Neo C.]

I'm not really ashamed of my Chinese heritage, but in the last few years most of my conflicts stem from the defensive nationalistic thinking of the elder generation. People can say "the CCP doesn't represent the Chinese people", but when I talk about politics, many Chinese people repeat the CCP talking points, at least to some degree. The CCP has successfully pushed the narrative, that they represent China and therefore the Chinese people.

 

[SilentPanda]

Taiwanese, went to US for university, went back to China.
Sometime still travel to US, but also travel to to East Asia country where relative are.
Have relatives in China(Grandpa, 1 aunt and 1 uncle) Japan(aunt and counsin) Hong Kong(Uncle and Aunt)
I consider myself Taiwanese first and formost, not a fan of CCP, KMT and the US foreign policy(Bush, Obama, etc)

Asia is not one, same with Chinese is not one Chinese, China is a big country with different culture in each region, like how US like to say Florida-man is not represnetative of California person that is pro human right.

 

[texhnolyze]

Amazing post, thank you.

Its hard to discuss China here because there's so much doublethink. Americans love to wax poetic about how much freedom and economic prosperity they have even as they overlook that their import economy is paired with China's export economy and that the consumerist-heavy lifestyle they enjoy is based on China (and now the global south) being an endless supply of cheap labor and expertise.

The CCP would not be where it is today if the US was not its biggest trading partner in the 20th century. The US would not be where it is today if China wasn't satisfying its monstrous demand for commodities and labor. So its easy to go "why don't the citizens protest more?" but not realize that they're not protesting 24/7 (HK excepting) for the same reason you're not overthrowing Trump right this second; life is too good to pass up, and the risk is not worth the reward.

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Yup. The "Why don't Chinese people protest more" narrative is silly when you realize that the US hasn't changed at all with more regions (especially in the Middle East) being terrorized and collonized over the decades, killing hundreds of thousands of innocent people for the sake of "International safety". And don't let me start with the rampant racism in the country, how pathetic the health insurance is, as well as how people seem to be okay with the guns regulation over there.

Sometimes, people need to look at the mirror.

 

[R0b1n]

Also probably a good time to bring up a post I made some months ago shedding light on why we don't see more unrest (aside from the fact that, you know, it's an autocratic oppressive regime, so of course unrest is gonna be hard). It's a generalization, and has been pointed out, there are many Chinese activists and dissidents, but this is a post about why China's people as a whole aren't throwing a bloody revolution.

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Thank you for this. Democracy is outright seen as a liability for many people in China, they are aware that democracies exist but they do not think it is an efficient or effective system. The media there also frequently points to failures in democratic countries or attempts to introduce "democracy" by western powers, further reinforcing the view. The concept of freedom is a lofty ideal, but practically, the short-term benefits are difficult to see for many.

 

[Chairmanchuck (另一个我)]

Great thread.

I would argue you see the same points from the OP in this forum though. There was the "Chinese love to eat bats." "Chinese are brainwashed." In threads like "Tourist destroys...." you have/had posts like "lol, first thought it was a chinese tourist."
You have people being attacked and called CCP shills. I think Antiwhippy was called that dozens of times here even if he just tries to explain stuff from a different viewpoint. I am not even ethnically chinese, but german who worked there for around 4-5 years and just trying to explain stuff that actually demonstrations exist makes you a CCP shill apparently.

The Joe Biden ad thread that literally used dogwhistles on this forum was met with lots of "Huh? I do not see whats racist about it."

Due to Covid my wife was already objected to lots of shit. In a drug store, they asked us whether we are going to sell 11€ handsanitizers, an energy drink and bathing lotions to China. In a supermarket people told my parents in law, who are currently stranded here, to go back to their country. You see the "bat memes" everywhere on the web.

 

[Monsterqken]

Question: Afro-american, chinese american, arab american does anyone identify as "european american"? Or is there another word? Would you go with irish, italian american and so on? Does some group just go with american?

I mean, I kind of get wanting to differentiate from native americans but wouldn't just immigrated american or colonial american suffice? I guess there's the enslaved americans as well consisting almost exclusively of africans and a miniscule amount of european minorities/other minorities.

On the op:
When it comes to China the world is building up to a war that might see billions of dead. In history you have examples like Rome clashing with Carthage until every single building gets torn down, an actual mountain removed by hand combined with genocide and enslavement. They erased a whole country as well as 800 years of history.

The de-humanization of the chinese and propaganda war is a scary build up

It's hard to tell which side is going to win and even what sides there are but with the rise of nazi-esque powers like the american republicans, Putin's Russia, CCP China, the right wing forces of europe etc.
It might even come down to civilians fighting for democracy vs dictators. No telling what the reps will do to maintain power in the States.

Chinese culture is complicated since so much has been under attack or erased by the CCP. It has already been through a purge that is almost carthage level. In a sense a Chinese cultural identity could almost be stateless if your culture goes against CCP.

In Sweden I can certainly tell that the mob is building up its xenophobic capital in regards to China and mixing up asians as a whole with the CCP.
It's sad but the easily swayed seems to jump on the hate train from the get go as long as they can project their problems on an enemy.

On the personal story of the OP I can just say that it's really sad. I love chinese culture and right now it's the dominant one in my family. Whatever we go through the coming 50-100 years I just hope the art and culture of the world comes out strong on the other side.

 

[Divvy]

What a great post, thank you for writing it out in ways I never seem able too.

The way things have shaken out over the last year in regards to sinophobia has really made me bitter about a lot of things.

 

[Windrunner]

Thank you wandering , you've given me much to think about.

 

[Hellshy]

Yeah, critics really need to stop saying China and say the CCP instead when that is what they mean. A country and its people are not solely the mistakes of one of it's parties. This should be readily apparent to any American.

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This is probably true but I think in order for it to work and stick we should really stop doing it for all countries. I mean it's not like China is specifically targeted in this regard. When Putins regime does something people say Russia and the same goes for Italy,Germany, France,Iran,US and so on.

Maybe I'm wrong but if so then why specifically should we stop saying China?

 

[Perfectsil]

I'm glad you're for Taiwan/Hong Kong/Tibet/Xinjiang, many Chinese are with CCP on these issues though, even those immigrated to the West

 

[Faustek]

wandering thanks. This thread has given me something to think about.

Yes, it's easy to assume that everyone is ok with it when you're talking about an authoritarian regime that has spent decades eroding the available apparatuses of dissent.

It's easy to assume that when you have no familiarity and no real, genuine investment in the situation and can just sit comfortably in self-righteousness and ignorance. See where I'm going?

Baidu 10 Mythical Creatures - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Ai Weiwei - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Chen Qiushi - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

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Gui Minhai - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Dreamgazer]

WARNING: UNPOPULAR OPINION

Let me preface this by saying that one of my favorite book is Bo Yang (柏楊)'s "The Ugly Chinaman." A book that is so titled with the very intention of triggering its target audience, and raising awareness, to the inherent social issues that lie at the root of the Chinese culture.

As a Chinese + Taiwanese-American, I understand the OP's inherent identity crisis and pain upon seeing casual attacks on China from forum posters who clearly do not have a deep level of understanding. Yet, as someone who is deeply concerned with East Asian-Politics, I also really want to discourage the generalization of blaming CCP and "brainwashed elders" as the sole source to all of the region's political/racism issues.

The CCP alone cannot explain the housing market price issues that also plagues Hong Kong and Taiwan.

The CCP alone cannot explain the racist objections raised against the party's permanent residency for foreigners draft.

The CCP alone cannot explain netizen's cry of "rights violations" against the government ban of wet-markets.

"Brainwashed Elders" cannot explain why there are young, educated, and intelligent supporters of the CCP, or the people who attempted to change the CCP from within.

"Brainwashed Elders" cannot explain why there are young supporters of KMT in Taiwan, why there are multiple completing pro-independence parties, or the rise of the Taiwan People's Party.

Like American politics - China, Taiwan, Hong Kong politics and the Cross Strait relations are all complicated topics that cannot be explained away without recognizing the people are no less contributors, enablers, influencers, and factors that cannot be ignored. There are current social-economic and cultural issues at the core that cannot be explained away by "oh it's because of years of bad history." (I highly doubt if you pick a random American on the street they'll also give you some historical/efficiency explanation to why America remain a democracy) And sometimes people need to be provoked into speaking about those topics due to the unfortunate pacifist nature of most Asian.

That said, ResetEra generally is not the place to do so.

 

[wandering]

WARNING: UNPOPULAR OPINION

Let me preface this by saying that one of my favorite book is Bo Yang (柏楊)'s "The Ugly Chinaman." A book that is so titled with the very intention of triggering its target audience, and raising awareness, to the inherent social issues that lie at the root of the Chinese culture.

As a Chinese + Taiwanese-American, I understand the OP's inherent identity crisis and pain upon seeing casual attacks on China from forum posters who clearly do not have a deep level of understanding. Yet, as someone who is deeply concerned with East Asian-Politics, I also really want to discourage the generalization of blaming CCP and "brainwashed elders" as the sole source to all of the region's political/racism issues.

The CCP alone cannot explain the housing market price issues that also plagues Hong Kong and Taiwan.

The CCP alone cannot explain the racist objections raised against the party's permanent residency for foreigners draft.

The CCP alone cannot explain netizen's cry of "rights violations" against the government ban of wet-markets.

"Brainwashed Elders" cannot explain why there are young, educated, and intelligent supporters of the CCP, or the people who attempted to change the CCP from within.

"Brainwashed Elders" cannot explain why there are young supporters of KMT in Taiwan, why there are multiple completing pro-independence parties, or the rise of the Taiwan People's Party.

Like American politics - China, Taiwan, Hong Kong politics and the Cross Strait relations are all complicated topics that cannot be explained away without recognizing the people are no less contributors, enablers, influencers, and factors that cannot be ignored. There are current social-economic and cultural issues at the core that cannot be explained away by "oh it's because of years of bad history." (I highly doubt if you pick a random American on the street they'll also give you some historical/efficiency explanation to why America remain a democracy) And sometimes people need to be provoked into speaking about those topics due to the unfortunate pacifist nature of most Asian.

That said, ResetEra generally is not the place to do so.

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I don't think we disagree on most of your points. Where we do disagree is that I don't find being intentionally provocative, adversarial, or patronizing a particularly compelling tactic in conversations with other Chinese people about the topic.

I do find it interesting that you characterize it as an easy explaining away via "bad history" when I do acknowledge, quite openly, the very cultural and socio-economic issues you're talking about. Your American on the street hypothetical is pretty confusing to me. Do you think that if you asked a random Chinese person on the street that they'd acknowledge systemic cultural flaws? Historical context is inseparable from current social-economic character, and my explanation of such isn't to "explain away," it's an intro into the cultural background that allows for the development of complicity with authoritarianism and Han chauvinism.

 

[Nocturne]

i feel like this goes without saying but people are not born fully formed. they are born in cultures, which largely reproduce people of similar values and perspectives, who in turn influence culture. those people can have scars, and culture, much like anything else, reproduces those scars as well. that's simply how it is, it's not an excuse or a get out of jail for free card.

like, the average american will probably not tell you about slavery, the civil war, and the failure of reconstruction in the 19th century and draw a clear line between that and the state of american politics and culture in the 21st century. but even if they could, it would not stop that from being an argument of merit and something to consider beyond the 'bad history'.

also i think off-hand statements talking about the 'unfortunate pacifist nature of most Asians' kind of says something in and of itself.

 

[Wrapped in Black]

Very insightful post. I do notice there has been some casual racism toward Asians in this place recently, like with that thread about Kim Jong Un's health where people were saying that some people would turn his sister into their "anime waifu" because she's attractive. Real bad look.

 

[Wrapped in Black]

I'm all for talking about racism towards asian americans, I don't think we talk about it enough but I don't know, man. Feels like black people are still getting shot to death by the police on an alarming basis in this country.

If its a contest of who has it worst, I don't think african americans are getting beat anytime soon.

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Native Americans arguably have it the worst in the U.S., but I won't make it into a contest.

 

[Pet]

And sometimes people need to be provoked into speaking about those topics due to the unfortunate pacifist nature of most Asian.

That said, ResetEra generally is not the place to do so.

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I mean, I think there's a lot of issues to address. Forget issues in China, as an Asian American I think there's a lot of issues that Asian Americans need to address within the Asian American community.

There is a big difference, however, between (for example) a white guy glibly commenting "but Asians are the most racist" on a thread about anti-Asian racism in the US, and people honestly discussing issues of racism manifesting within the Asian American community against other minorities.

Unfortunately most of Reset falls into the first category when it comes to this. That's why, in a way, it's better for many posters to rethink their simplistic and rooted-in-bigotry takes.

 

[CrocoDuck]

this is an interesting topic and thanks for presenting your viewpoints. I don't really know where to start but here was what came to mind:

You shouldn't be ashamed of your ethnic background - be proud of that shit. Even if you come from a country that isnt the best government wise or a has a long history of oppression (the government, i mean). You can seperate the people/culture and the people running the show.

This may seem like an unpopular opinion here, but it always bugged me how immigrants in this country relinquish their cultural identities in order to "fit in" with American society/white world. Growing up in NYC, I lived in a Jewish/Chinese neighborhood; many of my friends growing up were Chinese. Many of them would have anglicized names and were always ashamed of mentioning their Chinese name. Many of them never bothered to learn Chinese with English being their main language. I know this is notexclusive to America and that any person immigrating to another country eventually learns to give it up - but I just think there's something sad and lost in that process.

what my main message to you, again - be proud of your culture, learn (if you don't already) the language of your parents; there is beauty in all cultures/languages. Don't give shit up just to "fit in" - whether you are Chinese, Japanese, Korean, etc.(any other race/culture). You're all unique.

 

[Sayre]

This is probably true but I think in order for it to work and stick we should really stop doing it for all countries. I mean it's not like China is specifically targeted in this regard. When Putins regime does something people say Russia and the same goes for Italy,Germany, France,Iran,US and so on.

Maybe I'm wrong but if so then why specifically should we stop saying China?

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There is a lot of great discussion in here but I specifically wanted to address this point because I see it mentioned by other people as well. (NOTE: this is an American centric post but substitute America with any other western nation)

All the other countries you mentioned save for maybe the Iranians have not had an increase in violence and racism against the people. That's not really a coincidence. You wouldn't be able to tell an average Russian American on the street compared to say an average Asian American. And that's part of the reality we live in right now. A lot of us are Americans and are born here, but we will always seen as an outsider because of the way we look no matter how many generations we've lived in this country. Doesn't matter if we are Japanese, Taiwanese, Singaporean, Vietnamese, Korean, etc we are all Chinese in their eyes.

If Russian Americans start becoming victims of racism and violence then yes, maybe we should stop saying, "The Russians" too.

Another point I want to make is that there is a fine line between blaming the government and blaming the people of the country. Often I see people on era looking down at Chinese citizens as if they're uncivilized, sheep, or worse, complicit. If those prejudices didn't exist then maybe it would be okay to treat China the same as any other "bash X country here"

 

[gully state]

this is an interesting topic and thanks for presenting your viewpoints. I don't really know where to start but here was what came to mind:

You shouldn't be ashamed of your ethnic background - be proud of that shit. Even if you come from a country that isnt the best government wise or a has a long history of oppression (the government, i mean). You can seperate the people/culture and the people running the show.

This may seem like an unpopular opinion here, but it always bugged me how immigrants in this country relinquish their cultural identities in order to "fit in" with American society/white world. Growing up in NYC, I lived in a Jewish/Chinese neighborhood; many of my friends growing up were Chinese. Many of them would have anglicized names and were always ashamed of mentioning their Chinese name. Many of them never bothered to learn Chinese with English being their main language. I know this is notexclusive to America and that any person immigrating to another country eventually learns to give it up - but I just think there's something sad and lost in that process.

what my main message to you, again - be proud of your culture, learn (if you don't already) the language of your parents; there is beauty in all cultures/languages. Don't give shit up just to "fit in" - whether you are Chinese, Japanese, Korean, etc.(any other race/culture). You're all unique.

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Wow... that sounds so condescending. I know that's not your intent but we aren't given Anglo names out of shame and I certainly didn't relinquish my Chinese name.

 

[Dreamgazer]

I don't think we disagree on most of your points. Where we do disagree is that I don't find being intentionally provocative, adversarial, or patronizing a particularly compelling tactic in conversations with other Chinese people about the topic.

I do find it interesting that you characterize it as an easy explaining away via "bad history" when I do acknowledge, quite openly, the very cultural and socio-economic issues you're talking about. Your American on the street hypothetical is pretty confusing to me. Do you think that if you asked a random Chinese person on the street that they'd acknowledge systemic cultural flaws? Historical context is inseparable from current social-economic character, and my explanation of such isn't to "explain away," it's an intro into the cultural background that allows for the development of complicity with authoritarianism and Han chauvinism.

Click to shrink...

Perhaps I am cynical, but from my experiences Asians in general just won't have heavy political discussions outside of like minded group. That is great for the harmony of Chinese online forums where Chinese, Taiwanese, Hong Kong interact together. However, it is also a missed opportunity when political discussions had for different groups to understand one another's viewpoint.

"Provoking", "adversarial" doesn't mean one has to resort to racism, stereotype or other unsightly arguments. Discussion on Taiwan independence or China's implementation of the the Nine-dash line are easily provoking enough topics to certain Chinese audiences. Ai Weiwei's act of smashing Han dynasty artwork is also a way of provoking his target audience without resorting to personal attacks.

As for the importance of historical context - my personal feeling is that when it comes to the discussion of East-Asian politics in English forums - historical context is fine to explain how something started (which we agree on). However, it is over used in explaining the politics of NOW. Yes, the random Chinese person on the street is unlikely care much about the systemic cultural flaws or history that have led them to the current political environment. Hence, the historical context will not engage the typical Chinese audience, and for people who only scratches the surface it often foster the tired "it's just the old elders who support those ideals" narrative that is all too prevalent.

 

[Deleted member 15227]

Sorry for the rambling post.

My problem is mainly with the CCP and their supporters. In Australia here we have a small but extremely vocal contingent of Chinese (international students mainly) who are extensions of the CCP propaganda arm.

These arseholes will rock up to shout down or antagonise protests for Hong Kong, Taiwan, Falun Gong etc. Even though it's their right to protest, it's still infuriating that they would have the gall to do it here in Australia. Then there are the CCP efforts to quash dissent and control the narrative here in our politics and in the press, accompanied by the usual insults and threats. Sometimes they'll play the victim card too.

I understand where the OP is coming from and can sympathize 100% — I'm an Australian born Vietnamese here with a Chinese wife, so I often feel conflicted and get caught up in all the shit (past and present) going on between my ancestral homeland, China, and the West.

My parents and family are from South Vietnam, who fled to Canada and Australia during the war. One of my best friends is from North Vietnam (in the early days he was fond of reminding me that there is no North and South anymore), and I really detest the Communist Party of Vietnam (CPV) as well. After some time living here in Australia, he has begun to acknowledge that the CPV is far from perfect as they would have him believe. Some of my Chinese mainlander friends also have begun to acknowledge the same sentiment, quietly, about the CCP. However they're all united when it comes to Taiwan ... 😤

In my experience, the majority of racists don't make the distinction between whether you're Chinese, Vietnamese, Cambodian, Singaporean etc., they are going to be cunts to you simply because you're Asian. I've had quite a few incidents where I've been told to 'go back where you came from' (you mean 'Sydney'?) and the usual mocking of the Chinese language when they catch me speaking either Vietnamese or Cantonese to family and friends ('how many languages are you fluent in champ?', is my usual reply in perfect English).This is exacerbated by a whitewashed media, casual racism directed at Asians everywhere, including here on Resetera, and Asians themselves not speaking up for themselves, trying to be the model minority, and/or growing up ashamed of who they are and contemptible of their own culture and people.

A cousin, on my wife's side, will join in with her white boyfriend (who loves all things Japan of course), to make racist jokes about her own people (Chinese on mother's side and Vietnamese on father's). My wife's other male cousin (all Chinese obviously but all Australian born) will often join in with the Asian bashing and belittling of their own people! When we call them out on this and ask them to stop, they remind us that it's just a 'joke'. It's really disgusting. It's interesting to me how that side of the family grew up to loathe themselves and their culture so much (all have white partners) yet love everything Japan.

 

[Dreamgazer]

I mean, I think there's a lot of issues to address. Forget issues in China, as an Asian American I think there's a lot of issues that Asian Americans need to address within the Asian American community.

There is a big difference, however, between (for example) a white guy glibly commenting "but Asians are the most racist" on a thread about anti-Asian racism in the US, and people honestly discussing issues of racism manifesting within the Asian American community against other minorities.

Unfortunately most of Reset falls into the first category when it comes to this. That's why, in a way, it's better for many posters to rethink their simplistic and rooted-in-bigotry takes.

Click to shrink...

Obviously, context is key and I'm aware this is probably the wrong thread to talk in-depth Chinese politics when the focus should specifically be on the plight of Asian Americans. My target audience (other Asians) is different from the OP which is in a way derailing the thread.

So I do apologize for that.

 

[Antiwhippy]

These arseholes will rock up to shout down or antagonise protests for Hong Kong, Taiwan, Falun Gong etc. Even though it's their right to protest, it's still infuriating that they would have the gall to do it here in Australia. Then there are the CCP efforts to quash dissent and control the narrative here in our politics and in the press, accompanied by the usual insults and threats. Sometimes they'll play the victim card too.

I understand where the OP is coming from and can sympathize 100% — I'm an Australian born Vietnamese here with a Chinese wife, so I often feel conflicted and get caught up in all the shit (past and present) going on between my ancestral homeland, China, and the West.

My parents and family are from South Vietnam, who fled to Canada and Australia during the war. One of my best friends is from North Vietnam (in the early days he was fond of reminding me that there is no North and South anymore), and I really detest the Communist Party of Vietnam (CPV) as well. After some time living here in Australia, he has begun to acknowledge that the CPV is far from perfect as they would have him believe. Some of my Chinese mainlander friends also have begun to acknowledge the same sentiment, quietly, about the CCP. However they're all united when it comes to Taiwan ... 😤

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Honestly, from what I know about these types, a lot of it feels tied to China's rise as a global superpower. It's like jingoistic pride because all within a century China has experienced being a third world country with millions dying from starvation to the new rich and being one of the more technologically advanced countries.

A lot of it also feels tied towards weird historical racial tensions where they always felt the Chinese were second tier to the western hegemony but the positions are currently getting reversed. Which is crazy to think about when you see how it's currently exploiting African countries. History really does repeat itself.

 

[Pet]

Obviously, context is key and I'm aware this is probably the wrong thread to talk in-depth Chinese politics when the focus should specifically be on the plight of Asian Americans. My target audience (other Asians) is different from the OP which is in a way derailing the thread.

So I do apologize for that.

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Ah I agree with your original post in here and I didn't mean it in a, this isn't the place to talk about it. I was adding onto your comment about how this isn't really the forum for those discussions due to people not even being able to tell apart the difference between an Asian experience in Asia and an Asian experience in the US/western world.

I think those issues you mentioned are important for Asian Americans to understand (especially Chinese Americans) because I think they influence the way newer immigrants and immigrant generations think (who turn out to be our parents, our grandparents, ourselves).

It's too bad we can't have those discussions openly, due to the number of nonAsians that will come in and dominate the conversation without any sort of thought to the nuance.

 

[B-Dubs]

wandering I just wanted to say thank you again for making this thread. It's a lot for people to take in, but I do hope those that take the time to read it take what you've said to heart. I hope that, at the very least, other posters will be more willing to listen, really listen, to asian posters, and people in general, when it comes to this and all the other kinds of bigotry our society has normalized over the years.

 

[Booshka]

I work as a Nurse in Central Pennsylvania, my wife is a Chinese national attending Penn State for a PhD in Second Language Education and Sociocultural theory. She has been here since 2016 when she came for her Masters.

Some of my dumbass white coworkers made jokes and comments about me working there and bringing the virus back with us from China. I heard rumors that someone even said I shouldn't be able to work there because my wife is Chinese. Shit is wild.

OP was fantastic wandering, shared it with my wife.

 

[CapNBritain]

Thanks for making this thread, I hope it helps enlighten a few minds

 

[Lunaray]

Thank you for making this thread. I have been extremely jaded with attitude of many online spaces (here included) regarding Asia.

WARNING: UNPOPULAR OPINION

Let me preface this by saying that one of my favorite book is Bo Yang (柏楊)'s "The Ugly Chinaman." A book that is so titled with the very intention of triggering its target audience, and raising awareness, to the inherent social issues that lie at the root of the Chinese culture.

As a Chinese + Taiwanese-American, I understand the OP's inherent identity crisis and pain upon seeing casual attacks on China from forum posters who clearly do not have a deep level of understanding. Yet, as someone who is deeply concerned with East Asian-Politics, I also really want to discourage the generalization of blaming CCP and "brainwashed elders" as the sole source to all of the region's political/racism issues.

The CCP alone cannot explain the housing market price issues that also plagues Hong Kong and Taiwan.

The CCP alone cannot explain the racist objections raised against the party's permanent residency for foreigners draft.

The CCP alone cannot explain netizen's cry of "rights violations" against the government ban of wet-markets.

"Brainwashed Elders" cannot explain why there are young, educated, and intelligent supporters of the CCP, or the people who attempted to change the CCP from within.

"Brainwashed Elders" cannot explain why there are young supporters of KMT in Taiwan, why there are multiple completing pro-independence parties, or the rise of the Taiwan People's Party.

Like American politics - China, Taiwan, Hong Kong politics and the Cross Strait relations are all complicated topics that cannot be explained away without recognizing the people are no less contributors, enablers, influencers, and factors that cannot be ignored. There are current social-economic and cultural issues at the core that cannot be explained away by "oh it's because of years of bad history." (I highly doubt if you pick a random American on the street they'll also give you some historical/efficiency explanation to why America remain a democracy) And sometimes people need to be provoked into speaking about those topics due to the unfortunate pacifist nature of most Asian.

That said, ResetEra generally is not the place to do so.

Click to shrink...

I completely agree with all your points save the one about wet markets. I think it's very important to clarify what we mean by that. I do not condone the trade or sale of wild animals whatsoever and completely support a wholesale ban on that. But feel like many who clamor for the blanket ban on wet markets do not understand that wet markets are basically farmer's markets.

 

[Qvoth]

there's a reason why asianera community basically left here
OP might wanna check them out in their discord, maybe post something in the pretty much dead community thread and hope someone sees the post and invites you to the discord

 

[Pollen]

Excellent thread that elucidates the continued otherization of AsAms through orientalism, the "model-minority" myth, bamboo ceiling, etc. As another AsAm, I found your account liberating, OP. Thank you for sharing your story.

Would like to point out how difficult it is for AsAms or other Asian people in western countries to find spaces to congregate and seek solace in. There are absolutely Chinatowns, large Asian districts in American suburbs/cities, etc. but there's more often than not, not that many of us. Unless you reside in these safe spaces, it's very easy for us to lose our cultural identity because we're forced to assimilate towards the norms that our peers present to us, hence leading to the dissociative identities that we often have to craft ourselves.

There is a lot of trauma that the AsAm experience has that are not written about, taught to, or shared in a wide level quite yet. On a good note, I have been seeing people sharing more about the Asian diaspora online throughout the years on social media; a really good book I have read called On Earth We Are Briefly Gorgeous touches on a lot of what I have written about—with beautiful prose to boot.

Also, I am not Chinese specifically, but much of what you wrote about can be applied pretty much wholesale to most Asian immigrants wanting to escape either the authoritarian regime or imperialistic warfare from major powers (whom are, admittedly not purely European, but also Asian as well, but that's a different topic and a lot to unpack). I think AsAms just need to recognize that there is a lot of power in generalizing our experiences to an extent so we can seek more community with other progressive groups, groups of color, religiously persecuted groups, etc.

 

[squeakywheel]

I'm part Chinese and have gotten some racist verbal abuse thrown my way a few times. I feel for the OP. I kind of ignore that part of my ancestry, as do my folks.
I think the evil CCP needs to be called out at every opportunity but you can't paint assume every Chinese person is from there. I do see a lot of rich mainlanders locally that have been heavily brainwashed and will stan for the CCP at any opportunity. I guess they need to keep building that social credit even abroad, sadly so, I assume, their family can keep being in the good graces of the CCP.

 

[Antiwhippy]

I'm part Chinese and have gotten some racist verbal abuse thrown my way a few times. I feel for the OP. I kind of ignore that part of my ancestry, as do my folks.
I think the evil CCP needs to be called out at every opportunity but you can't paint assume every Chinese person is from there. I do see a lot of rich mainlanders locally that have been heavily brainwashed and will stan for the CCP at any opportunity. I guess they need to keep building that social credit even abroad, sadly so, I assume, their family can keep being in the good graces of the CCP.

Click to shrink...

This is a dangerous road to go down to just assume every mainlander is brainwashed, and also kinda ignores the history that leads to it.

I guess it'll be like calling every Republican brainwashed but there are pretty clear steps how things got to the state it is.

 

[squeakywheel]

This is a dangerous road to go down to just assume every mainlander is brainwashed, and also kinda ignores the history that leads to it.

I guess it'll be like calling every Republican brainwashed but there are pretty clear steps how things got to the state it is.

Click to shrink...

Not saying that at all. Sorry that came across poorly. There is not an insignificant amount of rich and young mainlanders stanning for the CCP in my area. I have met many not as well-off folks from mainland China who are pretty opposed to the CCP in private.

 

[Antiwhippy]

Not saying that at all. Sorry that came across poorly. There is not an insignificant amount of rich and young mainlanders stanning for the CCP in my area. I have met many not as well-off folks from mainland China who are pretty opposed to the CCP in private.

Click to shrink...

Yeah there are the jingoistic stands for sure, but a lot of the people I know kinda just don't want to rock the boat when their experience of living China is, in the first time in a long time, in a position of stability and growth.

Honestly hate the CCP, but don't really begrudge the people living under them who see the benefit of the CCP and China growing in power in the world stage. It only really crosss the line for me when they also deny the atrocities the CCP commit too.

 

[Elfotografoalocado]

Amazing post. Finally somebody says this. Most of the supposedly woke people calling out China for this are just spewing racist talking points, promoting hatred, and don't really give a damn about what happens in China or what Chinese people (The main victims of the regime) go through.

 

[Puppulent Succulent]

WARNING: UNPOPULAR OPINION

Let me preface this by saying that one of my favorite book is Bo Yang (柏楊)'s "The Ugly Chinaman." A book that is so titled with the very intention of triggering its target audience, and raising awareness, to the inherent social issues that lie at the root of the Chinese culture.

As a Chinese + Taiwanese-American, I understand the OP's inherent identity crisis and pain upon seeing casual attacks on China from forum posters who clearly do not have a deep level of understanding. Yet, as someone who is deeply concerned with East Asian-Politics, I also really want to discourage the generalization of blaming CCP and "brainwashed elders" as the sole source to all of the region's political/racism issues.

The CCP alone cannot explain the housing market price issues that also plagues Hong Kong and Taiwan.

The CCP alone cannot explain the racist objections raised against the party's permanent residency for foreigners draft.

The CCP alone cannot explain netizen's cry of "rights violations" against the government ban of wet-markets.

"Brainwashed Elders" cannot explain why there are young, educated, and intelligent supporters of the CCP, or the people who attempted to change the CCP from within.

"Brainwashed Elders" cannot explain why there are young supporters of KMT in Taiwan, why there are multiple completing pro-independence parties, or the rise of the Taiwan People's Party.

Like American politics - China, Taiwan, Hong Kong politics and the Cross Strait relations are all complicated topics that cannot be explained away without recognizing the people are no less contributors, enablers, influencers, and factors that cannot be ignored. There are current social-economic and cultural issues at the core that cannot be explained away by "oh it's because of years of bad history." (I highly doubt if you pick a random American on the street they'll also give you some historical/efficiency explanation to why America remain a democracy) And sometimes people need to be provoked into speaking about those topics due to the unfortunate pacifist nature of most Asian.

That said, ResetEra generally is not the place to do so.

Click to shrink...

I agree on the nuance you describe and I don't think it's unpopular to unpack that being part of Chinese heritage comes with a lot of baggage and complexities (how can it not, when the history is so long?) but I agree with wandering in that I don't believe we are using the CCP as a scapegoat to explain away real problems.

However, as Elfotografoalocado has posted, the main issue is that supposedly woke people just spew racist talking points, and we can't even get to discussing those issues without it becoming blanketed by other noise.

Back when the Hong Kong protests were further in the spotlight, one article described some of the conditions Hong Kongers face as an economic problem, outside of the surface coverage portraying it as strictly political over here in the West: As one of the world's most unequal cities, why aren't Hong Kong protesters angry at the rich and powerful?
It's difficult to have a real discussion (as part of the diaspora) to talk about systemic issues you point out, without it being hijacked (when 'Free Hong Kong' became a rallying cry without the critical context and reading required, and Twitch being especially garbage during this time).

I have Hong Kong heritage and honestly, eventually I would hope the city's political situation gets better, but seeing some of the footage back then was pretty heartbreaking - such as this SCMP video: Elderly Hongkonger cleans up roadblocks while asking young protesters 'what good' their actions do

All of this made me think about my own older relatives over there, and it's exactly what you describe - complicated!
But if I had tried to express this sort of video and sentiment back when the protests were fiery on this forum, I'd have been accused as a CCP shill from others who probably never even stepped foot in Hong Kong, so I didn't - why try to convince others who won't even make the effort to read further?

Anecdotally, this attitude extends beyond ResetERA as well, and what made it much more annoying is when I'd experience co-workers who would 'other' mainland colleagues and suddenly, we're seeing them being pitted against me from this coverage. And, no joke, this is probably solely because of my ability to speak English with a Canadian accent. This felt totally opposed to the so-called 'we're all Canadian...' idea growing up, so I definitely feel the need to speak up.

 

[ABIC]

I agree on the nuance you describe and I don't think it's unpopular to unpack that being part of Chinese heritage comes with a lot of baggage and complexities (how can it not, when the history is so long?) but I agree with wandering in that I don't believe we are using the CCP as a scapegoat to explain away real problems.

However, as Elfotografoalocado has posted, the main issue is that supposedly woke people just spew racist talking points, and we can't even get to discussing those issues without it becoming blanketed by other noise.

Back when the Hong Kong protests were further in the spotlight, one article described some of the conditions Hong Kongers face as an economic problem, outside of the surface coverage portraying it as strictly political over here in the West: As one of the world's most unequal cities, why aren't Hong Kong protesters angry at the rich and powerful?
It's difficult to have a real discussion (as part of the diaspora) to talk about systemic issues you point out, without it being hijacked (when 'Free Hong Kong' became a rallying cry without the critical context and reading required, and Twitch being especially garbage during this time).

I have Hong Kong heritage and honestly, eventually I would hope the city's political situation gets better, but seeing some of the footage back then was pretty heartbreaking - such as this SCMP video: Elderly Hongkonger cleans up roadblocks while asking young protesters 'what good' their actions do

All of this made me think about my own older relatives over there, and it's exactly what you describe - complicated!
But if I had tried to express this sort of video and sentiment back when the protests were fiery on this forum, I'd have been accused as a CCP shill from others who probably never even stepped foot in Hong Kong, so I didn't - why try to convince others who won't even make the effort to read further?

Anecdotally, this attitude extends beyond ResetERA as well, and what made it much more annoying is when I'd experience co-workers who would 'other' mainland colleagues and suddenly, we're seeing them being pitted against me from this coverage. And, no joke, this is probably solely because of my ability to speak English with a Canadian accent. This felt totally opposed to the so-called 'we're all Canadian...' idea growing up, so I definitely feel the need to speak up.

Click to shrink...

Yeah, I just straight up don't comment these days because it's a really complicated issue especially if you're from the area or have experiences there. Reading the overall arc of all these anti-China comments over the past few years has allowed me to understand this lens, but I worked and lived there for 5 years, and the sentiment on the ground by local Chinese is different -- and it's different across all the various social strata too!

I'm pretty sure most voices on Reddit and Western media calling out for free Hong Kong or free Tibet or stop bullying Taiwan don't know the history.. and most of it is recent history in the last 100 years too.

One more comment.. I was once doing a long-distance drive moving from the Bay to Texas.. and I listened to a podcast, I think it was The Atlantic, where a foreign correspondent who lived/worked in China for 10-15 years was speaking. He said, he felt China was so random.. like in the USA whereas causes sometimes had setbacks, you could see the overall arc was towards progress and justice.

Over the next few days I actually became more befuddled at that comment.

It's basically what a Chinese person would think about the USA in context of the election of Trump -- complete randomness.

10-15 years living there and still unable to relate or understand, that was eye opening.

 

[Pet]

there's a reason why asianera community basically left here
OP might wanna check them out in their discord, maybe post something in the pretty much dead community thread and hope someone sees the post and invites you to the discord

Click to shrink...

Lol dude OP is already in our Discord :p. OP, and a lot of posters in here, have been in the AsianERA discord for a long, long time :p.

I agree on the nuance you describe and I don't think it's unpopular to unpack that being part of Chinese heritage comes with a lot of baggage and complexities (how can it not, when the history is so long?) but I agree with wandering in that I don't believe we are using the CCP as a scapegoat to explain away real problems.

However, as Elfotografoalocado has posted, the main issue is that supposedly woke people just spew racist talking points, and we can't even get to discussing those issues without it becoming blanketed by other noise.

Back when the Hong Kong protests were further in the spotlight, one article described some of the conditions Hong Kongers face as an economic problem, outside of the surface coverage portraying it as strictly political over here in the West: As one of the world's most unequal cities, why aren't Hong Kong protesters angry at the rich and powerful?
It's difficult to have a real discussion (as part of the diaspora) to talk about systemic issues you point out, without it being hijacked (when 'Free Hong Kong' became a rallying cry without the critical context and reading required, and Twitch being especially garbage during this time).

I have Hong Kong heritage and honestly, eventually I would hope the city's political situation gets better, but seeing some of the footage back then was pretty heartbreaking - such as this SCMP video: Elderly Hongkonger cleans up roadblocks while asking young protesters 'what good' their actions do

All of this made me think about my own older relatives over there, and it's exactly what you describe - complicated!
But if I had tried to express this sort of video and sentiment back when the protests were fiery on this forum, I'd have been accused as a CCP shill from others who probably never even stepped foot in Hong Kong, so I didn't - why try to convince others who won't even make the effort to read further?

Anecdotally, this attitude extends beyond ResetERA as well, and what made it much more annoying is when I'd experience co-workers who would 'other' mainland colleagues and suddenly, we're seeing them being pitted against me from this coverage. And, no joke, this is probably solely because of my ability to speak English with a Canadian accent. This felt totally opposed to the so-called 'we're all Canadian...' idea growing up, so I definitely feel the need to speak up.

Click to shrink...

Yeah sometimes I think some of us are protected by our ability to speak English, but in a way it sometimes feels like we're seen as "one of the good ones" until we dare to disagree.

For me it's not even the ignorance that really bothers me. I don't mind if a nonAsian person wants to give their opinion and doesn't understand all the complexities, because I kinda hope they'll read other replies and responses and learn.

What really gets me is when people pretend to care about social justice issues but really just harbor racism and are using a superficially moral stance to air out their racism. There were certain posters that would go into ANY thread about China and post the same sort of comments that, at least to some of the Chinese Americans reading, was obviously because those posters had a thing against Chinese people/culture and not because they actually wanted to contribute to the discussion except to fan their hatred.

 

[Deleted member 4452]

In threads like "Tourist destroys...." you have/had posts like "lol, first thought it was a chinese tourist."

Click to shrink...

One thing I noticed even at the old place is that the tourist's ethnicity was only called out in the thread title if s/he was Chinese.

3 separate real incidents/threads:
-Baby dolphin dies after tourists pass it around for selfies
-'Selfish' tourists blamed for baby dolphin death
-Chinese tourists pull hurt dolphin out of water to take pictures; dolphin later dies

Can you guess the ethnicities involved?

 

[werezompire]

I'm an American of Scottish descent and I've lived off and on in Taiwan for about 5 years (left about a year ago). Decent Mandarin for someone who didn't grow up with it. And I just want to say that I never felt like anyone was being even remotely racist towards me or my family while I stayed there, even when sentiment towards the US government was negative. I'm sad that the reverse is not true.

I also want to say that while I was in Taiwan and Asia in general, when people saw my large family (I have 6 kids), they were surprised and told us how fortunate we were to have such a large family & clearly we must be rich. When I'm in Southern California with my family, more often than not, people assume that we're on welfare & derisively try to tell us how birth control works. It's crazy how starkly different the two attitudes are.

 

[jellyfish]

I'm a Chinese expat who's been living in the US for 5 years. It sometimes feels like I'm stuck in this weird place in between.

The growing hostility towards Chinese and Asians in general makes me feel increasingly unwelcomed. At the same time, there are still reasons which I left China for that are making me stay, and I have to repeatedly assure my parents in China, who have been following news in the US, that things are not as bad as they look, that they would be unlikely to affect me.

It is also frustrating to see how biases and misinformation on complex issues being pushed by people so self-righteous and condescending, but who have never been to China and don't speak the language, then go to the Chinese internet to see this kind of negativity being used to fan the flames of nationalism and xenophobia.

 

[Rae]

Thanks OP I've read through all the pages and I relate as ABC who doesn't speak Mandarin.

For people who are "surprised" about this fact I have to say the few people who I knew who did have fluent Mandarin had a strict immersion since they were kids or went to Chinese School/China for vacation and I couldn't afford that. I mean, do you ask everyone else if they speak a 2nd language due to their appearance? Where are you really from?

At this point of time, I'm used to being a foreigner that I've continued to struggle inside but I just zone out in public. It's rough and I like in a diverse city and area but I still get comments like asking about my future major or if I want to become a doctor. Growing up I was the only few ABC kids for decades and it was super isolated.

Also, I have been to China in the past but it's complicated from int'l students and their ideas vs the people I've met in cities vs villages. I haven't followed much politics since I get tired easily but it's difficult to think about my distant cousins supporting CCP.

 

[gully state]

Thanks OP I've read through all the pages and I relate as ABC who doesn't speak Mandarin.

For people who are "surprised" about this fact I have to say the few people who I knew who did have fluent Mandarin had a strict immersion since they were kids or went to Chinese School/China for vacation and I couldn't afford that. I mean, do you ask everyone else if they speak a 2nd language due to their appearance? Where are you really from?

At this point of time, I'm used to being a foreigner that I've continued to struggle inside but I just zone out in public. It's rough and I like in a diverse city and area but I still get comments like asking about my future major or if I want to become a doctor. Growing up I was the only few ABC kids for decades and it was super isolated.

Also, I have been to China in the past but it's complicated from int'l students and their ideas vs the people I've met in cities vs villages. I haven't followed much politics since I get tired easily but it's difficult to think about my distant cousins supporting CCP.

Click to shrink...

honestly I know more abc's who don't speak mandarin vs. abc's who do...and most mandarin speaking folks assume that with abcs in general.

 

[alpha]

Excellent post. Stuff like this is why I try to be careful not to label an entire country with the asshole behavior of the government. Because I'm American and I damn sure don't agree with the shit my leadership is doing right now, and would not want to be labeled as such let alone talking about all the racist fuckery that also ensues for Asians which as a black man I also don't want to contribute to.

 

[Midgarian]

I'm a British Turk and I can relate 100% to OP's feelings, the trials and tribulations of being descended from an "enemy country".

It makes things awkward as Western peoples perceptions of countries and people are so so coloured by geopolitical and political news in the mass media. It's incredible, even people who otherwise are progressive can be incredibly ignorant and their views on countries can be so "one note". They don't educate themselves about countries based on actual people and culture, which is easy to do these days via internet and books, but they treat the news as a source lol. You're never going to learn the intricacies of Turkish folk culture, Classical Music, literature, young people trends, or cuisine, or Turkish pop culture, because all that stuff is not news worthy.

As a Turk we have the extra baggage of being Muslim (I'm Atheist but still am somewhat Culturally Muslim) and being near the Middle East and all those stereotypes. Those stereotypes are themselves wrong for Arabs/Persians etc., but for Turks they truly don't make sense because of how unique and Western influenced our culture is compared to the more "religious" Muslim majority countries. I often see video clips from Turkey always assumed to "look like a European country" on Reddit. Always. It's never guessed as Turkey because people have a preconceived ignorant view of what Turkey is supposed to look like.

One advantage we have to alleviate ourselves of racial tension is that we are "White passing". Vast majority of Turks are guessed as being European Christian before Middle Eastern Muslim. Which leads to the classic racist comment which we Turks know as a meme among ourselves: "Oh you don't look Turkish."

What the fuck are we supposed to look like? Are we supposed to be Brown? Are we not allowed to be White, has your ignorant black and white idea of race come crashing down because an Asian Muslim majority ethnic groups looks White?

It's not just White people with the above ignorance by the way. Even "Brown Muslims" show this kind of ignorance towards Turks and sometimes say ridiculous things like "why do Turks drink alcohol?" and "you guys are not true Muslims". Like wut? Turcophobia from Westerners is one thing, but our fellow Eastern people too?

 

[Kaseoki]

This thread has been long overdue! Thank you so much to wandering for starting this conversation. I'm Hong Kong descent myself, having been born and bred in Europe and I enjoyed my Chinese identity. Yet like many others I experienced a lot of identity troubles. During the Beijing Olympics, I was a rabid China fan and I was even teary eyed while watching the opening ceremony. For once my culture and heritage was being recognised on the world stage. But even before the opening show, leading up to it, I saw so many anti-China news/posts, and I even had to deal with it at highschool with all the Free Tibet slogans etc. I felt so pushed into the corner, like I had to defend my very existence of being Chinese.

Now that I have matured and become an adult, I now understand what people meant by 'Free Tibet'. Having moved to live in Asia, meeting different people, witnessing the Hong Kong protests, I gained an understanding as to why CCP is wrong and why people hated China. I now have a love-hate relationship with China. Love the food and culture, but hate the whole authoritarian and hive-mind acceptance. It really isn't easy having to balance this love and hate game.

Here's a question for the mods. What do we do about pro-CCP/anti-democratic speech that is on Era? Over the past year I have encountered numerous posts that do not add anything to the discussion but merely remind people that "Taiwan is not a recognised country", or something similar that diminishes the dignity of groups targeted by the CCP. And these posts are usually made from the same few members here. While I'm all for free speech and discussion, I see this CCP rhetoric every so often, it's almost like dog whistling because I know that person did it to diminish Hong Kongers/Taiwanese/Uyghurs, but it's not quite there enough for reporting. What they say is completely true e.g. "Hong Kong is a part of China", but it's totally inflammatory towards Hong Kongers fighting for freedom, and they know it. So does the mod team have a solution to this CCP rhetoric/dog whistling that goes on in these forums?

 

[Deleted member 4452]

I now have a love-hate relationship with China. Love the food and culture, but hate the whole authoritarian and hive-mind acceptance. It really isn't easy having to balance this love and hate game.

Click to shrink...

Just love the food and culture, and your heritage in general. The CCP is is not your heritage, it's just a government that its people have no control over.

Over the past year I have encountered numerous posts that do not add anything to the discussion but merely remind people that "Taiwan is not a recognised country", or something similar that diminishes the dignity of groups targeted by the CCP.

Click to shrink...

That really depends on the context, imo. Was it to undermine Taiwan, or an indictment lobbed at countries like the US or Canada or all of Europe which do not formally recognize Taiwan (but will take its money in trading)?