The Verge: Ford F-150 Lightning review (EV)
- Thread starter Biosnake
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The biggest problem with EVs is the dealerships.
Having few to sell means they tack on thousands in "market adjustments" out of pure greed.
Having few to sell means they tack on thousands in "market adjustments" out of pure greed.
At least you're not alone in that. A lot of people hate touch screen only controls, and some manufacturers have been adding back in physical buttons. Of course not everyone, but its still something.
People already buy a new car often, its nothing new. Their old one will get used by the 2nd hand market so its not that big of a deal.
This is a direct consequence of the decision to bring a new powertrain to market without a new infotainment partnership having reached fruition. It's nothing new; people of all stripes have bought cars and then traded up while they were still mechanically sound, but because they wanted new in-car systems.
Honestly I would prefer grocery hauling truck owners to own and drive this instead of the gas/diesel models.
The issue isn't just gas guzzling though. They're just too big. Every week I'm reading news of a pedestrian or cycler being killed in just my own town alone.
The new tax credit, they're really targeting lower priced sedans, midsized SUVs, and something like the Ford Maverick EV, more affordable vehicles. The benefits won't start to be available for a couple more years, which is to give automakers an opportunity to expand their qualified vehicles in that time.
Most people who own trucks use them as every day drivers, with the opportunity for being a work truck, so anything that cuts into that market with an E.V. will be a net benefit. Concerns around size definitely apply, but Ford also didn't want to make their first genuine E.V. Truck be a car that doesn't appeal to the typical truck consumer. Automakers kinda learned that mistake from the first line up of E.V.s that people who want to buy EVs aren't just people who want to *signal* that theyv'e bought an EV, they're also people like me who don't want their car to stand out at all.
I'm just saying that I'm not aware of any sedans at all that would qualify except for the Teslas. Do you know of any in the pipeline? Are Ford or GM planning any EV sedans?
That cat is unfortunately out of the bag. As much as some of us want to go back to smaller cars, automakers aren't making them anymore and consumers aren't buying them.
This isn't going to change without some kind of law that limits the size of a vehicle by weight, height and length, which isn't going to happen.
This is a great point. Hybrids and early EV vehicles were ugly. It was a very bad fashion statement putting those things out there. I'm also glad automakers are now making the new EV's closer to standard cars or even better looking. I'm definitely looking forward to the new Chevy Blazer EV!
It can actually be put back in the bag. It is called legislation. Governments can forbid cars of X size being sold and used in their country. The USA can pass a law saying no vehicles of X size can be imported or sold in the US anymore but existing ones can drive freely until they break apart.
Plenty of auto dealerships would change how they design their stuff because of it. They just won't ship giant trucks to the USA anymore.
Looks great. The legacy automakers still don't seem to be able to do it on the software side, as the review mentions. No one is really touching Tesla on that front yet, unfortunately.
Ain't happening, and some manufacturers even ditched sedans from their lineup because they don't sell as much.
Why do you think Crossovers are a thing?
maverick lightning is in the works.
I mean it's not magic. Just cause it's electric, physics still applies.
The issue is that there isn't a charger every five miles. Like there are gas stations.
We work with a guy who tows and drives fixing up mobile homes. He spends 400 bucks a week on gas.
It has plenty of physical buttons.
this is a problem. One of the first people that got a lightning on the Ford lightning forums already sold it. Part of his review was like, it drives like a truck! No shit Sherlock. Why you buy it?
Manchin really fucked the EV credits.
order one from Ford. You'll get msrp.
Not only that, the public uproar for taking away big vehicles would destroy any chance of legislation like that from even passing. The majority have spoken with their wallets and love their big vehicles. The only time we see them retreat is when gas prices reach record breaking numbers and honestly I don't think this last spike cause anyone to shift away from large vehicles.
Right now it's zero, not even any Teslas, because they have to be built after 2022 :)
Jokes aside, there are apparently 11 out of a possible 72 models of EVs that will be available for different credits, when the program starts in earnest. But the strictest rules ease in over time, not all at once. For instance, the material sourcing requirements ease in by 2025, the battery requirement by 2029.
That's part of the plan though, the bill isn't just a climate bill, but also a north American manufacturing, jobs, and production bill. You wouldn't have seen bills like this supported by the Clinton or even Obama administrations, but the Democratic party has shifted away from economic globalism over the last 5 years, and while I was always a smug globalist myself, I think it's the right thing to do politically and economically.
You are right, for some reason the source I was looking at previously said the end of 2024 (maybe a typo?)
The issue is the battery requirement that starts day one. 40% of the battery being sourced from the US/free trade partners and nothing from China/Russia/others on their list already essentially means nothing will eligible day one barring any waivers given out by the FTC. Several manufacturers have already said they probably won't be able to meet that until 2024 at the earliest assuming everything with sourcing and trade agreements actually goes correctly.
They do. And yeah, it would take years of high gas prices to have a real effect.
This is a great point. Hybrids and early EV vehicles were ugly. It was a very bad fashion statement putting those things out there. I'm also glad automakers are now making the new EV's closer to standard cars or even better looking. I'm definitely looking forward to the new Chevy Blazer EV!
yeah that looks sick.
I drive pretty boring cars, Mazda midsized SUV, because I'm not really someone who wants to attract attention through my car. It's a different kind of signalling by me, "Boring old guy coming through with dog slobber on my windows and grape jelly smushed into the car seat,"
I was really turned off by the early design of EVs/hybrids because I just don't want to have a conversation about my car. I don't care about my car. I want the thing that's most practical for me, cheap, practical, comfortable to drive, nice features for me, that's what my priority is. The first ~10 years of hybrids and EVs they were just branded differently, and I think with some of them the design was to maximize air flow and stuff like that which is cool and all, but I think they were also designed to strike up a conversation ... "oooh, that's a hybrid?" type thing. I get it when it's a new market, it just didn't appeal to me.
I thought the Chevy Volt was an important hybrid/EV/whatever because it looked like a normal sedan.
If I ever bought a truck, part of the appeal of the Maverick or the F-150 Lightning is that they just look like normal trucks, enough that if I was at home depot someone wouldn't say to me "Hey, driving that electric truck huh you probably love Biden huh?" And while, sure, I do love him like I love my grandfather, I don't want to have that conversation.
I had a decades old Ranger and it was indestructible. It was cheap as hell to replace anything and had no major issues with over 200k miles.
I haven't followed Ford and their pickups... but just now while looking into it..
They also have the Ford Maverick Hybrid for $20,000 (I don't know how they did it)
42mpg City.
I think it's 11 cars today would qualify, though, right -- not zero? 11 isn't as many as 72, the number of EVs on the market (according to this Forbes article). I get that the manufacturers don't want to meet the requirements or they'll hem and haw about how it's too hard, but that's the cost of the taxpayer subsidizing your vehicle, you have to meet standards and requirements.
It's a big spending bill on auto manufacturers, and I think it's right to have strings attached to it. When tax payers bailed out the auto manufacturers in 2007, 2008, it was about $12b from what I remember and there weren't a lot of strings on that (in the end, most fo TARP was repayed and taxpayers made a small profit). This is a ~$400b spending package, it's a lot of money, and I think it's reasonable to expect changes from billion dollar corporations in order for them to qualify for government handouts.
It's also a little bit of diplomatic posturing, a carrot to be held out for cooperation from corporations overseas. E.g., "You want a slice of this $400b American taxpayer pie, do your best to stay a strong trade partner with the US." It's unusual for Democrats to do this, a far cry from Clinton era economic globalism, but there was a political cost to that globalism domestically, and this is a good step to try and wrest that back (and I say this as a supporter -- then-- of TPP and NAFTA)
Again, it's entirely based on the battery. There are cars that would qualify due to their price and being manufactured in the US however 76% of lithium battery production occurs in China which includes mineral sourcing. Even at 40% of the battery being required to be from the US/free trade partners creates a massive issue for every electric vehicle available today in the US, it only gets worse each year with the 10% annual bump up to 90%.
I moved deeper into the suburbs a year ago, bordering on a rural area, and it's wild how many people have trucks seemingly just because they like trucks or whatever. Like a perfectly clean and pristine giant F-150 that they need to carefully cram into the one car garage in their little townhouse (which doesn't have a yard, never mind "property" or space for anything they'd tow). If even 5% of these people opt for an EV that's a huge amount of emissions reduction.
This place has a weird hate for people that have trucks. Regardless if they need them or not.
I am expecting all the tech in EVs to be manufactured on a cycle of planned obsolescence so that every 2-3 years people get a new vehicle like they get a new phone. Essentially wiping out the gains that an EV provides for the environment. This already seems to be happening for ICE and Hybrid vehicles, EVs will be sold as a green solution for emissions, but it's better to run an ICE vehicle into the ground for 10+ years of usage rather than the cycle of a new electric vehicle every couple years.
And with all the subsidies for EVs, it will incentivize production of new vehicles more important than maintenance of existing vehicles.
And with all the subsidies for EVs, it will incentivize production of new vehicles more important than maintenance of existing vehicles.
All the purists are giving Chevy crap for calling it the Blazer, but, honestly, I really, really like it. Hoping the release version looks just like this.This is a great point. Hybrids and early EV vehicles were ugly. It was a very bad fashion statement putting those things out there. I'm also glad automakers are now making the new EV's closer to standard cars or even better looking. I'm definitely looking forward to the new Chevy Blazer EV!
Honestly, I might actually be down for this if they just dropped their onboard crap as the base standard and offered Android Auto like my Equinox does. I intentionally got the most basic 2018 model because it came with AA as a standard so I didn't need the GPS or anything else and the MPG is actually pretty good. I still partly miss having a truck because it just fits me well, but I strongly dislike the size of the larger ones (my old 2000 Silverado was just too big for me , eventually), don't want to even be considered or looked at as some douche coal-roller and I would like it to have enough space to drive the three of us around instead of just 2. It also wouldn't fit into my garage alongside my Equinox because garages are increasingly shrinking in size as houses are built (2-car garage don't mean shit if you can't get out of said cars!)..
Don't forget "Fix Or Repair Daily!"
God help anyone here who buys a Cybertruck. Tesla and a truck? Oof.
Only thing worse is if they're exposed as letting their cat outside, too.
The difference with phones is that vehicles have much longer lives in the 2nd hand market, and also not everyone can afford to continually get a new vehicle like they can a phone.
Yeah pretty much the only way to get people into smaller cars is to make large ones too expensive to own.
Plenty of people do, including people expressing an interest in this thread. I have a small farm and need to haul hay, horses, equipment and supplies. I also don't want to use gas. So F150 Lightning or Rivian are the only current options, at least until Silverado EV and Cybertruck hit the streets.
Ya I recognize this but I think the tech that is embedded into vehicles now is becoming the next frontier for continual upgrades and waste. I feel like manufacturing is going to lean into this to sell more new cars and continue to monetize used cars with the embedded tech that is sluggish and in constant need of repair
It's a truck. It needs to be able to do work, despite 90% of people buying them to haul sports equipment for the kids and groceries.
You're misunderstanding. "Tow package" and "max tow package" etc. are common options on ICE trucks too, and necessary to expand towing capacity from roughly 5000lbs on a class 3 hitch to a class 4 hitch, trailer brake controller, auxiliary transmission cooler, maybe larger mirrors, etc. so you can actually tow the advertised ratings of 9000-13000lbs with a half ton truck.
This is my issue. I need a truck that can pull a 6000lb 26' long Airstream and not need to charge every 150 km because the infrastructure for that doesn't exist here yet. If my ice chevy can hold out another two years or so I think I'll be entering a more mature market that will have less headaches for me.
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Then my comment wasn't directed at you. Kinda wild how everyone turns into a farmer from bumfuck Ohio at the very mention of how goofy trucks are.
Doesn't distract from the fact that the number of people that have an actual use for a truck is vanishingly small.
I do agree that the tech/head unit is the main thing that makes a car feel dated. Like all the early cars with screens/navigation/whatever from the mid-2000's or so, which sometimes feel even more dated than the base models with no screens.
However I think the majority of people will just deal with it as long as it works properly. And this will be more of a problem for higher end cars where you do everything through a touch screen, and those people upgrade cars more often anyway.
Oh wow. Core memory unlocked! I haven't seen that in years. The wild days of early youtube.
Theres a big rumor that the new electric Ram when its unveiled will have a 500 mile range. I'm waiting for that. Hope its true. We love long road trips.
Gonna need a battery as big as the Hummer EV's to pull that off and it's not gonna come cheap.
They'll have to do something like that to turn heads since they'll be 2 years behind everyone else to market. The Chevy has larger range than the Ford but batteries aren't free so I expect the price to be higher accordingly.