-
Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
-
We have made minor adjustments to how the search bar works on ResetEra. You can read about the changes here.
The Ultimate Question: Devil May Cry 3 vs Devil May Cry 5?
- Thread starter bar_bar12
- Start date
His scenes are brilliant. It always seemd to me his personality is a perfect mix of 1 and 3.
DMC3 is much better. 5 is fantastic when it comes to fighting, but the level design sucks, the boss fights aren't as good and the story is really bad.
First: I think it's a little unfair to compare 3:SE to base DMC5.
But to answer the question: DMC3:SE is the better overall package. I know combat is far superior in 5, but 3 has more that makes it feel complete and more replayable (playable Vergil anyone?). Not to mention the atmosphere and level variety is better in 3; 5 felt too samey after you reach the Qliphoth.
But to answer the question: DMC3:SE is the better overall package. I know combat is far superior in 5, but 3 has more that makes it feel complete and more replayable (playable Vergil anyone?). Not to mention the atmosphere and level variety is better in 3; 5 felt too samey after you reach the Qliphoth.
If I could only choose 1, it's DMC 3. I like the level design better, and the story. They made the level design way too linear in DMC 5 IMO, except some of the stages where you're in the Qliphoth. They should've made more use of alternative routes. Use a PC mod with style switching on DMC 3 and you're all set to go.
This isn't the vibe I got from that character at all, unless you're judging with V and Urizen, which is dubious
The game states that all Vergil wanted to do with the power he was chasing all these years was to use it to kill Dante because he thought Eva loved Dante more and abandoned Vergil when demons attacked on that faithful night.
So for him to kill thousands if not millions of people throughout the years just because mommy didn't love him enough pretty much destroys his character for me.
So for him to kill thousands if not millions of people throughout the years just because mommy didn't love him enough pretty much destroys his character for me.
They changed Vergil's motive, that's the problem.
In 3 it was assumed, Vergil suffers from guilt of not being strong enough to save Eva. And fear of not being strong enough to prevent something similar in the future. That's why he seeks Sparda's sword. With the power of the strongest demon, that could overthrow Mundus, he wouldn't have to fear anything anymore.
Dante and Vergil both suffer from the same trauma, but fight it in different ways. While Dante is out for revenge, Vergil seeks strength to protect himself (and others). That what's brings them at odds, but both don't really want to kill each other, even during 3.
In the end, when everything is lost, Vergil accepts his wrongdoings and stays in hell. He chose the path of the demon and can't just go back with Dante, as if nothing has happened.
In 5 it is all about the false thought that Eva abandoned him during the attack. She prefered Dante over him. This way he hates his brother (and Eva somewhat), that is the only reason why he wants to defeat him, and that is his only reason to seek Sparda's sword. And all the stuff he does in 5. And that is not really a good look to begin with.
It is also implied that he was never able to feel remorse. Only as V he saw something wrong in his previous actions.
But still he chose to betray everyone and everything to merge back with Urizen and raise his sword against Dante again.
Dante and Vergil both suffer from the same trauma, but fight it in different ways. While Dante is out for revenge, Vergil seeks strength to protect himself (and others). That what's brings them at odds, but both don't really want to kill each other, even during 3.
In the end, when everything is lost, Vergil accepts his wrongdoings and stays in hell. He chose the path of the demon and can't just go back with Dante, as if nothing has happened.
In 5 it is all about the false thought that Eva abandoned him during the attack. She prefered Dante over him. This way he hates his brother (and Eva somewhat), that is the only reason why he wants to defeat him, and that is his only reason to seek Sparda's sword. And all the stuff he does in 5. And that is not really a good look to begin with.
It is also implied that he was never able to feel remorse. Only as V he saw something wrong in his previous actions.
But still he chose to betray everyone and everything to merge back with Urizen and raise his sword against Dante again.
V is what Vergil could have been if he didn't take the path of hate. He basically lived his life in a different way for a while and learned to appreciate it in a new light, especially since he thought he might die. He even built a friendship with Nero.
And he doesn't just get back with Urizen and go on attacking Dante.
He had the choice of dying (both V and Urizen) or getting back his old self. The choice seems obvious.
Dante was also the first one to attack. After Vergil comes back, the first thing he does is pick up the book of poetry and look at it, at which point Dante rushes in for an attack. Only then Vergil engages. And when he leaves he thanks Nero. So you can already see how his time as V has changed him, he isn't the same person.
The killer intent and lust for power and revenge is pretty much gone but that's the problem, that's all he built his life around as Vergil.
And then Nero fits in perfectly between the two of them and ends their rivalry. It was all really well done.
And he doesn't just get back with Urizen and go on attacking Dante.
He had the choice of dying (both V and Urizen) or getting back his old self. The choice seems obvious.
Dante was also the first one to attack. After Vergil comes back, the first thing he does is pick up the book of poetry and look at it, at which point Dante rushes in for an attack. Only then Vergil engages. And when he leaves he thanks Nero. So you can already see how his time as V has changed him, he isn't the same person.
The killer intent and lust for power and revenge is pretty much gone but that's the problem, that's all he built his life around as Vergil.
And then Nero fits in perfectly between the two of them and ends their rivalry. It was all really well done.
It was a great way to finish the story started in DMC3.
Last edited:
They are still better than the endless linear tree roots of DMC 5 in the lass 4-5 missions.
Vergil wants to prove himself "better" than Dante, and the new expansion on what he felt about his mother means he's definitely jealous of him, but hate him? Just wants to kill him? That's not the vibe I got. All the honorable warrior stuff wouldn't be there if he just wanted to kill Dante, he would've done it as soon as he was resurrected instead of giving him a chance to heal. And all the stuff he did in 5 was because he had been tortured, brainwashed, and was dying. In 3 he raised the Temini-gru himself, but the raising of the Qlipoth was done by the literal embodiment of all his worst traits. And it's from that separation that he, as V can see where an endless pursuit of power takes you. He is noticeably different after his return, and that's from V.
DMC3:SE was my favorite action game ever, until DMCV came out. I absolutely adore Nero, he plays as well as Dante. Having two different characters to masters is amazing. I don't care much for V, though. The only two things that DMCV is missing to be perfect are 1. Agni & Rudra and 2. Playable Vergil.
Totally agree on Dante; he'd be another problem I have with 5.
He's unusal hostile throughout the game, especially when you take into account, that he knows V and his whole story right from the beginning.
I think, 5 doesn't do itself a favour in hiding V's identity in general. They try to make a secret out of him and Urizen, and that restricts the actions of the characters. Without that hide and seek, the interactions between V and Dante could have been a lot more interesting, I'd say.
I think, 5 doesn't do itself a favour in hiding V's identity in general. They try to make a secret out of him and Urizen, and that restricts the actions of the characters. Without that hide and seek, the interactions between V and Dante could have been a lot more interesting, I'd say.
Fair enough, but that doesn't change that the starting point is kinda pitiful.
Vergil's logic isn't sound back and forth.
He was out there playing, Eva didn't know, where he was. He can't expect her to know. He also can't know she hid Dante. She could have abandoned them both. He was attacked on that playground, turning that into "Eva abandoned me" is kind of a reach to begin with.
On top of the tree the new Vergil thinks about their positions being switched. What that would have change. But actually not much.
They were both traumatized by the same thing. Both were hunted by demons and spend their life on the run. The only real difference is Dante being smart enough to hide his identity.
We have an idea of how different their personalities are and that they seemed to argue a lot as kids. But that sounds pretty normal for siblings. There is no clue that Eva really favoured one of them. We never see how bad the situation was between them. If he would have been neglected, I'd still stan for Vergil all day. But this way he's just stuck on a childish idea he never grew out of. Even more: A false idea.
That's just not a reasoning I can relate to and feel sympathy for, contrary to before.
He was out there playing, Eva didn't know, where he was. He can't expect her to know. He also can't know she hid Dante. She could have abandoned them both. He was attacked on that playground, turning that into "Eva abandoned me" is kind of a reach to begin with.
On top of the tree the new Vergil thinks about their positions being switched. What that would have change. But actually not much.
They were both traumatized by the same thing. Both were hunted by demons and spend their life on the run. The only real difference is Dante being smart enough to hide his identity.
We have an idea of how different their personalities are and that they seemed to argue a lot as kids. But that sounds pretty normal for siblings. There is no clue that Eva really favoured one of them. We never see how bad the situation was between them. If he would have been neglected, I'd still stan for Vergil all day. But this way he's just stuck on a childish idea he never grew out of. Even more: A false idea.
That's just not a reasoning I can relate to and feel sympathy for, contrary to before.
Ppl stating DMC3 had "color" and "stage variety" got me really confused
Maybe I don't remember the game well but I played it like 2 years ago lol
From what I've seen DMC5 is far more vibrant
Maybe I don't remember the game well but I played it like 2 years ago lol
From what I've seen DMC5 is far more vibrant
DMC5. I finished the HD version of 3 last year and the new combat blows the old out of the water due to being an evolution. The interconnected world of 3 is kinda interesting, the presentation and story are better but V plays better and has 3 distinct characters instead of 2 (and I am being generous). Can´t beat that.
I will admit that 5 feels like a PS3 game that could/should have released in 2013. Why that year? Well... Regardless. DMC is back. Let´s see if the Netflix toon is happening to fully cement this as a breathing franchise.
PS: The canon V manga is fairly solid btw. V > Virgil.
I will admit that 5 feels like a PS3 game that could/should have released in 2013. Why that year? Well... Regardless. DMC is back. Let´s see if the Netflix toon is happening to fully cement this as a breathing franchise.
PS: The canon V manga is fairly solid btw. V > Virgil.
Dante was being hostile because people in the city were getting the blood sucked out of them and dying and also because he wanted to finish the job quickly so Nero wouldn't have to kill Urizen/Vergil. He got knocked out for a month so a lot of time had already been wasted.
Hiding V's identity was the whole point. He was living a different life and could do and say things that he wouldn't have as Vergil.
Hiding V's identity was the whole point. He was living a different life and could do and say things that he wouldn't have as Vergil.
They literally say that the only reason he resurrected was because he wanted to kill Dante. They reconfirm that in V manga which is canon.
Also I think in DMC5 they are very upfront about Vergil wanting to beat Dante always being the reason that he wanted power. So he was jealous of him and was willing to kill a lot of innocent people if it meant he would be able to kill his own brother because mommy didn't love him enough.
I also don't think he should get a free pass for everything Urizen did because it was just his evil side. Vergil knew what he was doing when he stabbed himself and as long as it meant he would have a chance at killing Dante, he didn't care about anything else. So yea, everything Urizen did is on Vergil as well.
Also I think in DMC5 they are very upfront about Vergil wanting to beat Dante always being the reason that he wanted power. So he was jealous of him and was willing to kill a lot of innocent people if it meant he would be able to kill his own brother because mommy didn't love him enough.
I also don't think he should get a free pass for everything Urizen did because it was just his evil side. Vergil knew what he was doing when he stabbed himself and as long as it meant he would have a chance at killing Dante, he didn't care about anything else. So yea, everything Urizen did is on Vergil as well.
Level design of V is perfect, there is no stupid shit that hurts replays. Its just the locations aren't really varied enough during the second half.
I think you misunderstood me a little bit about the hiding?
V tells Dante everything upon hiring him, but it is we, the player, who is kept in the dark. They don't want us to know who V is, what limits their interactions.
Dante and V could have so much to talk about, especially if you go with V being Vergil's good side. There is a lot of stuff in the room they should talk about. But they aren't allowed to give away to the player that V is Vergil, so this isn't possible.
Dante also acts pretty hostile towards V, although he should know his good intentions. It seems weird for us, cause we can't follow his thinking. If we consider V a stranger, it seems unusual harsh how less Dante cares for him, when V clearly struggles. And even if we know he his Vergil, it's a bit strange too. The previous games showed that Dante, despite everything, did have feelings for his brother. And V is meant to be his good side. So it comes across a little strange that Dante acts so distant.
Dante and V could have so much to talk about, especially if you go with V being Vergil's good side. There is a lot of stuff in the room they should talk about. But they aren't allowed to give away to the player that V is Vergil, so this isn't possible.
Dante also acts pretty hostile towards V, although he should know his good intentions. It seems weird for us, cause we can't follow his thinking. If we consider V a stranger, it seems unusual harsh how less Dante cares for him, when V clearly struggles. And even if we know he his Vergil, it's a bit strange too. The previous games showed that Dante, despite everything, did have feelings for his brother. And V is meant to be his good side. So it comes across a little strange that Dante acts so distant.
I think the idea of Vergil not feeling strong enough to save his family and feeling resentment that Eva was with Dante and seemingly didn't look for Vergil (according to V he wasn't that far from the house playing, since they had a big aristocratic estate apparently) can both be true. We know that being twins made Vergil have issues with feeling like his own person, as well as feelings of possessiveness (instantly writing his name in the poetry book in the game files because he feels he has to mark things as his). They're childish feelings yeah, but they grew and festered until they became something destructive (like the poem at the start) And ultimately it feels like he ultimately overcomes those feelings
I disagree with that. "Kill" and "defeat" are pretty different feelings, and to me it feels like Vergil saw defeating Dante as motivation and actualization to keep from dying.
I'm also not saying he should get a free pass for what Urizen did, but he was desperate and misguided, and V is the one who makes an effort to contact Devil May Cry in order to defeat Urizen. So if you hold him responsible for what Urizen does you got to give him credit for what V does as well.
I'm also not saying he should get a free pass for what Urizen did, but he was desperate and misguided, and V is the one who makes an effort to contact Devil May Cry in order to defeat Urizen. So if you hold him responsible for what Urizen does you got to give him credit for what V does as well.
[/spoiler]
"Hostile"? When's he hostile? He leaves V in mission 11 because he's rushing to stop Nero from getting killed by or killing Urizen. He probably already knows V was on borrowed time so he tells him to get some rest. After that? In M13 V says he has to keep going to see it through and Dante is totally supportive of that. And when he beats Urizen he steps aside and let's V get the kill just on his word. Seems pretty not hostile to me.
No man, it seems you misunderstood. Dante didn't know.
When V hires Dante he just tells him that Urizen is Vergil. V doesn't tell him about himself. Just like he tells Nero that Urizen is actually Vergil and is Dante's brother, but doesn't tell Nero who he, V, actually is.
That's why Dante talks to Urizen as if he is Vergil in all of the cutscenes.
He only realizes what is happening at the last moment before V stabs Urizen and combines back.
That's why Dante talks to Urizen as if he is Vergil in all of the cutscenes.
He only realizes what is happening at the last moment before V stabs Urizen and combines back.
In DMC3 Vergil defeats Dante yet still tries to get more power. Urizen defeats Dante at the beginning of DMC5 and still wants more power. It is pretty clear that he wants Dante dead hence the whole if you never existed speech by V.
And no man, if you put a place on fire I'm not gonna pat you on the back when you call for help before the whole building burns down.
And no man, if you put a place on fire I'm not gonna pat you on the back when you call for help before the whole building burns down.
I really like how 5 showed Vergil as the loser he is instead of making him cool to appease his weird fans
Nah man, Dante knew this whole time. That's why he isn't surprised when V tries to kill him or says that he knows Dante can be stubborn. It's also why he doesn't let Trish talk about it when V tells her everything because he already knows the truth and doesn't want to bring up Vergil in front Nero. Dante knows who V is when Lady asks who that was but doesn't want to bring that up so he says that no one important, because of the history between Vergil and Arkham.
It's also why he lets V kill Urizen. Dante wouldn't just let a random person kill Vergil. The fact that he is letting V do it tells you that he knows. What he doesn't realize is the fact that V is joining up with Urizen to resurrect Vergil and only figures that out when he hears what V says to Urizen.
It's also why he lets V kill Urizen. Dante wouldn't just let a random person kill Vergil. The fact that he is letting V do it tells you that he knows. What he doesn't realize is the fact that V is joining up with Urizen to resurrect Vergil and only figures that out when he hears what V says to Urizen.
Nope.
Watch the mission 17 cutscenes and other cutscenes again.
Before he fights Urizen he tries to talk sense into him as if he were Vergil.
And after Urizen eats the apple Dante tells him that he lost his last bit of humanity. If he knew about V then he would know that V is the human part of Vergil and there is no point talking to Urizen.
If Dante knew who V was then he wouldn't have let him finish Urizen. Like mentioned, he only realized it at the last moment and then tried to stop it.
He instantly attacked both Urizen and Vergil when he saw them. The reason he treated V like a stranger throughout was because that was all V was to him.
And after Urizen eats the apple Dante tells him that he lost his last bit of humanity. If he knew about V then he would know that V is the human part of Vergil and there is no point talking to Urizen.
If Dante knew who V was then he wouldn't have let him finish Urizen. Like mentioned, he only realized it at the last moment and then tried to stop it.
He instantly attacked both Urizen and Vergil when he saw them. The reason he treated V like a stranger throughout was because that was all V was to him.
This stays true for all the cutscenes.
Played through the original Devil May Cry 3 three times, and the Special Edition two times.
Played through Devil May Cry 5 once, and I haven't felt any desire to return to it since...
For me, Devil May Cry 3 is the absolute peak of the series. On the other hand, whilst Devil May Cry 5 was enjoyable enough to play, it became somewhat forgettable over a course of time due to the lack of level variety, uninteresting bosses (compared to the prior games) and a story that was kind of iffy/schlocky.
Also I wasn't overly keen on 'V' either.
The best thing about Devil May Cry 5 is those visuals at 60fps — very impressive stuff indeed!
Played through Devil May Cry 5 once, and I haven't felt any desire to return to it since...
For me, Devil May Cry 3 is the absolute peak of the series. On the other hand, whilst Devil May Cry 5 was enjoyable enough to play, it became somewhat forgettable over a course of time due to the lack of level variety, uninteresting bosses (compared to the prior games) and a story that was kind of iffy/schlocky.
Also I wasn't overly keen on 'V' either.
The best thing about Devil May Cry 5 is those visuals at 60fps — very impressive stuff indeed!
This is the same debate we have with KH2:FM being better than KH3.
Like, these special editions/final mixes should be the standard for base games going forward.
"It's unfair to compare KH2FM to 3, vanilla KH2 makes more sense" why? You're willingly lowering the standard the devs themselves set.
that said I think it's less egregious in DMC5 because the game still has three fully playable different characters, but still
Man I completely disagree. I honestly just don't see it that way.
That's fine but then you'd be disagreeing with all the cutscenes in the game. In each scene Dante talks to Urizen as if he is Vergil.
What V told Dante when hiring him is exactly what he told Nero after the Malphas fight.
Last edited:
5 should be better than 3, but it's not. the weaknesses it has still have it not surpassing 3 in some really key factors, which are mostly related to the pacing of the game (and story, as a result) - the 20 mission structure probably should've been expanded to like 30 or something to allow for more visual variety in levels alongside letting the characters breathe much more gameplay-wise. dante's literal last mission before you go into a sequence of bossfight stages is a tutorial for SDT. it's insane!
there are pretty big design specifics that make dmc5 have general worse 'gamefeel' or whatever than 3, which is really unfortunate because 3 just feels so goddamn good to do basic actions in. these kinda things transfer over to high-level play as well, but that's a very specific and small niche that wouldn't have much say to begin with in terms of 'feedback'.
the other half of it is that the enemy encounters in 5 are pretty weak. even the dmd layouts are lacking quite a bit in terms of being fun to play around, which in turn makes the larger rooms/arenas much more boring as well vs. the very packed in-range combat of most of the combat rooms in dmc3.
these kinda things just add up, chipping away at what dmc5 feels like it should've been - the theoretical end-all be-all of dmc games in every category, rather than something that is ultimately close to dmc3's equal.
seriously though where the FUCK is free ride and alternate costumes and postgame unlocks aaaAAAAA
btw dante obviously knows that v is vergil from the getgo, pay attention to what he says before he gets DSD and think about why he would say that.
if you retrospectively look at everything he says to v, it's extremely obvious.
there are pretty big design specifics that make dmc5 have general worse 'gamefeel' or whatever than 3, which is really unfortunate because 3 just feels so goddamn good to do basic actions in. these kinda things transfer over to high-level play as well, but that's a very specific and small niche that wouldn't have much say to begin with in terms of 'feedback'.
the other half of it is that the enemy encounters in 5 are pretty weak. even the dmd layouts are lacking quite a bit in terms of being fun to play around, which in turn makes the larger rooms/arenas much more boring as well vs. the very packed in-range combat of most of the combat rooms in dmc3.
these kinda things just add up, chipping away at what dmc5 feels like it should've been - the theoretical end-all be-all of dmc games in every category, rather than something that is ultimately close to dmc3's equal.
seriously though where the FUCK is free ride and alternate costumes and postgame unlocks aaaAAAAA
btw dante obviously knows that v is vergil from the getgo, pay attention to what he says before he gets DSD and think about why he would say that.
if you retrospectively look at everything he says to v, it's extremely obvious.
Last edited:
As someone who enjoys the hack&slash genre very much, but doesn't get very deep combat wise, DMC3 pretty easily for me though I guess my nostalgia might make me susceptible to nostalgia. But DMC3 was an absolutely amazing game, DMC 5 is just an alright one. I kinda hate V sections, I was feeling Nero less than in DMC4, which left me with like only half or less of the game with Dante. The level design is just poor, the constant rehash of notVergil boss fights boring and lazy and the story isn't just bad, it's downright offensive so much that I was still laughing at it when the credits were rolling.
Really wish they kept the glass shattering enemy kill effect from 3 in 5 tho, that just makes it feel so crunchy to kill enemies and the sound effect is great too. Imagine that effect but high res in the RE engine.
DMC5. It's the pinnacle of the character action game genre and is something all character actions games should aspire to be with how deep the combat system is. Also DEVIL TRIGGER AND SILVER BULLET?!
Bayonetta 3 has some strong competition when it finally comes out.
Bayonetta 3 has some strong competition when it finally comes out.
I just started playing DMC5 & I already enjoy more than 3. & 3 was one of my favorite action games.
Yeah this is my take. If we can somehow add Nero to DMC3 we're set.