Rikalaus

Member
Oct 30, 2017
864
I remember speaking to someone in the UK about this process of paying for gas and it always baffled me that it was a pay as you go type system that you pay for at a shop instead of being directly billed.

Years ago me and my wife rented a property that had one of these pay as you go meters in whilst we were waiting for our purchase of our house, we were shocked how expensive these things could be compared to the normal billing per month type at the time (depending on the tariff, not sure what the landlord had at the time). We were glad we were only there 6 months, first year in our own house cost wise was a lot less than that 6 month period.
 

Ssyem

Member
Mar 15, 2022
934
This gives me flashbacks to my childhood. My single mum with three kids. Bailiffs at the door threatening and forcing their way in. Having to go to a family friend as an 8 year old to ask to borrow a tenner for gas because my mum was too embarrassed to face them.

No child should live that way. I ended up fine but most don't.

This was pre-Tories btw. There's rot at the heart of our institutions, it's not just a recent phenomenon.
 

Layla

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,960
Years ago me and my wife rented a property that had one of these pay as you go meters in whilst we were waiting for our purchase of our house, we were shocked how expensive these things could be compared to the normal billing per month type at the time (depending on the tariff, not sure what the landlord had at the time). We were glad we were only there 6 months, first year in our own house cost wise was a lot less than that 6 month period.

yeh I lived in a flat years ago that was all electric, it had a swipe card meter thing that was ridiculously expensive to run. plus finding a shop that sold the cards was a pain in the arse, especially on a Sunday. it became like living under rolling blackouts, buying just enough food for the fridge at a time to last until the electricity cut out.
needless burdens and pointless cruelty for the poorest in society, it's the British way
 

Yankee Ruin X

Member
Oct 31, 2017
2,799
This entire thing is fucking disgusting and there is no reason for it all apart from unchecked greed.

Peoples bills have increased x7.
On another occasion agents were sent by British Gas with a court warrant to force-fit a meter at the home of a young mother with a four-week-old baby. Her bills have risen sevenfold during the cost of living crisis.

Centrica report more than a x7 increase in profits.
Last month Centrica, the owner of British Gas, said it expects to report a more than sevenfold increase in net profits for last year after benefitting from volatile energy prices.

Shell out here posting not only record profits but one of the biggest profits for a British firm ever, they are taking us all for absolute mugs.

www.telegraph.co.uk

Shell posts one of biggest ever profits made by a British company - latest updates

Shell has more than doubled its annual profit to a record $39.
 

IpKaiFung

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,680
Wales
I love articles like this, client journalist believes they can affect change against the status quo.

All that will happen is Centrica saying they are sorry (for getting caught) and will continue to do so.

I think it is dishonest, or at the very least disingenuous, to look at these events, and not interrogate the decade or more of policy, and yes ideology, that has lead to them being so prevalent. The reporting in the OP would seem to indicate that these events seemingly occured independent of any wider systemic factor, or at most, were caused by the war in Ukraine and nothing else. Saying "It's so horrific that debt collectors are forcing people to freeze to death in their own homes" and not then follow through to "Why are energy companies incentivised to do this in the first place?" is not really doing journalism of real quality at all.

Precisely, its always "bad thing is happening" and no investigating or analysis about why that is happening. The best you can expect to happen is some token legislation, like allowing people not to be cut off but being forced to take out loans with high APRs to pay the energy cos.
 

Soap

Member
Oct 27, 2017
16,747
This has been well k own for at least a decade and many stories have been published and everytime the companies say it's not how they should do things and then when the heat is off they roll back any changes and do it again.

I could make an extremely long post about my view on energy companies, but I can't be bothered and I'll just sum it up by saying they are scum.
 

JoJo'sDentCo

Unshakable Resolve
Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,696
So you literally haven't read the article in the OP then.

Swear to god, shit like the person I quoted initially, and your response, are terrifying. Purely ideologically driven, ignores actual fact.
You're terrified because a couple posters don't actually believe that this is the end of this company's corruption?
 

FrakEarth

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,459
Liverpool, UK
I don't know how people go in to debt collection as a bailiff. Literally taking things away from society's most vulnerable. I'm sure we all know there are some people who take the piss, but this isn't isolated to the energy crisis, it happens all the time. I don't know how the fuck they live with themselves.
 

Deleted member 8579

Oct 26, 2017
33,843
What is the point of Ofgem, just a useless front for government and their mates. This country is literally going to snap.
 

Soap

Member
Oct 27, 2017
16,747
What is the point of Ofgem, just a useless front for government and their mates. This country is literally going to snap.
There is no point. There is nothing Ofgem can realistically do. It's not like Ofgem are going remove a trading licence from a company the size of British Gas so all that remains is a fine that barely touches the side of Centrica's profits.
 

IpKaiFung

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,680
Wales
the various regulators (ofgem, ofwat, ofcom etc.) are just there to give a degree of legitimacy to the companies doing shitty things.
 

PinkSpider

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,743
the various regulators (ofgem, ofwat, ofcom etc.) are just there to give a degree of legitimacy to the companies doing shitty things.
Having worked in the industry (npower SME retail); Ofgem do have a fair bit of power for complaints and I can guarantee on that front after being trained on complaints procedures being a senior reporting analyst in a previous life and having no customer contact and having to go through all the so many hours of training just in case we came into contact with a customer randomly it's drilled in and the reporting they track and try and keep complaints down (If the customer even sounds unsatisfied it's logged as a complaints).

I took Scottish Power down the complaints process (They outsource, don't follow process at all); raised it to Ofgem, was resolved in a couple of weeks and I got £75 compensation.

Price and unit price wise and debt process they are shit though as the processes are sadly legal.
 

FrakEarth

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,459
Liverpool, UK
the various regulators (ofgem, ofwat, ofcom etc.) are just there to give a degree of legitimacy to the companies doing shitty things.
maybe now.. historically ofcom have been critical in preventing us from turning in to a polarised media cess pool and having our own Fox News etc.

The tories stuffed a Tory peer in to Ofcom to chair it, but they still have quite a broad representation of industry and business people on the board
www.ofcom.org.uk

Ofcom Board

Ofcom's Board provides strategic direction for the organisation.

I can think of a couple of occasions when they've been ok in recent years -- Tories were crying about the PM being replaced with an ice sculpture during a climate change debate he refused to attend, but ofcom threw out their complaints etc.

You certainly have to question whose side Ofgem are on these days though. I got an email from Scottish Power yesterday that starts with the words:

"You may have heard that wholesale energy prices have fallen recently from the record highs of last year"

and then proceeds to explain why our prices will still rise in April and stay that way for all of 2023. Potentially even rising. Westminster are fucking useless.
 

Dis

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,124
I remember speaking to someone in the UK about this process of paying for gas and it always baffled me that it was a pay as you go type system that you pay for at a shop instead of being directly billed.

Not always the case, I would pay gas monthly/3 monthly at my old house by direct billing like I would electricity. My new house is only electricity so I don't pay for gas anymore but the meter system with pay cards/smart meter apps isn't the only way, it's just a way that costs far more than paying monthly and a method that is forced onto poorer families who miss payments because "fuck your for being poor and needing heating".

I remember my mum was forced onto one of these meters for electricity when I was a kid and it was a fucking nightmare of "oops forgot to top up the meter so we have no power for a while" despite having 4 disabled kids living in the house. Even though they'd not automatically cut it overnight (when I was younger it was like 8pm until 8am during half the year and 9pm until 9am the other half) they'd still expect you to pay for that usage overnight when you topped up before letting any credit you added to the meter be used for new usage, which fucking sucked.
 

PinkSpider

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,743
Just reading the article; it's a DCA that other suppliers use too so bet this isn't just limited to British Gas. They also will have had reports at each stage of the process and will have reporting on this. The owner of them probably wouldn't know but the DCA teams certainly would.
Not always the case, I would pay gas monthly/3 monthly at my old house by direct billing like I would electricity. My new house is only electricity so I don't pay for gas anymore but the meter system with pay cards/smart meter apps isn't the only way, it's just a way that costs far more than paying monthly and a method that is forced onto poorer families who miss payments because "fuck your for being poor and needing heating".

I remember my mum was forced onto one of these meters for electricity when I was a kid and it was a fucking nightmare of "oops forgot to top up the meter so we have no power for a while" despite having 4 disabled kids living in the house. Even though they'd not automatically cut it overnight (when I was younger it was like 8pm until 8am during half the year and 9pm until 9am the other half) they'd still expect you to pay for that usage overnight when you topped up before letting any credit you added to the meter be used for new usage, which fucking sucked.
I think most people are on monthly/quarterly direct debit based on meter reads or estimated consumption based on past read history.

Pre payment meters are forced on to the poorer sadly and stupidly cost more. Used to have a poorer mate with one and sometimes he'd run out of power and not have any money till universal credit day so sometimes would sit in the cold/dark flat with nothing to do. Spent a fair bit of time at mine to keep warm and not go insane.
 

StereoVSN

Member
Nov 1, 2017
13,620
Eastern US
This is insanity to me, and I live in US (or the place where shit like this is generally worse). And OF COURSE the fucking parent company profits are sevenfold.

Shell, Exxon, Chevron, BP all reported tremendous profits while not increasing spending on production or employees (haha), or anything but paying huge bonuses to execs and buying back stock/paying out dividends.

And yet natural gas / gasoline / etc prices are only high due to "global markets", war in Ukraine, etc...
 

Dis

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,124
I think most people are on monthly/quarterly direct debit based on meter reads or estimated consumption based on past read history.

Pre payment meters are forced on to the poorer sadly and stupidly cost more. Used to have a poorer mate with one and sometimes he'd run out of power and not have any money till universal credit day so sometimes would sit in the cold/dark flat with nothing to do. Spent a fair bit of time at mine to keep warm and not go insane.

Not only that, but I have friends who aren't poor and move into houses they are renting and the meter can't be changed over for free to a normal monthly/3 monthly system and you have to actually pay to change it back iirc. So either the landlord will pay (yeah good luck I'd say) or you have to pay to just go back to a normal system and not get fucked harder by the energy companies. It's fucking awful for poorer folks and still awful for anyone who has to deal with that shit.
 

Torpedo Vegas

Member
Oct 27, 2017
23,905
Parts Unknown.
After being approached for comment, British Gas suspended the practice of force-fitting prepayment meters. It began an investigation into the "deeply concerning" findings, adding: "This is not who we are — it's not how we do business."

This bit is hilarious. I'm sure it was some entry level employee or middle manager who took it all on their own to implement this policy and most definitely didn't come from the top.
 

Unclebenny

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,779
I think it is dishonest, or at the very least disingenuous, to look at these events, and not interrogate the decade or more of policy, and yes ideology, that has lead to them being so prevalent. The reporting in the OP would seem to indicate that these events seemingly occured independent of any wider systemic factor, or at most, were caused by the war in Ukraine and nothing else. Saying "It's so horrific that debt collectors are forcing people to freeze to death in their own homes" and not then follow through to "Why are energy companies incentivised to do this in the first place?" is not really doing journalism of real quality at all.

What the fuck is this?

This is good reporting, exposing shit practices, using evidence and difficult undercover work. Potentially dangerous too, don't think this Alphonse guy is going to be happy being quoted here.

This is how you affect change, by detailing significant issues and the fallout from them.

You can't have an already long piece of investigative journalism also be a sprawling op-ed on the malaise of a decade of Tory rule.

There's no way to incorporate that sensibly. It's either a very well researched long form piece of journalism, involving lots of facts, figures and experts (that would be it's own piece or much more likely book), or it's a few throwaway lines that totally end up distracting from the timportant point because it's pure opinion.

This constant push for ideological purity from the left is barmy. Champion what is an important piece, rather than trying to undermine it because it comes from a publication you don't like.
 

Omoi

Member
May 7, 2019
1,391
What the fuck is this?

This is good reporting, exposing shit practices, using evidence and difficult undercover work. Potentially dangerous too, don't think this Alphonse guy is going to be happy being quoted here.

This is how you affect change, by detailing significant issues and the fallout from them.

You can't have an already long piece of investigative journalism also be a sprawling op-ed on the malaise of a decade of Tory rule.

There's no way to incorporate that sensibly. It's either a very well researched long form piece of journalism, involving lots of facts, figures and experts (that would be it's own piece or much more likely book), or it's a few throwaway lines that totally end up distracting from the timportant point because it's pure opinion.

This constant push for ideological purity from the left is barmy. Champion what is an important piece, rather than trying to undermine it because it comes from a publication you don't like.

Righto mate, those baliffs just spontaneously appeared out of thin air and kicked those doors in I suppose.

The CEO of British gas can act surprised that his company is acting according to their existing policy, promise to change it for the 10th time, wait for it to blow over, and go back to doing it again.

If the bar for "idelogical purity" is daring to ask the question "Ok.. so.. what do you want to do about this problem?" Then, well... guilty as charged I suppose.
 

Ocean Bones

Avenger
Oct 29, 2017
4,797
Reading that had me fucking raging.

"When there is no answer, the locksmith gets to work. "This is the exciting bit. I love this bit," Alfonso says."

So exciting! Children and families freezing how fun.

I'd love for these clowns to show up to my home.

Folks have to start fighting back against trash like this.
 

Unclebenny

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,779
Righto mate, those baliffs just spontaneously appeared out of thin air and kicked those doors in I suppose.

The CEO of British gas can act surprised that his company is acting according to their existing policy, promise to change it for the 10th time, wait for it to blow over, and go back to doing it again.

If the bar for "idelogical purity" is daring to ask the question "Ok.. so.. what do you want to do about this problem?" Then, well... guilty as charged I suppose.

Under what circumstance is that the fault of the Times? How are they not holding British Gas to account by writing a damning front page expose on their incredibly dodgy dealings.

Like, no one is doubting that the powerful rarely face consequences but you are actively suggesting that actual important investigative reporting that literally improved the situation is somehow a bit shit and not worth our time.

Rather than helping you are just feeding your own narcissism while dismissing something that has actually improved the situation.

Rather than dismissing this reporting and asking incredibly open ended questions, why don't praise the actual results that this article has ended in?
 

Unclebenny

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,779

Centrica suspends forced installations of pre-pay meters in UK

Add to this that OFGEM has launched an investigation into British Gas and the energy minister is also meeting with British Gas to demand an explanation.

What will be the end results? I don't know, hopefully this will at least lead to more care taken over the court judgements over such cases. That's a material improvement.

But, you and the person I originally responded to don't care about that. You just want to dismiss the entire endeavour unless.... what exactly? The Times writes an article that solves fuel poverty?

I totally get being dismissive of the dodgy systems we find ourselves entwined but the answer isn't just to dismiss anything but total revolution because that's just not going to happening.
 

bionic77

Member
Oct 25, 2017
31,253
That is horrible all around.

I don't understand how you could do that for a living. Breaking into a family's home and taking away their heat. I would just have to find another job the minute I saw some mother holding onto her baby knowing I was going to torture them by taking away their heat.
 

cjelly

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,507
Yeah, this is digusting.

It's also worth remembering if you have a Smart Meter they can turn it into prepayment mode remotely. So you could literally wake up one day and have no gas or electric without topping up.
 

PinkSpider

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,743
Yeah, this is digusting.

It's also worth remembering if you have a Smart Meter they can turn it into prepayment mode remotely. So you could literally wake up one day and have no gas or electric without topping up.
Is that functionality on? I remember in the SME/B2B space (non residential) there were talks of remote disconnection but nothing had gone through (I left the industry August 2021 and didn't really get involved in things like that but we'd of probably had to report on it and I kept my ear to the ground on industry stuff).

Still putting off getting a smart meter but Octopus are bugging me and I suspect my tariff reflects the fact they want me to have one (All suppliers have massive targets with fines for the rollout).
 

firehawk12

Member
Oct 25, 2017
25,967
Not always the case, I would pay gas monthly/3 monthly at my old house by direct billing like I would electricity. My new house is only electricity so I don't pay for gas anymore but the meter system with pay cards/smart meter apps isn't the only way, it's just a way that costs far more than paying monthly and a method that is forced onto poorer families who miss payments because "fuck your for being poor and needing heating".

I remember my mum was forced onto one of these meters for electricity when I was a kid and it was a fucking nightmare of "oops forgot to top up the meter so we have no power for a while" despite having 4 disabled kids living in the house. Even though they'd not automatically cut it overnight (when I was younger it was like 8pm until 8am during half the year and 9pm until 9am the other half) they'd still expect you to pay for that usage overnight when you topped up before letting any credit you added to the meter be used for new usage, which fucking sucked.
Was this system designed basically to target the poor? At least here you can't just get cut off in the middle of a billing cycle... thinking about gas or electrity on a day to day basis feels like a nightmare.
 

Dis

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,124
Was this system designed basically to target the poor? At least here you can't just get cut off in the middle of a billing cycle... thinking about gas or electrity on a day to day basis feels like a nightmare.

I'm going to say yes, mostly because the idea of these meters is to get money back on debt owed. When you owe a debt they don't just throw the meter in so you can't rack up more debt for your own well-bring but instead but the meter itself charges you more each week to pay the debt. So you have to top up more than just what you use to actually have gas/electricity while your debt is being paid off.

The fact this shit is legal and forced on customers is a clear sign that it's designed as a way to "protect" energy corps profits at the cost of the actual lives it's effecting. Yes (at least when I was a teenager not sure now) they don't shut it off overnight even if you run out of money on the meter, but that doesn't mean much when days are cold as fuck in the uk winter still and it doesn't help that you then have to pay for what is used over that night when you top up again. It's honestly one of the most annoying and god awful systems I've had to deal with and I hope one day changes happen to stop this shit being forced so heavily on people who are barely making it by.
 

IpKaiFung

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,680
Wales
But, you and the person I originally responded to don't care about that. You just want to dismiss the entire endeavour unless.... what exactly? The Times writes an article that solves fuel poverty?

I totally get being dismissive of the dodgy systems we find ourselves entwined but the answer isn't just to dismiss anything but total revolution because that's just not going to happening.

Where exactly did I dismiss the endeavour? I just said it will be business as usual in a few months.

The boss will feign ignorance or at worse leave with a good pay off.

Meanwhile, all the people who had pre-pay meters installed will still have to be on them, if they haven't been completely fucked by now.

This has been going on for years and there have been the odd article and programme here and there but the media on the whole will persecute poor people and occasionally commission puff pieces like this to make them look fair, balanced and even handed.