Plum

Member
May 31, 2018
17,386
Now that I think about it the fact that Rian Johnson's next movie after TLJ was a murder mystery is really ironic because now everyone's trying to figure out who killed Star Wars.

Was it the toxic fanbase in the parlour with the letter opener? Was it Kathleen Kennedy in the dining hall with the mallet? Or was it Rian Johnson in the servant's quarters with the butcher knife?

I guess we'll never really know.
 

TheXbox

Prophet of Truth
Member
Oct 29, 2017
6,637
What a bummer. I like TFA and TLJ, but this will tarnish the legacy of the sequel trilogy.
 

TyraZaurus

Member
Nov 6, 2017
4,489
Maybe, but given the way this trilogy has been managed up at her level it's also understandable. The ST has not been handled well at all, and you only need look at the incoherence of the three films side by side to see the evidence of that.

She bungled it, plain and simple.

Most franchises would kill to be this successful. The fact they're as self aware as they have been about missteps is actually a point in their favor.

Honestly, this is all fan myopia. Kathleen Kennedy is a Hollywood powerhouse, and this will not even come close to sinking her. Get some perspective.
 

Alienous

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,651
In a perfect world, they course correct AGAIN and immediately let Rian Johnson get his trilogy going for the next major releases.

But in the real world, we're probably going to get Star Wars VI.5 starring Sebastian Stan as Luke Skywalker doing his thing pre-TFA.

Surely Solo and TROS will have shown Disney that nostalgia is a well you can run dry.

The reception to this should strengthen the desire to do something challenging and new. I think they can feel the ice cracking underfoot wherever they stand at the point.
 

spootime

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
3,452
Now that I think about it the fact that Rian Johnson's next movie after TLJ was a murder mystery is really ironic because now everyone's trying to figure out who killed Star Wars.

Was it the toxic fanbase in the parlour with the letter opener? Was it Kathleen Kennedy in the dining hall with the mallet? Or was it Rian Johnson in the servant's quarters with the butcher knife?

I guess we'll never really know.

Opening week box office will reveal if the TLJ effect is real
 

Fatoy

Member
Mar 13, 2019
7,315
Putting the RottenTomatoes score in the OP title, if the true score, is a dick move for those who have gone on media blackout for this event. So thanks dick.
I don't understand this at all. Can people not see things and make up their own minds even AFTER reading reviews? That's the way film criticism has worked since films were invented.
 

Moist_Owlet

Banned
Dec 26, 2017
4,148
Lol 2019 continues to be a shit year for video games, movies and tv. Never thought I would see game of thrones and star wars die in the same year.
 

btkadams

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,345
Wow I'm pretty surprised. I'm glad I wasn't super hyped for this. I feel kind of bad for some people I know.

although, if it has lots of pandering, they will probably like it. that's what I hated about TFA though, so I guess I'm fucked lol.
 

Prine

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
15,724
And whole lot more. During the middle of the trilogy you have an opportune time to explore elements like Knights of Ren, "These are your first steps" lightsaber vision, more info on how First Order got as dominant as it did (still no explanation, unlike the Empire or Republic), but instead that was used on a shitty Canto Bight sequence.
 

Gold Arsene

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
30,757
Now that I think about it the fact that Rian Johnson's next movie after TLJ was a murder mystery is really ironic because now everyone's trying to figure out who killed Star Wars.

Was it the toxic fanbase in the parlour with the letter opener? Was it Kathleen Kennedy in the dining hall with the mallet? Or was it Rian Johnson in the servant's quarters with the butcher knife?

I guess we'll never really know.
Must be hard trying to solve a murder when no ones even dead.

"Killed Star Wars" lord give me strength.
 

vaderise

Member
Oct 30, 2017
1,955
Antalya / Turkey
Wha?

Closed any resolution for Phasma and Finn, killed Luke, reduced the entirety of the resistance to twenty people, narrows Rey and Ben to literally "person in while outfit good, person in black outfit bad", removes the antagonist, removes any romantic tension with Finn and Rey, etc etc etc.

Even if you like TLJ, it absolutely writes the trilogy into a corner where you've got to try and establish a new credible villain and set up some kind of chemistry between the three primary protagonists. That's a LOT to do.
Phasma was already a joke in TFA.
Luke is a Jedi so killing him ultimately means he can still do some shit so he still can have huge presence.
Resistance was always supposed to be a small military group, rather than the army side of New Republic. Starkiller Base destroying New Republic was to ensure that.
Ben is SUPPOSED to be the main antogonist of this trilogy, movie gave him a decent arc to solidify his position as a villain.
Romantic tension between Finn and Rey was never seemed to be a thing since Rey never showed any interest at him romantically etc.
 

Tace

Avenger
Nov 1, 2017
35,955
The Rapscallion
Gotta say, reading the reviews are at least entertaining!

Time: "This overloaded finale, directed by J.J. Abrams, is for everybody and nobody, a movie that's sometimes reasonably entertaining but that mostly feels reverse-engineered to ensure that the feathers of the Star Wars purists remain unruffled. In its anxiety not to offend, it comes off more like fanfiction than the creation of actual professional filmmakers. A bot would be able to pull off a more surprising movie."

Slate: "The Rise of Skywalker gives people what they go to Star Wars for, but that's all it does—and worse, all it sets out to do. It's frenzied, briefly infuriating, and eventually, grudgingly, satisfying, but it's like being force-fed fandom: Your belly is filled, but there's no pleasure in the meal. The movie feels like it's part of the post–Last Jedi retrenchment, when Disney jerked the leash on Solo and killed plans for future spinoffs by insisting that filmmakers stick to the established playbook. It's of a piece with the pointedly unambitious The Mandalorian, just good enough to get people's attention but fundamentally terrified of rocking the boat. Rather than making a movie some people might love, Abrams tried to make a movie no one would hate, and as a result, you don't feel much of anything at all"

TheWrap: " Rest assured that there's nothing in this final "Star Wars" that would prompt the eye-rolls or the snickers of Episodes I-III; Abrams is too savvy a studio player for those kinds of shenanigans. But his slick delivery of a sterling, shiny example of what Martin Scorsese would call "not cinema" feels momentarily satisfying but ultimately unfulfilling. It's a somewhat soulless delivery system of catharsis, but Disney and Abrams are banking on the delivery itself to be enough."

EntertainmentWeekly: " There's always been a secret cynicism underpinning Abrams' Star blockbusters, which adrenalize the pop-est culture of his youth and avoid anything requiring originality or imagination. Now he's left grasping for source material he hasn't already replicated — and one late montage even copies a sequence added into Return of the Jedi's 1997 Special Edition. We need a new franchise designation for this stumbling, bloodless conglomeration of What Once Was. Rise of the Skywalker isn't an ending, a sequel, a reboot, or a remix. It's a zombie."
 

Finale Fireworker

Love each other or die trying.
Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,739
United States
Maybe, but given the way this trilogy has been managed up at her level it's also understandable. The ST has not been handled well at all, and you only need look at the incoherence of the three films side by side to see the evidence of that.

She bungled it, plain and simple.

I guess. But she also oversaw a 2 billion dollar movie followed up two 1 billion dollar movies in succession. The Mandolorian is also Disney's definitive streaming show. The brand is bigger than ever. I can't imagine Disney is displeased with that. TFA and TLJ are also immensely popular movies that people love intensely, even if the latter has haters.

It sounds to me like her biggest misstep is this movie. That and not trusting Lord and Miller to make Solo.
 

Ryan.

Prophet of Truth
The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
13,041
Makes sense that this is the time people take RT and reviews in general seriously after saying they don't matter after TLJ was reviewed well critically.

tenor.gif
 
Oct 27, 2017
17,973
The fan backlash is going to be really bad. The movie may have a large drop off after the first week.

I wonder what the course correction after this will be. Hopefully they don't fire Kathleen Kennedy.
While whatever 2nd-week drop-off occurs will be interesting to see, even people luke-warm (heh) or soured on this have said on twitter they haven't been able to process everything and will need to see it again. There will be a fair amount of hate-watching as well, IMO.
 

UnknownSpirit

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,150
Everyone saying KK should be fired, she is probably about to have another billion dollar film under her belt as well. It's a mis-step. Shit happens. DC is JUST now finding their own footing after two massive ones.

Disney has made their money back and then some. I doubt Iger is sitting outside her office with security guards.
 

GuEiMiRrIRoW

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
3,530
Brazil
I got the first showing today and would agree mostly, I thought it was the worst of the new movies.

People weren't happy with that Leia scene in TLJ, even people who liked the movie and Rise has more and imo worse scenes in similar fashion.

It won't destroy Star Wars, but JJ as always is style over substance.

the kojima of cinema... i have said this for a long... long time...
 

TyraZaurus

Member
Nov 6, 2017
4,489
Also Dave Filoni is a creative guy. Being head of Lucasfilm is about more than just having good ideas. It's about knowing Hollywood, and delegating many responsibilities. Being able to contribute to a couple TV shows at a time doesn't really come CLOSE to matching Kennedy's decades long career and experience working in the trenches of the film industry. Kevin Feige, too, cut his teeth on producing/consulting on Marvel films before he became head of Marvel studios, and even then, it took an almost two decades long career doing that and more to be given a responsibility anywhere close to Kennedy's as the head of Marvel entirely.

I like Filoni. He's a great creator. But he's not up to the task of managing Lucasfilm. There's quite a few people I'd put weeeeeeeeell ahead of him to take that job, in fact.
 

nomemorial

Member
Oct 27, 2017
542
The funny thing about SW discourse online is that I always forget how far it doesn't reach.

Working in offices for years where I see random folks with SW memorabilia on their desks and overhearing chit-chat about the new films reminds me that a very large portion of the fanbase, a portion that exceeds people on forums and Twitter and such, really just enjoy whatever comes out with the Star Wars title.

I would ask people with a random Vader coffee mug or SW calendar what they thought of the new movies and every time, without fail, it was positive. As much as I tend to delve a bit deeper, those things really just make me wish I could kinda settle into that headspace and just have fun with it all, but alas.
 

Deleted member 176

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
37,160
While whatever 2nd-week drop-off occurs will be interesting to see, even people luke-warm (heh) or soured on this have said on twitter they haven't been able to process everything and will need to see it again. There will be a fair amount of hate-watching as well, IMO.
Yup. I was uninsterted until the leaks, and now with the reviews backing them up I told all my friends we gotta buy tix