The real reason VR and streaming wont break through: they're for first world people

[Ferrio]

Even if i had all the money in the world its just not for me. I want to sit back with a control or kb/m , I dont want to be wearing some brick on my face sweating out and being sick, swinging about the room like some crusader. Also whats up with this floaty hand shit in Vr games can someone explain the reason theres no arms ?

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There's no tracking for your arms, so they won't be accurate to your real position in game. Some games try to estimate where they're at, but it can get buggy and silly really quickly. You're less likely to notice the lack of something than something being extremely wrong like your arm bent in some unnatural way.

 

[Faithless]

VR is just superfluous

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It's OK to be wrong. Just try it ONCE.

Some people will buy an iphone, others a VR system, it's a choice, plain and simple.
Also, basically everything in life is luxury except a home, foods and health.

 

[Kotze282]

New technology becomes more affordable the more people buy into it, news at 11.

 

[texhnolyze]

I only play a handful of games on my console.

 

[DAHGAMING]

There's no tracking for your arms, so they won't be accurate to your real position in game. Some games try to estimate where they're at, but it can get buggy and silly really quickly. You're less likely to notice the lack of something than something being extremely wrong like your arm bent in some unnatural way.

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Thanks, I guess that will come in later VR tech.

 

[Windu]

It will get cheaper over time....

 

[sauce]

I'm more of a console gamer myself so I wouldn't know much about the steam remote play service, let alone use it. I tried PS4 remote play to my phone one time though. The data drain was kinda unreasonable for me lol.

But I'm basing my post on what I see as recommended speeds for Stadia/xcloud even at 720p. A connection with a consistent down speed of about 10mb/s(that's recommended for these streaming services, iirc) or more is considered to be among higher end connections in my country with unlimited packages or even packages above 5gigs a month are priced way too high even for a person like me who's kinda privileged. They're pretty much used by only the super wealthy or upper class businesses. And it doesn't look like other service providers will show up anytime soon with good enough packages for streaming to become adopted by even a small minority of gamers in the country

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Ah okay, I see. Steam's remote play can work with as little as 3 mbps although it's probably not good for heavy games that way, but you can also run it without internet with LAN. Probably not a solution for you if you don't game on Steam at all though.

 

[Rosebud]

I see, thanks for the clarification. Just to get this out of the way, how much would a Quest, for instance, cost through an "unofficial" way?

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About R$ 3.500,00, which is $830. VR won't be popular here for some time

 

[HellofaMouse]

when wireless headsets are under 200$, and if we ever reach a point where vr games dont require 1500$+ rigs, and we get more killer apps than (potentially) alyx and astro bot, it will be successful. and i think we will get there someday. but right now, not gonna happen.

 

[spam musubi]

I somewhat agree with OP. I think the point is that as a gamer, we already have our preferred console or PC. Not all gamers can afford two or more gaming device.

If I had to choose between a PC, a console, or a VR device, it would either a PC or a console. And common people would prioritize gaming phones than a VR device.

I don't know why people are posting snarky replies here. There's a reason on why VR is not flying off the shelves. OP listed one of them and people feel like they are attacked or something.

I would also love to have a VR device someday, but that is on the very bottom of my priority in terms of my gaming hobby.

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The reason is because OP is trying to use non first world countries as an argument when people don't even have consoles for the most part. If not succeeding in those countries is the bar, consoles are considered a failure as well. All major technological innovations in gaming have been too expensive for third world countries. A lot of things that are the norm for gamers on this forum are still too expensive.

That plus the OP's moving of goalposts.

 

[Deleted member 21709]

Even if i had all the money in the world its just not for me. I want to sit back with a control or kb/m , I dont want to be wearing some brick on my face sweating out and being sick, swinging about the room like some crusader. Also whats up with this floaty hand shit in Vr games can someone explain the reason theres no arms ?

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Thanks, I guess that will come in later VR tech.

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It depends on the game.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2E30vb3bmMc

 

[Deleted member 227]

Why would anyone waste any time educating you? Except for the amusement of seeing you move the goalposts yet again, I guess.

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Literally the only goalpost that has been moved is that a headset can run a handful of incredibly low demanding games, but whatever is actually always pushed as the future of VR or what is the software intended to move the system, requires to run on dedicated hardware. How is this the gotcha you think it is? It isn't even addressing the point in question at all.

I've tried to point out that a topic about gaming in non first world countries is hilariously ignorant about the status of gaming in said countries but OP called me moronic ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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I called it moronic because your question was moronic, next.

 

[Schreckweg 5000]

The argument against VR could have been written about HDTV 20 years ago.

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I'm biting on my tongue to not make a comment on nerds underestimating what a massive pull it is to be able to watch sports together

 

[Deleted member 227]

It's OK to be wrong. Just try it ONCE.

Some people will buy an iphone, others a VR system, it's a choice, plain and simple.
Also, basically everything in life is luxury except a home, foods and health.

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I have tried it.

 

[Kurt Russell]

About R$ 3.500,00, which is $830. VR won't be popular here for some time

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Damn, that really sucks. I got it to US$670 thanks to Amazon Europe (spain in this case) because they somehow can navigate our customs and we end up paying less than importing through other ways.

 

[Razor Mom]

I always laugh when people compare VR to 3D TVs. I've never met a soul who's actually tried VR that made that comparison. This really does just come across like OP doesn't like VR in general.

 

[Kurt Russell]

Literally the only goalpost that has been moved is that a headset can run a handful of incredibly low demanding games, but whatever is actually always pushed as the future of VR or what is the software intended to move the system, requires to run on dedicated hardware. How is this the gotcha you think it is? It isn't even addressing the point in question at all.



I called it moronic because your question was moronic, next.

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This is a lie. Please check the games available natively on Quest. With a few exceptions, they are literally the VR adoption drivers for PCVR. They are also far from "incredibly low demanding".

 

[AmFreak]

Lol at posting this in a console forum.

 

[DjDeathCool]

I do think VR on the PC is not in the affordable range for the majority of consumers currently.

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I really didn't want to post in here because OP is bad faith as fuck... but I just want to point out that PC gaming is not really affordable to the majority of consumers. I love my headset but it is nowhere near the most expensive part of my setup.

 

[Nzyme32]

Valve isn't even selling the Index here.

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It's PC, it's Valve - you can count on it supporting the open PC platform - as it does

And those aren't even all the headsets:


Will Half-Life's return be exclusive to VR? To Steam VR? To Valve Index?

Half-Life: Alyx is exclusive to VR, but not to Valve Index. We continue to believe strongly in the open PC platform, and it is our intention that Half-Life: Alyx is playable on any VR headset that connects to a gaming PC capable of running the game. If you have an HTC Vive, an Oculus Rift (or Quest with the Link cable), a Windows Mixed Reality headset — just to name a few — you can play Half-Life: Alyx. We put a lot of effort into making Valve Index the highest-fidelity VR solution on the market, and we think it's a great way to play the game, but it's absolutely not required.

 

[DrROBschiz]

400 for an Oculus quest with all its convenience as well as the ability to pair it with a PC should you decide to go that route is a hell of a bargain

I see both VR and Streaming having continued growth and potential over time despite setbacks

 

[copelandmaster]

The real reason telegraph and motion pictures wont break through: they're for first world people
The real reason sound motion pictures and television wont break through: they're for first world people
The real television games and the personal compter wont break through: they're for first world people
The real reason the internet and cell phones wont break through: they're for first world people
The real reason netflix and youtube wont break through: they're for first world people

Pretty flaccid, cold take. Could say that about most technology, especially early on in the medium. Yes, VR is a new entertainment medium like movies, radio, and tv were.

 

[TangFei]

The infrastructure required to actually make it pleasant and distribution of data centers isn't equal everywhere. It's true that the barrier to entry is low for it on paper, but it requires a lot of external factors to be in place.

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I agree because of latency issues people's internet will have to get better. But also, as VR gets more iterations it will get cheaper and cheaper. And as technology develops more for streaming it will require less and less bandwidth. I think broadband internet would be considered first world judging by OP.

 

[Deleted member 227]

The real reason telegraph and motion pictures wont break through: they're for first world people
The real reason sound motion pictures and television wont break through: they're for first world people
The real television games and the personal compter wont break through: they're for first world people
The real reason the internet and cell phones wont break through: they're for first world people
The real reason netflix and youtube wont break through: they're for first world people

Pretty flaccid, cold take. Could say that about most technology, especially early on in the medium.

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It could also have been written about 3D 10 years ago, and we all know how that went.
There's a big leap between something that actually has utility and something that's just for show off.

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[Mercador]

Though I have a VR headset since one year now and I still have doubts about the technology, I think it will become more and more affordable. There wasn't really a "system seller" type of game until, well, now. And even if Half Life is really popular in the gamer crowd, I'm not sure it's that popular enough to be a system seller game. We'll see.

 

[Arthands]

The bigger problem is that VR is also incredibly ablest towards the disable folks.





No it's not for disabled folks.

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You can apply that to many aspects of pc and console games too.

 

[Kurt Russell]

It could also have been written about 3D 10 years ago, and we all know how that went.
There's a big leap between something that actually has utility and something that's just for show off.

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That doesn't make your take any better... VR launched for real 3 years ago, it's definitely not going the same way as the 3D stuff you are using as a comparison. We already have many games that would only work in VR. That never happened with 3D.

 

[Deleted member 5853]

I kinda agree, OP.

As someone that'd honestly like to play HL:A, the cost to do so doesn't make sense for me. Assuming I spend $500 on PC components, I'd then have to pay another $400 for a device compatible with HL:A. While I'm sure HL:A will be good, I don't think it'll be $900 pre-tax good.

 

[copelandmaster]

.

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I used entertainment as examples, but VR has actual utility in enterprise business, medical, and telecommunication applications. 1st, 2nd, 3rd, whatever world countries or not.

This is just another FOMO thread/post.

 

[Armadilo]

It could also have been written about 3D 10 years ago, and we all know how that went.
There's a big leap between something that actually has utility and something that's just for show off.

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nobody needs a 4ktv but look we are already moving onto 8k soon

 

[Weltall Zero]

Literally the only goalpost that has been moved is that a headset can run a handful of incredibly low demanding games, but whatever is actually always pushed as the future of VR or what is the software intended to move the system, requires to run on dedicated hardware. How is this the gotcha you think it is? It isn't even addressing the point in question at all.

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Besides the fact that your entire thesis is based on VR being prohibitive due to the cost of the system plus the headset, how is being ignorant that the Occulus Quest is a standalone system not a huge gotcha and sign that you have absolutely no clue what you're even talking about? :D Perhaps more importantly, how do you expect anyone to take you seriously when instead of this being a humbling, reflecting experience for you, you instantly turn around and claim, with absolutely no basis whatsoever, that the games the Occulus plays are "not real games"? Games like fucking Moss, Beat Saber and SuperHOT? And this is besides the constant disingenuous behaviour like refusing to answer the perfectly relevant question of whether you're actually from a third world country. Hell, have you ever even tried VR?

Seriously, man: take the L, ask a mod to close the thread, and spare yourself further embarrassment before it's too late and you become memetic.

 

[Anthony Hopkins]

When many AAA great games come to VR is when you will see larger installbase, accessibility and price will also help.
Right now the many publishers and platform holders and not being bold enough.

E.G for PSVR to really set off, they need to be making VR games with same talent and resources as games like God of war, uncharted 4 etc, until they do that the numbers will be less then 10million.

 

[TheDoctor]

5G will bring game streaming to mobile first markets. It's not just if, but when. Microsoft, Google and Amazon are also investing in new cloud locations. Amazon for one will be opening new data centers in Indonesia and South Africa in the coming months.

The big challenge in countries like India won't be the infrastructure, it will be pricing. PUBG Mobile is massively popular, but Indian consumers aren't spending a lot on in-app purchases. A $60 game will be a tough sell. Spotify is gaining traction, but are offering their monthly subscription at 139 INR ($1.81). Indians can also buy daily ($0.18) or weekly ($0.55) premium passes.

 

[Carroway]

While there is a certain monetary issue associated with this, there are some far more practical issues, such as network caps, unstable internet connections for streaming and the the fact that not everyone can, and never will, have a large enough space to be able to set up a proper VR setup, and it doesn't seem like HL:Alyx only requires you to have a VR headset, but the entire thing, gloves and all, and I doubt most people would be willing to entirely redecorate their home, just to be able to play one game.

 

[Arthands]

when wireless headsets are under 200$, and if we ever reach a point where vr games dont require 1500$+ rigs, and we get more killer apps than (potentially) alyx and astro bot, it will be successful. and i think we will get there someday. but right now, not gonna happen.

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well, fortunately we have reached these points. let me know if you want to get the specs for the pc parts of a vr ready pc under $999, we can help

 

[DIE BART DIE]

It's funny that VR is essentially the embodiment of the phrase "greater than the sum of its parts". When you think about it, it's the combination of two older technologies which aimed to increase immersion in traditional media, which individually weren't that convincing:

1) Stereoscopic 3D, as used for 3D movies viewed on a screen from a distance.

2) Motion controls, as previously used for videogames played on a screen from a distance.

However, putting these two technologies together in a new context finally fulfils the potential of both and creates a third, entirely new experience.

 

[TaterTots]

It will become more affordable over time. If you actually take your time and shop around you can find some good deals now as well. I got the Samsung Odyssey revision today around $200. I'm excited to try out VR now that there are a few games I want to give a go.

 

[fireflame]

I would be interested in it if nit afraif of headaches or bumping into furniture.

 

[Mindfreak191]

If you buy it as a monthly payment plan it would cost less per month than getting a new iPhone. The "VR" is just for rich people is such an ignorant argument.

 

[Mindfreak191]

when wireless headsets are under 200$, and if we ever reach a point where vr games dont require 1500$+ rigs, and we get more killer apps than (potentially) alyx and astro bot, it will be successful. and i think we will get there someday. but right now, not gonna happen.

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VR games don't require $1500 rigs...

 

[Deleted member 227]

Besides the fact that your entire thesis is based on VR being prohibitive due to the cost of the system plus the headset, how is being ignorant that the Occulus Quest is a standalone system not a huge gotcha and sign that you have absolutely no clue what you're even talking about? :D Perhaps more importantly, how do you expect anyone to take you seriously when instead of this being a humbling, reflecting experience for you, you instantly turn around and claim, with absolutely no basis whatsoever, that the games the Occulus plays are "not real games"? Games like fucking Moss, Beat Saber and SuperHOT? And this is besides the constant disingenuous behaviour like refusing to answer the perfectly relevant question of whether you're actually from a third world country. Hell, have you ever even tried VR?

Seriously, man: take the L, ask a mod to close the thread, and spare yourself further embarrassment before it's too late and you become memetic.

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Aren't you just trying to shut down the discussion without actually arguing the point right now?
The games that can run on Quest's Snapdragon SOC are most definitely not enough to consider it valuable as a standalone system.

 

[Kurt Russell]

Aren't you just trying to shut down the discussion without actually arguing the point right now?
The games that can run on Quest's Snapdragon SOC are most definitely not enough to consider it valuable as a standalone system.

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That's YOUR take on it. Most of the games that run natively on the Quest are the VR system sellers on PC. So don't try to pass YOUR take as a "Truth (tm)" because the facts prove otherwise.

 

[Black_Stride]

Consoles are generally unpopular in poorer countries as well as people tend toward midrange PC gaming. And yet consoles are doing fine.

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Where are u getting this info?
Consoles are what run gaming in poorer countries.....piracy make PC gaming half and half but consoles still make more sense to most gamers.

<--- Lives in a poor country.

 

[Ghostwalker]

You can't really compare it to other luxury items that went mainstream like say the iPhone, because when that came out it was a product that covered a demand not many people knew they had at the time, and developed their consumer base from there. And Android had an incredibly low barrier to entry at the time it launched with HTC devices. Meanwhile VR isn't something people need, most people are content with never getting it. In fact using it makes some people sick.

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That is not a fair comparison.

The iPhone came out in 2007, 6 or so years after the first Smartphones hit the market.

The first Smartphones were that came out in the 2001/2002 were for the most part seen in the same light as VR and Streaming is seen now, I had a job testing them and they had just as many if not more problems then the early VR headsets. It took 6 years of consumer testing and R&D to get it so the iPone and Android phones came out and made them mainstream.

It will take VR and Streaming time as well to get to the point where a Mainstream product is developed.

It will happen as if you think about it, if you have a fast enough internet connection and a steaming AR/VR headset that is light and portable what other media device do you need.

 

[Kurt Russell]

Where are u getting this info?
Consoles are what run gaming in poorer countries.....piracy make PC gaming half and half but consoles still make more sense to most gamers.

<--- Lives in a poor country.

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I also live in what can be considered a poor country (Argentina) and PC gaming is far more popular than console gaming (and has been since the PS2 days, to the extent where you'd only see Wiis on arcades or on places that rent out systems for parties).
Piracy has a lot to do with that, of course, though Steam's push for fair regional pricing has helped tremendously in the past years.
By the way, this is not me saying your point is invalid. Different countries have different people.

 

[Weltall Zero]

Aren't you just trying to shut down the discussion without actually arguing the point right now?
The games that can run on Quest's Snapdragon SOC are most definitely not enough to consider it valuable as a standalone system.

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Let's argue the point then: SuperHOT and Beat Saber (to cite just two) are among the best VR games ever by any objective metric you can care to use. They're among the best selling, highest rated, AND most beloved VR games ever.

Your turn now: what is your objective argument why games like these are "not enough to consider it valuable"?

Bonus:

There's a big leap between something that actually has utility and something that's just for show off.

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Your argument is circular. "VR is not valuable / a break through because it won't take off in third world countries. It won't take off because it's not valuable / a break through." You are basing your dislike of VR on your dislike of VR, with absolutely zero objective arguments why it's categorically different from, say, TV, or categorically identical to, say, 3D.

 

[Mindfreak191]

Where are u getting this info?
Consoles are what run gaming in poorer countries.....piracy make PC gaming half and half but consoles still make more sense to most gamers.

<--- Lives in a poor country.

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Ehm I lived in a poor country my whole life and no one touched the ps3 or 360 untill they got hacked because no one wanted to pay for games so everyone was basically on PC, same with next gen, until they got hacked no one touched them...I guess it differs from poor country to poor country...

 

[Laurel_McFang]

I went to more VR Arcades in `second world` countries like Malaysia and Thailand than I have been to in the U.S.A.
I actually have not seen as many VR related places outside of Asia in general (and far fewer fighting robots sadly)
If anything the proliferation of PC bars in Asia means that more people have access to high end gaming PCs, they just share them.
Streaming on the other hand would do really well in Asia where bandwidth is plentiful, but they always seem to aim it at the first world first.

 

[DIE BART DIE]

That is not a fair comparison.

The iPhone came out in 2007, 6 or so years after the first Smartphones hit the market.

The first Smartphones were that came out in the 2001/2002 were for the most part seen in the same light as VR is seen now, I had a job testing them and they had just as many if not more problems then the early VR headsets. It took 6 years of consumer testing and R&D to get it so the iPone and Android phones came out and made them mainstream.

It will take VR and Streaming time as well to get to the point where a Mainstream product is developed.

It will happen as if you think about it, if you have a fast enough internet connection and a steaming AR/VR headset that is light and portable what other media device do you need.

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Yeah, the iPhone didn't just appear in 2007 in a vacuum. Remember PDAs? Proto smartphones from at least 5 years previous which were seen as incredibly luxurious and superfluous. But the tech helped to inform the design of later devices.

 

[Deleted member 227]

That's YOUR take on it. Most of the games that run natively on the Quest are the VR system sellers on PC. So don't try to pass YOUR take as a "Truth (tm)" because the facts prove otherwise.

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But the obvious path forward for it is implementing it into more demanding and prestigious games, like HL2. Things that can't run on a on a Snapdragon SOC. Or are you saying that VR going forward should always be developed with the limitations of a SOC in mind. That just creates problem in it's own way then. Who would want to pay $400 to only play a subsection of VR games?

 

[Kurt Russell]

But the obvious path forward for it is implementing it into more demanding and prestigious games, like HL2. Things that can't run on a on a Snapdragon SOC. Or are you saying that VR going forward should always be developed with the limitations of a SOC in mind. That just creates problem in it's own way then. Who would want to pay $400 to only play a subsection of VR games?

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You know the answer to that very well. And as usual, you are moving the goalposts (you really seem to be a pro at that, so congrats, I guess?). You literally said the machine can't play the kind of games people would buy it for. I've proven it can (with facts). Now you move the goalpost again. The response that that is easy enough, HL: Alyx seems to require more power than what the Quest on its own can provide, so it will work through the Link, connected to your PC.
You know, like people who bought a PS3 to play stuff, then stuff that required more power showed up and they had to get a PS4. Only here they don't even need to get rid of their PS3, since it connects to that PS4 and lets them play ALL the new stuff (while at the same time getting stuff there, just like the PES games, or FIFA kept coming out on last gen machines).