Oh I missed that, that's better!
The issue is mainly that Oda chose to write an island full of predatory non-binary people that then pursued Sanji for two years, although Sanji's vitriol for the place doesn't help.Sanji has a problem with them but did people forget that they chase sanji around a island for 2 years to strip him and dress him up .
Sanji had been traumatised but i don't see Kiku & Yamato having the same effect since that gag done with all around for a while.
you are aware that sanji doesn't exist, and we're discussing Oda's writing, right? ppl didn't forget this. it's irrelevant.Sanji has a problem with them but did people forget that they chase sanji around a island for 2 years to strip him and dress him up .
Sanji had been traumatised but i don't see Kiku & Yamato having the same effect since that gag done with all around for a while.
you are aware that sanji doesn't exist, and we're discussing Oda's writing, right? ppl didn't forget this. it's irrelevant.
i don't read Attack on Titan, so the joke/reference is lost on me.
The issue is mainly that Oda chose to write an island full of predatory non-binary people that then pursued Sanji for two years, although Sanji's vitriol for the place doesn't help.
Genuinely the worst part of the manga for me. It feels so mean-spirited towards such a disenfranchised group, when the rest of the series represents pretty much the complete opposite of that.
you are aware that sanji doesn't exist, and we're discussing Oda's writing, right? ppl didn't forget this. it's irrelevant.
The issue with that was sort of two fold in a way .
You had Sanji who wanted there recipes so he had to fight them.
They in turn they would dress him up if he lost so her ran while trying to do it because of there numbers.
So you have both him and them look bad in certain ways .
We can dream that it was all Oda's 15-year long set-up for the ultimate character arc for Sanji where he learns he needs to accept all the inhabitants of Momoiro Island as they are, teams up with Ivankov to break Bon Clay out of Impel Down, and finally brushes his bangs to the side and pulls off an Ultimate Mascara Death Wink during the final war.The issue with that was sort of two fold in a way .
You had Sanji who wanted there recipes so he had to fight them.
They in turn they would dress him up if he lost so her ran while trying to do it because of there numbers.
So you have both him and them look bad in certain ways .
We can dream that it was all Oda's 15-year long set-up for the ultimate character arc for Sanji where he learns he needs to accept all the inhabitants of Momoiro Island as they are, teams up with Ivankov to break Bon Clay out of Impel Down, and finally brushes his bangs to the side and pulls off an Ultimate Mascara Death Wink during the final war.
But it probably won't be.
Yes. Oda did two jokes in poor taste at the same time in the name of bathroom panic.
I don't know how anyone could look at the Okama stuff from any arc and be like, "yes yes, this is not only okay, it's funny!"
Pudding with will change Sanji hopefullyknowing sanji, even if he reach that point he probably say something like, "everboyd needs acceptance, even monsters like you"
>_>
I kinda feel like this was supposed to be what Inazuma was for. Not outside the culture, obviously, but a contrast to Ivankov. They've got a quirky design, but it's quirky in the "One Piece normal person" way and not the "abnormal even in universe" way Ivankov's is.During Impel Down when a lot of this was first being presented (yes I know Bon Clay existed from as early as pre-Alabasta but ID was the first big look at the Okama Way and culture), I always felt like it would have been better nuance to also have more prominent character rep outside of that culture with a more subdued design and philosophy alongside them
that seems like a logical path, but we haven't gotten any indication one way or another yetHaven't kept up with the latest chapters. But is Yamato supposed to grow out of this Oden personality? Like becoming his own true self and not an imitation of his idol.
so long as SHE has a pair of big tits, a nice plump ass and a smooth-skinned curvy body, SHE is a FEMALE, keep your creepy ass agendas to yourselves, just because one person, whether they be a character in the series or a real person, calls her a male simply because she wants to be Oden, DOES NOT MEAN SHE IS MALE, science bitches, the tits, the ass, the body and the female voice that she'll obviously have when the anime catches up, DICTATES that she is indeed a female, get your creepy opinions and personal agendas the fuck outta here, she is scientifically classed as a female, no matter whether she or anyone else thinks she's male, SHE IS A FEMALE, so stop being creepy and get it through your thick skulls already ffs
found this post.
so we are all creeps for accepting yamato as he identifies himself.
but he is obviously a woman because he has a big pair of tits and a nice ass.
anime fans were a mistake
Huh? I just got done rereading Fishman Island with some people going through it for the first time recently and that never happened. Sanji was completely unconscious due to blood loss and it happened while he was out, there was never a rejection about it by him, even afterward.alongside the fact sanji almost denied blood transfusion when it was revealed to him the only ones available were okamas.
while i do admit i got the order wrong (my bad, i havent read the arc again in a while) i wouldn't say that face when he discovers who donated the blood is the most accepting thing.Huh? I just got done rereading Fishman Island with some people going through it for the first time recently and that never happened. Sanji was completely unconscious due to blood loss and it happened while he was out, there was never a rejection about it by him, even afterward.
agreed, I like alot of Fishmen Island but there are bits like this that are roughwhile i do admit i got the order wrong (my bad, i havent read the arc again in a while) i wouldn't say that face when he discovers who donated the blood is the most accepting thing.
Oh yeah, Sanji definitely doesn't like this turn of events that happened while he was out, but it's not outright rejecting their blood because of who they are. All in all, though, it's a poor taste joke, but it doesn't torpedo Sanji as a character or the themes of the arc.while i do admit i got the order wrong (my bad, i havent read the arc again in a while) i wouldn't say that face when he discovers who donated the blood is the most accepting thing.
I kinda feel like this was supposed to be what Inazuma was for. Not outside the culture, obviously, but a contrast to Ivankov. They've got a quirky design, but it's quirky in the "One Piece normal person" way and not the "abnormal even in universe" way Ivankov's is.
Basically the Robin of Ivankov's group.
One person can't counterbalance an army. So not surprised.To be honest with you, that's how I took it too but then when I was introducing a bunch of friends to the series and we reached that point together, one of them (a gay male) very strongly felt bothered enough even by Inazuma to basically throw the whole thing out and since I don't identify as particularly gay or trans myself, I could only take it as "not normal enough actually".
I will say thank you for this postIt takes literally $0.00 to just respect what someone comes out with as their preferred means of addressing them and when you have golden good boys like Luffy and absolute actual bastards like Kaido of all people doing as much and you can't? You a whole real person? You engaging with the wrong media. (As an aside, this is also why I literally had to mass unfollow a number of "bigger" One Piece reactors and content creators recently; what used to just be fun side or "abridged" reads turned extremely gross and very transparently "worst part of high school anime club dialed up to 11 because we have big platforms" as you'd see the same talking points and casual gestures of ignorance almost everywhere else when discussing the contents after the fact on the net.)
The whole situation with Kiku and Yamato reeks of the worst kind of "anime head" types who want the ability to be titillated without fearing for their "masculinity" (Yamato's case) or to casually make light of transness as a whole because they still live in the era where the "trap" slur was peak internet funny (it never was; Kiku's case). Never mind the fact that they're two of the best wholly new characters in the series to date.
The topic has come up multiple times over the course of the series' run and there are so many clashing aspects that make me feel like Oda just has too many things going on and hasn't been able to come back to things to address them with a more modern lens. The more prominent Okamas, as previously mentioned, are hyper caricatured and almost derogatory depictions of gay/trans spectrum individuals just looking at them on first introduction, but then our first real introduction to their culture/society showed variances and nuances in their design with some adopting the "wacky makeup big 'man' faced" designs and others (while background) being more akin to the normie humans and figures in their world showing that Oda's aware that there's degrees to this or more bluntly that all them gays aren't just weirdos. Given the inspirations and influences he had (Rocky Horror Picture Show & visiting actual okama bars with friends), I can see why the exaggerated designs happened the way they did. The man then goes the extra step and the major named figures who we were to care about are some of his strongest character writing (Bon Clay) or solidly capable individuals with an impact and importance that persists to this day while possessing character and pride in themselves and what they are/do (Inazuma/Ivankov) and at one point, I thought that was a pretty rad thing to do in a story about chasing freedoms and dreams with people from all walks of life.
All of this however goes out the window when one of the core most figures of the story in Sanji still adopts a persona that outright views them with contempt and its supposed to be funny because "haha womanizer go brr". I'm still low key very pensive of whenever he has to have a formal meeting with Kiku and Yamato in current time knowing what we do now and I say this as someone still waiting for that trigger moment that forces real growth and a changed mindset in how he approaches both the opposite sex and individuals with different gender expressions.
During Impel Down when a lot of this was first being presented (yes I know Bon Clay existed from as early as pre-Alabasta but ID was the first big look at the Okama Way and culture), I always felt like it would have been better nuance to also have more prominent character rep outside of that culture with a more subdued design and philosophy alongside them. Kiku and Yamato both feel like attempts at those answers and I feel kinda positive given things like the previously mentioned in universe means with which everyone refers to them so far and the way they are embraced. You could say this is the honeymoon period because its pirates mostly (plus a culture [Wano] that seems to be open minded about it) doing whatever they want though and that'd be fair too.
I rambled a bit here but it's been on my mind for a while and I didn't know how to structure everything lol. TL;DR Don't be gross and let 'em rock. Fuck people/places that can't do the barest minimum.
Oda doesn't make much sense. in one way, he nails characters like ivankov(specially given the inspirations), Bon Clay, and now Yamato, everyone using male pronouns for him, etc.
on the other hand...Sanji as a character with the timeskip, where he basically says ''okamas'' are predatory, alongside the fact sanji almost denied blood transfusion when it was revealed to him the only ones available were okamas.
I sincerely don't understand.
Lmao.so long as SHE has a pair of big tits, a nice plump ass and a smooth-skinned curvy body, SHE is a FEMALE, keep your creepy ass agendas to yourselves, just because one person, whether they be a character in the series or a real person, calls her a male simply because she wants to be Oden, DOES NOT MEAN SHE IS MALE, science bitches, the tits, the ass, the body and the female voice that she'll obviously have when the anime catches up, DICTATES that she is indeed a female, get your creepy opinions and personal agendas the fuck outta here, she is scientifically classed as a female, no matter whether she or anyone else thinks she's male, SHE IS A FEMALE, so stop being creepy and get it through your thick skulls already ffs
that whole exchange with Yumichika was super gross in how it treated Trans individualsBleach had a trans girl character that was a somewhat prominent villain at the end.
Giselle was pretty fun but man were there a lot of unfortunate implications on how Giselle was framed and how the "heroes" talked to her.
I think Yumichika even said that she smelled like cum.
so long as SHE has a pair of big tits, a nice plump ass and a smooth-skinned curvy body, SHE is a FEMALE, keep your creepy ass agendas to yourselves, just because one person, whether they be a character in the series or a real person, calls her a male simply because she wants to be Oden, DOES NOT MEAN SHE IS MALE, science bitches, the tits, the ass, the body and the female voice that she'll obviously have when the anime catches up, DICTATES that she is indeed a female, get your creepy opinions and personal agendas the fuck outta here, she is scientifically classed as a female, no matter whether she or anyone else thinks she's male, SHE IS A FEMALE, so stop being creepy and get it through your thick skulls already ffs
found this post.
so we are all creeps for accepting yamato as he identifies himself.
but he is obviously a woman because he has a big pair of tits and a nice ass.
anime fans were a mistake
OP always had questionable elements so its good to see Oda actually trying to improve (seemingly anyway).
These new characters seem still in his notorious 1 absurd body type he draws for all women.
Bleach had a trans girl character that was a somewhat prominent villain at the end.
Giselle was pretty fun but man were there a lot of unfortunate implications on how Giselle was framed and how the "heroes" talked to her.
I think Yumichika even said that she smelled like cum.
that whole exchange with Yumichika was super gross in how it treated Trans individuals
We can dream that it was all Oda's 15-year long set-up for the ultimate character arc for Sanji where he learns he needs to accept all the inhabitants of Momoiro Island as they are, teams up with Ivankov to break Bon Clay out of Impel Down, and finally brushes his bangs to the side and pulls off an Ultimate Mascara Death Wink during the final war.
But it probably won't be.
oh, i know. he used to be a bit better tho.Because Sanji is shit, when Oda writes him he writes like a 14 year old boy who wasn't raised right, and OP would be 10x better if he didn't exist.
Yamato's been a weird one for me cause it's not like Kiku where she basically just says hey I'm a woman, Yamato says "hey I'm Oden." Sure, that absolutely comes along with the implication that he's male, but there's some insane disassociative stuff on top of it there, it kinda trivializes actual trans people by saying "claim you're a different actual person" is the same as "this is your actual gender." It's the attack helicopter bullshit to a point, reducing being trans to "oh just claim you're anything," so I worry a little about using Yamato as a great beacon here, it muddies the water a little.
I willI don't read OP that much anymore, but in reading this topic, I did check out Yamato's OP wiki page.
It explicitly misgenders Yamato by calling him Kaido's daughter, but then tries to hide it by refusing to use pronouns through his entire entry. So whenever it has to refer to the character, it just keeps saying "Yamato did this" or "Yamato said that". No other character article does this.
So you probably want to add whoever does the OP wiki to the shitlist.
Because Sanji is shit, when Oda writes him he writes like a 14 year old boy who wasn't raised right, and OP would be 10x better if he didn't exist.
100%. Sanji has dragged the manga's gender politics back to the dark ages since day one.
He said he would be "looking for women", but he appeared to save Momonosuke/Shinobu from Kaido so it was a lie. Right after he mentioned Ulti but continued to run with Luffy to Kaido.
I still don't know which pronoun is correct because of the way Yamato is portrayed (which is why I will just use they/them for now, hope that is fine).