The number of adults without sex in the prior year is disproportionately increasing among young men
- Thread starter mutantmagnet
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Exactly! We have to live up to all these unrealistic standards. More and more Millenial men will suffer
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I have seen quite a bit of Tinder profiles from my friends and most of them are so boring. Most guys can be subdivided into like 3 categories, and after you've seen enough you know exactly who they are.
My only recommendation to people that can't get any luck is to not be boring and to highlight your positives. When I was on tinder I decided which facets of my life I wanted to highlight and did not just throw my whole life at the wall and hope something sticks. Update your profile based on the season and the area.
During winter: I highlighted that I want to go snowboarding and stay inside the house.
During Summer: Surfing, Rock Climbing and be outside as much as I can.
I also have a pretty regular D&D group and play computer games, but on my profile I decided to put pictures of me after winning in jiu jitsu where I look great instead of a picture with my DnD friends where I look tired and stressed after almost dying against some lich.
I really hope this is a joke.
My only recommendation to people that can't get any luck is to not be boring and to highlight your positives. When I was on tinder I decided which facets of my life I wanted to highlight and did not just throw my whole life at the wall and hope something sticks. Update your profile based on the season and the area.
During winter: I highlighted that I want to go snowboarding and stay inside the house.
During Summer: Surfing, Rock Climbing and be outside as much as I can.
I also have a pretty regular D&D group and play computer games, but on my profile I decided to put pictures of me after winning in jiu jitsu where I look great instead of a picture with my DnD friends where I look tired and stressed after almost dying against some lich.
I really hope this is a joke.
This post right here has so much truth. Boys think about how you spend your time, what you do with yourself and how you dress/act. Apply all those things to a potential date/SO then ask yourself: Would I want to be a part of this person's life.
Different people want/need different things. If your lusting after that fit social butterfly and you game all day then have no hobbies...I have some bad news for you. Find someone that lines up with your interests or reevaluate yourself.
half-serious question: if i ever get over my hangups about hookups (that... mysteriously only developed after undergrad had a steady stream), should i have decent luck on these apps if i'm currently only two out of those five things (the income and hobbies) and am at least working to alleviate one of them?
I guess I can see that. You won't exactly be thinking clearly when your just trying to survive and get by. I was there at that age, persevered(was broke a lot though) but it's different for everyone. Definitely something to think on.
....what?
Women have obviously had the short end of the stick in the past and, in some ways, still do. But, I don't think this modern trend is just a result of women having any kind of standards. They want someone who's "impressive" and the lopsided state of online dating lets them turn that want into a requirement.
Bottom text.
You know, it doesn't really matter whether you consider yourself a sad victim of women's pickiness or a winner whose managed to meet the standards. Talking about top % and bottom % men, women's standards and men "having little to offer" means you've bought into the toxic masculine bullshit that informs the dumbass beliefs of incels. And it means you're actively being harmful. A bad economy, social isolation and women on average dating older men probably does a far better job of explaining the gender discrepancy than men having little to offer or women all "competing" for the top 20% of men. I just know there are some members reading all these dumbfuck comments and feeling more insecure and self-loathing because of it. I know I would have a year ago.
I was an insecure virgin till 26 and you know what eventually changed everything? Actually being open to dating, no longer avoiding social situations and saying yes where I usually said no. I didn't have to pull myself up some percentiles in attractiveness or learn new hobbies and skills so I met some kind of universal female standard.
I was an insecure virgin till 26 and you know what eventually changed everything? Actually being open to dating, no longer avoiding social situations and saying yes where I usually said no. I didn't have to pull myself up some percentiles in attractiveness or learn new hobbies and skills so I met some kind of universal female standard.
I'm not a woman and I don't pretend to know why women want to sleep with someone. All we can say is that a higher % of tall/fit guys are getting laid. I don't think questioning someone's motivation for who they find attractive is productive or relevant.
It means exactly what I said, it's not that serious. You're putting too much on it.
Be able to carry a conversation, dress decently enough, be adjacent to in good shape, have a goal in life. These aren't exactly high bars.
Unrealistic standards in terms of beauty(height etc) Having successful careers with this shit economy. Our generation having poor social skills compared to the last only makes things worse etc.
Sorry if I dont respond I'm at the movies watching Gumbo...
The unrealistic expectations of looking for someone attractive, successful and that isnt a total social slob? Damn, I really don't want to know where you draw your standards.
People act like losers and guys with no confidence didn't exist 20 years ago. They still did. They just got laid more. Discounting the impact of social media and online dating ignores reality.
It's usually the opposite from what I see. People gaming all day usually want to find someone like that....but its hard to find people that are mostly gaming because they are gaming.
Tinder is B-R-U-T-A-L! I don't know if it's my age (37) or what. These last two years, I decided to be "daring", upgraded my wardrobe, pierced my ears (in lieu of a tattoo sleeve), and grew my hair out to the point where I get mistaken for being a woman on a near-weekly basis. Initially I thought the ladies weren't feeling the new look because I wasn't getting any matches across several apps. Then I figured out my phone was glitched. After I got it straightened out, the likes from girls (and dudes for some reason) started pouring it on OKC and Bumble. But Tinder? NADA! I've only gotten about 3 matches on the entire two years I've been on there. Granted my crippling social phobia keeps me from messaging any of the women who swiped right on me, it would still be nice to know I get swiped right on Tinder every once in a while. I've since deleted the app.
Counterpoint: if you don't use social media or dating apps at all (and don't want to) you definitely aren't getting laid.
I speak from experience. It's just really hard to meet a person, form a connection, hope they're single, hope they find you attractive, etc. And at my age (34) also hope they don't have kids (increasingly unlikely with each year!)
I speak from experience. It's just really hard to meet a person, form a connection, hope they're single, hope they find you attractive, etc. And at my age (34) also hope they don't have kids (increasingly unlikely with each year!)
When it turns into a pity party and it's clear that people suffer from low self-esteem, that's when I tap out. I can give general advice, I can't help everyone. And I've seen TONS of threads turn into this.
But I understand it is hard for people to look at the themselves and see the ways they could improve.
Not a great example, but a few weeks back, I was looking at this folding table next to my bed that I have certain electronics on and then it just clicked, why do I STILL have this when I can just buy a night stand/drawer from IKEA. Got it for relatively cheap, can put my stuff inside it and it looks great among the rest of my furniture (which isn't a lot because my place is 300 sqft). Point is, do that, but for yourself. Small things like, trimming your unibrow, getting haircuts regularly, matching and not wearing wrinkly clothes.
A common sentiment I see on Twitter from women and gay men is how shitty their SO's places are. And it's not a matter of having a FANCY place, but by simply having a bed with a frame. Not using crates and boxes as furniture. Having a living room that's not simply a TV and gaming chair. And it's worth noting, men in these situations, still got dates.
If you don't do those things and never go out, you're not getting laid (aka me for the past year). I don't think apps are a requirement.
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Based on back when I was still dating, I would say over half of the dates could not even meet the conversation requirement. But guys will continue to blame their own physical attributes because it's an easy out.
Reporting for duty! I'm saving myself for someone special, I want to be in peak physical condition and health. There's so much stuff going around, why risk it until I find someone I love?
tbh if you're not willing to put the effort in to grow taller then you don't deserve any tinder action anyway
I'm not questioning anyone's motivation. Just pointing out that women have no incentive to settle. I only use the word impressive because that's the word women ITT have been using.
You know there's plenty of guys like that out there getting a lot of play and there's a lot of really nice dudes who are just no good at dating because they are awkward, shy, uncomfortable, etc.
I mean, there is no one "magic bullet" cause for this. It's not just "they need to be more confident and get their shit together" or "it's all tinder's fault," but a confluence of all these things and more.
Young people, especially in their late teens and early 20s, are living at home, busting their asses at school and/or work, don't have a lot of money, and for the most part are still learning to navigate relationships. Add to that the fact that many of the rules and "social script" around dating have changed a lot in the last decade or so combined with young people today seemingly having poorer social skills overall, and it's not surprising that people are struggling. Especially when the best advice they can get are vague platitudes like "be interesting."
It's fun to think all these guys are just incel virgin losers who hate women, but I imagine a lot of them are just regular dudes who don't have time or interest in dating, or simply haven't been all that lucky. I'll be honest and speak for myself here: I don't date cause I'm fucking broke. lol I'm doing what I can just to get by and take care of myself and my sister while I work toward getting my teaching licence. I'm not in the age range to be considered young according to this study (freshly turned 30), but I can sympathize with a young guy who is maybe going through some kind of burden and dating just isn't a thing for them at the moment.
It's also worth noting the study doesn't say all these guys have never had sex. Just that they haven't had sex in the past year. A lot of them probably have had sex and relationships before, but have fallen back for one reason or another. There's a whole grey area between "virgin" and "swimming in the coochie everyday" and I imagine a lot of guys are falling in that space.
Also, was this study focused exclusively on heterosexual relationships? Because if not, that probably plays a part too. I can't speak from any place of authority on this topic, so I would defer to any LGBT members of the board to talk about the dynamics of dating when you're not a cis-hetero person. However, I would imagine it ain't exactly easy street for them either these days.
There are plenty of dudes who are boring and regular as fuck who manage to do just fine sexually speaking. Era gets so weird with this self-help, "they're all just losers" talk in every dating thread. Been that way since Gaf.
Like, A LOT higher.
Young people, especially in their late teens and early 20s, are living at home, busting their asses at school and/or work, don't have a lot of money, and for the most part are still learning to navigate relationships. Add to that the fact that many of the rules and "social script" around dating have changed a lot in the last decade or so combined with young people today seemingly having poorer social skills overall, and it's not surprising that people are struggling. Especially when the best advice they can get are vague platitudes like "be interesting."
It's fun to think all these guys are just incel virgin losers who hate women, but I imagine a lot of them are just regular dudes who don't have time or interest in dating, or simply haven't been all that lucky. I'll be honest and speak for myself here: I don't date cause I'm fucking broke. lol I'm doing what I can just to get by and take care of myself and my sister while I work toward getting my teaching licence. I'm not in the age range to be considered young according to this study (freshly turned 30), but I can sympathize with a young guy who is maybe going through some kind of burden and dating just isn't a thing for them at the moment.
It's also worth noting the study doesn't say all these guys have never had sex. Just that they haven't had sex in the past year. A lot of them probably have had sex and relationships before, but have fallen back for one reason or another. There's a whole grey area between "virgin" and "swimming in the coochie everyday" and I imagine a lot of guys are falling in that space.
Also, was this study focused exclusively on heterosexual relationships? Because if not, that probably plays a part too. I can't speak from any place of authority on this topic, so I would defer to any LGBT members of the board to talk about the dynamics of dating when you're not a cis-hetero person. However, I would imagine it ain't exactly easy street for them either these days.
I mean....yeah.
There are plenty of dudes who are boring and regular as fuck who manage to do just fine sexually speaking. Era gets so weird with this self-help, "they're all just losers" talk in every dating thread. Been that way since Gaf.
This is true as well. Sad to say, but if respecting women was a requirement to having sex, that number would be a lot higher than 23%.
Like, A LOT higher.
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Wasn't using Tinder. I can't be bothered. I was trying out Hinge, and dear god it was awful. I either get women that were super models, or they were physically unattractive. There's no in between. I think after 3 weeks, I might have encountered maybe 10 women who were actually down to earth. Some of which also didn't fit my no smoking requirement. So my requirements of being down to earth and don't smoke now seem like sky high requirements.
I'd argue some of those are a bit disingenuous. Being able to carry a conversation isn't enough. You also have to be funny and have reservoir of interesting anecdotes along with a preexisting social circle. Dressing "decently enough" means having a lot of extra money to spend on shit clothes because they're """stylish""". And in shape means spending hours per day counting calories and exercising. Those are assuredly not high bars for everyone, but clearing them just puts you in the running. Now you get to compete with all the other guys who've done all that and more.
Okay, but your posts come across as "Well, I'm not doing anything wrong, it's just that their expectations are too high and there's nothing I can do about it."
To which I would say none of those three things are true.
Be realistic: Why would women choose out of shape dudes over fit buff dudes who could squish you?
Ya'll incels need to just hit the gym
Ya'll incels need to just hit the gym
I didn't mean to come across that way. I'm doing plenty wrong and I could do something about it. And I wouldn't call women's standards "too high" even on tinder as those standards haven't stopped any of them from getting sex and relationships.
You don't *have* to have any specific combination of the things you listed. But more of them help than not. Women aren't combination locks that await the correct input. You're essentially observing some things that go a long way and acting like they're required. That's not true in the slightest. Some of your "requirements" are laughable though. A "reservoir of interesting anecdotes"? More like, be capable of interesting conversation. ""Stylish"" clothes? More like, clean outfit that actually fits. You absolutely do not have to have a preexisting social circle to have success on dating apps, that's kinda the point for some users. You're engaging in hyperbole because I have plenty of friends that only have two or three of the "requirements" you've listed, and many of them have girlfriends. It's just not that deep
Not everyone is funny and people who try hard to be when they're not are the worst.
Pre-existing social circle? You mean friends? I mean, not having any is a red flag to most, but it's not required that you have a dedicated group that you see regularly.
With the clothes, you're already doing too much. I just meant don't walk around in jorts and you're taking that as if it means you have to shop luxury places. Polo and khakis, even from Goodwill are solid.
I said adjacent to in shape. People are less attracted to those who are overweight. I'd imagine the same is true for you. Not saying being in shape is easy, but no, doesn't really require hours each day. Not eating out and maybe walking for 30 minutes a day would also go a long way. There was a time where I would eat out almost everyday, sit at work for 8 hours and then just not do anything when I got home. That's what most shouldn't do.
Women aren't that different from you. Some have the same social anxiety and nervousness as others. Everyone's different.
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I've been successful in the past year. But then again I hate Trump and don't like Jordan Peterson.
I wonder how those graphs compare with people who are looking for relationships vs. people looking for one stands.
Because most of my friends in my 20s weren't looking for anything serious and I imagine pick-up culture and one night stands are even more common/popular now.
Because if the guy is just looking to score and she isn't, then nothing will happen there.
Because most of my friends in my 20s weren't looking for anything serious and I imagine pick-up culture and one night stands are even more common/popular now.
Because if the guy is just looking to score and she isn't, then nothing will happen there.
If you don't think being funny and having good stories to tell factors into interesting conversation, then idk. What exactly do you think of when you say "interesting conversation"? But you are right about the social circle bit. That mostly affects offline dating.
So, between 50% and 75% of the things I listed? And that wasn't my definitive list of what women want. I was just expanding on the things listed by another user.
This is a great post. There is no one 'solution' to this problem, nor is there one 'cause' to this problem. It's something that has stemmed from decades of economic turmoil, social change, crappy education, and a whole bunch of other things that I can't even think of. As such to suggest that it's simply a case of "be more interesting!" or "have self-esteem" for all the millions of people it effects is an incredibly reductive way to go about this, as is suggesting that everyone who isn't having sex is automatically an incel (I'd argue that kind of thinking does more to help incels than anything).
Frankly there's a lot of parallels to the obesity crisis here. From the constant "helpful tips" that show up every time as if people don't already know them to even the way-too-heavy focus on the tiny minority that holds an extreme viewpoint (incels and the 'fat acceptance movement'), it just seems like we're repeating so many of the same mistakes here that we are there.
As for your LGBT comment, you are kinda right. I'm still figuring out 'who I am' (it's complicated lol) but from my experience with the Gay community the issue of 'hookups' is one that is causing a lot of issues. It's easier for someone to get laid but the chances of that moving on to a meanigful relationship that lasts is, from what I've seen, much lower than with straight couples. That's not to mention the racism and transphobia that's still way-too-prevalent. I also remember reading somewhere (probably in those same conversations in the gay community, I can't recall) that the BDSM community has a massive issue with an overabundance of men being met with a shortage of woman. In neither case would I put it down to the people being "uninteresting" or something equally simplistic.
"Hitting the gym" has, and will never be, the sole solution to a person's relationships woe. Trust me, I've been on 'that' side of the curtain (I've thankfully managed to pull away from it for good) and a lot of incels know that their weight/lack of muscles is an issue, many even do 'hit the gym', but the root causes are a lot more than that so, in the end, nothing changes. Simplistic thinking like this helps no-one.
I think it's an interesting observation, but I'm more inclined to think it would be attributed to socioeconomic factors (a lot of millenial and under men fell out of the job market) than say, physical fitness or politics.
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