• Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
  • We have made minor adjustments to how the search bar works on ResetEra. You can read about the changes here.

Tanuki-Go

One Winged Slayer
Member
Jul 21, 2018
2,430
US
Jesus christ buying the 4K blu-rays is a pain, eighty dollars for all of them, or sixty-some-odd bucks to get them individually, but then you have to conscientiously buy Revolutions...

Wait until the Black Friday sales hit. The 4K trilogy set was around $30-ish on a few sites around that time last year.
 

Axon

Banned
Mar 9, 2020
2,397
Bill Pope, the cinematographer of all three movies, was in charge of the new remastering process for the trilogy. This is his intent, I guess. lol. He actually re-timed all three movies. They look genuinely great.

A lot of early days DVD and even Blu-rays aren't accurate to the source material. Who's to say the 1999 DVD is what was intended? We know however that in 2004 they remastered it and purposefully color-timed it to make it look more inline with the sequels, which is what was used in the 2008 Blu-rays.

Color timing is a complicated subject, especially when it comes to preserving older movies. The negative might not be in good condition, there might not be solid reference prints available. Or the people responsible don't care to be involved, or are retired or just don't care. Or they are involved in the new process but are decades removed from the original production so they don't even remember what their original intent was or their particular tastes have changed (you can see this in the last remasters of Blade Runner and T2, with both Ridley Scott and James Cameron applying a teal push over the picture). Or are long dead.

I wasnt trying to imply that the 1999 DVD is the original intent - I dont know what the original intent was, I have never seen Matrix in the cinema and even if I did I doubt I would remember the specifics of the color-grading. That I dont know is what frustrates me, because I desperately want to watch all movies as close to the OG vision as intended.

And of course its a huge problem if a solid reference print isnt available, but I cant imagine thats the case for a movie like the Matrix, surely the right material is out there somewhere.
 

Patitoloco

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
23,714
I wasnt trying to imply that the 1999 DVD is the original intent - I dont know what the original intent was, I have never seen Matrix in the cinema and even if I did I doubt I would remember the specifics of the color-grading. That I dont know is what frustrates me, because I desperately want to watch all movies as close to the OG vision as intended.

And of course its a huge problem if a solid reference print isnt available, but I cant imagine thats the case for a movie like the Matrix, surely the right material is out there somewhere.
You can see a good showing of the original print here (forget the 4K panel, as many people says in the comments it doesn't actually look like this):

 

jett

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
44,672
I wasnt trying to imply that the 1999 DVD is the original intent - I dont know what the original intent was, I have never seen Matrix in the cinema and even if I did I doubt I would remember the specifics of the color-grading. That I dont know is what frustrates me, because I desperately want to watch all movies as close to the OG vision as intended.

And of course its a huge problem if a solid reference print isnt available, but I cant imagine thats the case for a movie like the Matrix, surely the right material is out there somewhere.
Well you know, like I said we are sometimes at the mercy of the changing minds of these artists. :P The only way to experience how a movie "originally" looked is to have been there.

I also forgot to mention how sometimes they just fuck up, even in a modern release. For instance the theatrical release of The Dark Knight had a heavy teal filter over several scenes (you can still see it in its trailers), which they just removed completely when it came out on DVD/BD lol. It was restored when the UHD disc was released though.
 

Axon

Banned
Mar 9, 2020
2,397
You can see a good showing of the original print here (forget the 4K panel, as many people says in the comments it doesn't actually look like this):



Thats a really good ressource, thanks. I havent watched the Matrix movies in a while and Im looking to buy a home release so this helps to make a decision.
 

Teiresias

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,242
Jesus christ buying the 4K blu-rays is a pain, eighty dollars for all of them, or sixty-some-odd bucks to get them individually, but then you have to conscientiously buy Revolutions...

I bought the first movie on release, but skipped the sequels. I picked them up later during a sale, so if you want them mainly for a rewatch before Resurrections you might save some cash waiting for holiday/black Friday sales through Best Buy or something.
 

Vonocourt

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,637
Wait until the Black Friday sales hit. The 4K trilogy set was around $30-ish on a few sites around that time last year.

I bought the first movie on release, but skipped the sequels. I picked them up later during a sale, so if you want them mainly for a rewatch before Resurrections you might save some cash waiting for holiday/black Friday sales through Best Buy or something.
I Will do that, thanks.
I've literally rewatched the trilogy twice this year, once after when I came out to my friend, and did another one when the trailer dropped. This is more for posterity than "I need to watch it now."
The 4 k set is on iTunes for 15$. I know not the same but for the price..
I just don't like paying for movies individually that are dependent on my internet connections being consistent. At least with my digital purchases on consoles I can play them during the hours I may receive an internet blackout, streaming apps don't allow that. I could download it to my computer and then pipe it out... but fuck that.
 
Oct 28, 2017
27,290
My wife just watched this trailer without context and and asked me if Fishbourne was in this movie and I said no. Then she was like "why is he on pills, this makes no sense?"...then it hit her in the middle of the trailer like "wait, this is not John Wick why does he look like John Wick in this?"

The final realization that this was a new Matrix movie and not another John Wick had her a bit sad. She's meh on Matrix but loves that damn John Wick.
 

RealCanadianBro

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
2,193
Everyone be cool I got this.

f2g95SZ.png


Hmmm, it's still missing something though...

lIJHkCQ.png


Perfect.


10/10 post
 

tsmoreau

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,445
I had the 1999 DVD back in the day along with Matrix revisited and those were some of my most watched discs back then.

I was used to the brown grading and never really liked the green that seemed to folks standard reference for a long time. I did watch the HBO Max release recently and thought that looked real good to though.

Overall I'm seriously impressed at how much more intimate this feels. Absolutely the right move, going big end of the world would be retreading. Can't wait
 
Oct 27, 2017
42,794
My wife just watched this trailer without context and and asked me if Fishbourne was in this movie and I said no. Then she was like "why is he on pills, this makes no sense?"...then it hit her in the middle of the trailer like "wait, this is not John Wick why does he look like John Wick in this?"

The final realization that this was a new Matrix movie and not another John Wick had her a bit sad. She's meh on Matrix but loves that damn John Wick.
How do you watch a trailer with no context? You just click a random video without looking or was this on TV as a commercial?
 
Oct 28, 2017
27,290
My son was watching trains on youtube from my phone but I casted it to the tv and the trailer played and she just happened to be in the room while it was on. I didn't even know she was paying attention to it till she asked me if Fishbourne was in this one...which makes sense cause I thought she was talking about Morpheus and and not the Bowery King.
 

CesareNorrez

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,531
You can see a good showing of the original print here (forget the 4K panel, as many people says in the comments it doesn't actually look like this):



What is the age of this print? How was it stored? What kind of stock was it printed on? Who scanned it, when was it scanned, and what did they use to scan it? They fact that they can't even get the 4K panel correct looking is also concerning as that is a digital source.

There's a reason they go back to the original camera negative (OCN), for major films anyway, when restoring a film and don't scan a 35mm release print if they don't have to (it would be the last film anyone would use when restoring a film. The internegative would be better as that is what all the 35mm prints would copy, but more than likely the interpositive would be available if the OCN isn't. These would all still theoretically be of lesser quality than the OCN. Although the protection interpostive may ultimately be a better source as it's seen less action than the negative and is a finished version of the film, and it's just safer to use). The 35mm prints are made to be projected on a screen. Film isn't just scanned by a machine and it comes out looking perfect. It requires work. And obviously the OCN itself requires a ton of work, too. This is what leads to "poor" remasters. They could be using and referencing film from any step in the process. Ideally you have notes on the color timing process. But those notes aren't always easy to translate from an analog to digital process. Not to mention you can be way more specific in the digital realm than you can when chemically color timing film. When we speak of an artist's original intent, they may simply have not been able to replicate what they imagined because the tools or process were not available. And it's why you often hear the creatives say the latest transfer looks better than the film ever looked. They could tweak it like never before and they are working from either original material or closer to original material. A 35mm release print is a copy of a copy of a copy of a copy.
 

cognizant

Member
Dec 19, 2017
13,756
Rewatching the trailer for the 101st time and the thing that keeps affecting me is the shot of Neo in the bathtub, seemingly crying, but with that stoic look it's like he has no idea why he's so upset, why he's grieving. If this movie's main narrative thrust is about a depressed man recovering from loss, it's gonna be amazing. The Wachowskis moments of third act triumph in their movies, especially post-Matrix is stunning. From Speed Racer's last lap in the final race, Cloud Atlas's multiple crescendos, to Sense8's moments of epiphanies and orgies.

It's going to be wild.
 

molnizzle

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
17,695
The DVD grading is how I remember it looking in theaters. They didn't add the green shit until the shitty sequels came out.

Green tint crew have bad taste and are not to be trusted on anything.
 

molnizzle

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
17,695
Yeah I'm an A/V snob but iTunes 4K video quality is pretty difficult to distinguish from UHD discs most of the time.

The audio though… that I notice. Snob though.
 

Patitoloco

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
23,714
What is the age of this print? How was it stored? What kind of stock was it printed on? Who scanned it, when was it scanned, and what did they use to scan it? They fact that they can't even get the 4K panel correct looking is also concerning as that is a digital source.

There's a reason they go back to the original camera negative (OCN), for major films anyway, when restoring a film and don't scan a 35mm release print if they don't have to (it would be the last film anyone would use when restoring a film. The internegative would be better as that is what all the 35mm prints would copy, but more than likely the interpositive would be available if the OCN isn't. These would all still theoretically be of lesser quality than the OCN. Although the protection interpostive may ultimately be a better source as it's seen less action than the negative and is a finished version of the film, and it's just safer to use). The 35mm prints are made to be projected on a screen. Film isn't just scanned by a machine and it comes out looking perfect. It requires work. And obviously the OCN itself requires a ton of work, too. This is what leads to "poor" remasters. They could be using and referencing film from any step in the process. Ideally you have notes on the color timing process. But those notes aren't always easy to translate from an analog to digital process. Not to mention you can be way more specific in the digital realm than you can when chemically color timing film. When we speak of an artist's original intent, they may simply have not been able to replicate what they imagined because the tools or process were not available. And it's why you often hear the creatives say the latest transfer looks better than the film ever looked. They could tweak it like never before and they are working from either original material or closer to original material. A 35mm release print is a copy of a copy of a copy of a copy.
I have no clue why you think I can answer any of this.
 

Anustart

9 Million Scovilles
Avenger
Nov 12, 2017
9,060
If they actually made a red and blue pill version of the movie....

Double the box office revenue, still classifies as one movie, WATCH OUT AVATAR
 

cognizant

Member
Dec 19, 2017
13,756
I'm waiting patiently for the movie to explain wtf is up with Morpheus, but I have sympathy for people who are disgruntled, because at the end of the day Lana brought back two dead characters, but recast the one guy who still lived lol...
 

mbpm

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,753
Wild theory: Fishburne isn't the Morpheus shown bc he's actually the new villain pulling strings behind the scenes and will show up in end credits scene
 

Liquidsnake

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,993
What if this is a prequel and Morpheus is a younger version of himself? Otherwise it just seems silly not to have him.
 

greatgeek

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,816
Pretty sure Morpheus is dead. The new "Morpheus" is a machine or Zion program that guides potential red pills in the post-truce Matrix.
 

cognizant

Member
Dec 19, 2017
13,756
Another shower thought I had was what if this story takes place hundreds of years after Revolutions (the idea being Neo and Trinity are only digital minds), but
I read that Niobe is in the movie
...so that far future theory went out the window. (then again, maybe only the first minutes of the movie are set immediately after Revolutions, then the movie time skips far ahead?)

I like the idea because it reminds me of Aronofsky's The Fountain, another tale of a man trying to get over losing the love of his life.
 

Vex

Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,213
Damn, now kojima has got me thinking if the whole "The choice is yours" promotionals have anything to do with how the movie is distributed... If there is a red/blue version like pokemon I will simultaneously be excited and pissed at the same time.

Excited because we get two spins on the same movie. Pissed because you know everyone else is gonna try to do the same thing for $$$... and execute very poorly at that.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,215
Damn, now kojima has got me thinking if the whole "The choice is yours" promotionals have anything to do with how the movie is distributed... If there is a red/blue version like pokemon I will simultaneously be excited and pissed at the same time.

Excited because we get two spins on the same movie. Pissed because you know everyone else is gonna try to do the same thing for $$$... and execute very poorly at that.

With it being on HBO Max, I'd be okay with it. See the Red Pill in theaters, and then check out Blue Pill at home.
 

jett

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
44,672
I have officially watched this trailer an embarrassing amount of times.