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The level of interaction in RDR2 is insane

Dr Pears

Dr Pears

Member
Sep 9, 2018
2,677
Its just sad that this level of interaction didn't make it to any of the main story missions.

One thing I absolutely love about Death Stranding is the complete freedom in the way you tackle missions. You can use trucks, bring powerful military grade weapons, you can even clear enemy bases before accepting a mission to make it easier. There was never a "You Failed" screen for going off the beaten path.
 
tryagainlater

tryagainlater

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,253
I think I saved 5 dudes from snakebites. Granted it was the same guy twice and Arthur commented on how the hell this keeps happening.
 
Prine

Prine

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Hugare said:
Exactly

It's all smoke and mirrors. When you start, you think that these interactions are organic.

But the more you play, you begin to realise that what you once thought as organic was in fact a lot of scripted sequences.

The world of RDR 2 is full of them, giving you an idea that "anything can happen", but listening to other players experiences, you start to realise that everyone experienced the same things

That guy being killed by his horse, "Gavin", the dude buying you a gun ...

RDR 2 world feels lived in, but it sure as hell does not have as much emergent situations as you may think

They should have randomized those events in order to make the game replayable.

Like, the guy being kicked by his horse appearing 1 out of 3 gameplays or something
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None of those are emergent interactions though, and don't pretend to be. RDR2 is about the nuance in the shift in day that brings in a variety of birds and wildlife for you to hunt and replenish ammo, the subtle way your horse reacts to imminent danger, the variety of ways you can fool enforcers, the howling of dying animals depending on what weapons you use which indicates the purity of your kill, striking vistas so distinct the game provides little In the way of markers for treasure maps, just roughly drawn sketches, I can go on and on, it's filled with detail and scenarios that come from mundane situations, that is emergence in the truest sense, my story and interaction of the world is my own, the story is Arthur's.
 
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AllChan7

AllChan7

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Apr 30, 2019
3,670
sinny said:
Rdr2 will remembered as one of the most overrated games ever.

maybe because gow it's a better game.
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RDR2 is a technical achievement that is gonna influence open world games goibg forward.

Not to say GoW won't influence semi open world game design in the same way but which game is "better" is subjective and depends on the person but I think most will agree both games deserved all the praise they got
 
Pascal

Pascal

â–˛ Legend â–˛
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Oct 28, 2017
10,257
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Yeah if y'all could stop trying to turn this thread into another boring-ass GoW vs RDR2 debate then that would be swell.
 
AllChan7

AllChan7

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Apr 30, 2019
3,670
RDR2's insane lvl of detail and how the world itself is designed still brings me joy. Although the human cost does put a damper on things so I surely don't expect every open world game to be anywhere near as detailed besides Cyberpunk
 
Yossarian

Yossarian

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
13,267
Yeah, I'm just finishing up post-story and I'm still impressed with how the game sucks me in.

I think the key is the combination of the game world's level interactivity and the really strong main cast (possibly my favourite in gaming); you care about the characters because you can interact with them on a near RPG level: you can chat with them, drink with them, overheard conversations, go on activities with them, etc. It also helps that it is a damn fine Western in every respect.

Like, I did nearly twenty minutes of in-game chores at camp tonight because it felt like what the character would do, and it didn't feel like I was wasting time.
 
HK-47

HK-47

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,620
Yossarian said:
Not sure I agree. It's too much of a slow burn, demands too much from the player, and does some (I'd say) fairly brave things narratively and mechanically to simply be termed casual.
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Sorry but games that sell 25-30 million copies are games that the casual audience responds to.
 

Deleted member 9100

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I do think the level of interaction in the game is amazing, but the interaction you're referring to is scripted Op.

The character work though is what does it for me. It's my game of the generation by far and Arthur Morgan is my favorite video game character of all time. It's hilarious looking back how everyone was saying he looked so generic and couldn't hold a candle to Marston.
 

Deleted member 135

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Everything around the core gameplay of RDR2 was fantastic... it's just too bad that the core gameplay was over indulgent, slow, frustrating, cumbersome, and archaic.
 
BashNasty

BashNasty

Member
Oct 30, 2017
1,906
This thread has made me realize I should go back and play GoW again. I completed RDR2s main story in 60 hours, but I hated the game for at least 30 hours (I only "beat" it because I really wanted to open up the other area of the map. The world design in that game is amazing even if the actual gameplay is trash). GoW I adored the entire way through.
 
DanceToTheRadio

DanceToTheRadio

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,508
Considering the massive amount of crunch and manpower needed to make the game, will we even see a game of this scale and ambition again from R*? Because I'm salivating at what R* will be able to do with next-gen tech, especially with advancements in AI. Yet, I wonder if even GTA VI will feel as grand and meticulous in some aspects as RDR2. RDR2 is a monumental achievement and a once in a generation type of game.
 
Iwao

Iwao

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Oct 25, 2017
11,818
ckareset said:
Game will be remembered longer than God of War. Not sure how that won GOTY
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It's very simple… out of the 2 front runners, it was the one that had superior gameplay.
Scratch that... it had gameplay mechanics and mission structure that dared to evolve since 2010.

God of War II is going to be released within a small few years and will cement the legacy of the first. I don't think there needs to be another RDR, and if there is we won't see it until 2027.
 
DeaDPooL_jlp

DeaDPooL_jlp

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Oct 31, 2017
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ckareset said:
Game will be remembered longer than God of War. Not sure how that won GOTY
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The fact that you can't possibly fathom how GoW won goty nods renders your opinion invalid. You should be able to not enjoy something as much as others but see why it might still be considered a better product by the majority. Why a pro for anything has to be saying something else is bad is a terrible argument.

"Cake is good because bananas suck!".
 

Deleted member 37917

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Jan 10, 2018
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I remember seeing the seams pretty quickly, and at that point, the novelty really wears off. It feels more like Rockstar brute forcing the game into feeling organic through the incredible budget.
 

Fredrik

Member
Oct 27, 2017
9,003
Yeah it's really something else. They really nailed the open world and how it feels alive like no other game. RDR2's main story missions are old school, Sadie will wait until the end of time in the bar for you to go there and push the story forward. But the side stuff and the things happening in the world is so dynamic that I'm probably never going to stop being impressed by it.

People downplay this "life" as scripted events and we've seen talk about "other games you should never mention in a RDR2 thread" like they're doing things better. But try open up the games in any area where you won't be instantly killed and put down the controller and just look at them.

You won't downplay RDR2 after that.

Seriously, RDR2 is so far ahead of everything else in this area that it becomes ridiculous to try downplay it as being all smoke and mirrors. The world is actually moving, things are happening, no matter what you as a gamer are doing. It's worthy of the praise and the scores. People usually hate on Ubisoft here but they're the only ones who can compete with Rockstar imo, I thought AC Odyssey's game world was brilliant.

Meanwhile, other games are usually completely paused when the gamer do nothing. Clear the area and put down the controller, nothing will happen, if you're lucky you'll see a bird fly by or maybe some water moving. This is the norm. Beneath the surface games are usually about as advanced as a 8-bit NES game in how they wait for you to cross an invicible line before they spawn enemy waves until the area is cleared. Then pause again until you walk across the next trigger line, throw in a cutscene here and there, maybe a boss, a new ability unlock, rinse and repeat, the end.
 
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terawatt

Member
Oct 27, 2017
337
The core gameplay was mediocre, controls even worse. I'm just glad I borrowed it instead of buying it.
 
Cloud-Strife

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ckareset said:
Game will be remembered longer than God of War. Not sure how that won GOTY
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Nope. GoW was the full package in every way possible. From story.. to graphics and gameplay.

RDR2 has everything also except one important thing.. good gameplay

The imput lag and slow response of the controls turned off lots of people from playing the game. Even famous streamers won't play it because is a chore on the gameplay department.

God of War is a masterpiece and part 2 in PS5 is gonna be insane.
 
Earthed

Earthed

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Hugare said:
Exactly

It's all smoke and mirrors. When you start, you think that these interactions are organic.

But the more you play, you begin to realise that what you once thought as organic was in fact a lot of scripted sequences.
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Well... Yeah, no shit. It's a video game. Game development isn't at the point yet where you can actually create worthwhile content procedurally, so everything needs to be made by hand. It's the degree to which they've done this that's impressive.
 
Hugare

Hugare

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Earthed said:
Well... Yeah, no shit. It's a video game. Game development isn't at the point yet where you can actually create worthwhile content procedurally, so everything needs to be made by hand. It's the degree to which they've done this that's impressive.
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Yeah, no

Not everything needs to be made by hand.
Farcry 5 has some emergent elements in the open world, where you can be tackling an enemy group, and then a bear comes running, and then another faction comes up and start firing, and then a fire start where you at and etc.

I wanted more of that on Red Dead. Where you could be robbing an outpost, and then another gang comes in and tries to steel your loot, for example.
I would rather have something like that instead of the same repeated scripted events. It takes me out of the game illusion.

There are not a variety of systems working together to make the game feel "organic". As it was already said on this thread by other users, Rockstar brute forces by injecting scripted events due to the game's gigantic budget, but it really wears off after some time.
 
Earthed

Earthed

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Hugare said:
Yeah, no

Not everything needs to be made by hand.
Farcry 5 has some emergent elements in the open world, where you can be tackling an enemy group, and then a bear comes running, and then another faction comes up and start firing, and then a fire start where you at and etc.

I wanted more of that on Red Dead. Where you could be robbing an outpost, and then another gang comes in and tries to steel your loot, for example.
I would rather have something like that instead of the same repeated scripted events. It takes me out of the game illusion.

There are not a variety of systems working together to make the game feel "organic". As it was already said on this thread by other users, Rockstar brute forces by injecting scripted events due to the game's gigantic budget, but it really wears off after some time.
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RDR2 does have those moments. It has a wildlife system. Random encounters like the one you're describing do occur, mostly by way of the wanted system, but there are random bandit camps around the map too.

As to what you're describing in Far Cry, those aren't systemic things either. They're meaningless blips placed around the map by the devs, like convoy 6 out of 9, or roadblock 23 out of 40. That they might interact with other meaningless blips around the map doesn't suddenly make that meaningful content to me. Sure, guy getting kicked in the head by a horse occurring for the third time jumps out at you, but the first time it happened was still far more meaningful to me than what you described happening in Far Cry 5 ever was. At least I remember it happening, unlike what you're describing in Far Cry 5.
 
Linus815

Linus815

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Oct 29, 2017
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RDR 2's world is by far the most immersive I've explored in a videogame. The crazy attention to detail combined with all the small, unmarked things you can find/witness are amazing. I love the mini events too, even if some of them repeat eventually (but for me, it took playing up to chapter 4 to actually notice that) the dialogue and context is different.

It has several smaller emergent moments, but yes... that isn't the focus. It's not a very dense world, and it's grounded in realism, so of course it makes sense that you don't have freaking bears interrupt gunfights. Far Cry 5 is a crazy, arcadey, over the top and honestly very janky action movie. I love it, but I also do not want my slow burn western simulator to take any cues from it. I mean seriously, go hunting in both games. The animal behaviour in FC is almost non existant, they're just blobs waiting to be slaughtered. It's fun in a way, but very shallow. Hunting is just a means to an end, to tick off some challenges to get skill points. In RDR 2, hunting could very well be its own game. Animal behaviour is advanced, there are multiple gameplay systems at work, and you have to actually work for your kill. Even a badly placed shot can result in immense sadness as you watch the animal limp away, clearly suffering from pain.

I'm perfectly satisfied with small emergent things like capturing some random guy who escaped from prison and taking him back to the sheriff's office for a small reward or helping some random dudes building a house and then coming back a few gameplay hours later only for them to thank me as I pass by for some random reason and see the progress they've made so far.

Or, when you have a party at your campsite and Arthur joins in the singing if you stick around for longer. Smaller, but very striking stuff. Frankly, no other developer does anything like this. The camp alone with all the unique, organic interactions, like when random bypassers join in mid conversation deserve an entire thread on its own, tbh. It's crazy stuff.

Trying to underplay Rockstar's achievement by claiming it's all just brute forced (lol) is kind of eye rolling to be honest.
 

Deleted member 56580

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ckareset said:
Game will be remembered longer than God of War. Not sure how that won GOTY
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For essentially being a better complete package

The more casual game won.
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Lol no the more casual game didn't win anything. rdr's biggest weakness is the gameplay, its everything else that is memorable

demands too much from the player
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Outside of a time commitment its a way too easy game with brain dead AI which you know is the arch definition of casual
 
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