The statue is a person, so by rear they mean ass. They also mean the hands of the statue from the statue's perspective.
Was thinking about it just now, but doesnt Skyward Sword create its own Timeline split?
If Link defeats Demise, Ghirahim AND leaves the Master Sword in the Past, they dont exist in his Present. So in that timeline, wouldnt the people hylia sent to the sky...stay there?
Zelda isn't consistent with time travel logic even within the same games.
The Silent Realm Trials are such blatant filler even for a Zelda game. Like... the trials don't even start in a special place that makes sense narratively (just a random seal that you have to dowse for) and it's just vaguely explained as a spiritual realm that the Goddess manifests for... reasons. The guardians look cool but again... what are they? Just Goddess bots? kinda uninspired. At least the twilight realm made sense in the overall narrative of Twilight encroaching on the land.
Link must complete the trial to improve spiritually which, in the case of the first trial means
.
I reckon they had the main dungeons plotted out but the parts in between hadn't been worked out yet, what would normally have been a mini side quest like getting the propeller using the bot or in Twilight Princess saving the Zora boy (again, arguably filler but at least interesting from a story standpoint), is instead a random mini-game thing.
I don't even dislike them from a gameplay perspective, I just hate how jarring they are contextually.
Link must complete the trial to improve spiritually which, in the case of the first trial means
getting a dragon scale necklace???
I reckon they had the main dungeons plotted out but the parts in between hadn't been worked out yet, what would normally have been a mini side quest like getting the propeller using the bot or in Twilight Princess saving the Zora boy (again, arguably filler but at least interesting from a story standpoint), is instead a random mini-game thing.
I don't even dislike them from a gameplay perspective, I just hate how jarring they are contextually.
Just replayed the Sandship. It's a good dungeon. It's stronger than the Ancient Cistern and certainly more in line with what I want and expect out of a top tier Zelda dungeon, but I find it still suffers from having some unnecessarily linear progression and simplistic puzzles (e.g. stand on a switch and shoot an arrow through a hole) despite the extra floors and the mechanic of shooting the time stone in the middle of the ship. There are a couple of times where it looks like you might have multiple paths to choose from for pretty much the first time in the game, but upon investigation it's usually a dead end. And of course, Tentalus sucks.
One thing I have noticed is that Fi has become more intrusive since finishing the Ancient Cistern after being quite silent for the first 10 hours or so of the remaster. Her compulsory dialogue and propensity to state the obvious has increased in the second Lanayru portion of the game - it's almost like Nintendo didn't have faith that the Wii audience would be able to get their heads around the Pirate Stronghold and Sandship.
Yeah, I need to replay TP to be sure, but from my vague recollections the Lakebed Temple and City in the Sky were more complex than anything in SS so far.
Every single time she's shown up in the game, she has never told me anything that I didn't already know. It's the absolute worst, and I also noticed it got worse at around that point in the game too.
I started this up today and stopped right before going down to the surface.
I went with the motion controls, and overall they worked really well. There were a couple of moments of "WTF" (like trying to pull the sword out of the stone), but that was an issue of me not understanding what it was trying to say than it not working.
However, the one big issue I had with the controls was when receiving the Sailwing. I probably jumped off that platform a good 15-20 times before I was able to navigate to the center of the circle. And when I finally did, it was definitely more luck than anything else.
I really hope there aren't any moments like that later in the game in using the Sailwing, where you need to float to some narrow or relatively small area from above, otherwise I'm going to have a lot of issues.
But with combat, of the minimal amount I had, has worked really well so far. The actions I've wanted to do I've completed.
I went with the motion controls, and overall they worked really well. There were a couple of moments of "WTF" (like trying to pull the sword out of the stone), but that was an issue of me not understanding what it was trying to say than it not working.
However, the one big issue I had with the controls was when receiving the Sailwing. I probably jumped off that platform a good 15-20 times before I was able to navigate to the center of the circle. And when I finally did, it was definitely more luck than anything else.
I really hope there aren't any moments like that later in the game in using the Sailwing, where you need to float to some narrow or relatively small area from above, otherwise I'm going to have a lot of issues.
But with combat, of the minimal amount I had, has worked really well so far. The actions I've wanted to do I've completed.
Much like the Lanaryu mining facility, for the sandhip I get the love but I don't feel the love
Conceptually it's great, one of the few dungeons in the series with an in dungeon layout that fits its visual (of course most zelda dungeon visuals from the exterior are just temple entrances, so not a large category)
It makes good use of all the obligatory ship parts/features, even down to a lifeboat.
But as DIE BART DIE just pointed out, the actual puzzles sure are shooting the bow at targets in ever so slightly different ways.
There's a really strong base here but I dunno, the sandship is just so committed to its centered timestone idea, but not much else in the individual areas makes that big an impact, more stuff like the engine room (I guess that's what the lower hull area is supposed to be) to shake things up would've been nice.
Tangibly related to sandship due to its acquisition in the desert, but the twin hookshots being effectively downgraded versions of the TP dual hookshots with nothing extra nor a motion control flair makes them really underwhelming here, not too surprising the sandship dosn't have much to do with them, maybe they could've rolled an upgrade into the whip instead.
Pre boss set piece is nice though, I don't hate Tantalus as much as everyone else seems to, though it loses major marks for BIG EYEBALL WEAKSPOT
The pirate captain on the other hand is tops, the limitations of movement really put you on the spot and tug of war aspects shake it up from the other sword focused encounters.
Ancient Cistern may be pretty easy, sandship will certainly stump players more (I know it got me wandering a fair bit on my first run), but Cistern strikes me as more consistently engaging to actually play, even if the Sandship is smarter in design so to speak.
Fi DOES get worse during the Sandship and a few sections prior, it's bizarre after some early areas of the game in this version like Eldin, had me forgetting she was in the game
Spitballing here but I speculate two reasons here...
1. The sandship is probably the more stumping worthy dungeon in the game, since it's like the first Zelda dungeon in yonks at this point that requires some backtracking and a bit of pre-planning, this is the dungeon after all with the infamous "fi solves the cool puzzle for you" moment in the original version (note she still buzzes immediately when you enter the room). Maybe Nintendo just feel like this one has to have a bit more guidance or something
2. Mainly for pre dungeon segments, Fi's interruptions while a bit intrusive, do serve to immediately set the goal when you land on the individual areas in the sandsea.
Hopefully she hops back in the sword for Eldin part 2.
Conceptually it's great, one of the few dungeons in the series with an in dungeon layout that fits its visual (of course most zelda dungeon visuals from the exterior are just temple entrances, so not a large category)
It makes good use of all the obligatory ship parts/features, even down to a lifeboat.
But as DIE BART DIE just pointed out, the actual puzzles sure are shooting the bow at targets in ever so slightly different ways.
There's a really strong base here but I dunno, the sandship is just so committed to its centered timestone idea, but not much else in the individual areas makes that big an impact, more stuff like the engine room (I guess that's what the lower hull area is supposed to be) to shake things up would've been nice.
Tangibly related to sandship due to its acquisition in the desert, but the twin hookshots being effectively downgraded versions of the TP dual hookshots with nothing extra nor a motion control flair makes them really underwhelming here, not too surprising the sandship dosn't have much to do with them, maybe they could've rolled an upgrade into the whip instead.
Pre boss set piece is nice though, I don't hate Tantalus as much as everyone else seems to, though it loses major marks for BIG EYEBALL WEAKSPOT
The pirate captain on the other hand is tops, the limitations of movement really put you on the spot and tug of war aspects shake it up from the other sword focused encounters.
Ancient Cistern may be pretty easy, sandship will certainly stump players more (I know it got me wandering a fair bit on my first run), but Cistern strikes me as more consistently engaging to actually play, even if the Sandship is smarter in design so to speak.
I know it was just mentioned on this page, but I feel like I need to quote the original poster warning us all days ago!
Fi DOES get worse during the Sandship and a few sections prior, it's bizarre after some early areas of the game in this version like Eldin, had me forgetting she was in the game
Spitballing here but I speculate two reasons here...
1. The sandship is probably the more stumping worthy dungeon in the game, since it's like the first Zelda dungeon in yonks at this point that requires some backtracking and a bit of pre-planning, this is the dungeon after all with the infamous "fi solves the cool puzzle for you" moment in the original version (note she still buzzes immediately when you enter the room). Maybe Nintendo just feel like this one has to have a bit more guidance or something
2. Mainly for pre dungeon segments, Fi's interruptions while a bit intrusive, do serve to immediately set the goal when you land on the individual areas in the sandsea.
Hopefully she hops back in the sword for Eldin part 2.
I've always found there to be a criminal lack of Mogma love among Zelda fans, they're great and need to return.
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Well, I only put in an hour tonight so I can say that this game probably had the shortest play session I've ever had for a Zelda game lol. I noped right the fuck out when that fucking robot just had to go to the start of the mountain instead of the summit and now wants me to guard him the whole way. Not in the mood for that kind of shit.
The only issue is Demise... technically. The Master/Goddess Sword of the past is already up in Skyloft, and aslong as Demise exists he can bring back a Ghirahim clone. Afterall, it is his sword.
Though what happens... is still up to debate. The Ocarine of Time split happened because the Door of Time closed itself separating both times again, and as such splitting the timeline when Link revealed his future knowledge to Zelda. However, the split causing event in Skyward Sword happens when the Gate of Time is still opened, which should have the timeline correct itself. In similar fashion to how it happened with the Tree of Life. However, the timeline does not correct itself, even if it should have, which leaves us two options (excluding the obvious "Nintendo doesn't care" one):
1. The Sealing Spike of the present is actually the Master Sword and The Imprisoned is Demise's consciousness that was sealed in the sword. Sometime in the milllenias between past and present, Impa decided to move them to the pit for precaution.
2. To stop a paradox from ocurring, Impa took Demise's consciousness out of the blade, and sealed it in the pit. Then she hid the Master Sword using Sheikah magic, that being why it doesn't appear in the temple until she passes away. We know she can make "simple seals" that hold off events triggered by the Dragons, so doing this wouldn't be out of the norm. It would also explain why the seal is suddenly breaking so easily. Even though it supposedly went intact for millenia.
Though, even with a timeline split, the pre-Hylians from Skyloft would still return to the Surface. Since per Gaepora, the Goddess will return to the surface once Demise has been defeated (for exact wording, refer to the first talk with Gaepora after the Isle of the Goddess falls). So if Demise is truly gone in the past, the Isle of the Goddess would fall and Skyloftians could come down to the Surface. Just how it happened in the present.
Though what happens... is still up to debate. The Ocarine of Time split happened because the Door of Time closed itself separating both times again, and as such splitting the timeline when Link revealed his future knowledge to Zelda. However, the split causing event in Skyward Sword happens when the Gate of Time is still opened, which should have the timeline correct itself. In similar fashion to how it happened with the Tree of Life. However, the timeline does not correct itself, even if it should have, which leaves us two options (excluding the obvious "Nintendo doesn't care" one):
1. The Sealing Spike of the present is actually the Master Sword and The Imprisoned is Demise's consciousness that was sealed in the sword. Sometime in the milllenias between past and present, Impa decided to move them to the pit for precaution.
2. To stop a paradox from ocurring, Impa took Demise's consciousness out of the blade, and sealed it in the pit. Then she hid the Master Sword using Sheikah magic, that being why it doesn't appear in the temple until she passes away. We know she can make "simple seals" that hold off events triggered by the Dragons, so doing this wouldn't be out of the norm. It would also explain why the seal is suddenly breaking so easily. Even though it supposedly went intact for millenia.
Though, even with a timeline split, the pre-Hylians from Skyloft would still return to the Surface. Since per Gaepora, the Goddess will return to the surface once Demise has been defeated (for exact wording, refer to the first talk with Gaepora after the Isle of the Goddess falls). So if Demise is truly gone in the past, the Isle of the Goddess would fall and Skyloftians could come down to the Surface. Just how it happened in the present.
I agree, the only great quality of that dungeon is the atmosphere.
I also enjoyed the time dungeons more, both the mining facility and the ship.
I'm thinking about picking this up, and I'm not happy about it 😕
I want some adventure puzzling in my life. But last time I played SS it was like an 80 hour investment. I don't know if I have that in me.
80 hours?! I'll admit I'm moving along somewhat quickly due to having played the original, but I'm on my way to the 5th dungeon now, and have only around 20 hours or so of playtime, while trying to keep up with side quests.
All this dungeon talk made me realize how little of an impression the mining facility made on me lol. The post above made me realize that literally just a few days later I'd already forgotten everything about it, and when trying to think of what was actually in the dungeon, the only things I was remembering was the puzzles in the desert leading up it the actual dungeon itself.
I agree it's one of the more simplistic dungeons but it's fun that it's a thematic adaptation of Ryunosuke Akutagawa's The Spider's Thread. I'd like to see them do more stuff like that. I think TP dungeons are far superior but the themes and concepts at least put SS well above the dungeons in WW.
It was the longest a Zelda game had ever taken me, and I remember being shocked by the playtime. I got absolutely everything there was to get, and on top of that the Wii version was more slow-going. It added up.
It's just like what the Washington Post talked about Skyward's Sword
It really does feel like while some of the problems have been fixed here. There's so many things that needed to be fixed, but it couldn't because it would be too much for a simple HD remaster.
Someone earlier had posted that you don't need dowsing to beat the game and I got up to the Sandship and you absolutely do need dowsing for that shit. Even with dowsing it took me like half an hour to get those 3 hits because the ship kept moving and I couldn't fire while dowsing and seemingly kept missing. Absolutely infuriating of a game session there.
Dowsing is the worst and a clear example of how the Wii-minded thinking negatively impacts the game.
I think part of it is just having decent puzzle design with more modern production values. Sure, there's no real mind benders in SS, but there's a lot of memorable little moments that TWW and TP just lack, like that cheeky bomb wall in the Earth Temple or the rotating segment in the Ancient Cistern. The Sandship is perhaps the only dungeon truly designed with the N64 principles since 2000 and is easily the strongest since then. The seventh dungeon was a creative stroke of genius.
I feel there's not really any singular aspect that TWW or TP dungeons are better in except perhaps that sense of grandeur that pervades TP, and the presentation strides they made between MM and SS was staggering.
I'll also add - while the N64 games did have a few great labyrinths, they weren't really the majority. OoT had the Forest, Water, and Spirit Temples, while MM had the latter two. I don't feel the remaining eight dungeons have any real leg up on SS in terms of complexity.
Having just played through the part Washington Post mentions with the Gust Bellows, I think that's an odd criticism. Yeah, there are piles of dust that often contain enemies underneath, but no, they're not the point. Moving propeller-based platforms (which takes some aiming and finesse) and the puzzles around them, as well as some wind-based switches and enemies (Armos, Froaks) are the main uses of it. And in that respect it's a fun item.
And with the Digging Mitts, sure, the mitts themselves are a "key" with no particular gameplay beyond "X marks the spot," but I think finding or remembering those spots is the point, and it works that way.
I'm only halfway through the game, but so far, Skyward Sword is making me think and making me feel smart, on a near-constant basis, with so many clever ideas layering together. I'm still thinking about Lanayru Desert and the Lanayru Mining Facility a day later — a true highlight of this series.
LOL and people were complaining about breakable weapons in BotW. What's the point of a shield, really. I used it like 10 times, the iron one, upgraded. And it broke and it's gone, spent stuff upgrading it and it's not even fixable lol
Nice one Nintendo.
Nice one Nintendo.
They should either have a option for like "20 Rupees to restore your weapon without a problem" or have you do a thing where your stuff doesn't break. Having breakable stuff is supposed to encourage you to try different things but it ends up making you worry about using a thing at all.
I'm just surprised this game got 10/10s everywhere when it came out. I'm on the 5th Dungeon at the moment and this is a solid 7.5 to me.
Didn't the reviewers criticise the repetitiveness?
Yeah, it's especially silly in this game because there's no practical way to get a replacement when you're knee-deep in a dungeon. Breakable shields just makes it feel pointless to use a shield at all.
OP
OP
Don't just let the shield eat damage. Shield bash (aka parry).
Fix your damaged shield at the repair shop.
Haha I had to look what that is, I hadn't even learnt the ability.
OP
OP
Don't you learn that right at the start? It must tell you when you get the first shield, no? That's how you're meant to defeat all the Octoroks in the forest.
I never got the shield before going to the surface. I was beating the octoroks by reflecting their projectiles using my sword. I then realized I should have a shield so I went back to Skyloft and bought one before entering the first dungeon. After first dungeon I bought the iron shield because someone suggested the wooden one won't be ok for Eldin Volcano. I upgraded it before entering the 2nd dungeon but it quickly broke. I made it in the hole dungeon without using a shield at all, the lizards guarding the bomb bag was the toughest part.
After beating the first two dungeons I randomly talked to the guy that gave me the first shield for free. So now I have two, the one I bought and this one.
I beat The Imprisoned for the first time, doing the standard toe stratergy. It took like 4 minutes, it was fun. The concept is also really neat and the reactivating of the seal is a great scene. Next one isn't for quite a while and even then I know I'll be able to employ a different stratergy (jumping on from above) and I don't think it will take much longer than 4 minutes then either.
Don't get the hate.
Don't get the hate.
I will say that I totally get that part about the gust bellows on small mounds, those little shrimp enemies are just, the most pointless time wasters and when you unearth your tenth it's like "we're still doing this huh?"
Though Neiteio is right about the items usage otherwise in the dungeon.
I think a lot of it comes down to having not only a third encounter, but depending on players choice at a certain section, it can happen incredibly soon after the second fight.
So add some still sticking to toe tactics and you get a lot of grumble.
But the bullet and ordered the game for £35 on eBay thanks to their 20% off promo that's currently running.
Should be arriving today.
Should be arriving today.
I think for me, the reason both the Gust Bellows and Digging Mitts feel slightly underwhelming is that they had more versatile and useful analogues in The Minish Cap. The Gust Jar could suck things towards you (and fire them back again) and the mitts could be used to carve out sections of certain walls, which made for more puzzle opportunities.
Still, SS is better than TP for having a small but versatile toolset that gets frequent use throughout the game, with less gimmicky items that only get used in the dungeon they're found in. The beetle is particularly good. As Nocturnowl suggested, there's probably some commonality between the twin hookshots and whip that perhaps could've allowed them to be rolled into one upgrade, but in general I like SS's gadgets.
The durabilty purpose in SS is different from BotW.
Shield Bash (push your left joycon forwards or press L stick) when used to parry will make the enemy drop their guard (and be vulnerable to most/any slash) and will not damage the Shield. Keeping the Shield up will not only reduce damage but also prevent the enemy from reading your slashes as well.
In other words, the Shield is rather OP and they nerfed it through durability, so you don't spam shield bash all the time.
If your Shield is too damaged, change to a different one before it breaks, or remove it, or use a potion to heal shields (you can buy them in Skyloft and even enhance it to be used automatically to prevent the Shield from breaking, fairy-style).
I'm not saying you're wrong about what's intended, but it's impossible to learn all this in-game if the big, defining experience you get with the shield is "use shield > shield breaks > no shield."
What the game taught me was definitely not that the shield was OP. Quite the opposite.
Edit to add:
To elaborate, my impression of shields in this game is that they're an optional system you can engage with if you want to and that involves a lot of back-and-forth busywork. The game is not that hard and it's perfectly possible to complete it while not (or barely) using shields at all, so if you do find yourself stuck in a dungeon without one early in the game, it's fine to just disengage and forget about shields.
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OP
OP
after multiple characters strongly suggest (they specifically mention checking out the shops to buy stuff for your new adventure pouch, like potions and a shield) you get yourself a shield before you leave for the surface the first time, you can do a shield tutorial at the sparring hall. I didn't even realize Owlan gives you a free wooden shield if you talk to him. I think both times I bought mine at the shop. This is the thing, you're kinda saying you were left to your own devices and thus missed some bits of info that were optional. I'm sure you wouldn't say they should force this info onto you but that is sort of how we ended up with all the tutorials and stuff. Situations like these.
You'd figure all of this out by checking out the potions at some point, possibly doing the shield tutorial with the Knight Commander, or accidentally parrying out in the wild yourself (the "help" button that tells you your control/move options also tells you about the shield bash, I think). You're not expected to know all of this instantly, but if you find yourself having problems with certain items or whatever, you may have missed something.
I am about to head to the surface for the first time. Are there other 'required' areas that need use of the Sailcloth (locations including out of the way treasure chests or moving forward in the area/dungeon) ? Like somewhere narrow or small you need to land?
I hope not, as when I made that jump with the Sailcloth to land in the center of that circle as part of the ceremony was a total pain. Still can't figure out how I did it. Was more luck than anything.
I hope not, as when I made that jump with the Sailcloth to land in the center of that circle as part of the ceremony was a total pain. Still can't figure out how I did it. Was more luck than anything.
My issue isn't with the lack of tutorials. As you say, there were more than enough of them.
My issue is with the construction of the game systems. I'm sure almost all players will buy a shield before setting out, but if you lose your shield in a dungeon - which I'd argue is very likely to happen early in the game - there is no way of getting another one unless you go all the way back to Skyloft. That's the game teaching you naturally, through gameplay, to play the game without a shield. It's the game practically forcing you to learn how to do so.
It's not surprising that some players will learn "shield = not important" from this. If the developers didn't want that effect in the game, they could have reconsidered the game's setup that creates that effect. Maybe they could have put shops in more locations, made shield restoration items available as pickups while in dungeons, even just make shields durable for longer so you're less likely to lose it early.
To put it another way, I wasn't missing information about how to use a shield. I just didn't care and didn't need to care. It doesn't matter how well the game explains how to use a shield if you don't actually have a shield and never need one.
I'm not very far in yet, but I'm just kind of soaking up all the traditional 3D Zelda-y shit in SSHD lol. It all feels so damn comforting, I really missed it.
Also the Waterfall Cave looks really nice; I like the way the light shines in.
Also the Waterfall Cave looks really nice; I like the way the light shines in.
I forgot how entertaining Ghirahim is. Other Zelda villains play the evil or edge straight, but this guy is fully self-aware about how theatrical and villainous he is. It's a great change of pace.
I think what really puts SS dungeons over the edge is that this is the first time that dungeons feel like large, singular spaces, instead of separate rooms connected by doors. The Beetle and puzzels play into this. The rooms in general are bigger and more spacious and you can leave a lot of them without interruption and this makes them feel a lot more real.
I think what really puts SS dungeons over the edge is that this is the first time that dungeons feel like large, singular spaces, instead of separate rooms connected by doors. The Beetle and puzzels play into this. The rooms in general are bigger and more spacious and you can leave a lot of them without interruption and this makes them feel a lot more real.
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