The Last of Us Part II - Spoiler Thread Part II

SunBroDave · Jun 25, 2020

residentgrigo said:
I finished listening to the spoiler cast for the game and so should you:

Last of Us 2 Spoilercast w/ Neil Druckmann, Ashley Johnson, Troy Baker - Gamescast Ep. 26

Director and co-writer Neil Druckmann, Ashley Johnson (Ellie), and Troy Baker (Joel) join Greg to talk about EVERY DETAIL of The Last of Us Part II. SPOILERS...

www.youtube.com

No (story) DLC is planned according to Druckman unlike with the first. This teaser in Uncharted 4 might still lead to something though:

This woman isn´t Abby or "anyone from this story". Druckman further said "I hope we one day got to tell that story". Whatever this is, it is vaguely canon.
The original comic that leads directy into Left Behind:

The Last of Us: American Dreams - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Is that Ellie? I know it looks like she has all her left hand digits, but It sure looks like the revolver Ellie took from Joel's house.

Xeteh · Jun 25, 2020

MadLaughter said:
One of my favorite shots in the game:

I honestly liked the California stuff overall. But when it lets me control Ellie while she's running the ranch with Dina and Tommy shows up. I really wanted Ellie to be like "She could have killed us twice." Her leaving Dina was probably my least favorite moment of the game. I hated the whole narrative that you needed to regret your actions. How can I regret my actions when I never have the choice?

Azzanadra · Jun 25, 2020

NKnight7 said:
I think I'm going to agree with others and say that I think I enjoyed the second section of the game more than the first now that I've thought about it. Abby has so many memorable moments and encounters like the Rat King and the whole island sequence and I remember for much of her section I was just glued to the TV screen and eager to see what would happen next.

From a story and character point of view still I preferred Ellie's sections because she and Dina were just too damn adorable, but from a gameplay, level design, and encounter design point of view, Abby was better. I even liked her upgrade trees and weapons more.

Mugen X · Jun 25, 2020

SecondNature said:
Once again: Abby letting Ellie and Tommy go is tough for me to swallow, when she already let both of them go once and they killed all her friends in retaliation.

It doesnt make sense to me at all that Abby would even trust both of them to not finish the job, no matter how much you buy into the deeper moral realizations these characters are supposed to develop.

And while I get Lev weighing down on Abby's conscious, I think writing the story to give Owen that role would have been much more impactful. Despite going through a lot with Lev, I just struggle to buy into Abby and Lev's relationship being deeper than Abby wanting vengeance for her friends. On the other hand, I bought into Abby and Owen's relationship a lot. I hated Ellie a lot for killing Owen.

As a player, seeing Owen, Manny, Mel, etc. all die justified Ellie dying to Abby. I bought into those characters, and their bond with Abby is supposed to be deeper than Abby spending 3 days with Lev.

And in the end, when Ellie spares Abby, I'm not sure how anyone makes the connection of Ellie realizing Abby and Lev are in the same positions Ellie and Joel were in, because Ellie doesn't even acknowledge Lev outside of threatening to kill him.

People want to say Ellie has a moral realization, but why does she have that with Abby, but not Mel (who was fucking pregnant)? That was a really morbid scene, Ellie has a panic attack, but after that... she's right back on the warpath.

To me that entire scene speaks to how Abby feels about Lev at that point, she was clearly more than motivated to kill Ellie and everyone and she nearly did. But Lev calling out to her imo is the same affect Ellie telling Joel to stop would have had on Joel. The same way Ellie affected Joel, Lev affected Abby imo. This story just shows you the lengths ppl will go to for love, both good and bad, I'm not saying Abby has love for Lev at that point but he was clearly her reason for stopping.

As for Ellie I interpreted her letting Abby go as a product of her thinking about the last convo she had with Joel, she also seemed kind of reserved in terms of whether or not she still wanted to kill Abby at first. I try to judge these characters based on whether their decisions are believable, regardless of whether I agree with it or understand it. At first I didn't like at all that they made Ellie go bk out for revenge and leave the farmhouse, but then she tells Dina "I don't eat, I don't sleep, I'm not like you" and that's all I needed to hear lol. We don't always agree or even understand why ppl do the things they do but it all felt believable to me. Sorry for the long reply.

bastardly · Jun 25, 2020

doing NG+ right now, playing scorched earth this time around and damn i love the shotgun, just shreds everything in its way.

ClickyCal' · Jun 25, 2020

Xeteh said:
I honestly liked the California stuff overall. But when it lets me control Ellie while she's running the ranch with Dina and Tommy shows up. I really wanted Ellie to be like "She could have killed us twice." Her leaving Dina was probably my least favorite moment of the game. I hated the whole narrative that you needed to regret your actions. How can I regret my actions when I never have the choice?

These games aren't choice ones. Just like you didn't have a choice to have Joel not get Ellie or lie to her.

Death Metalist · Jun 25, 2020

Mugen X said:
As for Ellie I interpreted her letting Abby go as a product of her thinking about the last convo she had with Joel, she also seemed kind of reserved in terms of whether or not she still wanted to kill Abby at first. I try to judge these characters based on whether their decisions are believable, regardless of whether I agree with it or understand it. At first I didn't like at all that they made Ellie go bk out for revenge and leave the farmhouse, but then she tells Dina "I don't eat, I don't sleep, I'm not like you" and that's all I needed to hear lol. We don't always agree or even understand why ppl do the things they do but it all felt believable to me. Sorry for the long reply.

In Ellie's journal we can see that as time went on she forgets how to draw Joel's face and she even questions herself if what she is doing even have meaning anymore(paraphrasing here).

BloodHound · Jun 25, 2020

cantbebothered said:
i know doesnt change the fact she and her crew did before, i mean murder in that world isnt a big of deal

im talking abouut this part

I know what part you are talking about.
But it still doesn't change what the poster said. That's all I'm saying.

cantbebothered · Jun 25, 2020

MadLaughter said:
I don't think Abby and her friends actually shot those kids I think the WLF did, but yeah still she's fairly cold here but part of it is that she hasn't experienced the repercussions of her actions psychologically or physically yet

yeah. she was cold there, which make me think she wouldnt think twice. if it wasn't for Owen she wouldn't go back for lev and his sister

BloodHound said:
I know what part you are talking about.
But it still doesn't change what the poster said. That's all I'm saying.

i dont disagree with you, im just saying just because she didnt do nothing after jackson. which we dont know for sure because we start playing as her few months after joels death.
btw i love Abby.

Shark · Jun 25, 2020

goodretina said:
Some people have made posts about how character X is a sociopath or character Y lacks humanity. I think if you feel that way about any non-villain main character on either side then you have completely missed the point.

The picking and choosing of who is 'good' or 'bad' says way more about the person justifying their feelings than the actual characters. Of those that live only Lev and Dina are those that come out unscathed IMO. I think everyone else is pretty depraved and awful but Abby at least gives her existence meaning and purpose that Ellie completely lets go of.

Ploid 6.0 · Jun 25, 2020

Xeteh said:
I honestly liked the California stuff overall. But when it lets me control Ellie while she's running the ranch with Dina and Tommy shows up. I really wanted Ellie to be like "She could have killed us twice." Her leaving Dina was probably my least favorite moment of the game. I hated the whole narrative that you needed to regret your actions. How can I regret my actions when I never have the choice?

Because it was Ellie's, the player isn't the one making choices. You couldn't refuse to kill the doctor in the first game, and you couldn't stay to help Tess fight even though she wanted you to go.

SecondNature · Jun 25, 2020

VinFTW said:
I dont know, her transformation throughout the entire 2nd half of the game totally resonated with me. Her letting ellie go was a representation of the good soul she turned into. Ellie probably reminds her of herself in a lot of ways. It didn't feel off to me at all.

Fuck... You're probably right.

I resonated more with the wlf crew especially owen

no one is even talking about alice yet tons of people would go into a rage if their own dog was killed

Mary Celeste · Jun 25, 2020

cantbebothered said:
i know doesnt change the fact she and her crew did before, i mean murder in that world isnt a big of deal

im talking abouut this part

She never kills the kids. She's referring to the WLF as a whole.

molnizzle · Jun 25, 2020

Man I had mostly great things to say about the game, but there are some heinously poor design choices that really sour the overall experience.

Like right now, in theater as Abby, stealth segment against armed Ellie. Instant fail discovery mechanic and I can't figure out what to do. Died 4 times now. I don't have time for stupid bullshit like this, Naughty Dog. Nobody is playing your game for this trash. It shouldn't be here.

mordecaii83 · Jun 25, 2020

SecondNature said:
She lost everything because she let Ellie live, and when she has a chance to kill her, she peaces out. She doesn't even kill Tommy. Even if you want to say that Lev transformed Abby, it doesn't override the common sense realization that Ellie is not going to stop coming for her.

None of that is resolved when Abby decided to let Ellie and Tommy go. And considering she kills Jesse, Abby would be stupid not to expect Ellie to try to kill her again. This is why I'm bothered there is no conversation between Ellie and Abby

Yeah, I'm going to agree here. I don't see any way Abby pulls back in the heat of the moment, Lev or no Lev. Especially since there's a good chance Ellie comes back and kills Lev and her later on.

Anyway, I went from loving the game after the first half to just being kinda "meh" on it after it was over.

AWestCoastDirtyBird · Jun 25, 2020

The only things Abby cared about in the end were Lev and finding The Fireflies

N.47H.4N · Jun 25, 2020

Guys,I was watching my girlfriend playing today,and when Ellie kills Owen and see Mel is pregnant,she was in shock and start a buzz sound,when Tommy came and call her (first word),at least on Brazilian Portuguese DUB,I was pretty sure to listen Joel's voice instead of Tommy's,anyone got this impression of original VA or location DUB?

Einchy · Jun 25, 2020

molnizzle said:
Man I had mostly great things to say about the game, but there are some heinously poor design choices that really sour the overall experience.

Like right now, in theater as Abby, stealth segment against armed Ellie. Instant fail discovery mechanic and I can't figure out what to do. Died 4 times now. I don't have time for stupid bullshit like this, Naughty Dog.

It works exactly like when Ellie fought the cannibal in the restaurant. You just gotta sneak around until you can get behind her.

Xeteh · Jun 25, 2020

AWestCoastDirtyBird said:
The only things Abby cared about in the end were Lev and finding The Fireflies

She didn't even care about finding the Fireflies. She did it for Owen.

Jonnax · Jun 25, 2020

I really enjoyed the California segment.

You get a submachine gun, the environment is fun to traverse.

Plus they're a bunch of slavers.

The shootouts were super fun.

Also letting those infected go in the compound, only to find they were chasing you, was hilariously tense.

Mary Celeste · Jun 25, 2020

molnizzle said:
Man I had mostly great things to say about the game, but there are some heinously poor design choices that really sour the overall experience.

Like right now, in theater as Abby, stealth segment against armed Ellie. Instant fail discovery mechanic and I can't figure out what to do. Died 4 times now. I don't have time for stupid bullshit like this, Naughty Dog. Nobody is playing your game for this trash. It shouldn't be here.

bro just walk behind her and hit her

Death Metalist · Jun 25, 2020

me in the ellie boss fight:

so that's how the A.I feels

Xeteh · Jun 25, 2020

Death Metalist said:
me in the ellie boss fight:

so that's how the A.I feels

For me it was "Man, I don't want to do this. Where's the "let's talk this out" button?"

BraXzy · Jun 25, 2020

I am incredibly amazed and grateful that I managed to avoid all spoilers and leaks prior to playing this. I can't believe just how much was out there.

cantbebothered · Jun 25, 2020

hughesta said:
She never kills the kids. She's referring to the WLF as a whole.

i know. but shes wlf. and she never actually show any regret in the way she talks about the scars.
i dont think she had any remorse until she met lev.

i mean everyone is pretty shitty in this world

Shark · Jun 25, 2020

molnizzle said:
Man I had mostly great things to say about the game, but there are some heinously poor design choices that really sour the overall experience.

Like right now, in theater as Abby, stealth segment against armed Ellie. Instant fail discovery mechanic and I can't figure out what to do. Died 4 times now. I don't have time for stupid bullshit like this, Naughty Dog. Nobody is playing your game for this trash. It shouldn't be here.

The poor design choice of needing to be behind an enemy to stealth attack them...like every single enemy in the entire game to that point?

Also, Ellie is basically the apex predator and has all of her tools while you have your bare hands and a few bottles.

Posts like yours are why we get button mash QTE segment.

Deleted member 18025 · Jun 25, 2020

BraXzy said:
I am incredibly amazed and grateful that I managed to avoid all spoilers and leaks prior to playing this. I can't believe just how much was out there.

Forreal, I wasn't expecting two games here.

Death Metalist · Jun 25, 2020

Xeteh said:
For me it was "Man, I don't want to do this. Where's the "let's talk this out" button?"

I really loved it because I did not know where the story was going at that point. It was excitement and total dreading it.

dragonbane · Jun 25, 2020

hughesta said:
Abby did not kill any children. Where is this coming from? She was brainwashed by tribalism so she defends the people who did it, but she didn't do it.

She likely did offscreen. You don't become Isaac's best soldier by not being the most ruthless of the bunch.

SecondNature said:
That was a really morbid scene, Ellie has a panic attack, but after that... she's right back on the warpath.

What warpath? After that panic attack she plans to go home immediately, before Abby blasts in and kills Jesse and to Ellie's knowledge Tommy. Obviously she would attack Abby there, especially since Dina is sleeping nearby and Ellie wants to defend her at any cost. After that is the farm scene where her situation changed considerably. After murdering Mel she was off the warpath for a solid year.

BraXzy · Jun 25, 2020

MadLaughter said:
One of my favorite shots in the game:

Here's a 4K version I took:

Jonnax · Jun 25, 2020

molnizzle said:
Man I had mostly great things to say about the game, but there are some heinously poor design choices that really sour the overall experience.

Like right now, in theater as Abby, stealth segment against armed Ellie. Instant fail discovery mechanic and I can't figure out what to do. Died 4 times now. I don't have time for stupid bullshit like this, Naughty Dog. Nobody is playing your game for this trash. It shouldn't be here.

It's storytelling.
Ellie is a beast.
You play as her.
She's got a machete.
Abby is some WLF goon that killed Joel.

Like think of all the people you killed as Ellie.

But also think about the juxtaposition of their two fighting style as well.

Also just sneak up on her lol

Deleted member 54292 · Jun 25, 2020

molnizzle said:
Man I had mostly great things to say about the game, but there are some heinously poor design choices that really sour the overall experience.

Like right now, in theater as Abby, stealth segment against armed Ellie. Instant fail discovery mechanic and I can't figure out what to do. Died 4 times now. I don't have time for stupid bullshit like this, Naughty Dog. Nobody is playing your game for this trash. It shouldn't be here.

You are fighting Ellie. Think like her.

George Romero · Jun 25, 2020

Jonnax said:
I really enjoyed the California segment.

You get a submachine gun, the environment is fun to traverse.

Plus they're a bunch of slavers.

The shootouts were super fun.

Also letting those infected go in the compound, only to find they were chasing you, was hilariously tense.

yeah i love this segment too, i let clickers kiil some guys for me

Shark · Jun 25, 2020

cantbebothered said:
i know. but shes wlf. and she never actually show any regret in the way she talks about the scars.
i dont think she had any remorse until she met lev.

i mean everyone is pretty shitty in this world

Americans justify wars and murder literally daily because it fits in to our worldview and it's too uncomfortable to confront or think about in any meaningful way. Out of sight, out of mind.

I'm not excusing Abby's heavily biased, jingoistic outlook on things but it's hardly novel or surprising when she has to mature and grow up in a military environment.

mikel202 · Jun 25, 2020

SecondNature said:
Once again: Abby letting Ellie and Tommy go is tough for me to swallow, when she already let both of them go once and they killed all her friends in retaliation.

It doesnt make sense to me at all that Abby would even trust both of them to not finish the job, no matter how much you buy into the deeper moral realizations these characters are supposed to develop.

And while I get Lev weighing down on Abby's conscious, I think writing the story to give Owen that role would have been much more impactful. Despite going through a lot with Lev, I just struggle to buy into Abby and Lev's relationship being deeper than Abby wanting vengeance for her friends. On the other hand, I bought into Abby and Owen's relationship a lot. I hated Ellie a lot for killing Owen.

As a player, seeing Owen, Manny, Mel, etc. all die justified Ellie dying to Abby. I bought into those characters, and their bond with Abby is supposed to be deeper than Abby spending 3 days with Lev.

And in the end, when Ellie spares Abby, I'm not sure how anyone makes the connection of Ellie realizing Abby and Lev are in the same positions Ellie and Joel were in, because Ellie doesn't even acknowledge Lev outside of threatening to kill him.

People want to say Ellie has a moral realization, but why does she have that with Abby, but not Mel (who was fucking pregnant)? That was a really morbid scene, Ellie has a panic attack, but after that... she's right back on the warpath.

Good points. The game didn't sell me on two critical choices in the theater and at the end which is probably why I don't like the game as much as people here, but I wanted too.

Mugen X · Jun 25, 2020

Papercuts said:
I still think that initial Joel death scene could have been executed a lot better. They REALLY wanted Ellie there for the "moment" but the reason surrounding the group letting her and Tommy (who they literally know is the brother of the man they're killing in front of him) go was pretty flimsy. It muddies the revenge stuff for me as even though Abby and Ellie lose damn near everything in the end, Abby's losses were not consequential from taking down Joel but for showing mercy. THAT bit her in the ass more than anything.

But her losses were consequential, she started the cycle of revenge when she murdered Joel. All her friends dying was a consequence of that because Ellie killed them. Them letting her and Tommy go is believable as well, ya some ppl would have killed them but it's not far fetched to think some would have let them live. Owen wanted them to be left alone, Abbys decision in that moment also could have influenced by Owen who she obviously has feeling for.

SecondNature said:
She lost everything because she let Ellie live, and when she has a chance to kill her, she peaces out. She doesn't even kill Tommy. Even if you want to say that Lev transformed Abby, it doesn't override the common sense realization that Ellie is not going to stop coming for her.

None of that is resolved when Abby decided to let Ellie and Tommy go. And considering she kills Jesse, Abby would be stupid not to expect Ellie to try to kill her again. This is why I'm bothered there is no conversation between Ellie and Abby

That's easy to say, how easy would it be for anyone to kill someone that just watched someone they obviously love die in front of them. Ppls actions are a lot different when they are present in the moment and their emotions are involved. I think she spares them both times because someone she cares for is present both times (Owen and Lev). Whether or not I agree with her letting them go, it makes sense to me that someone that's not me might be driven by different things.

N7_Kovalski · Jun 25, 2020

Anybody else having trouble not bawling your eyes out when listening to Future Days by Pearl Jam?

N.47H.4N · Jun 25, 2020

Boss fight against Ellie almost broke me,I can't believe ND did that,but I am glad they did,was incredible powerful moment.

Deleted member 39479 · Jun 25, 2020

dragonbane said:
She likely did offscreen. You don't become Isaac's best soldier by not being the most ruthless of the bunch.

What warpath? After that panic attack she plans to go home immediately, before Abby blasts in and kills Jesse and to Ellie's knowledge Tommy. Obviously she would attack Abby there, especially since Dina is sleeping nearby and Ellie wants to defend her at any cost. After that is the farm scene where her situation changed considerably. After murdering Mel she was off the warpath for a solid year.

The wild thing is even Tommy seemed chill with going home before Abby bust in. Seeing how much he changed at the farmhouse was chilling.

Deleted member 54292 · Jun 25, 2020

I actually love how humbling that Ellie fight is. The first time you think you're gonna do a classic bottle throw to the face into sprint super punch and she just fuckin dodges it leaving you wide open.

Shark · Jun 25, 2020

pseudotsuga said:
The wild thing is even Tommy seemed chill with going home before Abby bust in. Seeing how much he changed at the farmhouse was chilling.

Tommy has the absolute worst outcome of anyone in the game IMO. Completely earned it himself, too.

Xeteh · Jun 25, 2020

Death Metalist said:
I really loved it because I did not know where the story was going at that point. It was excitement and total dreading it.

Yeah, I was curious how things were going to unfold but I was kind of spoiled by reading a comment about how TLOU2's theme was forgiveness. I knew Ellie wasn't going to kill Abby. It also made me hate the scene where she left Dina. Early in the game I assumed Ellie was going to do something vile that pushed Dina away from her. Instead it was Ellie telling Dina her revenge is more important. Man, I felt so bad for Dina.

-Tetsuo- · Jun 25, 2020

molnizzle said:
Man I had mostly great things to say about the game, but there are some heinously poor design choices that really sour the overall experience.

Like right now, in theater as Abby, stealth segment against armed Ellie. Instant fail discovery mechanic and I can't figure out what to do. Died 4 times now. I don't have time for stupid bullshit like this, Naughty Dog. Nobody is playing your game for this trash. It shouldn't be here.

I am having difficulty believing someone is talking shit about that Ellie fight.

Elliott · Jun 25, 2020

Did anyone else think the ranch was just an extended dream sequence at first?

cantbebothered · Jun 25, 2020

Shark said:
Americans justify wars and murder literally daily because it fits in to our worldview and it's too uncomfortable to confront or think about in any meaningful way. Out of sight, out of mind.

I'm not excusing Abby's heavily biased, jingoistic outlook on things but it's hardly novel or surprising when she has to mature and grow up in a military environment.

yep thats how it is.

Shark · Jun 25, 2020

RadCatDad said:
I actually love how humbling that Ellie fight is. The first time you think you're gonna do a classic bottle throw to the face into sprint super punch and she just fuckin dodges it leaving you wide open.

It's fucking incredible. Legitimately one of the most audacious things I've ever experienced in a game. Can't believe they went there. Both 'boss fights' made feel like absolute shit during and after.

poklane · Jun 25, 2020

pseudotsuga said:
The wild thing is even Tommy seemed chill with going home before Abby bust in. Seeing how much he changed at the farmhouse was chilling.

Don't blame him, Abby left him scarred physically and I assume mentally for life.

N7_Kovalski · Jun 25, 2020

Elliott said:
Did anyone else think the ranch was just an extended dream sequence at first?

I was like "This is way too happy. Some shit is going to go down."

ClickyCal' · Jun 25, 2020

RadCatDad said:
I actually love how humbling that Ellie fight is. The first time you think you're gonna do a classic bottle throw to the face into sprint super punch and she just fuckin dodges it leaving you wide open.

MRW

N.47H.4N · Jun 25, 2020

Owen saved Ellie and Tommy,not Abby,if we took off Owen of that scene,both would die,Abby was too concentrated on her revenge,I don't get people trying to paint their survival to Abby here.

The Last of Us Part II - Spoiler Thread Part II

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