this episode triggered a weirdly common disagreement between my partner and I. I absolutely do not want to live forever, because it sounds like a miserable experience. They on the other hand never want to die.
60 minutes of air time on TV including commercial breaks. The last half hour of the block is a post-series special hosted by Seth Meyers.
60 minutes of air time on TV including commercial breaks. The last half hour of the block is a post-series special hosted by Seth Meyers.
I probably would give them the choice to erase their memories mind you but whatever
I know but as an actual choice wouldn't be terribleThey brought it up, that was just the torture demons would use and not solve an actual problem
I probably would give them the choice to erase their memories mind you but whatever
I mean of the good place plus also your other option is maybe death and not death but non existence it seems what they're implyingBut then what's the point? If your experiences are gone, you're not really "you" anymore anyway.
I mean of the good place plus also your other option is maybe death and not death but non existence it seems what they're implying
"and then we got vaccines"
"It's wierd how you just stopped liking them"
This got the best laugh from me
But then what's the point? If your experiences are gone, you're not really "you" anymore anyway.
What's the point of that though? You lived until you were done, then you do it again but completely unaware you're doing it again, and again, forever.Couldn't they just erase the memory to the point of death/entry to the good place, a giant afterlife reset hell you could combine it with the notion of a final exit. Walk through the red door and your current existence ends but you're back to the start of your heaven.
What's the point of that though? You lived until you were done, then you do it again but completely unaware you're doing it again, and again, forever.
Because a final ending is well final. You could become unhappy in the good place as you knew it, but as new people are introduced to it over time and experiences change (because it's stated they pick up trends from Earth) 'you' could experience those newer things fresh without the jadedness caused by your prior heaven. So if you're talking about philosophy, it'd be the most utilitarian solution to the problem because your total happiness would be greater than the one shot until you get bored then oblivion system.
But when you press reset, that accumulated happiness is erased. Your total happiness repeatedly peaks then drops back to when you originally died. Your new experiences are your only experiences.Because a final ending is well final. You could become unhappy in the good place as you knew it, but as new people are introduced to it over time and experiences change (because it's stated they pick up trends from Earth) 'you' could experience those newer things fresh without the jadedness caused by your prior heaven. So if you're talking about philosophy, it'd be the most utilitarian solution to the problem because your total happiness would be greater than the one shot until you get bored then oblivion system.
Couldn't they just erase the memory to the point of death/entry to the good place, a giant afterlife reset hell you could combine it with the notion of a final exit. Walk through the red door and your current existence ends but you're back to the start of your heaven.
Well it's your choice, which makes it completely different. But it does create complication with partners, if they want mind wipe, but the other doesn't. My solution lol, would be if people in the good place, get a challenge to work for, like they can become angels in the medium place and motivate them to become better people but they can have a break or resume at any time.how is that different than the Bad Place, but with pleasant things?
Well it's your choice, which makes it completely different. But it does create complication with partners, if they want mind wipe, but the other doesn't. My solution lol, would be if people in the good place, get a challenge to work for, like they can become angels in the medium place and motivate them to become better people but they can have a break or resume at any time.
Theres billions of humans and different types of people.They become an evolved being, a guardian angel and can be content with eternity. Committing suicide, doesn't sound like the best ending to me. It's not a nice implication, even if you've think you've done everything you can with life, there has to be more opportunities than resorting to killing yourself. I hope they can throw another twist into it and a nicer message.
I think there's some inspiring messages in the show, about change and restarting. Just the characters killing themselves doesn't really celebrate that and the whole romactised excuse for suicide you describe sounds problematic to me.yeah this isn't the same as that. And just look at Patty. You don't know what it would be like - and that's only 1600 years. Eternity would drive anyone insane.
I don't feel I need to see the characters walk into the 'grey heavens' together and die. I'd rather have a more uplifting ending than a romanticized depiction of suicide. Walking through, and Chidi and Eleanor being reborn in the next earth cycle and still meeting each other, because they were soul mates after all, would be lovely.
We are our experiences. That's what makes us individuals; that's what makes you you and that's what makes me me. Strip that away, even a part of it, and I cease to be me. Even taking away the bad experiences would reshape who I am, perhaps to the point that I am very different than what I would be with them. We need all types of experiences to grow. And what you're suggesting is an end to growth. It's just a way of prolonging existence for its own sake. People should have the right to end their existence if they want.Couldn't they just erase the memory to the point of death/entry to the good place, a giant afterlife reset hell you could combine it with the notion of a final exit. Walk through the red door and your current existence ends but you're back to the start of your heaven.
Yes, being with others and all of a sudden not remembering them would be a bad thing, and complicate all types of interactions in The Good Place.Well it's your choice, which makes it completely different. But it does create complication with partners, if they want mind wipe, but the other doesn't. My solution lol, would be if people in the good place, get a challenge to work for, like they can become angels in the medium place and motivate them to become better people but they can have a break or resume at any time.
One of the worst feelings in life is when you lose motivation and feel there's not anything left that can be achieved, I don't want our characters to feel that way and resort to suicide or 'final peace'This. It's basically a euthanasia door - I don't want the show ending on that
The show has often been about the ability to change, giving up because you think you've done everything you're capable of, doesn't suit that message IMO. You can say "well everyone would lose the will eventually" no thanks, applying limits to yourself is not celebrating your ability to change and evolve.I hope that this solution is just a quick fix for the question 'won't I get bored in heaven?' And won't play a part in the final episode at all.
The show has often been about the ability to change, giving up because you think you've done everything you're capable of, doesn't suit that message IMO. You can say "well everyone would lose the will eventually" no thanks, applying limits to yourself is not celebrating your ability to change and evolve.
I'm thinking of the point of the show, which has been about stating over again and changing. And yes, I think you're meant to get something human out of every story. And simply put, the characters deciding they've had enough, let's end our existence. does not sound like an entertaining ending,I think you're missing the point here. Eventually anyone is going to just be sick of existing. After a thousand years, million years, a billion years...... it's ETERNITY. You're thinking on human terms, but the show is talking about forever. This is not like committing suicide as a human on earth.
I can appreciate that life can't go on forever, on its own... but I don't like it that once you're bored, it's ok to end it. I don't find that very hopeful, they can say it's "peace", but I don't agree, it looks like giving up.I'm a little disappointing the thread is getting hung up on the connotations of suicide.
It's about an understanding, appreciation and acceptance that everything ends. THAT's the last big philosophical leap - can you be at peace with the knowledge that every part of existence - the physical, the emotional, the mental, all culture, all of our passion, our world, the stars, the universe, time, even possibly the spiritual - is finite and has to end.
Maybe the finale will have a "the end is just the start to another type of journey" message to it - we'll have to wait and see. But that's a bit of a cheat. I'll be much more interested if the showrunners ask if you're ok with the concept of oblivion - because that's some heavy shit, and it's something that should be honestly addressed more often.
I wouldn't want paradise, it does indeed sound boring. But I wouldn't want a world with so little challenge and motivation that I need a big suicide door in it to remind me it's ok to end it. It also sounds a bit cruel that if your partner chooses the door, and you don't want to, but then do so because of grief. If your friends keep entering the door, you might be so sad, that you don't even choose it because you're content.Can I just say that I find the moral discussions about their solution on this page to be absolutely fascinating?
I say this as a person who, if I ever found myself in a paradise, couldn't see myself ever wanting to leave. Particularly if I were there with friends and family.
I'm a little disappointing the thread is getting hung up on the connotations of suicide.
It's about an understanding, appreciation and acceptance that everything ends. THAT's the last big philosophical leap - can you be at peace with the knowledge that every part of existence - the physical, the emotional, the mental, all culture, all of our passion, our world, the stars, the universe, time, even possibly the spiritual - is finite and has to end.
Maybe the finale will have a "the end is just the start to another type of journey" message to it - we'll have to wait and see. But that's a bit of a cheat. I'll be much more interested if the showrunners ask if you're ok with the concept of oblivion - because that's some heavy shit, and it's something that should be honestly addressed more often.
I can appreciate that life can't go on forever, on its own... but I don't like it that once you're bored, it's ok to end it. I don't find that very hopeful, they can say it's "peace", but I don't agree, it looks like giving up.
One reason it rubs me the wrong way too is because you have an architect who can reshape existence to keep them motivated and to keep them constructive. It just sounds like they'll be using a questionable depiction of the concept of eternity, and then using that story to glamorise suicide. Whether that's their intention or not, I would find it unsatisfying.
I wouldn't want paradise, it does indeed sound boring. But I wouldn't want a world with so little challenge and motivation that I need a big suicide door in it to remind me it's ok to end it. It also sounds a bit cruel that if your partner chooses the door, and you don't want to, but then do so because of grief. If your friends keep entering the door, you might be so sad, that you don't even choose it because you're content.
Can I just say that I find the moral discussions about their solution on this page to be absolutely fascinating?
I say this as a person who, if I ever found myself in a paradise, couldn't see myself ever wanting to leave. Particularly if I were there with friends and family.
I wouldn't want paradise, it does indeed sound boring. But I wouldn't want a world with so little challenge and motivation that I need a big suicide door in it to remind me it's ok to end it. It also sounds a bit cruel that if your partner chooses the door, and you don't want to, but then do so because of grief. If your friends keep entering the door, you might be so sad, that you don't even choose it because you're content.
Michael says when you've seen everything you want to see, walk through the door. That means once you've done everything you're capable of coming up with, you have no further motivation and you're bored of your existence. They can frame it as a nice choice, but is it? Janet says they don't know exactly what will happen when they walk through it, so hopefully it's just not choosing to end yourself, like reincarnate into a guiding voice or Janet uses her memories of you and passes them into the earth mainframe whatever.But it's never framed as boredom, it's framed as once at peace. Plus the mere existence of said door gives meaning to the afterlife again. "I don't want them to get bored and commit suicide" is such a narrow view of what the show is trying to discuss. Is it dark? Yes. But we all have to face the end in some way.
Sounds like they're against memory manipulation in the good place so I don't think they would give you a fake version of your partner either. You provide a service to everyone to end their lives or existence and that would have repercussions on the minds of the people who remain. Like if Jason has enough and he lost interest quickly, and Janet his girlfriend being like a AI, breaks down because her programming is too confused to know whether she can remain or join him.The thing is, eternity is a really long time. Somewhere in the region of 100 billion people have ever lived. If we attach a fairly arbitrary average life expectancy of 50 years per person, you could spend 5 trillion years reliving the life of everyone who's ever existed. Pick your favourite activities from that knowledge and spend a few million years trying them out. Finish that and you've still got eternity left to go :D
Perhaps everyone is in their own personal good place, so while your friends and family are indistinguishable to you from the 'real' versions, they'd never opt to leave you?
But at this point, they have overcome all obstacles. They are in literal paradise and can do literally whatever they desire for ETERNITY. Us humans already get bored of doing the same thing here on earth, which is finite and decidedly not paradise. The thought that you wouldn't get bored or dissatisfied with your constant existence after a long time is naive.I'm thinking of the point of the show, which has been about stating over again and changing. And yes, I think you're meant to get something human out of every story. And simply put, the characters deciding they've had enough, let's end our existence. does not sound like an entertaining ending,
Yes to all of this.I'm a little disappointing the thread is getting hung up on the connotations of suicide.
It's about an understanding, appreciation and acceptance that everything ends. THAT's the last big philosophical leap - can you be at peace with the knowledge that every part of existence - the physical, the emotional, the mental, all culture, all of our passion, our world, the stars, the universe, time, even possibly the spiritual - is finite and has to end.
I did forget to state this before, but the show never did answer what happens when you go through the door. The official podcast even posits that they didn't answer that question in this episode, leaving the possibility that they will during the Finale. For all we know it's reincarnation, or some such concept.Maybe the finale will have a "the end is just the start to another type of journey" message to it - we'll have to wait and see. But that's a bit of a cheat. I'll be much more interested if the showrunners ask if you're ok with the concept of oblivion - because that's some heavy shit, and it's something that should be honestly addressed more often.
The thing is depression isn't always anger or sadness, it's emptiness that you can believe there's nothing else left for you in this world. That you no longer belong here. I've been through it, maybe you have too. IDKBut at this point, they have overcome all obstacles. They are in literal paradise and can do literally whatever they desire for ETERNITY. Us humans already get bored of doing the same thing here on earth, which is finite and decidedly not paradise. The thought that you wouldn't get bored or dissatisfied with your constant existence after a long time is naive.
Yes to all of this.
Also, too many are associating this to suicide, but with all the negative connotations that brings. Yes, it's similar to suicide in a literal sense, as you're ending your life. But suicide is done because you don't like it aren't satisfied with your life; it's done in anger and sadness and depression. This concept is done in contentment. Sure, you haven't experienced literally every permutation of things to do, but do you need to in order to be satisfied? You can be satisfied with your existence as you've chosen to live it, and not feel the need to extend it for its own sake.
Also keep in mind that this decision wouldn't be made right away, but probably centuries, if not multiple millennia after arriving. Also, would you genuinely want to solve other people's problems, or overcome your own adversities (let's say as The Good Place architects, as some have suggested) in perpetuity? Even if it's fulfilling and you're particularly good at it, I'd surmise the answer is no, eventually.
Again, I think some here are thinking in too short length terms, so to speak. To reiterate: WE ARE TALKING ABOUT ETERNITY HERE!!! Literally forever. Never-ending. You will get bored.
I did forget to state this before, but the show never did answer what happens when you go through the door. The official podcast even posits that they didn't answer that question in this episode, leaving the possibility that they will during the Finale. For all we know it's reincarnation, or some such concept.