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The extremely high expectations surrounding the UE5 tech demo are concerning
- Thread starter Deleted member 17184
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Nanite will probably use whatever the best hardware feature is on a given platform to optimize the process -- but they've stated the core is software compute and not tied to specific hardware.
"The core" here is presumably their GPU compute based micropolygon rasterizers. You still need to actually push all these polygons into a frame prior to rasterizing them, via compute or h/w or whathaveyou. And this is where mesh shaders can be pretty much required.
They've suggested otherwise, as if a complex surface is layered directly into the frame buffer by a compute process which handles all the geometry internally.
The demo made me interested in upgrading to the next gen. The Xbox presentation made me want to wait. The best examples of games on Xbox One X and PS4 Pro make it harder to notice the differences.
OP
OP
Good to see so many people knowing it won't be like that. Then again, there's a lot of people here who know what they're saying compared to armchair devs on Twitter and Reddit.
When I posted the UE5 demo for some friends right after the reveal, I made it clear that it was simply a demo of the features the engine was capable of, and that likely no games aside from the most expensive AAA games (that would take 3-5 years) would incorporate more than a few of them at the same time. The onus isn't on the developers for expectations with this.
We all know that demo is going to get surpassed by games in less than 3 years. If people expect games to look that good at launch, we'll maybe they won't, but don't act like te demo will never be reached.
just look that the the demo from square Enix for this gen (final fantasy Agnis?). It was surpassedby many games.
i believe that many Sony first party games will be as impressive as this demo in the first year.
The biggest problem with people doubting this demo, is that they can't fully understand what Sony is doing with the SSD and the whole architecture of the PS5. There's a lot of people that think the SSD is the same as any SSD, but don't realize that it is not! The whole system was design to not have any bottlenecks, it was design to have every thing work in tandem. However, people just want to look at numbers.
Quote me in this: Everyone will be impressed by Sony's first party games that they'll announce and realize that this demo will be reachable in a few years.
just look that the the demo from square Enix for this gen (final fantasy Agnis?). It was surpassedby many games.
i believe that many Sony first party games will be as impressive as this demo in the first year.
The biggest problem with people doubting this demo, is that they can't fully understand what Sony is doing with the SSD and the whole architecture of the PS5. There's a lot of people that think the SSD is the same as any SSD, but don't realize that it is not! The whole system was design to not have any bottlenecks, it was design to have every thing work in tandem. However, people just want to look at numbers.
Quote me in this: Everyone will be impressed by Sony's first party games that they'll announce and realize that this demo will be reachable in a few years.
Their first wave probably won't reach this demo but will be above anything cross gen. They will be fine.
They should be worried if they came out and show off a next gen only title but then release cross gen titles only. We already saw a bit of what happens when you do this last week.
Mesh shaders are essentially compute with some great additions targetting geometry processing specifically. You can "emulate" them via compute but the efficiency will be lower. So while you can just as well do this without mesh shaders - chances are that you'll get a sizeable speed up when using them.
You'd prefer the pre ue5 demo doom and gloom re diminishing returns and that we should all forget about the generational leap we are all used to?
Pass.
Give me hype train any day.
Pass.
Give me hype train any day.
This is already the case and that doesn't impacted VG that much.
People knows very well that Rockstar and ND aren't the standard.
I think part of the issue is that social media is even more widespread, gaming is even more popular than before. This is one of the only next gen "games" we've seen running, and at this point we're waiting til July for the big hitters(as we don't have confirmation of a Sony/other company exhibit before then).
I think people are hype for next gen and will probably run with the UE5 expectation because they haven't seen much of anything else.
I think people are hype for next gen and will probably run with the UE5 expectation because they haven't seen much of anything else.
I'll be very honest, the UE5 demo completely changed my ideas about how games are supposed to look. Intellectually, I understand that not all games and devs will reach that benchmark, but when I was watching Ghost of Tsushima state of play video, I couldn't help notice the low poly rocks, the low textures, and the incorrect lighting. And Ghost of Tsushima is a phenomenal looking game. The devs have outdone themselves. It's just that I've started to notice issues I never did because of the UE5 demo.
In 2002, I remember playing the newly released return to castle wolfenstein. And it blew me away. I thought it was impossible for a game to look better. Of course, now it's difficult to ignore the game's blocky, low detail graphics.
Something similar has happened to me after the UE5 demo. All of the flaws of current gen graphics, that my brain filtered out, now stand out in stark relief.
In 2002, I remember playing the newly released return to castle wolfenstein. And it blew me away. I thought it was impossible for a game to look better. Of course, now it's difficult to ignore the game's blocky, low detail graphics.
Something similar has happened to me after the UE5 demo. All of the flaws of current gen graphics, that my brain filtered out, now stand out in stark relief.
A lot of cencerns could by side-stepped if you advertise rocks solid performance instead of hollywood level graphics to me. Anything 60 is going to get attention here at least, wanna stay at the fidelity you are used to working with and just crank the resolution and fps up and you won't find me complaining about next gen. You can be at PS2 level graphics and so long it runs well you can't make me disappointed with the visuals. Forntie won't exactly be changing styles to photo-realism are they now?
That's what happens after every generation, isn't it? Every game I've once been blown away by, looks a bit meh 5 or 10 years later.
But yes, the UE5 demo was incredible. And LOL at everyone who talked about diminishing returns and that 4K120 + no loading screens was the point of the upcoming generation. We have a long, long way to go yet until we can do a well simulated world. As long as hardware continues to improve by the same factor it has currently, we'll continue to experience a similar leap between generations for many decades yet (by PS7 I do think it'll shift more to physics, interaction and AI though).
What other game has anything like this?
How is this any different to a set-piece in UC4 with more visual bells and whistles? If anything, it looks less impressive by virtue of how on-rails and ~ cinematic ~ it is. Why can't we remind ourselves that the impact of these graphical leaps last mere weeks – if not days – in the hearts and minds of most players?
I'm well aware this is purely to show off tech, but man, what a trite way to do so. I've played this game; you've played this game; we've ALL played this game. It's hella boring in 2020 and beyond. So from that perspective, I definitely agree with what Yogi is saying.
It's only as such for logistical reasons though, eg because Sony didn't want players to fly the character off tangent and into the walls etc. This demo was originally intended to be payable at GDC after all, including this end flight sequence.
So take what you've seen here, eg the speed and velocity of travel, the environment complexity, the scope of the scene, and then imagine that in playable form, or in a much larger space. Suddenly you have high velocity flight and travel possible at a density and fidelity simply not possible last gen.
Personally I wasn't impressed by the demo as it doesn't advance game-play. It was just better shadows and lighting. We have already seen wall running and flight in rich environments. So yeah managing expectations next gen is going to be very important.
I vastly prefer it shown in a demo like this that tries to frame it into a game we all know and thus can easier see what gains this tech brings than doing an on rails demo.
Its a techdemo, nobody is going to invent a new genre or blow you out of the water with elegant novel game design for a techdemo.
What other game has anything like this?
The detail isn't as strong as the Unreal demo (and the game was poorly received) but yes we have had this in gaming.
I thought the art director of GOW just stated that it's impossible to do this kind of fidelity for the whole game. Or is my reading comprehension failing me?
I think this is a game enthusiast concern that will not remotely translate to the general public. 90% of people will have forgotten about that demo by the time the new consoles release, and next gen games, regardless of what engine is used, will still look great. It's really not something anyone should be concerned about imo.
The detail isn't as strong as the Unreal demo (and the game was poorly received) but yes we have had this in gaming.
A bullshit e3 demo?
If you take it as a given that we will see some people have such expectations (we most definitely will), you could just be comfortable in the knowledge that your expectations are more measured, and be happy.
In an ideal world, games devs wouldn't have to contend with unrealistic expectations from an angry minority, but until social media goes away (or they delete their accounts), it's a cross they'll probably have to bear at some point in their career.
Is that anthem?? That game had TERRIBLE lod and FPS
The detail isn't as strong as the Unreal demo (and the game was poorly received) but yes we have had this in gaming.
I always view these demos as the absolute bleeding edge of what things could look like under the absolute perfect circumstances.
AKA games this gen probably won't look like that.
AKA games this gen probably won't look like that.
Did EA ever divulge info on what that demo was running on? This is a good example why some people are bit skeptical of tech demos
Physics and AI: 2 frontiers that developers continuously ignore in favor of increasingly diminishing returns in lighting and texture detail.
People generally seem to be ignoring how much Unreal is a burgeoning solution for TV/film production, which is far more likely to make use of this engine's capabilities than just videogames
Well, people are really hitting that the demo is the new norm.
Lots of people will be disappointed.. Especially since we are really about to hit the new gen and there will still be a lot of cross gen titles until 2022.
The PS5 SSD is capable of streaming unrealistic amounts of data is basically the situation. At least for your typical large open world game.
But it could be pretty wild for something like a fighting game, or maybe a racing game. Or the occasional insane set-piece for an open world game where the rest of the game doesn't have that kind of detail. Just need to try to balance it so it doesn't appear inconsistent.
But it could be pretty wild for something like a fighting game, or maybe a racing game. Or the occasional insane set-piece for an open world game where the rest of the game doesn't have that kind of detail. Just need to try to balance it so it doesn't appear inconsistent.
Its kind of difficult to show case new graphics technology but I feel like they did it pretty well here, its a lot more than just better shadows and lighting. They just told you they've basically reached a plateau in gaming development, no more geometry limit's no more wasted processing on excess geometry no more wasted effort on normal maps and LOD's(no more pop in for geometry assets). I guess this wan't really for gamers benefits but more the developers side(but I don't think we've ever seen flight that fast with assets that detailed before), but it may perhaps free up developers to focus on other things.
They were right to be concerned. Who the hell wants to control the character at such ludicrious speeds in a narrow canyon? You would constantly bump into shit. That whole scene seemed far too busy to properly control the character.
The detail isn't as strong as the Unreal demo (and the game was poorly received) but yes we have had this in gaming.
Not only is the world density and asset quality considerably lower, but the velocity or actual speed of travel (especially so close to complex, high fidelity geometry) is no where near as fast or thrilling.
Edit: Also noticed this gif appears to be the E3 2017 version of the demo, that was heavily downgraded in the final retail build of the game.
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Plus, with UE5 releasing late 2021 we likely won't see any AAA UE5 games until 2023 or even later. The demo was 1440p at 30fps as well and people has been asking for 4K and 60fps, so it's easy to assume that the focus at least early on for many devs will be resolution and framerate, which means no UE5 visuals:/
Who knows but it was light years ahead in terms of real time rendering compared to what we got in the full game and I played it on PC at Ultra settings.
If you really look at it, the character is not moving that quickly through the environment. They added blurring around the edges to give the appearance of speed.
The detail isn't as strong as the Unreal demo (and the game was poorly received) but yes we have had this in gaming.
Even then, that is from an E3 presentation and not representative of what the game actually looked like upon release.