Honestly, to me all of that was pretty obvious, and I never read the books. Eros hitting Earth is stated to cause "10 billion immediate casualties and 10 billion in the aftermath", so there have to be at the very least 20 billion people on Earth (probably somewhat between 25 and 30). The nuke hitting Earth somewhere in what's left of the Amazon rainforest still causes 2 million deaths. Also, when Bobbie is on Earth, you see what is basically a slum right in the middle of NYC. There's tons of references to Earth being out of jobs for the majority of the population. Multiple people threaten others with living on Basic Assistance in the future. If that screams "UBI utopia" to you, I honestly don't know what to say.
And as Eoin already said, Martians never refer to Earthers living in luxury. They're talking about them being the only ones that have (or had) the luxury of an actual livable planet and they wrecked it.
As for authoritarianism, I mean, if you have a severe overpopulation problem, what are you going to do? Stand next to the fire and saying "This is fine?"
I feel like its been definitely very well inferred. And I do believe we've gotten the 20 billion number at some point.
I really enjoyed the season overall, but I found it less interesting, surprising and exciting than Season 3, and I can't say I wasn't ever so slightly disappointed.
Firstly, I thought the ending cliffhanger was far too anticlimactic (more Belter political stuff when we should be on intergalactic universe spanning ancient alien space threats by now), and secondly, despite all that added Amazon money, it still felt far too grounded and lacking expanse.
Where I was expecting things to really open up because of all the rings and potential new locations, planets, galaxies etc, instead the majority of the series took place in just a few key locations, and there wasn't much interstellar travelling or adventure. In that sense, it felt too small despite having the potential to be so big.
It was still entertaining as hell, if a little too slow at times. Looking forward to the next season.
Firstly, I thought the ending cliffhanger was far too anticlimactic (more Belter political stuff when we should be on intergalactic universe spanning ancient alien space threats by now), and secondly, despite all that added Amazon money, it still felt far too grounded and lacking expanse.
Where I was expecting things to really open up because of all the rings and potential new locations, planets, galaxies etc, instead the majority of the series took place in just a few key locations, and there wasn't much interstellar travelling or adventure. In that sense, it felt too small despite having the potential to be so big.
It was still entertaining as hell, if a little too slow at times. Looking forward to the next season.
Just poking my head in to say I randomly picked this back up from the start of season 2 on Monday and I reckon I'll be on season 4 by today. It's so good.
I also used to think Discovery's problem was it's pace but this has started moving at a real clip. They just totally get you invested in the characters.
I think my moment of the series so far is "I'm that guy" - I punched the air
I also used to think Discovery's problem was it's pace but this has started moving at a real clip. They just totally get you invested in the characters.
I think my moment of the series so far is "I'm that guy" - I punched the air
There's something that didn't occur to me when reading the book but did when watching the show :
But anyway, i liked this season, relatively faithfull to the book with changes i like and other i didn't mind :
A bunch of rich colons arrive somewhere to violently take the place of much poorer people already in place. And the ship of theses rich colons is named "Edward Israel".
Am i wrong to see a connection ?
Am i wrong to see a connection ?
But anyway, i liked this season, relatively faithfull to the book with changes i like and other i didn't mind :
Removing the fact that Elvi was vaguely falling in love with Holden was a blessing, that the belter family was not Katoa's family was more logical and not having Havelock didn't really change anything and remove again a weird coincidence. Then swapping the father's role with the mother didn't change anything. Giving something to do to Drummer, Bobbie and Avasaralla was obligatory and quite well executed. Even more so, they used their scenes to get us some key elements of book 5 quicker. Wich should mean that season 5 should delve a bit faster in the nitty gritty than the book could.
And if i wasn't convinced by the actor for Inaros in the first scenes we see him, in the end, i'm okay with this on screen incarnation.
And if i wasn't convinced by the actor for Inaros in the first scenes we see him, in the end, i'm okay with this on screen incarnation.
I wouldn't read anything into it. The ships seem to be named after scientists (like astronomer Edward Israel), explorers, or military.
Yeah i know. But of all explorer's names they could have chosen, they chose one with Israel as a surname. Felt on purpose to me.
Anyway, i liked where my mind went. So there's that.
Anyway, i liked where my mind went. So there's that.
Also...
The Bobbie story was from the Gods of Risk (I think that's the one) novella. Glad they're ok bringing stuff in from the shorter stories!
Edward Israel was a 19th century explorer.
I look at it more like how the British East India company operated. Move into an already settled area. Impose their laws, kill a whole lot of native that don't appreciate being stolen from.
Meanwhile the company lieutenant promised riches if he toes the company line figures out he will be rich beyond his wildest dreams and even more pathologically enforces company interests.
He sees himself as taming Savage natives and the company is called Royal Charter Energy, what more justification is required for the barbarism.
I just finished season 4. I really liked it.
In regards to the slow pace of the alien story
The only thing I didn't like was how much the ending gave away what is going to happen next season.
In regards to the slow pace of the alien story
The story pace is straight from the books. I remember thinking after reading book 4 how the next book would be more about that. I was very wrong. Each book gives out about the same amount of information this season had. It is a very slow burn. Very slow.
Earth has around 31 billion people in Expanse, and that's just on the planet, not counting Luna and other colonies which should add another few billions..that's a fuck ton for a planet with raised sea levels and no remaining natural resources. Mars has around 9 billion (think it's 4 in the books). The not allowing child thing is a fair policy at that point, Holden's family was able to get massive benefits by sharing one child. The other thing being, there are far too many people and too few jobs, what are you gonna do at that point? Make it worse without having any population control measures?
One thing that always bugged me about non Earthers talking about how Earthers ruined their planet...well it didn't happen overnight. It took centuries to get there and it started happening before space colonisation, back when the ancestors of non Earthers were...Earthers. So their ancestors were to be blamed for squandering it away too. Why else do they think their forefathers even left Earth in the first place? lol
Last edited:
Looking forward to next season. I thought the Bobbie story was awkward. Clearly she's gonna rejoin the crew eventually but currently it's some weird side story.
I think this is a mindset thing. Martians and (especially) Belters are described as being inherently completely aware of the need to avoid squandering resources like air, water and food. Carelessness and wastefulness aren't just traits that they associate with Earthers, but traits that they see as only being possible on Earth. They would probably happily blame their Earth-based ancestors just as much as current Earthers, though I expect they'd also stop that trail of blame from their first off-world ancestors.
Plus, it's a prejudice. It's not going to be fully rational.
Finished season 4, so this is just inference as to what happens next, as I haven't read the books, but it looks like...
with that terrorist asteroid headed to Earth, the newly elected prime minister will be killed, and with Chrisjen conveniently being called to Luna, she'll remain prime minister (with her husband dead, as he stayed behind) for season 5
Well, just finished it too.
Glad to see I'm not the only one disappointed about how little actually happened in the entire season.
If I had to summarize every characters' just awful decision seen every single moment in the whole season:
Random other things:
Glad to see I'm not the only one disappointed about how little actually happened in the entire season.
If I had to summarize every characters' just awful decision seen every single moment in the whole season:
Everyone's fighting for 'a better tomorrow' glossing over that they're already dead.
Random other things:
- Awful people were really successful.
- Doesn't look like that guy will see any of his 1% cut even after all that murdering... well shucks.
- Amos didn't get any tough guy moments to really shine =(
- Am I supposed to know who he sent the comm to at the end? Uzilik doesn't ring a bell, but I'm also terrible with names.
- Doesn't look like that guy will see any of his 1% cut even after all that murdering... well shucks.
- Amos didn't get any tough guy moments to really shine =(
- Am I supposed to know who he sent the comm to at the end? Uzilik doesn't ring a bell, but I'm also terrible with names.
Last edited:
Two episodes left, I'm probably going to finish it off tonight. Excited to see how much of book 5 makes it in this year.
The scene in Episode 8
The scene in Episode 8
where they tow the Belter ship to a higher orbit looked incredible. I can't remember if it went that smoothly in the book, but I was terrified the whole time that something would go wrong. All the space stuff above Ilus has looked especially great though, what with the creepy moons (one of which is melting!).
I think he was just sending a message home to his kid, or perhaps to Drummer. Letting someone know he went out his way, the pirate way, like a captain going down with his ship or being made to walk the plank.
Felt more like sending a recording of their conversation to the OPA. His kid died in a fire (as mentioned in season 3).
Ach, I'm a dopey bastard and can't remember that about his kid. I guess it will be some OPA contact in the end. Maybe a ship name? Guess we'll find out. I haven't read the books so can't scry the future of the show.
Great season. Not the best, but very enjoyable.
Does anyone remember what happened about the story of the guy who accidentally invented FTL travel? I think in the previous season it showed him getting stuck in his seat and being unable to move, but I don't recall any followup as to what happened to him.
Does anyone remember what happened about the story of the guy who accidentally invented FTL travel? I think in the previous season it showed him getting stuck in his seat and being unable to move, but I don't recall any followup as to what happened to him.
Just finished and I really liked this season. Weird alien tech shenanigans is my jam, I guess. The dynamics in the groups were great.
The shots of the planet were pretty good, too, though I didn't like the change in aspect ratio. Got used to it I guess. Overall the visuals were pretty great.
I also really liked the side plots. They really added weight and perspective to the stuff on Ilus. I guess if the book really didn't have those I could see it being more of a slog.
It's a bummer this season is three episodes shorter than the last two. Makes it feel like it ends quickly. Setup for next season is pretty interesting. Can't wait to see where they go with that, especially Naomi and Inaros.
The shots of the planet were pretty good, too, though I didn't like the change in aspect ratio. Got used to it I guess. Overall the visuals were pretty great.
I also really liked the side plots. They really added weight and perspective to the stuff on Ilus. I guess if the book really didn't have those I could see it being more of a slog.
It's a bummer this season is three episodes shorter than the last two. Makes it feel like it ends quickly. Setup for next season is pretty interesting. Can't wait to see where they go with that, especially Naomi and Inaros.
And possibly the ship was eventually found by someone who triangulated where it came from and sent the protomolecule that way.
it's not FTL he invented a hyper efficient fusion drive capable of constant g acceleration, capable of continuous acceleration and deceleration during the entirety of a trip, which hugely decreases the travel time between planets and the belt. A constant 1g burn and flip to Mars takes the trip down to about 2 days and provides continuous gravity through the entire trip.
He dies from a stroke. You see it in the episode.
Last edited:
You mean the Epstein drive?
That wasn't FTL, it just was pretty damn fast and efficient compared to conventional drives. It was implied he died there and his ship kept on going, even running out of juice it would have impulse to continue until it crashes against something. Something something Newton something something most dangerous sob in the galaxy.
No the protomolecule had been in the system for over a billion years in Phoebe.
Thanks all. I assumed he lived because how would his accomplishment have been known otherwise?
Just finished. Loved it. A smattering of thoughts, I'm sure I'll have more tomorrow:
- I didn't think Bobbie's plot warranted a huge effects shot but that explosion at the Martian docks looked awesome.
- Marco's throwing rocks! Sorry to see Ashford go but we got him a season longer than I thought we would. So the Belters got stealth tech from Mars for the asteroids but I also heard Callisto mentioned. It would've been cool to see Filip's raid on Callisto but they did a great job of getting ready for the meat of the Marco storyline.
- Sorry about your girlfriend, Amos.
- Marco's throwing rocks! Sorry to see Ashford go but we got him a season longer than I thought we would. So the Belters got stealth tech from Mars for the asteroids but I also heard Callisto mentioned. It would've been cool to see Filip's raid on Callisto but they did a great job of getting ready for the meat of the Marco storyline.
- Sorry about your girlfriend, Amos.
He talks in his log about how his wife was going to be the richest person in the system when she pieces together what happens from his notes and finds his plans.
Ah, my bad. It had a Star Trek First Contact vibe so maybe that's why I thought that was where they were going with it.
Just finished and some random nitpicks and thoughts that stuck out to me.
- It simultaneously felt like it was written for a weekly release schedule on like on SyFy but the ambition in showing Ilus and all the CG probably would not have worked without the increased budget.
- Recasting of Arjun sucks, I miss Brian George.
- Amos continues to be the best boy. Wei's line about him being so lovably weird was on point.
- I guess I never realised that Miller was still "alive". I thought the protomolecule was just using his persona as a comprehensible avatar for Holden.
- Naomi's inability to survive on the planet was just kinda acknowledged and moved on from. I thought there would be more to it but it's not a struggle that influences what she does later.
- Murtry was odd. He was simultaneously barely tempered rage killing multiple out in the open but also incredibly conciliatory at times. I think the idea is that he's pragmatic but the flips between the two were so drastic and Burn Gorman just played him so slimy throughout.
- Have they just leaned into Alex being completely useless? I swear there were multiple fourth wall jokes about Alex being a third wheel. Everyone else have had arcs and development. He has had one thing, abandoning his family and they been stretching that thin idea across four seasons now without really diving into it. It's funny because Cas Anvar and Steven Strait are listed as the two main actors on the Prime Video app while everyone else is under supporting characters.
- Bobby's arc was the standout of the season. The depiction of the Martian dream crumbling without an enemy to rally against and habitable planets past the ring undercutting the terraforming project, her struggle with that is part of the reason I love the show. The rehabilitation of Esai and his underlings was a bit much though. He was forcing a teenager to cook drugs and was still ultimately just looking out for himself.
With the exception of Bobby's journey, it felt like they were spinning their wheels or walking back what happened in the previous season. Alien tech is still sinister, Belters struggling with their rebellious origin and their desire to be a stable power, Avasarala is bad a politicking but can swear a bunch so it evens out. Even the colonization angle felt stunted and held back for the entire season. There was an opportunity to show some cooperation between the settlers and RCEA people in the episode where they're all blind and cowering from the falling death slugs but nothing really came of that. In the end it's offhandly said that the two groups were able to work together after that bad guy Murtry was removed but it's not like his surface later involvement was the source of the resentment. There are still competing claims between the Belters and Inner corporations on the planet.
I am glad that this was immediately renewed for a season 5. There is nothing else like this show in how it depicts the complete inhospitable nature of space and humanity's resilience at the same time.
- Recasting of Arjun sucks, I miss Brian George.
- Amos continues to be the best boy. Wei's line about him being so lovably weird was on point.
- I guess I never realised that Miller was still "alive". I thought the protomolecule was just using his persona as a comprehensible avatar for Holden.
- Naomi's inability to survive on the planet was just kinda acknowledged and moved on from. I thought there would be more to it but it's not a struggle that influences what she does later.
- Murtry was odd. He was simultaneously barely tempered rage killing multiple out in the open but also incredibly conciliatory at times. I think the idea is that he's pragmatic but the flips between the two were so drastic and Burn Gorman just played him so slimy throughout.
- Have they just leaned into Alex being completely useless? I swear there were multiple fourth wall jokes about Alex being a third wheel. Everyone else have had arcs and development. He has had one thing, abandoning his family and they been stretching that thin idea across four seasons now without really diving into it. It's funny because Cas Anvar and Steven Strait are listed as the two main actors on the Prime Video app while everyone else is under supporting characters.
- Bobby's arc was the standout of the season. The depiction of the Martian dream crumbling without an enemy to rally against and habitable planets past the ring undercutting the terraforming project, her struggle with that is part of the reason I love the show. The rehabilitation of Esai and his underlings was a bit much though. He was forcing a teenager to cook drugs and was still ultimately just looking out for himself.
With the exception of Bobby's journey, it felt like they were spinning their wheels or walking back what happened in the previous season. Alien tech is still sinister, Belters struggling with their rebellious origin and their desire to be a stable power, Avasarala is bad a politicking but can swear a bunch so it evens out. Even the colonization angle felt stunted and held back for the entire season. There was an opportunity to show some cooperation between the settlers and RCEA people in the episode where they're all blind and cowering from the falling death slugs but nothing really came of that. In the end it's offhandly said that the two groups were able to work together after that bad guy Murtry was removed but it's not like his surface later involvement was the source of the resentment. There are still competing claims between the Belters and Inner corporations on the planet.
I am glad that this was immediately renewed for a season 5. There is nothing else like this show in how it depicts the complete inhospitable nature of space and humanity's resilience at the same time.
Úzilik is Belter creole for uplink.
We don't know who he was sending it to, but I am betting on it being his boss Anderson Dawes or Drummer.
Finished season 4. Pretty damn good. Not as solid as season 3 but enjoyable.
I really need to read the books. Did season 4 cover all of book 4?
I really need to read the books. Did season 4 cover all of book 4?
This was weird to me. I understood it as a familiar face to interact with him, and I thought Holden understood it as an avatar for the protomolecule, too, but he seemed genuinely surprised then when "real" Miller came out.
I like Amos a lot, but Naomi is far and away my favorite character on the show.
One or those situations where I genuinely love the entire core group.
Yeah the Roci core all great.
Drummer is my queen tho, every scene needs more Drummer
I think at first Holden would have definitely just seen it as a manifestation, but from the first time he saw it until the end of S4 was like a year-ish, right? Interacting with something that long, even if it was initially just a manifestation to you, would definitely result in you seeing as more and more the real deal after a while since it had the memories and mannerisms of the original person. Especially after Miller mentions the 'screaming', not something you'd expect the Protomolecule's avatar to admit to.
On that note (S4 spoilers, S5 speculation, have not read beyond book 3)
I feel like Drummer's S5 arc has the most potential from what we got in S4. Roci crew sorta achieved their aims with no immediately dangling threads, so it seems like S5 will have to give them a new conflict to build on the Protomolecule some more. Crisjen and Bobbie are getting back together but to do what specifically besides trying to expose the dangerous Mars faction that's working with the terrorists. I guess if/when those asteroids hit Earth they'll be going hunting (perhaps rejoining the Roci to do so)
Drummer now has a very clear revenge arc paired with what will definitely be regrets over having not agreed to the execution earlier. I'm a little sad to lose the good Drummer + Ashford pairing as they had a nice rival chemistry (especially after what happened on the Behemoth), but that was a good death. Though that being said Ashford only taking two people with him on the raid and not popping Marcos immediately seemed a little implausible (also damn Ashford, kinda cold to send your guy ahead knowing he'd probably get gunned down).
Drummer now has a very clear revenge arc paired with what will definitely be regrets over having not agreed to the execution earlier. I'm a little sad to lose the good Drummer + Ashford pairing as they had a nice rival chemistry (especially after what happened on the Behemoth), but that was a good death. Though that being said Ashford only taking two people with him on the raid and not popping Marcos immediately seemed a little implausible (also damn Ashford, kinda cold to send your guy ahead knowing he'd probably get gunned down).
when elvi put her hand on holdens shoulder to feel for the med patch, god damn that brief interaction was hilarious.
on the whole, 10 eps fucking sucks. i hope 5 gets back to at least 13.
on the whole, 10 eps fucking sucks. i hope 5 gets back to at least 13.
Just finished the season. I liked it a lot, although maybe slightly less than season 3. 10 episodes did feel a bit short though.
