The Eleven SEGA “Zeldas” (GIFs)
- Thread starter Mama Robotnik
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What a great OP. I really love Soleil and its a shame Sega forgot about that title. Im expecting it comes with Sega Genesis Classic. In the other hand, Linker and Oasis 2 are Japan Only arent they?
Beyond Oasis is definitely my favorite. Small but tight game. The blatant beat em up influences in the combat is what makes it really stand out. It has some real weight to it that you don't get in other 2D Zelda clones and feels great just casually romping through. I also find the music refreshing. It's not just riffing on standard VGM and Hollywood stuff, but rather Yuzo Koshiro actually studied early 20th century symphonic music for that one. There's also cool nuances in the sound design that go underappreciated like different reverb effects on the footsteps depending on if you're indoors or outdoors.
I'd say Wonder Boy is moreso a Westone property than a Sega one. Sega just owns the rights to the title and characters, while the rest is owned by Westone and the games were ported to NES and PC-Engine by Hudson under different names.
Monster World 4 is my favorite out of those though, which isn't listed here. It uses the upward/downward air thrust mechanics from Zelda 2 which was one of my favorite parts about that game.
I'd say Wonder Boy is moreso a Westone property than a Sega one. Sega just owns the rights to the title and characters, while the rest is owned by Westone and the games were ported to NES and PC-Engine by Hudson under different names.
Monster World 4 is my favorite out of those though, which isn't listed here. It uses the upward/downward air thrust mechanics from Zelda 2 which was one of my favorite parts about that game.
Linker yes, but Oasis 2 / Thor 2 was released worldwide. Bought my copy in the distant year of 1998 and had a blast with it. Still replay it occasionally even, it made everything about the first game so much better.
Crusader of Centy / Soleil not being in any of the Sega MD/Gen collections has always been an issue with Atlus who published the game in the US back in the day. Funny enough, they are now owned by Sega, so maybe at some point in the future?
The Wonder Boy dev said he was only influenced by his obsession with Wizardry for Monster Land, although he had played a lot of Dragon Buster and Tower of Druaga even though he apparently didn't like them much.
https://hg101.kontek.net/wonderboy/wonderboy-interview.htm
So many games copied various things from Dragon Buster (jan 1985) that I think they became ubiquitous quickly. Zelda II *may* have been the first to take the downward thrust though.
Miyamoto actually conceived Zelda II as a sidescroller with up and down attacks including the thrust, so it's possible the Zelda II we got was literally Miyamoto being inspired by Dragon Buster. He seemed to look at Namco games - see Devil World, his and Tezuka's first team up.
And some aspects of Zelda 1 like the way the shield works are straight out of their Tower of Druaga. If you are using your sword a projectile will hit you from the front, otherwise your shield will block.
Back on my Dragon Buster tangent, as far as I know it also introduced the Mario 3 style map to Japan
You can see the Famicom version added an axe item you could find to change your route
Here are some level maps to give people an idea, some straightforward others labyrinths
Anyway, inventing the double jump is all that needs to be said.
An interesting aspect of Tower of Druaga and Dragon Buster to me, is that they were influenced directly by western home console action adventure/RPG games that I feel like people gloss over as irrelevant to history.
Namco had an Intellivision and imported games for their devs, and the creator of Tower of Druaga literally played AD&D on it and decided to make that game. And his sequel Return of Ishtar is strangely similar to Swords & Serpents on the Intellivision. Both are two player focused dungeon crawlers with a magic user and warrior (the vids on youtube don't show the 2-player of S&S from what I can see), with the magic user learning spells you find along the way, such as a spell to transport back together when they get separated or stuff like barrier, healing or freezing enemies for a bit.
And the famicom only Dragon Buster 2... is a straight up reimagining of Cloudy Mountain on Intellivision, no exaggeration. Down to small details that they are practically the only two games to share, such as no music in levels because you need to hear which type of enemy is off screen. Even the distinctive shape of the levels, the shroud, and a focus on arrows that you can shoot off the walls and kill yourself with on accident. Watch some videos of them, it's eerie.
Here is the axe in AD&D, letting you travel through forests in the overworld, there's a raft too to travel on the stream. Maybe that whole gameplay beat in Japan came from here?
A last tangent, the AD&D dev also made Alcazar which had similar stuff but with overhead dungeons as the levels, it was ported to the MSX for Japan in 1985.
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Crusader of Centy is a masterpiece. Beyond Oasis is great but disliked the breakable weapon system, though you could get infinite durability ones at some point. Legend of Oasis I really need to play one day. Golden Axe Warrior is honestly better than Zelda 1 minus dungeons and bosses.
Good to know. Thanks! I used to follow vg magazines very close in the Saturn era but I think I never saw Oasis 2 reviewed.
Looking on amazon at tue moment... its not a expensive game!
Golvellius and Golden Axe Warriors were the first 2 games I had in mind when I clicked this thread, so I'm not disappointed. Really nice OP.
I had absolutely no idea Golvellius was an MSX game that Sega had licensed out from Compile.
I had absolutely no idea Golvellius was an MSX game that Sega had licensed out from Compile.
Fantastic OP. I've never heard of these titles, but some look great. What a shame that they've faded to such obscurity
Centy was very good. Rayearth is one of the titles I kinda wanted but wasn't really willing to get a Saturn for, but it's also worth the side detour to the Ages interview with Reiko Kodama who directed it
https://www.resetera.com/threads/destructoid-interviews-segas-rieko-kodama.83328
https://www.resetera.com/threads/destructoid-interviews-segas-rieko-kodama.83328
Just finished reading the OP, absolutely fantastic. I was being weirded out as hell that I had never heard of Crusader of Centy until I learned it's the game known to us Europeans as Soleil; I never played it back in the day, but did hear a lot about it.
Mama RoRo, blessing us with another great thread. I remember my brother being hooked on Govellius.
*sigh* I wish Sega would release a new Thor/Oasis game, or at the very least, an HD remaster. Loved those games. It's a shame these are unavailable on modern consoles.
*sigh* I wish Sega would release a new Thor/Oasis game, or at the very least, an HD remaster. Loved those games. It's a shame these are unavailable on modern consoles.
Mama Robotnik always with the best threads.
When I was a kid, I exchanged my Super NES for two weeks with the Megadrive of one of my friends, just so I could play Soleil, and as a Zelda fan I loved it, it was awesome. I remember the Sonic cameo, combining animals power with the sword, and the crazy last fights with a Pac-Man twist lol
When I was a kid, I exchanged my Super NES for two weeks with the Megadrive of one of my friends, just so I could play Soleil, and as a Zelda fan I loved it, it was awesome. I remember the Sonic cameo, combining animals power with the sword, and the crazy last fights with a Pac-Man twist lol
So... Sega did Linkle before Nintendo, too.
I know many of these games by their fame, but being a Nintendo boy back then, I never tried them.
Some I didn't know though, like that Golden Axe that is so shameless, it should be brought up every time someone bitches that AAA games today are "all the same".
I know many of these games by their fame, but being a Nintendo boy back then, I never tried them.
Some I didn't know though, like that Golden Axe that is so shameless, it should be brought up every time someone bitches that AAA games today are "all the same".
Soleil and The Story of Thor were the first RPG's I played, fantastic games. I'd never played a Zelda game until Ocarina of Time, but started A Link to the Past this summer and I immediately wanted to play Soleil again.
I really ought to play more of these; I've only covered four; WB in Monster Land, Soleil, Story of Thor and Shining Wisdom.
Of the four I like Monster Land, but it wasn't until the later games introduced more Metroidvania-ey elements that I loved it. Soleil is brilliant through and through, and I really ought to replay it someday. Story of Thor I never quite warmed to and I'm not quite sure why - it just kind of felt like a chore after a while, a repetitive slog that lost some of the exploration elements I love, but it's been so long I don't know if that's doing it a disservice or not. Shining Wisdom I'm very fond of for the range of interesting secrets it has in it (TOYDONAAAAAAAAA), but I completely agree it's rather good for a while and then it... stops.
Of the four I like Monster Land, but it wasn't until the later games introduced more Metroidvania-ey elements that I loved it. Soleil is brilliant through and through, and I really ought to replay it someday. Story of Thor I never quite warmed to and I'm not quite sure why - it just kind of felt like a chore after a while, a repetitive slog that lost some of the exploration elements I love, but it's been so long I don't know if that's doing it a disservice or not. Shining Wisdom I'm very fond of for the range of interesting secrets it has in it (TOYDONAAAAAAAAA), but I completely agree it's rather good for a while and then it... stops.
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The Wonder Boy dev said he was only influenced by his obsession with Wizardry for Monster Land, although he had played a lot of Dragon Buster and Tower of Druaga even though he apparently didn't like them much.
https://hg101.kontek.net/wonderboy/wonderboy-interview.htm
So many games copied various things from Dragon Buster (jan 1985) that I think they became ubiquitous quickly. Zelda II *may* have been the first to take the downward thrust though.
Miyamoto actually conceived Zelda II as a sidescroller with up and down attacks including the thrust, so it's possible the Zelda II we got was literally Miyamoto being inspired by Dragon Buster. He seemed to look at Namco games - see Devil World, his and Tezuka's first team up.
And some aspects of Zelda 1 like the way the shield works are straight out of their Tower of Druaga. If you are using your sword a projectile will hit you from the front, otherwise your shield will block.
Back on my Dragon Buster tangent, as far as I know it also introduced the Mario 3 style map to Japan
You can see the Famicom version added an axe item you could find to change your route
Here are some level maps to give people an idea, some straightforward others labyrinths
Anyway, inventing the double jump is all that needs to be said.
An interesting aspect of Tower of Druaga and Dragon Buster to me, is that they were influenced directly by western home console action adventure/RPG games that I feel like people gloss over as irrelevant to history.
Namco had an Intellivision and imported games for their devs, and the creator of Tower of Druaga literally played AD&D on it and decided to make that game. And his sequel Return of Ishtar is strangely similar to Swords & Serpents on the Intellivision. Both are two player focused dungeon crawlers with a magic user and warrior, with the magic user learning spells you find along the way, such as breaking through walls (which is actually in Druaga 1 too). Or a spell to temporarily freeze the enemy so the sword user can finish them.
And the famicom only Dragon Buster 2... is a straight up reimagining of Cloudy Mountain on Intellivision, no exaggeration. Down to small details that they are practically the only two games to share, such as no music in levels because you need to hear which type of enemy is off screen. Even the distinctive shape of the levels, the shroud, and a focus on arrows that you can shoot off the walls and kill yourself with on accident. Watch some videos of them, it's eerie.
Here is the axe in AD&D, letting you travel through forests in the overworld, there's a raft too to travel on the stream. Maybe that whole gameplay beat in Japan came from here?
A last tangent, the AD&D dev also made Alcazar which had similar stuff but with overhead dungeons as the levels, it was ported to the MSX for Japan in 1985.
These are good examples of why we shouldn't forget all the stuff older than the Zelda that influenced the genre, both on Japanese and Western formats. And your animated GIF post on Riglas in another thread a few months ago was great for highlighting similarities to Zelda in a pre-Zelda game.
And sometimes we will never know if something is from influence of an earlier game or just parallel thinking that comes with doing something with similar themes. Are Zelda's wall bombing and other aspects inspired by Atari's Raiders of the Lost Ark? (It was based on Miyamoto's favourite movie) We will never know because Nintendo's very unlikely to mention inspiration from other companies' games.
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I played Beyond Oasis this year and personally didnt love it. While it was fun as a light Zelda more focused on combat, it lacked most things I want in these kind of games: it was completely linear, the dungeons were just good at best, the story was meh and some mechanics like the jump were not that Well excecuted.
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What an amazing post!
I personally think that The Most Not-Zelda Ever game is Neutopia. So Zelda it hurts. But not on Sega consoles.
I personally think that The Most Not-Zelda Ever game is Neutopia. So Zelda it hurts. But not on Sega consoles.
Great thread but I hope people don't expect too much from Crusader of Centy. I played it last year and it's a cool game but I wouldn't say it's anything special. Opinions will vary of course but I just hope people aren't going to go in expecting too much and ruin it for themselves.
How have this many people not played crusader of centy wtf. I know Landstalker has had later releases but always assumed they were around the same level of popularity.
Also has the deepest lore
Wow, one of the rare 16-bit games that aren't butchered by graphic filters
Crusader of Centy is great! A lot of people are posting the Rafflesia Training Grounds track - here's a rad remix of it that adds in some SNES sounds. I discovered it recently.
The Oasis games are also fantastic though I didn't finish them. On my list to replay at a later date.
The Oasis games are also fantastic though I didn't finish them. On my list to replay at a later date.
Good point. It's seems some elements also inspired Golvellius.
In the last famitsu, Kodama Rie said that the rival company that impressed Sega the most was Climax with Landstalker.
She claimed Sega tried later to imitate this style. (Light Crusader/Treasure ?)
I agree with the OP not including Landstalker. Like Light Crusader, Kan Naito's game probably has tons of inspirations but his own powerful identity and really deserve a dedicated thread.
Folkenhellfang
Speaking of action-RPG like Shining Wisdom you should give a look at Shining Tears/Wind (nextech). Like the saturn game (camelot), it's not a masterpiece but in multiplayer you have pretty nice gauntlet game with charming 2D graphics.
About modern Shining, 2 others surprised me. (Blade and Feather, the first one has a Valkyria like system and the other one a Sakura Taisen gameplay). The others are really not my cup of tea.
I would be very pleased if Gau could produce a Crusaders of Centy Mania. :)
Fantastic thread Mama Robotnik !
I have no idea why but to this day I still link Soleil with Golden Sun like they're made by the same people.
I have no idea why but to this day I still link Soleil with Golden Sun like they're made by the same people.
Good thread. I think it's worth emphasizing that Wonder Boy in Monster Land's arcade design makes it inherently stand out from Zelda II quite a bit.
Aztec Adventure, which I believe was from Sega, is another Master System game that bore some resemblance to Zelda, though mostly superficially in terms of combat and aesthetic. It was more of a level based action game.
God, I remember thinking Crusader of Centy was legit fantastic and better than any Zelda. I really wish I could replay it.
Golvellius' "exploring underground holes" gameplay is also pretty similar to Hydlide and other early computer games. And the original MSX version has an info sidebar on the right of the screen just like Dragon Slayer and the Hydlide series. Zelda may have been an influence on Golvellius but it's not a super obvious one as it doesn't really rip anything from it that wasn't already part of the genre. It just gets compared a lot because it was the closest the SMS had at the time and most people in the West didn't have much exposure to Japanese computer games thirty years ago.
I have absolutely no idea but I make the connection and I don't know where I picked that up.
Indeed.
Aside Disney and tons of movies, i have the strong feeling Nintendo's creatives enjoyed studying late Saturn games, Dreamcast era. (When Sega was almost an underground brand)
@jak57
Thanks for your remarks.
mael
Well, i think it's a mistake. :)
Except the words "soleil"(sun in french, i think) and golden "sun", there is no link between them.
As far as i know.