Tekken 7 adds detailed frame-data, a replay system alongside a tip system showing you what you could have done better (frame-data is a paid DLC)

[Dahbomb]

I'm talking about the actual repercussions of this decision for actual tekken players, not twitter/forum whiners.
Does Bamco look greedy? Hell yeah. Does it matter to a tekken player? No.

In reality, they have to justify the development of any new kind of content two years after launch and since this sp had less characters, this is probably just a way to increase the perceived value of the sp. I just find it weird they've chosen this specific thing to paywall over the others, because this is exactly how you get bad PR while offering an amazing improvement to the game.

Click to shrink...

Ultimately this isn't going to matter much as Tekken is well established now and we are at the tail end of the console generation and FG era anyway.

This is just a bad precedence to set in the future must like the huge amount of MTXes in certain FGs already. Now every company is going to look towards nickle and diming basic features like frame data display. This is how it starts. Remember when all the custom item options were available in a SC game? Now they are sold out piecemeal as DLC. Same for stages, fighters, cosmetics and features even story mode elements.

 

[The Fabled Englishman]

Re: better than a tutorial
If tips really is just about block punishing, well, that's just a drop in a bucket for what makes the game difrcult

How about telling people what their Oki options are

Or wall options

Or options vs mix-ups

Or options vs frame traps

Or vs poke pressure

All of these are things that cause people to lose more than just not block punishing + many more that you can reasonably expect to see in your average Tekken match

If we're not going to provide a holistic explanation of the game, why not do it in a granular way ?

Games like Uniel etc will outright tell you what your options are in some of these situations, and drill you on them, albeit through tutorial. They obviously don't cover everything but provide a good foundation for approaching these games period.

I'm not sold on the tips and replay stuff and I'm pretty sure this will be a thing thats brought up whenever people ask Namco to do better, whether people end up liking it or not. But w/e

Click to shrink...

Oki setups in Tekken are so nonsensical that there's no possible way you could simulate them all. I mean, yeah, stuff like a Mishima 50/50 is pretty straight forward but, if you take something like King's f3:1+2 or iSW as an example, you could be looking at 20 different options including wacky stuff like cross-up running exploder.

 

[ThatMeanScene]

Its sucks that the frame data is not free like it was for Street Fighter V but Tekken doesn't have a revenue stream outside of the season passes like SFV does (with tons of paid costumes in SFV). The Tekken team needs to make money somehow so putting this in the season pass/selling it separately makes sense for their unique situation. Again I understand why people are upset but many are not considering that the developer need to get paid for their work somehow.

 

[Kaguya]

I'm talking about the actual repercussions of this decision for actual tekken players, not twitter/forum whiners.
Does Bamco look greedy? Hell yeah. Does it matter to a tekken player? No.

Click to shrink...

Ah, ok, you clearly know everyone complaining here, on twitter or anywhere else to not be a Tekken player. Surely no God blessed Tekken player would complain about this, what was I thinking!

 

[selo]

Pay for frame data? As awesome as it is, i'm not paying for something that should be free. The replay thing, now that I could see as something that you could charge for.

 

[Dahbomb]

It's kinda weird that they put frame data behind paywall but not the actually great/unique features. You have to know that this was purely a Harada thing because of how much he hates frame data.

Other fighting game devs should be looking at this punishment system as well.

 

[eraFROMAN]

Tekken 7 is probably the best supported fighting game of this generation; for everything that's there, I'm not terribly upset by frame data being paid since I spent years looking it up for most games anyway. For most who care, they either already have the season pass, or know where to get the information.

But yeah, please don't start charging for these features normally. It's rough to do it after the fact for a fairly dynamic game like Tekken, so try to budget in doing it from the start.

 

[Dreamboum]

As others said, GGXrd has something similar.
Punish tip on replay is something new to the genre afaik though.

Click to shrink...

Do you mean the match-up tutorials of GGXrd? Because this is not the same thing

 

[myco666]

No one adds shit for free. Pretending DOA has frame data it is also hiding all the faults the game has and all the monetization it has going around. Comparing all the features that Tekken provides against most fighting games then Tekken is clearly up there for what you're getting without handing out the money. People are just trying to complain focusing on one thing while trying to sidestep everything else the game provides at the same time. Again, you're not just getting the frame data with the update. You're just paying for it while getting all the other things included in the base game without forking anything.

Click to shrink...

So what you are saying is that nothing in this T7 update is free either? No one adds shit for free after all. Also if Namco needs more money from Tekken players then just add some cosmetic stuff instead of putting game information behind paywall.

 

[galvenize]

Id rather pay 4$ for frame data integration than a costume.

 

[RedHeat]

SFV would've been crucified with dozens of articles if they charged for a similar feature.

 

[Prelude]

Ultimately this isn't going to matter much as Tekken is well established now and we are at the tail end of the console generation and FG era anyway.

This is just a bad precedence to set in the future must like the huge amount of MTXes in certain FGs already. Now every company is going to look towards nickle and diming basic features like frame data display. This is how it starts. Remember when all the custom item options were available in a SC game? Now they are sold out piecemeal as DLC. Same for stages, fighters, cosmetics and features even story mode elements.

Click to shrink...

Maybe, maybe not. Tekken 7 FR was just a weird poverty game that got more and more support the older it got, getting more popular despite all odds, even adding stuff that was present in previous games. T7 released after TT2, T8 will release after T7, it'll have a completely different budget.
I think anyone would get laughed at if they tried to pull this at launch, and they kinda cornered themselves into delivering all of these features into the next instalment.

Ah, ok, you clearly know everyone complaining here, on twitter or anywhere else to not be a Tekken player. Surely no God blessed Tekken player would complain about this, what was I thinking!

Click to shrink...

This is how things blow up on social media, try to read what I've said instead of overreacting and you'll understand why people that play the game aren't affected. It's a non-issue. Should I really consider the opinion of the usual "If Capcom did this!!" suspects? Do you think they're affected by this decision? I've already said it's not a good look for bamco, but that's their issue, not mine. As a player they've delivered more than enough this season, for free.

Also if Namco needs more money from Tekken players then just add some cosmetic stuff instead of putting game information behind paywall.

Click to shrink...

What if they added stuff people care about instead? Not relying on whales is a pretty healthy practice.

 

[Deleted member 13560]

How many people shaking their fists at this would actually use tuis and how many people who say they would use it aren't lying about it?

The reason I see them charging for this is because it is a SUPER under utilized feature that takes time to implement. So why not paywall it for people who will actually utilize it. People used to pay way more than that for frame data back in the day if they couldn't grab it off some gaming website.

I used to pay like 10 to 20 bucks for guides back in the day for frame data. This is way more intuitive and interactive. It doesn't bother me. For games who implement it for free, good on them. But it doesn't change the fact that it's an under utilized resource that takes time away from developing other areas of the game.

 

[Rolento]

I've always been terrible at remembering frame data so this will go a long way with me

 

[The Turbanator]

Even SFV has frame data for free.

Good luck calling Bamco the savior of the FGC now.

 

[Dreamboum]

So what you are saying is that nothing in this T7 update is free either? No one adds shit for free after all. Also if Namco needs more money from Tekken players then just add some cosmetic stuff instead of putting game information behind paywall.

Click to shrink...

Nothing is free yeah. However, I just have to sit down for 5 minutes and compare the offering of every fighting game and Tekken is obviously delivering a lot on that front in terms of post-launch support.

Most fighting games have frame data in their training modes, it's not "pretending" anything. Same for the replay system...
Most fighting games rebalance their game often, and some also do "huge rebalance" every year.

As said before, there's no issue saying it's cool that Tekken is bringing to their game basic features other games have since a decade, it's an issue when you pretend it's mindblowing and that the new feature means you can't criticize putting a basic feature behind paid DLC (be it 4$ or 10$).

Click to shrink...

Trying to compare the rebalancing that Tekken does with the rebalancing of other fighting games is misguided. The amount of work is clearly much higher despite not being as necessary considering that the game is not in dire need of a rebalancing. And we're talking new moves for every character for a roster that is averaging 50, if not higher already. This is not the same thing at all.

This is not just a replay system, this is a system that gives you advice on what you could have done better at points where a better punish option was available. And it has a punishment tool system to teach you to punish characters in training mode.

Stop trying to act like what's Tekken currently offering has been already done in other places. This is not the case, and all those things I mentioned are "free". Criticize all you want but don't paint a false picture of everything they're delivering. You pay for frame data, you get everything else in the base game, and these things are also super interesting and exciting and hasn't been done before in order to help the player improve.

 

[Deleted member 13560]

SFV would've been crucified with dozens of articles if they charged for a similar feature.

Click to shrink...

Tekken 7 didn't release with a bare bone roster with missing basic features, an abhorrent online experience, an unfinished UI, a ridiculous microtransaction system...

 

[Sanox]

How many people shaking their fists at this would actually use tuis and how many people who say they would use it aren't lying about it?

The reason I see them charging for this is because it is a SUPER under utilized feature that takes time to implement. So why not paywall it for people who will actually utilize it. People used to pay way more than that for frame data back in the day if they couldn't grab it off some gaming website.

I used to pay like 10 to 20 bucks for guides back in the day for frame data. This is way more intuitive and interactive. It doesn't bother me. For games who implement it for free, good on them. But it doesn't change the fact that it's an under utilized resource that takes time away from developing other areas of the game.

Click to shrink...

Just because its only used by more dedicated players doesn't make it any less of a basic feature and it is insane to make this paid dlc. So whats next the record function is now paid dlc in T8 because casuals don't care about it anyway

 

[Dreamboum]

It's actually mindblowing how many of you are so hellbent on that "B-but if it was SFV...!!!" rhetoric.

Street Fighter V didn't get merked because it charged for things. It was merked because it fucking sucked at launch and it has structural issues in its gameplay.

Tekken is not without faults but it is a solid game that has done a lot so far to improve further and offers new things to make the game healthier. Meanwhile, SFV had been on radio silence tot he community for several months from Capcom Cup to EVO just to try new marketing options to charge characters in bundles.

 

[RedHeat]

Tekken 7 didn't release with a bare bone roster with missing basic features, an abhorrent online experience, an unfinished UI, a ridiculous microtransaction system...

Click to shrink...

SFV now has a large roster, basic features were added in for FREE (including UI and input delay updates), and most stuff can be earned without spending a dime. And lol, don't get me started on Tekken's online:

 

[Naga]

Trying to compare the rebalancing that Tekken does with the rebalancing of other fighting games is misguided. The amount of work is clearly much higher despite not being as necessary considering that the game is not in dire need of a rebalancing. And we're talking new moves for every character for a roster that is averaging 50, if not higher already. This is not the same thing at all.

This is not just a replay system, this is a system that gives you advice on what you could have done better at points where a better punish option was available. And it has a punishment tool system to teach you to punish characters in training mode.

Stop trying to act like what's Tekken currently offering has been already done in other places. This is not the case, and all those things I mentioned are "free". Criticize all you want but don't paint a false picture of everything they're delivering. You pay for frame data, you get everything else in the base game, and these things are also super interesting and exciting and hasn't been done before in order to help the player improve.

Click to shrink...

When I said "replay system", I was talking about your selling point "you have replays that you can save!". If you read my post, you know I separated it from the tip system.

"Stop trying to act like what's Tekken currently offering has been already done in other places"
But it has, again, outside of the replay tip system. It's not painting a false picture to say that rebalancing the game, having a proper training mode with framedata, having a replay system (not talking about the tip system), etc... is something done by every fighting game.

I'm not going to congratulate Tekken for doing things other games do from the start (or in the case of SFV, later for free), and act like they're suddenly making the genre better or something. Nor am I going to not criticize them for making people pay for a basic feature (would you if SFV, GGXrd, DOA or any other game did it?).

 

[Deleted member 13560]

Just because its only used by more dedicated players doesn't make it any less of a basic feature and it is insane to make this paid dlc. So whats next the record function is now paid dlc in T8 because casuals don't care about it anyway

Click to shrink...

I don't really care because it's cheaper than what frame data used to cost for people. If people don't want to pay for it the community has done an excellent job of supplying that data online. I mean I see where they are coming from. They are paying money to develop an under utilized feature to give out to the public.

If they start piece mealing everything else then so be it. Don't support the product. But the silly thing is, people don't care in the end and will continue to fork over money to these companies no matter what. The amount of people who try to do something about things like this are inconsequential to these companies. Until they take a huge hit to their earnings they will continue to do this.

But I don't care enough to make a ruckus about it because for me it's cheaper than back in the day. I don't have to constantly read another screen or piece of paper. If other games have it for free that's great... but I don't play those games and most of those other games have worse business practices.

 

[Rean]

Tekken 7 didn't release with a bare bone roster with missing basic features, an abhorrent online experience, an unfinished UI, a ridiculous microtransaction system...

Click to shrink...

base tekken actualy did. arcade tekken was a big pile of steaming trash.
everyone seems to forget that consoles got this game when it was already out for several years and got its expansion already

 

[Deleted member 13560]

base tekken actualy did. arcade tekken was a big pile of steaming trash.
everyone seems to forget that consoles got this game when it was already out for several years and got its expansion already

Click to shrink...

I've always looked at arcades in the recent decade or so as glorified beta tests for products. Also, the majority of people on this planet never experience these games for the first time at the arcade. So the negative impact that it could have made was reduced significantly. They were smart about it. Capcom did it backwards and released an under cooked gamenout to the public and then released an arcade version.

Also Street Fighter V's current state is in a good place. I wasn't arguing that. But there is still a huge stigma surrounding the game because first impressions mean a lot to more casual consumers. I don't blame them. It is very hard to wipe away stigma from a massive amount of consumers. The most successful example being Final Fantasy XIV. But they literally rebuilt that game from the ground up.

 

[Kyora90]

SFV now has a large roster, basic features were added in for FREE (including UI and input delay updates), and most stuff can be earned without spending a dime. And lol, don't get me started on Tekken's online:

Click to shrink...

Props for him getting 2 Perfect electrics on delay netcode with lag.

 

[thetrin]

The price doesn't matter making a basic feature that should be the standard in the genre already a paid addition is ridiculous especially when its not even better than what other games offer. Neither does the frame data add details on the move list like NRS does in their games to quickly look up info about frame data nor does it even display as much information as DoA does in regards to on screen information about moves

Click to shrink...

Okay, but it's a 2 year old game, and they're adding a mode and the people that worked on it need to be paid. What do you want them to do? Pick money from a tree?

 

[Jer]

Neither of these things should be paid. Tekken basically got away with murder completely lacking any kind of tutorial and still not having something as basic as vs against the cpu.

Click to shrink...

Yeah, but if they're not paid, what incentive does Namco have to develop them? Features like this aren't going to move units, so the only way to get any kind of reimbursement is to charge for something.

I also can't get too upset when the best part of the upgrade is free. If you don't want to pay for frame data, you're welcome not to, and you're still better off after this upgrade than you were before it.

Tekken 7 didn't release with a bare bone roster with missing basic features, an abhorrent online experience, an unfinished UI, a ridiculous microtransaction system...

Click to shrink...

Actually it kind of did - smallest roster since Tekken 5, popular favorites missing, modes missing that had been in every Tekken since 2, online matchmaking that literally didn't work, so much offline lag on PS4 that top players had to use non-optimal combos to accommodate, etc. I think if SF5's launch hadn't set the bar so low, Tekken 7's launch would have gotten a lot more criticism. Namco did a great job fixing a lot of this for free, though, so the base game now is a ton better than at launch, which is why I'm not bothered paying for the occasional new feature.

 

[Just Great]

The double-standard in reaction to this news is absurd and I really like Tekken 7.

 

[Manbig]

As long as the numbers are accurate, I have zero issues with this.

This is not like including live frame data in the other fighting games that have them. The closest thing is what Virtua Fighter did, and the way that they are using this data is already beyond what they did.

Tekken bot has been a nice bandaid to the solution on PC for a while, but it has a lot of limitations.

Stuff that is not common in other fighting games that will now exist because of the work in this frame data:

- Move punishment suggestions in both training mode and during replays.

- Live distance measurement, which is absolutely fucking massive for Tekken specifically since range and pushback in Tekken has always been incredibly difficult to test with the naked eye and is often the most common cause, along with axis at least, for odd move interactions.

Outside of that, there is now stance transition frame data, which Tekken Bot has not been good with.

My only real letdown here is that they don't appear to have data off of knockdowns and recovery off of them... but a lot of work WAY after the fact of the game coming out clearly went into this. There was no way in hell they could have allocated the in house resources for this without telling the higher ups and Namco Bandai that they would charge something for it.

I do however expect it to be there from the beginning in future releases. I don't want this to be another awesome feature that disappears in future entries like Worldwide Tekken Federation from tag 2.

 

[MH MD]

Let's be real, if you are the kind of player who knows what frame data even is, you either:
1- Already knows where to look it up already for the past 2 years -or 4 counting arcade-
Or
2- You want to have every character to even make use of this frame data and every match-up to really take advantage of frame data, so you are already paying for the new season pass anyway that includes it.

"but it is a basic feature!" Is wrong given: not every fighting game have it now, and, you could say that "characters" are also basic feature in fighting games, yet people pay for them anyway and no one minds, why i gotta buy Geese Howard in Tekken when he is in the base game of KOF14 for free?!

Free replay and tips update are more useful actually, and available for all players and make you actually learn the game better, not some frame data that only advanced players really use, people argue that the new replay system should have been the paid feature instead, but that would be way WAY worse.

 

[Manbig]

I gotta say, I find it pretty funny that some people in this discussion around the internet brought up wanting team battle or Tekken Ball...

Nah, I'm sorry, but that is complete and utter nonsense. With a season pass we have a feature that players of ALL skill levels can make use out of. I'll take that over something that a random segment of the fanbase actually want. Now I feel like all of the money that I put into my season pass is going to something I can make use of in the game.

 

[MrWindUpBird]

What's weird is that people are still coming up with this excuse that "if it was X or Y there would be a stick-up" for years now. You're still trying to frame it as if the other fighting games that got merked was because they released at a bad time and Tekken 7 profited from Street Fighter V getting blown out.

It bears repeating: most of the features that we've seen today are to be included in the base game. Some of these features carries a lot of potential and offers a more interesting path for beginners to improve than other fighting games if done right. It is absolutely a good thing that Tekken 7 is still delivering on features instead of just being a constant stream of character in order to improve the health of the game.

Season Pass 3 features included in the base game:

- Huge rebalance for every character
- New moves for every character
- Play stats display
- Punishment tool that teaches you punishes against characters
- Replay system you can save
- Tips system telling you what you could have done better during replays

Season Pass 3 *paid* feature:

- Frame data (simple color coded and detailed with numbers)


No one adds shit for free. Pretending DOA has frame data it is also hiding all the faults the game has and all the monetization it has going around. Comparing all the features that Tekken provides against most fighting games then Tekken is clearly up there for what you're getting without handing out the money. People are just trying to complain focusing on one thing while trying to sidestep everything else the game provides at the same time. Again, you're not just getting the frame data with the update. You're just paying for it while getting all the other things included in the base game without forking anything.

Click to shrink...

Take Street Fighter out of the equation then. If it was Guilty Gear, Dragonball FighterZ, Unist, Mortal Kombat, any other developer I would still have issues with paying for frame data.
And congratulations on Namco for not charging for...Balance update? No shit. When was the last time a fighting game charged people for balance updates, Street Fighter IV? SoulCalibur VI's second season is also getting rebalancing and new moves for their characters and it's also free. I'm sorry, but nothing that Tekken is doing here outside of punishment tips is groundbreaking or anything of the sort. We should not be congratulating the developers for adding the other common changes to their game nearly three years after release.

 

[Manbig]

Take Street Fighter out of the equation then. If it was Guilty Gear, Dragonball FighterZ, Unist, Mortal Kombat, any other developer I would still have issues with paying for frame data.
And congratulations on Namco for not charging for...Balance update? No shit. When was the last time a fighting game charged people for balance updates, Street Fighter IV? SoulCalibur VI's second season is also getting rebalancing and new moves for their characters and it's also free. I'm sorry, but nothing that Tekken is doing here outside of punishment tips is groundbreaking or anything of the sort. We should not be congratulating the developers for adding the other common changes to their game nearly three years after release.

Click to shrink...

Don't many anime fighters do the SF4 thing of forcing you to purchase every single revision that you can almost equate to what other fighters patch in for a new season? I certainly recall that with the Guilty Gear Xrd updates.

Once again, all of those 2D fighters don't have the sheer staggering amount of move data that Tekken has, nor do they have all of the variables. The only comparable thing that exists AFAIK is Virtua Fighter, and with the added punishment suggestion stuff, Tekken 7 is already ahead on the curb on using it to help new players. That stuff is also free. They are basically charging for the amount of dev time that went into making the frame data exist.

 

[Sanox]

what incentive does Namco have to develop them?

Click to shrink...

Giving the more dedicated players that have likely been playing the game for years and stuck with it a requested feature that should already be standard anyway. Adding it as paid dlc is just gross. Bamco nickel and diming the games biggest fans basically.

 

[Deleted member 364]

Tekken 7 didn't release with a bare bone roster with missing basic features, an abhorrent online experience, an unfinished UI, a ridiculous microtransaction system...

Click to shrink...

Tekken 7 online was trash at launch, still has no tutorial and still has frequent and awful load times. It's hardly a perfect game.

 

[Jer]

I gotta say, I find it pretty funny that some people in this discussion around the internet brought up wanting team battle or Tekken Ball...

Nah, I'm sorry, but that is complete and utter nonsense. With a season pass we have a feature that players of ALL skill levels can make use out of. I'll take that over something that a random segment of the fanbase actually want. Now I feel like all of the money that I put into my season pass is going to something I can make use of in the game.

Click to shrink...

I brought up wanting Team Battle and Tekken Ball because I had great experiences growing up playing offline multiplayer Tekken 2 and Tekken 3 with friends of all skill levels, and without some kind of equalizer/casual mode, that's much less of an option. Even when I became a tournament player and they were still super casual players, modes like that made the game fun for everyone. When the same group gets together nowadays, Tekken 7 isn't fun for anyone because the skill gap is too great.

I don't disagree that from a business standpoint, the stuff they're delivering is more important than that stuff, but just in terms of what I'd enjoy, those are still pretty high on the list. Casual offline multiplayer has definitely not been a major priority for Namco.

 

[Rickenslacker]

I swear if we get features like this paywalled in the future because of frickin' Tekken.

Tekken 7 didn't release with a bare bone roster with missing basic features, an abhorrent online experience, an unfinished UI, a ridiculous microtransaction system...

Click to shrink...

It actually did miss basic features, we didn't even have replays in a game that was being released to market as an out of the gate two year revision. The PS4 online play was actually broken for a good while after launch, has terrible load times, has load times while rematching, and had a lot of Tekken users migrating to PC just to play. And speaking of ridiculous microtransactions...

 

[Manbig]

I brought up wanting Team Battle and Tekken Ball because I had great experiences growing up playing offline multiplayer Tekken 2 and Tekken 3 with friends of all skill levels, and without some kind of equalizer/casual mode, that's much less of an option. Even when I became a tournament player and they were still super casual players, modes like that made the game fun for everyone. When the same group gets together nowadays, Tekken 7 isn't fun for anyone because the skill gap is too great.

I don't disagree that from a business standpoint, the stuff they're delivering is more important than that stuff, but just in terms of what I'd enjoy, those are still pretty high on the list. Casual offline multiplayer has definitely not been a major priority for Namco.

Click to shrink...

I'd have no problem with them adding it so long as it's separate from a season pass. I personally like this approach much better. I really don't want to pay for another nonsense mode like Tekken Bowling just to get a tiny discount on a few new characters.

 

[Jer]

I'd have no problem with them adding it so long as it's separate from a season pass. I personally like this approach much better. I really don't want to pay for another nonsense mode like Tekken Bowling just to get a tiny discount on a few new characters.

Click to shrink...

Oh I definitely agree with you on that. Season pass 1 was a terrible value because of Tekken Bowl, season pass 2 was hugely better because it had no nonsense. Completely separate ball mode for $8 or something would be best, I could pick it up day 1 with glee, and all the normal people who don't care don't have to waste season pass space on it.

 

[Deleted member 442]

Oh I definitely agree with you on that. Season pass 1 was a terrible value because of Tekken Bowl, season pass 2 was hugely better because it had no nonsense. Completely separate ball mode for $8 or something would be best, I could pick it up day 1 with glee, and all the normal people who don't care don't have to waste season pass space on it.

Click to shrink...

Without drawing this into another conversation entirely, because I reckon you're making a fair suggestion, I think you'd end up with the same kind of complaints from people kicking off about it being paywalled and not included in a season pass.

Having multiple tiers of dlc can be confusing and seems to lead to people being dissatisfied. There were complaints around the fact that Kage wasn't included in an SFV season pass and Eliza wasn't in the first pass for Tekken 7. I think you'd end up in a similar situation if you had a random feature that was aimed at casuals but was paywalled on top of whatever was also being introduced at the time.

Having a single season pass that lasts for a certain period of time seems to work for most people, you still get people complaining but I think that's always going to be a thing in the current era. I am generally ok with how most fighting games have sold DLC in the past few years.

 

[Manbig]

I do believe that a lot of people, myself included, give Harada and Murray more leeway on these things because they've built up the cache with the fanbase by being very open in regards to why they do this stuff. The only real blemish that I have is Harada saying in that one interview that he didn't want to charge for returning characters, and I still don't feel too great about that overall.

But this one specific feature has led to them finding uses for it that you just don't see in other fighters and it was clear that we just weren't gonna get this at all unless they charged for it.

So yes, I am down with giving them this leeway and strongly disagree that they are just being greedy assholes just for the sake of it. Devs need to be paid for their work.

 

[abrasivemurk]

This will make me comeback to Tekken 7.

 

[DmckPower]

Tekken 7 online was trash at launch, still has no tutorial and still has frequent and awful load times. It's hardly a perfect game.

Click to shrink...

Season 2 saved the game.

The game was trash at launch and Season Pass 1 was pretty trash. I can't believe I am one of the suckers that paid for that DLC.

 

[Fantasma]

Oki setups in Tekken are so nonsensical that there's no possible way you could simulate them all. I mean, yeah, stuff like a Mishima 50/50 is pretty straight forward but, if you take something like King's f3:1+2 or iSW as an example, you could be looking at 20 different options including wacky stuff like cross-up running exploder.

Click to shrink...

No disagreements here, that's not really what i was going for, and likely isn't possible.

Wasn't trying to redisgn this particular feature, just saying that it doesn't take the place of a comprehensive tutorial (as some said) because there's many other things that can equally be a hinderance for beginners, esp. in Tekken.

FWIW, Namco does a good job of designing the characters and moves to drill beginners on certain aspects of Tekken as a system, they just don't highlight this whatsoever.

 

[Naga]

Okay, but it's a 2 year old game, and they're adding a mode and the people that worked on it need to be paid. What do you want them to do? Pick money from a tree?

Click to shrink...

SFV added tons of stuff for free years down the line. Same for Killer Instinct or other games.
Different monetization, but characters are paid DLC in every fighting game's case. S3 is paid DLC, maybe the issue is Bamco thinking basic features should be paid DLC, while other companies think this shouldn't.

 

[The Fabled Englishman]

No disagreements here, that's not really what i was going for, and likely isn't possible.

Wasn't trying to redisgn this particular feature, just saying that it doesn't take the place of a comprehensive tutorial (as some said) because there's many other things that can equally be a hinderance for beginners, esp. in Tekken.

FWIW, Namco does a good job of designing the characters and moves to drill beginners on certain aspects of Tekken as a system, they just don't highlight this whatsoever.

Click to shrink...

Yeah, I guess so.

It's still a little mind boggling that these games haven't come up with a decent tutorial for Korean backdash.

 

[Creation_Scapes]

Looks like everyone already covered this in the thread so I won't pile on about how ridiculous it is to have to pay for that.

 

[Kashibaba]

Cant believe how many people are defending this and how this thread is not getting enough replies considering how bad is this practice. Whats next, we have to pay $3.99 to access options in Tekken 8?

 

[Korigama]

LOL @ making people pay for frame data. Ridiculous.

 

[Virtua Sanus]

I also agree that punishment challenges should have been the paid content here. That is honestly such a monumental game changer that I hope the entire genre copies or emulates it to some degree. This will single handedly make me enjoy the game so, so much more. Please Namco sneak this into Soul Calibur VI!!

Tekken 7 didn't release with a bare bone roster with missing basic features, an abhorrent online experience, an unfinished UI, a ridiculous microtransaction system...

Click to shrink...

Tekken 7's online play just flat out did not work for tons of PlayStation 4 players for months after launch.

It was also exclusively an arcade game for several years, so it had way more time to fix it's significant issues the game had earlier on. Honestly, not having replays and not letting us see who we fought in the past in online are pretty serious issues too when all modern fighting games have those.