Switch needs an option to temporally archive already downloaded games in an external hard drive

[Epilexia]

Normally, when people request new features for the Switch OS, folders and themes come to light.

In my opinion, these two things are not as important, and indeed, I think that they're against the minimalist approach of the Switch UI, which in my opinion is one of the strengths of the system.

In the case of folders, I think that this is an obsolete concept. I would much prefer in the screen showing the list of all the icons, a button prompt to pop-up a search bar.

And I think that a tag system like the one used in Steam will work much better than folders.

But whatever, I'm not here to discuss this, if folders, themes or even music in the eShop are necessary elements.

We have had enough discussions and requests about this.

I'm here because this month, after reaching more than 170 digital games installed on my system, I finally filled the 200 GB of my SD card.

In the future, I will move to a 400 GB card. But at this time, it's not a priority. With 200 GB, I can have all the games that I'm currently playing, installed at the same time.

I have no problems with using the archive option, to delete the content of a game from my SD card, but keeping the icon on the screen.

The problem comes with the speed of my internet connection, that really sucks.

I look to a game like 'Fire Emblem Warriors', which is taking 15.9 GB of space from my card.

I'm not currently playing the game, so I have not problems archiving this game.

The problem comes from downloading this game again in the future. With my internet connection, this can easily takes 2 complete days.

And then I think in how absurd this is, when the Switch dock includes an USB port, so I can connect an external hard drive to the system.

I'm not asking the option of playing games from a hard disk, because this defies the purpose of Switch, that is playing in docked or in portable mode.

But even Wii had in the past an option to move games from the NAND memory to external SD cards. You can't play games from the SD card (not without hacking the console), but in this way, temporally archiving the game in an external card, you will not be forced to download the game again.

I see this option more affordable and intuitive than having a collection of different SD cards, specially for digital collectors with a vast library of games. Even more if we take into account that for switching SD cards, you're forced to power off the system, losing your progress in any suspended game.

Let me have a 3TB external USB hard disk with my already downloaded and not used games, and a SD card only with my currently played games.

If I want to play a game like 'Fire Emblem Warriors', I will only need to connect my Switch to the dock, moving some games to the hard disk, and then installing again the game in the SD card. Without waiting again two entire days for downloading the game.

This is currently my most wished feature for future updates of the firmware.

 

[Deleted member 36578]

It's pretty surprising to me that with the current state of your internet you seemed to go all digital despite atrocious download speeds. But yeah I hope this is an option some day.

 

[Epilexia]

It's pretty surprising to me that with the current state of your internet you seemed to go all digital despite atrocious download speeds. But yeah I hope this is an option some day.

Click to shrink...

The counterpart is that I have currently installed close to 170 games in the same card, without switching cartdriges, and without filling the space of my shelves with a lot of shitty plastic boxes.

I have not problems downloading the games while I sleep.

And games like 'Fire Emblem Warriors' are an exception.

Your normal indie Switch game rarely surpasses 1 GB.

 

[Theswweet]

I got a 128GB card on launch for mine, and I don't think a 256GB card would be enough for all my digital games... and I'm not even all digital!

 

[Deleted member 23046]

Maybe a bridge exists somewhere in an obscure taiwanese shop, like SD>SATA or SD>USB.

You put a SD card with a SATA/USB cable attached to it and the host system is lured by any storage at the end.

 

[Pryme]

Imma keep it real with you, chief.

No way you're getting that feature from Nintendo.

 

[Slam Tilt]

I agree with the OP entirely. Given that you can already copy digital Switch games from one microSD card to another using a computer, this should be a fairly simple feature. Just wrap some safeguards around the system to prevent deleting a copy until after the transfer is complete, and you're good.

 

[Epilexia]

Maybe a bridge exists somewhere in an obscure taiwanese shop, like SD>SATA or SD>USB.

You put a SD card with a SATA/USB cable attached to it and the host system is lured by any storage at the end.

Click to shrink...

I was more thinking in if there is a program for Windows or Mac to classify your games.

Something that let you to connect the SD card, extracting some games to an external hard disk.

Not as comfortable as the dock option, because extracting the SD card forces you to turn off the console.

But at least you can have a safe copy from all your downloaded games, while Nintendo doesn't include this option.

Also, we're talking about Nintendo. There is a high chance of such a basic and obvious option, never being included in the OS.

 

[LinkStrikesBack]

Also, we're talking about Nintendo. There is a high chance of such a basic and obvious option, being never included in the OS.

Click to shrink...

It's not obvious at all. It goes completely counter to the design philosophy of the console, that you can immediately at any point in time dock/undock the console and continue exactly what you were doing.

There's no chance they include any feature that breaks that philosophy, which, yes, means no usb hard drives which require the system to be docked.

 

[Hilarious_Bearious]

Can't you insert the SD card into your PC and copy the games off that way? It's shitty and inconvenient, but it would at least provide an alternative to redownloading.

The inability to backup game files to an external drive is pretty bad, but I think the inability to backup saves is a bigger, related problem.

 

[Epilexia]

It's not obvious at all. It goes completely counter to the design philosophy of the console, that you can immediately at any point in time dock/undock the console and continue exactly what you were doing.

There's no chance they include any feature that breaks that philosophy, which, yes, means no usb hard drives which require the system to be docked.

Click to shrink...

Why it breaks the philosophy?

You can't use the hard disk to play games, even in docked mode. It's only intended to temporally archive games.

And if you undock the console, they can simply pause the transfer. Continuing this when you dock the console again.

This doesn't break the Switch philosophy or the ways in which you can play.

 

[Unknownlight]

While a neat feature, Nintendo probably considers it pointless to develop because it doesn't take more than a minute to just swap SD cards.

 

[Deleted member 11370]

Homebrew can already do this. You can install games onto an external HDD os USB key and boot them from there.

Nintendo will probably never do such a thing, though, unless we see a dock-only Switch.

 

[TastyBurger666]

Been possible for a while now for hacked consoles. Can even do network installs, so you don't even need to connect the HD to the Switch.

 

[Epilexia]

Been possible for a while now for hacked consoles. Can even do network installs, so you don't even need to connect the HD to the Switch.

Click to shrink...

With a hacked console, I can't access the eShop for something as essential as buying new games.

 

[Naner]

When I got the system I thought that would be a problem too, but I'm living just fine with a 128GB SD card.

Most Nintendo games and indies don't consume much space, and I'm not getting many third-parties on Switch anyway. I only had to uninstall Doom a few weeks ago, but that was obviously the largest game on the system.

Besides, it's not that much of a hassle to uninstall the games I've beaten and don't plan on revisiting any time soon. That said, I will probably upgrade to a larger micro SD card eventually.

I have a bigger problem with my 1 TB One X and Game Pass always introducing some new 40GB title to check out.

 

[Sean Mirrsen]

Also, we're talking about Nintendo. There is a high chance of such a basic and obvious option, never being included in the OS.

Click to shrink...

Yeah, "basic and obvious" is not it. Archiving games to another physical storage is pretty out there, you only ever see that sort of thing with mobile PC gamers who can't keep their games installed to their tablet/hybrid's SSD and have to lug a harddrive around for the weighty games. Even then it's not so much "archive" as it is just a "removable games library" for a sit-down-and-play, since you never really want to play the weighty games on battery power. Speaking from experience, here.

For the Switch, eh, I suppose it could make sense. I guess the games downloaded to SD card are already plenty accessible by pirates and whatnot, so archiving game data to an external storage isn't that big a deal in that regard. So it's all down to demand, and how hard the feature is to realize with the constantly changing backend code while the battle against pirates and cheaters keeps raging.

 

[Epilexia]

When I got the system I thought that would be a problem too, but I'm living just fine with a 128GB SD card.

Most Nintendo games and indies don't consume much space, and I'm not getting many third-parties on Switch anyway. I only had to uninstall Doom a few weeks ago, but that was obviously the largest game on the system.

Besides, it's not that much of a hassle to uninstall the games I've beaten and don't plan on revisiting any time soon.

I have a bigger problem with my 1 TB One X and Game Pass always introducing some new 40GB title to check out.

Click to shrink...

Yeah, I think that the space problem is much worse in Xbox One than in any other system.

Indeed, installation sizes are so well optimized in Switch that at the end, in a cheap 200 GB card you can have more games installed that in the internal hard disk of your stationary console.

By the way, this is a feature more oriented to collectors with massive libraries.

The normal user will not face this problem.

But if I make a list of all my wished indie games in the eShop, they are currently surpassing the 400 GB mark.

 

[Hilarious_Bearious]

Yeah, "basic and obvious" is not it. Archiving games to another physical storage is pretty out there, you only ever see that sort of thing with mobile PC gamers who can't keep their games installed to their tablet/hybrid's SSD and have to lug a harddrive around for the weighty games. Even then it's not so much "archive" as it is just a "removable games library" for a sit-down-and-play, since you never really want to play the weighty games on battery power. Speaking from experience, here.

For the Switch, eh, I suppose it could make sense. I guess the games downloaded to SD card are already plenty accessible by pirates and whatnot, so archiving game data to an external storage isn't that big a deal in that regard. So it's all down to demand, and how hard the feature is to realize with the constantly changing backend code while the battle against pirates and cheaters keeps raging.

Click to shrink...

Uh, it's something both of the other consoles can do.

But you hit at why we really don't see this feature; Nintendo's fear of piracy.

 

[Naner]

Yeah, I think that the space problem is much worse in Xbox One than in any other system.

Indeed, installation sizes are so well optimized in Switch that at the end, in a cheap 200 GB card you can have more games installed that in the internal hard disk of your stationary console.

By the way, this is a feature more oriented to collectors with massive libraries.

The normal user will not face this problem.

But if I make a list of all my wished indie games in the eShop, they are currently surpassing the 400 GB mark.

Click to shrink...

I suggest the following: For now, keep installed the multiplayer games, the games you revisit often and the games you're playing or plan on playing soon.

A few years from now, near the end of the Switch's lifespan, 400GB SD cards will be cheaper and you'll be able to buy one or two of them and store all your games for safekeeping.

 

[Fliesen]

Yeah, "basic and obvious" is not it. Archiving games to another physical storage is pretty out there, you only ever see that sort of thing with mobile PC gamers who can't keep their games installed to their tablet/hybrid's SSD and have to lug a harddrive around for the weighty games. Even then it's not so much "archive" as it is just a "removable games library" for a sit-down-and-play, since you never really want to play the weighty games on battery power. Speaking from experience, here.

For the Switch, eh, I suppose it could make sense. I guess the games downloaded to SD card are already plenty accessible by pirates and whatnot, so archiving game data to an external storage isn't that big a deal in that regard. So it's all down to demand, and how hard the feature is to realize with the constantly changing backend code while the battle against pirates and cheaters keeps raging.

Click to shrink...

Eh. It still adds another attack vector with how to possibly inject external code to the console. Like, if you allow the console to communicate with external storage via the USB port to a certain degree (even if as 'locked down' as possible), i imagine you're opening yourself up quite a bit.

The Wii was hacked via corrupted Savegames and Homescreen banners...

 

[Epilexia]

A few years from now, near the end of the Switch's lifespan, 400GB SD cards will be cheaper and you'll be able to buy one or two of them and store all your games for safekeeping.

Click to shrink...

The 400 GB cards are currently at the same price that I paid for a 200 GB card, I consider them affordable if you wait for a good sale.

I was more thinking in waiting other year, until 1 TB cards in the €100 mark are a thing :)

 

[Naner]

The 400 GB cards are currently at the same price that I paid for a 200 GB card, I consider them affordable if you wait for a good sale.

I was more thinking in waiting other year, until 1 TB cards in the €100 mark are a thing :)

Click to shrink...

Exactly, prices for storage drop quite quickly. I think it's a bit crazy to buy the largest SD card available, since the price inevitably going down.

But I have to admit, while a 1TB micro SD card sounds awesome... I'm a bit afraid of putting so much data on such a small and relatively fragile unit.

 

[T002 Tyrant]

All I want to do is archive my saves to microSD. I don't mind re-downloading something that I have deleted, because I usually delete it for the reason that I'm no longer likely to play the software.

Plus I don't have the issue with all digital because I try and squeeze every GB with physical copies whenever I can. I prefer to save storage space any way I can over the mild inconvenience of switching carts.

 

[antispin]

This is a feature that all the platform holders should offer digital downloaders -- allow the user to keep a backup of the purchased content. The external device could be formatted and locked down as a vault by the platform holder to avoid malicious injection.

It will not only help with low data speeds but also act as a personal vault when the store goes offline/digital game is pulled. Infra-wise, a platform holder should look at an architecture that only needs an authentication server in order to enable future downloads. In case the platform holder goes completely out of business, a unique DRM key can be downloaded to the backup system for all titles in your library, so that you can enjoy the games even though the platform is no longer available.

Humble Bundle does something similar for Android games, but it's simpler for them because there is no DRM involved.

 

[Epilexia]

This is a feature that all the platform holders should offer digital downloaders -- allow the user to keep a backup of the purchased content. The external device could be formatted and locked down as a vault by the platform holder to avoid malicious injection.

It will not only help with low data speeds but also act as a personal vault when the store goes offline/digital game is pulled. Infra-wise, a platform holder should look at an architecture that only needs an authentication server in order to enable future downloads. In case the platform holder goes completely out of business, a unique DRM key can be downloaded to the backup system for all titles in your library, so that you can enjoy the games even though the platform is no longer available.

Humble Bundle does something similar for Android games, but it's simpler for them because there is no DRM involved.

Click to shrink...

Well, while a bit complicated, you can still do backups in Switch.

- Fulfill an entire SD card with games.

- Transfer all the directories to a PC.

- Format the SD card.

- Fulfill again the SD card with different Switch games.

- Move again the complete directories including the games, to a new directory on your PC.

In this way, to play a selection of backed games on your PC, you only need to format the card, and then copying one of your selection of games to the SD card.

At the end of the console cycle, specially if they decide to turn off the servers, you only need to create these directories by an alphabetical order.

 

[TastyBurger666]

With a hacked console, I can't access the eShop for something as essential as buying new games.

Click to shrink...

Why would you need to when the entire eShop has been downloaded and available to you?

(no, I'm not joking)

 

[Epilexia]

Why would you need to when the entire eShop has been downloaded and available to you?

(no, I'm not joking)

Click to shrink...

Because I like to pay for my games, instead of pirating them? :)

 

[TastyBurger666]

Because I like to pay for my games, instead of pirating them? :)

Click to shrink...

Great, and good for you.

The answer to your original question in that case, is that your request will never be implemented by Nintendo on the Switch, as it's out of scope for their intentions for the HorizonOS.

 

[antispin]

Well, while a bit complicated, you can still do backups in Switch.

- Fulfill an entire SD card with games.

- Transfer all the directories to a PC.

- Format the SD card.

- Fulfill again the SD card with different Switch games.

- Move again the complete directories including the games, to a new directory on your PC.

In this way, to play a selection of backed games on your PC, you only need to format the card, and then copying one of your selection of games to the SD card.

At the end of the console cycle, specially if they decide to turn off the servers, you only need to create these directories by an alphabetical order.

Click to shrink...

Wow, didn't know this flow. This works? Is there an online check when you move the games from the PC back into the card?

 

[WarpSpeedMolasses]

Honestly, with the internet speed you're describing, (and even without speed issues) I'd go physical. Especially since, unlike the PS4, Switch doesn't just dump the entire game into internal memory off the cart/disc.

That said, (while I'd personally never ever use it) I hope the feature you're describing becomes an option for those interested.

 

[Epilexia]

Wow, didn't know this flow. This works? Is there an online check when you move the games from the PC back into the card?

Click to shrink...

Nope, because when you download a game, this game is digitally certificated in a way in which you can only use it in the registered account/console.

As soon as you don't use a Mac and you use Windows, there is not a problem moving the complete content from a SD card to another new formatted one.

If you use a Mac, I think that it's problematic, because Mac tends to fill the directory with hidden files. But still, I suppose that you can use an external program to delete the additional hidden files created by Mac.

 

[TastyBurger666]

Nope, because when you download a game, this game is digitally certificated in a way in which you can only use it in the registered account/console.

Click to shrink...

Switch continually calls home to auth servers, it's not a one time thing. Hook your Switch up to PiHole and see how much traffic it spews out (spoiler: it's quite a lot).

Also Firmware 7.0 introduces a lot more local authentication checking.

 

[TastyBurger666]

Wow, didn't know this flow. This works? Is there an online check when you move the games from the PC back into the card?

Click to shrink...

Well, you're only copying the contents of the SD Card, the ticket database is still on the Switch, so you would still see the icons for the games that were on the other SD card.

 

[Epilexia]

Switch continually calls home to auth servers, it's not a one time thing. Hook your Switch up to PiHole and see how much traffic it spews out (spoiler: it's quite a lot).

Also Firmware 7.0 introduces a lot more local authentication checking.

Click to shrink...

And you can still move games from a SD card to a new one, by simply copying the content in Windows. I don't see how this is related with what I was saying.

 

[Hilarious_Bearious]

And you can still move games from a SD card to a new one, by simply copying the content in Windows. I don't see how this is related with what I was saying.

Click to shrink...

I think the point is that the data on an SD card in a Switch may be constantly being recertified, so if you leave the files in an offline backup for too long they may lose authentication and no longer be trusted by the system. It's a pretty standard security measure. Data which was created and authenticated on a Switch today may not work if loaded onto the same system/user account years from now. I have no idea if this is the case though.

 

[cowbanana]

It'll never happen. I mean, you can't even back up your save data like on every other contemporary gaming system.

 

[Epilexia]

I think the point is that the data on an SD card in a Switch may be constantly being recertified, so if you leave the files in an offline backup for too long they may lose authentication and no longer be trusted by the system. It's a pretty standard security measure. Data which was created and authenticated on a Switch today may not work if loaded onto the same system/user account years from now. I have no idea if this is the case though.

Click to shrink...

No, because Switch accepts to use various SD cards with various games collections, and you can swap the SD cards without problems.

With my method, the only difference is that instead of let's say, 5 SD cards, you will have 5 disk images in your hard drive for each card.

And then, you only need to write the SD card image in your "real" SD card, to use this collection of games.

 

[Hilarious_Bearious]

No, because Switch accepts to use various SD cards with various games collections, and you can swap the SD cards without problems.

With my method, the only difference is that instead of let's say, 5 SD cards, you will have 5 disk images in your hard drive for each card.

And then, you only need to write the SD card image in your "real" SD card, to use this collection of games.

Click to shrink...

Yeah, which is probably fine if you're doing that fairly regularly. I think the problem might be if you were to not use one of your images for a couple of years, when you restore it the system is like "whoa, this data hasn't been verified in like 2 years, could be an exploit. Don't trust it." Again, I have no idea if that's really a thing. It's just an impression I get from the other poster mentioning that the Switch dials home heavily.

 

[iamaustrian]

I plan to get multiple sd cards for that problem. While its not ideal, its better than nothing.
Maybe I will even set up some "genre cards" in the future. So an own sd card for act-adv.one for jumpn runs. Etc

Why would you need to when the entire eShop has been downloaded and available to you?

(no, I'm not joking)

Click to shrink...

Really? really?

 

[TastyBurger666]

And you can still move games from a SD card to a new one, by simply copying the content in Windows. I don't see how this is related with what I was saying.

Click to shrink...

Of course, but you'd still need to a way to authenticate that you have purchased the content.

Really? really?

Click to shrink...

Yes... really.

 

[Cuburger]

Considering we are about to enter the Switch's 2nd year and I have a 400GB card that is >70GB away from being full (would be closer if I didn't delete some games), I hope Nintendo does this soon. I recall them mentioning that they'd consider potentially opening up the ability in the future around the time the Switch launched, but who knows if they'd still consider that something they'd care to add, especially with how barebones the OS still is.

 

[delete12345]

Considering we are about to enter the Switch's 2nd year and I have a 400GB card that is >70GB away from being full (would be closer if I didn't delete some games), I hope Nintendo does this soon. I recall them mentioning that they'd consider potentially opening up the ability in the future around the time the Switch launched, but who knows if they'd still consider that something they'd care to add, especially with how barebones the OS still is.

Click to shrink...

Source? Not doubting you, but I'm very skeptical Nintendo said any of this.

 

[antispin]

Nope, because when you download a game, this game is digitally certificated in a way in which you can only use it in the registered account/console.

As soon as you don't use a Mac and you use Windows, there is not a problem moving the complete content from a SD card to another new formatted one.

If you use a Mac, I think that it's problematic, because Mac tends to fill the directory with hidden files. But still, I suppose that you can use an external program to delete the additional hidden files created by Mac.

Click to shrink...

Thanks, that's great to learn.

 

[Big_Erk]

Legit question. If we are talking about just maintaining an archive of games you own and have downloaded, isn't that basically what we already have with the SD cards? Wouldn't multiple SD's fill this need? When one is full pull it out and insert another. All of your games are still on the original. Swap Sd's when you want to play the games stored on them. Seems easier to me than restoring an archive to play a game.

 

[delete12345]

Legit question. If we are talking about just maintaining an archive of games you own and have downloaded, isn't that basically what we already have with the SD cards? Wouldn't multiple SD's fill this need? When one is full pull it out and insert another. All of your games are still on the original. Swap Sd's when you want to play the games stored on them. Seems easier to me than restoring an archive to play a game.

Click to shrink...

Legitimately good question.

 

[Enrico25]

It was possible on the WiiU and it led to piracy.

 

[fiendcode]

It was possible on the WiiU and it led to piracy.

Click to shrink...

That's not what led to piracy exploits on Wii U. Or any console I'm aware of actually.

It was also possible on Wii with one of the final firnware patches but only Dragon Quest X used it.

 

[justiceiro]

Switch revision need to use SD cards instead of micro sd. We didn't even got 512 cart yet, we probably won't even get to 1tb in switch lifespan.

 

[Cuburger]

Source? Not doubting you, but I'm very skeptical Nintendo said any of this.

Click to shrink...

This is from the Switch launch press event in London
https://www.gamereactor.eu/news/497423/Nintendo+Switchs+storage+could+be+expanded+with+USB+drives/

Nintendo Switch is also able to support external hard disk drives via the USB 2.0 ports placed on the side of the console's dock. However, this option has not yet been activated on the system: Nintendo is still considering it, mainly for mobility reasons, because if you save your games on an external USB memory drive connected to your dock, you wouldn't be able to take them with you in handheld mode, which goes against the main feature and philosophy of the new system.

Click to shrink...

Another outlet's report on the same event had a slightly different takeaway
https://phoneia.com/nintendo-switch-will-be-compatible-with-external-hard-drives-in-the-future/

Nintendo Switch has a internal memory of 32GB, can be expanded with microSD cards, but also in the future, it will also be compatible with external hard drives.
The external hard drives will connect to the Database Nintendo Switch (dock) via the USB ports (two 2.0, one 3.0), and will allow us to store different contents. This feature has no planned date and only knows that will come after the launch of the console, just like the functionality of share videos.

Click to shrink...