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PeskyToaster

Member
Oct 27, 2017
15,315
The "fuck the Dems" mentality ITT could not more perfectly encapsulate why the right was able to succeed at this.

Conservative evangelicals and Republicans have been on the anti-abortion crusade for *50 years*. And across those five decades, did they ever say fuck the GOP? Did they blast both parties as the same? Did they seriously threaten to vote third party or form a new party or not vote at all? Did they say they would flee the country or burn the system down?

No. They spent 50 years mobilizing voters, electing as many anti-abortion Republicans as they could, kicking those who weren't sufficiently anti-abortion out of the party. They played an extremely long game and won it because they never kept their eye off the ball: that the key to making policy is winning elections. Meanwhile, so many progressive and other left-of-center voters basically spend every two years looking for an excuse not to vote.

Voting doesn't not work; it works extremely well! What doesn't work is this constant attitude of trying to take yourself out of the equation. And it's frustrating that so many on the left still can't learn this lesson when the right is teaching it to us all the time.

Exactly. Elections matter and you're seeing it right now. Older white people are the most engaged voters and who do you think is getting their policies implemented? I'm looking at data from 2006 and in the most regular voter is white, 50 years or older, and goes to church on a weekly basis. Wow! Sounds like exactly who conservatives target with their policies. Those who reported as Republicans also had the highest percentage of voting regularly and the lowest number of unregistered voters. That's why Democrats have to tap into all those unregistered voters and turn their favorable blocs into regular voters. It's not an accident that older whites turn conservative, it's not a law of nature, it's not an accident that the people who vote conservative are the most regular voters and it's not a law of nature. It's a hundred years of political strategy to churn out your supporters and suppress the others.
 

Arc

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
4,523
The "fuck the Dems" mentality ITT could not more perfectly encapsulate why the right was able to succeed at this.

Conservative evangelicals and Republicans have been on the anti-abortion crusade for *50 years*. And across those five decades, did they ever say fuck the GOP? Did they blast both parties as the same? Did they seriously threaten to vote third party or form a new party or not vote at all? Did they say they would flee the country or burn the system down?

No. They spent 50 years mobilizing voters, electing as many anti-abortion Republicans as they could, kicking those who weren't sufficiently anti-abortion out of the party. They played an extremely long game and won it because they never took their eye off the ball: that the key to making policy is winning elections. No politician was too odious to ally with. Donald Trump should've been the most obvious candidate to run away from; instead they pledged their full support to him and had it pay off dividends. Meanwhile, so many progressive and other left-of-center voters basically spend every two years looking for an excuse not to vote.

Voting doesn't not work; it works extremely well! What doesn't work is this constant attitude of trying to take yourself out of the equation. And it's frustrating that so many on the left still can't learn this lesson when the right is teaching it to us all the time.

Incredible post and 100% spot on.
 

Blader

Member
Oct 27, 2017
26,632
I mean... obviously? But no democratic president has seemed to even care to push the agenda. Just because they aren't the ones that can make the change doesn't mean they can't put their voice behind it. I guess I'll just vote harder next time :)
"No Democratic president cares about pushing their agenda" is so objectively untrue that I don't know how to refute it without just copying and pasting Wikipedia pages of congressional votes!

Democratic legislative agendas are extremely complicated and ambitious — ideologically and procedurally. Mix a broad, diverse agenda of competing interests with a broad, diverse party of competing interests, with only two years to get it all done, and it should be no surprise why a lot of Democratic wishlist items don't end up passing. It's not for lack of caring or interest. Just the opposite — too many different interests pushing in different directions.

If I'm Republican reading this thread, im ecstatic. We stripe rights away from minorities and you all blame the black man and white woman? Excellent. Time for gay marriage next.

Like holy shit, can we get our heads in the game? It is 2022. This is happening now, regardless of why we're here. What's next?
Exactly. This is much more succinct than how I put it lol
 

OfficerRob

Member
Oct 25, 2017
26,124
Yeah, the 5-4 decision to overturn Roe would've been super different to the 6-3 decision today /s

Would've been 5-4 instead of 6-3.


Nope:

The court, in a 6-3 ruling powered by its conservative majority, upheld a Republican-backed Mississippi law that bans abortion after 15 weeks. The vote was 5-4 to overturn Roe, with Chief Justice John Roberts writing separately to say he would have upheld the Mississippi law but not taken the additional step of erasing the precedent altogether.

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/us-supreme-court-overturns-abortion-rights-landmark-2022-06-24/
 

excelsiorlef

Bad Praxis
Member
Oct 25, 2017
73,330
I mean... obviously? But no democratic president has seemed to even care to push the agenda. Just because they aren't the ones that can make the change doesn't mean they can't put their voice behind it. I guess I'll just vote harder next time :)

Yes voting is how the populace collectively keeps Republicans out of power
 

Kemal86

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,422
The "fuck the Dems" mentality ITT could not more perfectly encapsulate why the right was able to succeed at this.

Conservative evangelicals and Republicans have been on the anti-abortion crusade for *50 years*. And across those five decades, did they ever say fuck the GOP? Did they blast both parties as the same? Did they seriously threaten to vote third party or form a new party or not vote at all? Did they say they would flee the country or burn the system down?

No. They spent 50 years mobilizing voters, electing as many anti-abortion Republicans as they could, kicking those who weren't sufficiently anti-abortion out of the party. They played an extremely long game and won it because they never took their eye off the ball: that the key to making policy is winning elections. No politician was too odious to ally with. Donald Trump should've been the most obvious candidate to run away from; instead they pledged their full support to him and had it pay off dividends. Meanwhile, so many progressive and other left-of-center voters basically spend every two years looking for an excuse not to vote.

Voting doesn't not work; it works extremely well! What doesn't work is this constant attitude of trying to take yourself out of the equation. And it's frustrating that so many on the left still can't learn this lesson when the right is teaching it to us all the time.

this post is 100% spot on
 

thewienke

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,009
Depressing that the take away from this for a lot of people is "there's no point in voting anymore."

I feel like young people have been saying this for decades

It's like an inherent disadvantage in the system that young people don't vote as often as the elderly because no one has been able to crack the code in getting young people to vote reliably relative to other demographics.
 

Lord Fanny

Banned
Apr 25, 2020
25,953
And yet it's effective for Republicans? That's because going to the polls once and awhile because it's "popular" isn't enough. Look at the voting records of most republicans. They go out and vote WAY MORE THAN your average democrat.

Republicans have more voting power than Democrats. That's why it's worked for them and not the other way. They aren't on equal ground
 

plagiarize

It's not a loop. It's a spiral.
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
27,586
Cape Cod, MA
She's right though. There needs to be more Dems in the Senate to get thing done.
Not just that either. Control of the legislature at the State level is absolutely on the ballots in many many many states, and one party is going to look to restrict abortion access and one is going to look to protect it.

Pointing out that whether or not you can get an abortion in your state is on the ballot this November is a very important message to get out there to any states where the local legislature could go either way.
 

Powdered Egg

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
17,070
Get the fuck out of here with this shit. Have you even paid attention the last 5 years or has your head been up your ass the whole damn time? This is on Trump voters, non voters and protest voters. Period. If Trump never becomes president RoeVwade still stands.
Women and Minority groups are 24/7 under attack. It's the Dems fault for not being pro-active in protecting these groups. They are a flaccid reactionary party.
 

RowdyReverb

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,937
Austin, TX
Where is this violent backlash against progress coming from? Like, why now? Roe v. Wade stood for nearly 50 years! Is there a theory for why this rabid anti-progressive base has grown so powerful in the past decade?
 

julian

Member
Oct 27, 2017
16,798
Obama had 59 votes. There were 5 or 6 that were the Blue Dog Dems. You're saying Harry Reid couldn't whip up 51 votes?
That post isn't even accurate. As we should definitely be aware of now, he needed 60 votes. Or 50 to get rid of the filibuster which really wasn't a talking point at all at the time.
 

Trey2Deebo

Alt account
Banned
Jan 24, 2022
711
Absolutely devastating, I feel for you guys, get out there and protest y'all.

Sadly I think most Americans are too privileged and comfortable to ever protest beyond their Instagram black squares of solidarity. This Supreme Court has 6 emboldened radical conservatives right now who knows they can do whatever they want and they've been doing it now for weeks with awful rulings.
 

DrFunk

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,915
The "fuck the Dems" mentality ITT could not more perfectly encapsulate why the right was able to succeed at this.

Conservative evangelicals and Republicans have been on the anti-abortion crusade for *50 years*. And across those five decades, did they ever say fuck the GOP? Did they blast both parties as the same? Did they seriously threaten to vote third party or form a new party or not vote at all? Did they say they would flee the country or burn the system down?

No. They spent 50 years mobilizing voters, electing as many anti-abortion Republicans as they could, kicking those who weren't sufficiently anti-abortion out of the party. They played an extremely long game and won it because they never took their eye off the ball: that the key to making policy is winning elections. No politician was too odious to ally with. Donald Trump should've been the most obvious candidate to run away from; instead they pledged their full support to him and had it pay off dividends. Meanwhile, so many progressive and other left-of-center voters basically spend every two years looking for an excuse not to vote.

Voting doesn't not work; it works extremely well! What doesn't work is this constant attitude of trying to take yourself out of the equation. And it's frustrating that so many on the left still can't learn this lesson when the right is teaching it to us all the time.
Quoting this again for truth
 

Tater

Member
Oct 30, 2017
2,595
The "fuck the Dems" mentality ITT could not more perfectly encapsulate why the right was able to succeed at this.

Conservative evangelicals and Republicans have been on the anti-abortion crusade for *50 years*. And across those five decades, did they ever say fuck the GOP? Did they blast both parties as the same? Did they seriously threaten to vote third party or form a new party or not vote at all? Did they say they would flee the country or burn the system down?

No. They spent 50 years mobilizing voters, electing as many anti-abortion Republicans as they could, kicking those who weren't sufficiently anti-abortion out of the party. They played an extremely long game and won it because they never took their eye off the ball: that the key to making policy is winning elections. No politician was too odious to ally with. Donald Trump should've been the most obvious candidate to run away from; instead they pledged their full support to him and had it pay off dividends. Meanwhile, so many progressive and other left-of-center voters basically spend every two years looking for an excuse not to vote.

Voting doesn't not work; it works extremely well! What doesn't work is this constant attitude of trying to take yourself out of the equation. And it's frustrating that so many on the left still can't learn this lesson when the right is teaching it to us all the time.
I know you've been quoted a bunch, but thank you for the post. Spot on.
 

bruhaha

Banned
Jun 13, 2018
4,122
Well, the point is to play hardball fuck Mitch and fuck the decorum. Even if the term expired and Mitch wins the senate, well, good luck to him to try and unseat a sitting Supreme Court Judge. That's the play.

Mitch would be happy to own the libs, especially if a progressive publication like New Republic agrees that he has the power to do so
 

excelsiorlef

Bad Praxis
Member
Oct 25, 2017
73,330
She needs to be honest about this. Retaking SCOTUS should be the priority. Democrats need to run on expanding the Court and diminishing the power of Roberts and his ilk who just gutted reproductive rights.

Real talk

Court expansion as the up front campaign policy is risky as fuck with the way the media and public reactions works
 

The Adder

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,160
The George Floyd protests were the largest our country has ever had and beyond his killer being convicted, all it led to in terms of combating systemic racism is.... doubling federal funding for police.

I'm not terribly optimistic
It got his killer convicted. It got Ahmad Arbery's murderers convicted. That wouldn't have happened without them.

That's what the problem with folks like you, and worse folks. Sustained campaigns, be it voting or protests, do not pay massive dividends immediately and do not guarantee those payouts forever. Small victories that pile on and grow over time are the best sign of success, not an indicator of failure. The Civil Rights movement didn't happen over a single simmer. It took Republicans 50 years of effort to get Roe overturned.

Y'all are either lazy, cowards, or both.
 

KatieKatsup

Prophet of Regret
Member
Oct 27, 2017
964
I'm guessing same sex marriage will be overturned too in a few weeks?

also no more contraception?
Sure looks like it. Bodily autonomy is dead in this country and we're accelerating at an alarming rate to strip away just about every personal liberty.

This and the other rulings this week such as Miranda Rights no longer being required to read and public tax funding required to go to religious schools should tell everyone everything they need to know about the fascist, autocratic, Christian theocracy this loud and powerful minority is making.

And we've seen it coming for years. Action must be taken now to course correct, but honestly I'm afraid it's already too late. The Court is telling us today what the end game is and they're going to get it.
 

asmith906

Member
Oct 27, 2017
27,437
Don't ever let anyone tell you voting isn't important. GOP knows this more than anyone else that's why they've spent so many years trying to limit who has access to the polls. This outcome has been their goal for decades. They started by taking over local elections which democrats for the most part have been ignoring while only focusing on national elections.
 

deepFlaw

Knights of Favonius World Tour '21
Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,503
Most likely not. The justification for overturning Roe was that of the implied right to privacy. An Implied right is very different from an actual right codified by law.

They literally can just say whatever they want and have it be considered true. Like that's their entire deal whenever they invoke the founding fathers and what they intended, etc. It is specifically something designed to sound credible (despite that they are completely unqualified when it comes to actually knowing that sort of history), so they can back up whatever point they want to make.

The specifics matter only in that some of the individual conservative justices have some quirks where they do actually care about one point or another and may split on that. But if they all want to do something, they can pull the reason out of thin air.
 

yogurt

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,887
Republicans have more voting power than Democrats. That's why it's worked for them and not the other way. They aren't on equal ground
Absolutely. The system is fucked and broken and needs to change. That change will probably have to happen outside of the bounds of electoral politics.

But while we're waiting for that change to happen we should all vote as much as possible for Dems to reduce harm.
 

LCGeek

Member
Oct 28, 2017
5,857
She was, but IDK that anyone else would've beaten trump in the primary that year, with or without her help

Except that's not my point at all.

How does not inciting the enemy or putting them in power become we could've had a better candidate?

Putin really succeeded his plot to send the US into a declining spiral.

He's just another pawn to an end FDR called out the elites wanting since he wanted to pack the courts.
 

Lord Fanny

Banned
Apr 25, 2020
25,953
6-3. Roberts can write whatever concurrence he wants, he still voted to overturn it.

No, it was 5-4 for the full overturn, 6-3 in favor of keeping the Mississippi law but done so due to Roberts wanting compromise. It's impossible to know what he would have done if the make up was different, but factually, it was 5-4
 

Sain

Member
Nov 13, 2017
1,534
The "fuck the Dems" mentality ITT could not more perfectly encapsulate why the right was able to succeed at this.

Conservative evangelicals and Republicans have been on the anti-abortion crusade for *50 years*. And across those five decades, did they ever say fuck the GOP? Did they blast both parties as the same? Did they seriously threaten to vote third party or form a new party or not vote at all? Did they say they would flee the country or burn the system down?

No. They spent 50 years mobilizing voters, electing as many anti-abortion Republicans as they could, kicking those who weren't sufficiently anti-abortion out of the party. They played an extremely long game and won it because they never took their eye off the ball: that the key to making policy is winning elections. No politician was too odious to ally with. Donald Trump should've been the most obvious candidate to run away from; instead they pledged their full support to him and had it pay off dividends. Meanwhile, so many progressive and other left-of-center voters basically spend every two years looking for an excuse not to vote.

Voting doesn't not work; it works extremely well! What doesn't work is this constant attitude of trying to take yourself out of the equation. And it's frustrating that so many on the left still can't learn this lesson when the right is teaching it to us all the time.

Very well said. Great post, Blader.
 
5-4 Decision

OfficerRob

Member
Oct 25, 2017
26,124
People, the vote to overturn Roe was 5-4, not 6-3. Please pay attention!!!

The court, in a 6-3 ruling powered by its conservative majority, upheld a Republican-backed Mississippi law that bans abortion after 15 weeks. The vote was 5-4 to overturn Roe, with Chief Justice John Roberts writing separately to say he would have upheld the Mississippi law but not taken the additional step of erasing the precedent altogether.

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/us-supreme-court-overturns-abortion-rights-landmark-2022-06-24/