GhostTrick

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,531
I'm not impressed by the responses here.



The game could be bought for 45€ before. It's now 60€ only.
Explain to me why I should be happy for a 15€ raise ?
The game was sold on 15 stores. Now on 1 store. Explain me how there's not less choices here.
The game supported more features on Steam such as cloud saves, streaming and library sharing. Now it doesnt. Explain me how it makes no difference here.
 

Alexandros

Member
Oct 26, 2017
18,020
How are there less choices? Its on the PC, you can buy it on your PC.

The PC is not an walled garden. It is an platform that functions as a base for other smaller ecosystems to exist and provide services. Unlike a console platform where the only entity providing services is the platform holder, on PC the platform holder (Microsoft) is one of the many other entities that can provide services. Under normal circumstances customers would have the option of purchasing Supergiant's game from a variety of services. As it stands right now the game is only available through the Epic Games Store. This means that customers have significantly less choice on where to buy the game from.
 

duckroll

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,987
Singapore
A lot of folks here weren't raising all this fuss when Civ V became a Steam Exclusive years ago (that was the death knell of Impulse and Gamersgate as independent services- it was a killshot right to the heart of their niche)

The main complaint I think is people want a monopoly here on game provider- they want Steam to have everything beause it's convenient for them. The issue is that 30% cut is becoming something game publishers are willing to go to war in order to lower.
Wasn't Civ V only a Steam exclusive for a digital deluxe edition? You could still buy the game at retail and from any online store selling keys. Can you do the same for Hades?
 

giraffereyn

Banned
Jan 20, 2019
327
Obviously we shouldn't be naive about why they are saying this, but it doesn't have to be interpreted as supportive of how the Epic store currently works but rather a general statement of more high profile competitors in a market can more more innovation and benefits for the consumer (but not always).

I'm not a PC gamer so I can't say I've been keeping a real close eye on this, but how the Epic store is now isn't how it will be in five years assuming there is still an Epic store. It feels like some are bothered by this and instead of pushing for positive changes or being hopeful that the competition of Steam and GOG and other storefronts will cause Epic to change for the better they just want Epic store to cease existing. Maybe that would be better, but maybe Epic changes for the better and becomes another competitor that pushes Steam and introduces some good or cool feature of idea that becomes industry standard?
Thats the idea of competition if it all goes well.
Steam's ecosystem with its freely generated keys and expected 30% storefront cut allowed for a lot of key resellers to pop up, offering games for cheaper even during the period before the customary price drop. Epic's 12% cut and no keys make that impossible. SO when before you could check several stores to see if you could get a nice discount (and the answer was generally yes), now you are stuck with whatever the game is priced on Epic. People tend to dislike that.
This seems inevitable for all the stores? Do we expect more money hats after these early ones?
 

Aiii

何これ
Member
Oct 24, 2017
8,388
I'm not a PC gamer so I can't say I've been keeping a real close eye on this, but how the Epic store is now isn't how it will be in five years assuming there is still an Epic store. It feels like some are bothered by this and instead of pushing for positive changes or being hopeful that the competition of Steam and GOG and other storefronts will cause Epic to change for the better they just want Epic store to cease existing. Maybe that would be better, but maybe Epic changes for the better and becomes another competitor that pushes Steam and introduces some good or cool feature of idea that becomes industry standard?
Call us when that happens. Because hypotheticals don't help anyone forced into using the Epic Store now.

Until now, all the evidence points to Epic Store competing by moneyhatting exclusivity, rather than creating a better product for consumers.
 

MaLDo

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,439
Competition is good that's why I put my game exclusively in one barebones storefront.
 

duckroll

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,987
Singapore
This seems inevitable for all the stores? Do we expect more money hats after these early ones?
We can expect any system that works to continue being practiced. If Epic refuses to allow developers and publishers to generate keys, then any game which is exclusive to the Epic Store can only be acquired on the Epic Store. It's not just a matter of money hats, it's a matter of how their storefront functions, which is designed to reduce competition.
 

svacina

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,458
This seems inevitable for all the stores? Do we expect more money hats after these early ones?
What seems inevitable? You understand that those discounts are funded by the storefronts form their own cut, right? You can't offer meaningful discounts on a 12% cut while maintaining profitability.

Epic themselves are on record advising devs not to sell Epic keys (when they would be available) on any other stores.
 

duckroll

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,987
Singapore
This is what is incredibly hilarious about all this.

Like...this isn't like some shitty console third party exclusivity and you had to buy another piece of hardware to play the game.

You can still buy and play these games on the PC you already own lol. I don't see the issue.
Store exclusivity is a reduction of choice. It's not about platform wars it's about competitive pricing for consumers. I have a choice between buying Japanese books from Amazon Japan or Kinokuniya locally. The books are usually 30% more expensive at Kinokuniya, so I buy from Amazon Japan. Now if a product is exclusive to Kinokuniya, I will have to pay whatever they want to charge for it, without an alternative choice on the market. In the end it's still a book, and it still goes on my shelf, but having purchase options is valuable.
 

giraffereyn

Banned
Jan 20, 2019
327
What seems inevitable? You understand that those discounts are funded by the storefronts form their own cut, right? You can't offer meaningful discounts on a 12% cut while maintaining profitability.

Epic themselves are on record advising devs not to sell Epic keys (when they would be available) on any other stores.
They can't money hat every game that comes out though. Is any game on the Epic store meant to be an exclusive? Are we not expecting the Epic sotre to just be another place that games release on? Release on Steam to get the higher populace or release on Epic for the better cut and attention.
 

Paul

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,603
I wonder what would happen to stores like GMG, Fanatical etc if Valve lowered the revenue split to 15/85 for everyone.

We already have one casualty, the fair price guarantee feature on GOG. This actively worsened deal for us, customers. Thanks Epic.
 

sirap

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,237
South East Asia
This is what is incredibly hilarious about all this.

Like...this isn't like some shitty console third party exclusivity and you had to buy another piece of hardware to play the game.

You can still buy and play these games on the PC you already own lol. I don't see the issue.


Every fucking time lol.

We're going to need a bingo card for future EGS threads.
 

Alexandros

Member
Oct 26, 2017
18,020
I'm not impressed by the responses here.

I don't think anyone is interested in impressing you. Read some previous threads and if you still feel like you are not satisfied by the responses there then we'll gladly talk about it. It is a complicated issue and some amount of knowledge is required for a meaningful discussion.
 

Sandersson

Banned
Feb 5, 2018
2,535
"I have zero fear that like, I can love Steam and your love for one platform doesn't need to come at the exclusion of another."

This reads like a parody. Are they honestly this dense or do they think their readers are?
 

tulpa

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
3,878
1. Services : No cloud saves for Metro Exodus. No library sharing for Metro Exodus. No Steam Input support for Metro Exodus. No Linux for Metro Exodus. No Big Picture Mode for Metro Exodus. No community guides for Metro Exodus. No Screenshot sharing for Metro Exodus.
Well, indeed they have some ways to go, but I think it's pretty absurd to expect a new storefront to match Steam's decade-plus of feature accumulation on launch. They are doing a fairly good job of responding to what people want and implementing new features in a timely manner.
2. Prices : Before EGS deal, the game was sold for 45 to 60 euros on 15 stores. After EGS deal, the game is sold for 60 euros on 1 store. In Europe we pay the game 15€ more, a nearly 50% increase in price.
In USA, it's cheaper than on Steam it's true. 50 dollars vs 60 dollars. But it's also more expensive than what it was on Razer Game Store which were carrying the game for 45 dollars + a 10 dollars voucher for a 20 dollars purchase.
But I'm afraid you're cherrypicking the areas where the prices increased (and that's unfortunate and they should remedy it) while handwaving away the areas where prices decreased (not only US, but other regions that don't have regional pricing for Steam) by using a game store that no longer exists running a promo (wonder why they went under) as evidence the prices have increased.

I don't know why I post in these threads anymore. It's clear that there is a small but very vocal minority of PC gamers with a real hate boner for the Epic Store and they aren't amenable to argument on this. They keep saying Epic is this terrible service for consumers, but always handwave it when I point out that I quite like it as a consumer when I get great games for free or cheaper. Really happy to get Thimbleweed Park, though! Been wanting to play that one. Like most people, I'll carrying on using Epic (and Steam, and Origin, and whatever else) and not really be represented in these threads since we don't really care enough about it to spend time complaining on forums about it.
 

LewieP

Member
Oct 26, 2017
18,229
Anyone unfamiliar with how the market for Steam keys operates, and how Epic is restricting competition, should watch this video




What seems inevitable? You understand that those discounts are funded by the storefronts form their own cut, right? You can't offer meaningful discounts on a 12% cut while maintaining profitability.

Epic themselves are on record advising devs not to sell Epic keys (when they would be available) on any other stores.
Huh that passed me by, when did Epic say that?

Them accepting the bag of money is the result of there being competition. Not that I'm defending Epic's practices, just finding fault with the reasoning behind your post.

No it is the result of Epic seeking to avoid competition.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,644
If you came into this thread thinking, "Wait, Supergiant has a new game? Is the exclusivity timed?" because you're like me and anything Epic-exclusive fell off your radar by default, the answer is this:

Hades FAQ said:
Why is Hades available only via the Epic Games store? Will it come to other platforms?

We've never launched a game into Early Access before, and our players have come to expect complete, self-contained games from us ever since Bastion's debut in 2011. With Hades, we knew we really wanted to create a game we could develop in partnership with the community, and from talking to the folks at Epic, we realized their store would be the perfect place to conduct our latest experiment.

Our focus during Early Access will be on making Hades the best game possible. If you're the sort of player who's open to and interested in experiencing a game like ours take shape over time, you'll be able to take part in its journey on the Epic Games store. If you'd prefer to wait until the game is 100% complete, we expect Hades will eventually be available on a variety of platforms, once Early Access is complete.

In short: Epic-exclusive for Early Access, full release elsewhere at an unspecified date later. Given how the FAQ takes pains not to mention Steam by name, we can perhaps assume they're restricted from naming/confirming it directly as part of their deal with Epic. (Unless, of course, they're using the word "platforms" to fudge their way around the Steam question by referring to consoles. I haven't been following this. But the fact that all of Supergiant's materials go out of their way to avoid giving a straight answer indicates to me that, at this time, they can't and won't.)
 

McScroggz

The Fallen
Jan 11, 2018
5,981
Call us when that happens. Because hypotheticals don't help anyone forced into using the Epic Store now.

Until now, all the evidence points to Epic Store competing by moneyhatting exclusivity, rather than creating a better product for consumers.

I get that. It's good there's been a lot of pushback. I'm definitely not defending Epic.

My point is that if Epic can grow, change for the better and become a high profile competitor to Steam that would hopefully result in some benefit to consumers because of the competition.

If Epic continues to do things that people really dislike, it's unlikely they will grow into a serious competitor for Steam. Until then, feel free to call them out; but I wouldn't dismiss the potential to assuage to consumer demands at least to a reasonable degree.
 

Yas

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
503
Arctic Circle, Finland
This is what is incredibly hilarious about all this.

Like...this isn't like some shitty console third party exclusivity and you had to buy another piece of hardware to play the game.

You can still buy and play these games on the PC you already own lol. I don't see the issue.
Oh great, I wasn't sure how I could run these games on my Red Hat. Could you please tell me how I can do that if I buy the game through EGS?
 

Ge0force

Self-requested ban.
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
5,265
Belgium
Epic paying devs to keep their games away from competing storefronts is the opposite of what I expect from healthy competition. I will not spend my money on any games involved in these store exclusivity deals, and with each moneyhat that Epic pulls off, it becomes less likely that I'll ever be using their store.
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,082
Canada
In what way have services got worse and prices got higher? In the case of the recent Metro Exodus "fiasco," the service got better (Epic added regional pricing, including for regions never before covered by any other store) and the price of the game went down.

Epic doesn't support CAD. So Metro Exodus actually got a few dollars more expensive, and I cant even go to sites like GMG, Fanatical or Humble to get an extra discount to make up for it.

Now I can pay more money, get less features, and have to rely on Epic's piss poor security. What an amazing deal, Thanks Epic!
 

Hektor

Community Resettler
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,884
Deutschland
In what way have services got worse and prices got higher? In the case of the recent Metro Exodus "fiasco," the service got better (Epic added regional pricing, including for regions never before covered by any other store) and the price of the game went down.

The Price of the game didn't went down, it went up.
Firstly, the 10€ Discount is US only, secondly, q 10€ Discount is a downgrade, from the 20-25€ discou nts PCgamers are used to receive for every Major AAA title.

A lot of folks here weren't raising all this fuss when Civ V became a Steam Exclusive years ago

Apart from the fact that this take is factually incorrect, as i remember quite a few People back then still being upset about having to use steam at all, valve didn't paid them to remove their game from These other storefronts.


As a consumer, we have no reason to give a shit how hard or easy this is for epic to pull off, furthermore, they can't even match steam as of 2009 or origin as of 2011.
 

3bdelilah

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
1,615
being money hatted != competition.

Also what other stores is Hades on, on PC btw?

Not saying Epic are saints, nor am I saying they're devils. But it's hard to compete with literal industry giants like Valve with Steam, it's sheer impossible even. Steam is pretty much a synonym for PC gaming at this point. I can't even find a proper analogy for it compared to other industries. So how can you still get a foot in? Either working your ass off, work years on PR, build a minuscule tiny base and then grow slowly, offer something distinctive that others don't (like GOG with DRM-free games). Or skip all those steps and go straight to the industry's throat with money hatting if you have the resources. My only problem with Epic, aside from their very limited client but I'm confident it's a work in progress, is their shitty regional pricing. But other than that I'd say money hat all you want in the beginning, and grow, evolve, and mature from there.
 

Fiery Phoenix

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,923
I like these guys less and less the more games they release. It's too bad because they started out great.
 

Heckler456

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,256
Belgium
The argument being made is that "competition is good for customers". The moneyhats that Epic is throwing around might be competition in the business sense but customers are interested in competition that provides benefits to them. Competition that is good for customers.
It could still potentially be beneficial for consumers. There is nothing that states that every consumers needs to be able to get every single product through every single medium. It's always going to be a balance thing. If Hades becomes exclusive to Epic store, but the game becomes more financially viable as a result, that's still a win for consumers in the end. Not to mention what this means for subsequent projects of Supergiant that might get better funding, thus resulting in a better product.
 

GhostTrick

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,531
Well, indeed they have some ways to go, but I think it's pretty absurd to expect a new storefront to match Steam's decade-plus of feature accumulation on launch. They are doing a fairly good job of responding to what people want and implementing new features in a timely manner.

Oh, so you agree the service got worse ? Because you told me "no the service didn't get worse ! you're being hyperbolic !" and now telling me "b-but these things takes time !"
By the way:
https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/valve-announces-steam-cloud
2008. 2008 for Cloud Saves. How is that absurd to expect a new storefront to be UP TO PAR with features we're supposed to expect ? Would it have been okay if they had no friend list either ? "Because Steam took a decade to implement features !"
Not only you're moving goalposts here but you're bad at it.


But I'm afraid you're cherrypicking the areas where the prices increased (and that's unfortunate and they should remedy it) while handwaving away the areas where prices decreased (not only US, but other regions that don't have regional pricing for Steam) by using a game store that no longer exists running a promo (wonder why they went under) as evidence the prices have increased.

I took Europe and USA. The game store that no longer exist was still there when the preorders were up. And there was still alternatives with Green Man Gaming or Voidu. Heck, as a student, I get a 30% voucher with Voidu. The game would've been 42 euros for me. Not anymore. Yes, i'm cherry picking prices. Because guess what ? When you have the choice between 15 stores, you can cherry pick where you buy from. That means even in the worst case, in USA, the game was made 5 dollars more expensive back then.[/QUOTE]

I don't know why I post in these threads anymore. It's clear that there is a small but very vocal minority of PC gamers with a real hate boner for the Epic Store and they aren't amenable to argument on this. They keep saying Epic is this terrible service for consumers, but always handwave it when I point out that I quite like it as a consumer when I get great games for free or cheaper. Really happy to get Thimbleweed Park, though! Been wanting to play that one. Like most people, I'll carrying on using Epic (and Steam, and Origin, and whatever else) and not really be represented in these threads since we don't really care enough about it to spend time complaining on forums about it.

"they aren't amenable to argument on this"
I explained you it made the service worse and more expensive.
If you cant (and you cant) tell me how paying more for less is good, yes, you shouldn't bother. If you are only able to spout blanket statements then maybe you shouldn't bother indeed.


Not saying Epic are saints, nor am I saying they're devils. But it's hard to compete with literal industry giants like Valve with Steam, it's sheer impossible even. Steam is pretty much a synonym for PC gaming at this point. I can't even find a proper analogy for it compared to other industries. So how can you still get a foot in? Either working your ass off, work years on PR, build a minuscule tiny base and then grow slowly, offer something distinctive that others don't (like GOG with DRM-free games). Or skip all those steps and go straight to the industry's throat with money hatting if you have the resources. My only problem with Epic, aside from their very limited client but I'm confident it's a work in progress, is their shitty regional pricing. But other than that I'd say money hat all you want in the beginning, and grow, evolve, and mature from there.

If you can't compete, then it means you have no place in the market. Plain and simple. Why should we have sympathy for a big company if they bring nothing on the table for us to use their store ? Freebies are good, but they are freebies. It's not what you get for buying there. It's basically an advertisement.
 

giraffereyn

Banned
Jan 20, 2019
327
I feel like there is a lack of honesty when we talk about options for purchasing games. It sounds like a lot of us are saying we don't want to pay full price and valve and its storefront made it easy to get games cheap because discovery was so hard on the platform that devs were forced to provides deals just to get their name out there.

So, am I super off the mark or did we really think this loop hole was going to last forever?

Sorry if I'm coming of as malicious but this is the status quo I remember from a few years ago.
 

LewieP

Member
Oct 26, 2017
18,229
I feel like there is a lack of honesty when we talk about options for purchasing games. It sounds like a lot of us are saying we don't want to pay full price and valve and its storefront made it easy to get games cheap because discovery was so hard on the platform that devs were forced to provides deals just to get their name out there.

So, am I super off the mark or did we really think this loop hole was going to last forever?

Sorry if I'm coming of as malicious but this is the status quo I remember from a few years ago.
The economic term for the process you are describing is "competition", a function of supply vs demand.
 

GhostTrick

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,531
I feel like there is a lack of honesty when we talk about options for purchasing games. It sounds like a lot of us are saying we don't want to pay full price and valve and its storefront made it easy to get games cheap because discovery was so hard on the platform that devs were forced to provides deals just to get their name out there.

So, am I super off the mark or did we really think this loop hole was going to last forever?

Sorry if I'm coming of as malicious but this is the status quo I remember from a few years ago.


Not devs. Storefronts. Devs aren't providing deals. And what does it have to do with discovery ? You're totally out of the loop yes. As you said, you don't play on PC so that might be why.
 

VerySerious

Member
Oct 25, 2017
617
I don't know how they'd retaliate. More curation? Better curation tools? Better % to publisher? They could also buy exclusives and give them top billing in terms of advertising. There are several ways to crack an egg. There are many ways I can think of right now that would make Steam's storefront even more attractive. Reasons to keep your purchases in one ecosystem.

Valve already have a policy where their cut is reduced to 25% after $10m in sales and to 20% after $50m: https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2018/12/01/steam-taking-smaller-sales-cut-from-bigger-games/
It might not be enough to counter Epic's deals but at least Valve are trying to compete for publishers as well as customers. Granted, it'll only benefit the larger ones, but considering they're the ones Epic are trying to make deals with, it's not surprising to see Valve try to keep AAA publishers as happy as possible.

As for the curation tools, they're working on improvements to those too:
Valve said:
Store Discoverability: We're working on a new recommendation engine powered by machine-learning, that can match players to games based on their individual tastes. Algorithms are only a part of our discoverability solution, however, so we're building more broadcasting and curating features and are constantly assessing the overall design of the store.

From here: https://steamcommunity.com/groups/steamworks/announcements/detail/1697194621363928453

Can Valve do more to compete with all these exclusivity deals? Of course! But it's safe to say that they're already pretty competitive; they're working on plenty of stuff for both devs and customers and have just started publicising that.
 
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sredgrin

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
12,276
I feel like there is a lack of honesty when we talk about options for purchasing games. It sounds like a lot of us are saying we don't want to pay full price and valve and its storefront made it easy to get games cheap because discovery was so hard on the platform that devs were forced to provides deals just to get their name out there.

So, am I super off the mark or did we really think this loop hole was going to last forever?

Sorry if I'm coming of as malicious but this is the status quo I remember from a few years ago.

You aren't coming off so much as malicious as much as you're just creating a strawman and attacking it.

The options for cheap games from places like GMG that absorbed the discount themselves. The devs were making the same amount of money, the storefront was the one competing for our business.
 

Hektor

Community Resettler
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,884
Deutschland
I feel like there is a lack of honesty when we talk about options for purchasing games. It sounds like a lot of us are saying we don't want to pay full price and valve and its storefront made it easy to get games cheap because discovery was so hard on the platform that devs were forced to provides deals just to get their name out there.

So, am I super off the mark or did we really think this loop hole was going to last forever?

Sorry if I'm coming of as malicious but this is the status quo I remember from a few years ago.

Storefronts are providing these discounts via their own 30% split, the developers have nothing to do with these discounts whatsoever and get the same money per sale as ever
 
Oct 27, 2017
5,494
This is what is incredibly hilarious about all this.

Like...this isn't like some shitty console third party exclusivity and you had to buy another piece of hardware to play the game.

You can still buy and play these games on the PC you already own lol. I don't see the issue.

No. That's not how this works.

Look at any Ubi game. Assassin's Creed Odyssey, for example. That game is available in two stores, at least: uPlay (Ubi's own store) and Steam. Let's say that you want to buy the game. What do you do? You look at the two storefronts and see which one offers you the best deal for your money. Let's say that Ubi's store offers the game cheaper, but it lacks the integrated functions of the Steam client. The Steam version is more expensive, but you get all the features of the client (Achievements, Steam cloud saves, etc.). Given this information, you make a decision and purchase the game on uPlay.

That is what "competition" that benefits the customer is like. You are given a range of options and you choose the one that suits your needs better. This creates an incentive for storefronts to offer better deals, so they attract more customers.

Putting your game on one platform and saying "it's this or nothing" is not competition. It's exactly the opposite. It may be great for Epic, because they get exclusive games... but you, the customer, are not Epic. Why should you defend the megacorporation that is Epic, when it goes against your best interests?
 

PaulLFC

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,182
Competition is good for customers, yes.

Except, this isn't competition. It's exclusivity, which is the exact opposite.
 

tulpa

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
3,878
Epic doesn't support CAD. So Metro Exodus actually got a few dollars more expensive.

Now I can pay more money, get less features, and have to rely on Epic's piss poor security. What an amazing deal, Thanks Epic!
Okay. I think that sucks and they still need to work on the regional pricing and making sure those discounts are reflected across regions. I can get it for cheaper, but I guess I can't say anything positive or talk about a positive experience, since only negativity counts or is valid when it comes to Epic.
The Price of the game didn't went down, it went up.
Firstly, the 10€ Discount is US only, secondly, q 10€ Discount is a downgrade, from the 20-25€ discou nts PCgamers are used to receive for every Major AAA title.
Yeah, and often through grey market retailers like CDKeys. But it wasn't only US region that had the price lowered. Like I said, when Epic introduced regional pricing for regions that hadn't had it anymore, it lowered the cost of the game.
Yes? We have the same expectations for every other product. Why should EGS get a pass?
Sorry, you expect every storefront to launch with the same full features set as Steam that Valve had more than a decade to build? I think that's a very strange expectation and I dispute the idea that every new product is expected to have the exact same feature set as a competing product that has had decades to develop its features
Oh, so you agree the service got worse ? Because you told me "no the service didn't get worse ! you're being hyperbolic !" and now telling me "b-but these things takes time !"
By the way:
https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/valve-announces-steam-cloud
2008. 2008 for Cloud Saves. How is that absurd to expect a new storefront to be UP TO PAR with features we're supposed to expect ? Would it have been okay if they had no friend list either ? "Because Steam took a decade to implement features !"
Not only you're moving goalposts here but you're bad at it.
No, I said that to act like the price rose and the feature set got worse in all cases isn't true. If you want to find a place where I said they had the same feature set as Valve, I'm looking forward you producing the quotation.
I took Europe and USA. The game store that no longer exist was still there when the preorders were up. And there was still alternatives with Green Man Gaming or Voidu. Heck, as a student, I get a 30% voucher with Voidu. The game would've been 42 euros for me. Not anymore. Yes, i'm cherry picking prices. Because guess what ? When you have the choice between 15 stores, you can cherry pick where you buy from. That means even in the worst case, in USA, the game was made 5 dollars more expensive back then
You're not just cherrypicking, you're even throwing in student discounts as if that's a valid or fair way to measure pricing. It doesn't exactly defend against the idea that you're going out of your way to cherrypick examples that make Epic look bad on pricing.
"they aren't amenable to argument on this"
I explained you it made the service worse and more expensive.
In some cases and I've happily acknowledged they have a ways to go. But you won't even acknowledge the cases where people are paying less for the same game because that doesn't fit with your 'Epic is the root of all evil' narrative
If you cant (and you cant) tell me how paying more for less is good, yes, you shouldn't bother. If you are only able to spout blanket statements then maybe you shouldn't bother indeed.
You're the only one spouting blanket statements. I'm acknowledging that the experience is variable across regions and storefronts while you are trying to act like your region's pricing (and even your student discount!) is an option for everyone.
 

Valdega

Banned
Sep 7, 2018
1,609
They can't money hat every game that comes out though. Is any game on the Epic store meant to be an exclusive? Are we not expecting the Epic sotre to just be another place that games release on? Release on Steam to get the higher populace or release on Epic for the better cut and attention.

Epic paid publishers and developers for timed exclusivity (1 year). That's it. It's not about getting more attention or a lower cut. It's about getting that immediate cash bonus before selling a single unit. Developers and publishers figured that the cash bonus would be enough to compensate for the sales lost in the first year. In the case of Division 2, the decision was made because Ubisoft wanted to push customers towards Uplay. When it's Uplay vs Steam, Uplay loses. When it's Uplay vs EGS, Uplay wins. That's why Division 2 sales on Uplay are significantly higher than Division 1 sales on Uplay. Ubisoft gets a hefty bribe from Epic AND they sell more copies on their own platform. It's a win-win for Ubisoft.

Sorry, you expect every storefront to launch with the same full features set as Steam that Valve had more than a decade to build? I think that's a very strange expectation and I dispute the idea that every new product is expected to have the exact same feature set as a competing product that has had decades to develop its features

I don't think anyone expected full feature parity at launch. Just basic things like cloud saves, regional pricing, forums, wishlists, etc. The bare minimum that an actual competitor would want for launch.

Epic has had 15 years to learn from Steam and its competitors. There's plenty of data about what customers want and expect from digital platforms. This isn't some brand new market that Epic is entering.
 
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Alexandros

Member
Oct 26, 2017
18,020
It could still potentially be beneficial for consumers. There is nothing that states that every consumers needs to be able to get every single product through every single medium. It's always going to be a balance thing. If Hades becomes exclusive to Epic store, but the game becomes more financially viable as a result, that's still a win for consumers in the end. Not to mention what this means for subsequent projects of Supergiant that might get better funding, thus resulting in a better product.

This argument has been made before. However, it is extremely nebulous and it is based on a theory of hypothetical trickle-down benefits for customers that no one can actually demonstrate. If the game becomes more financially viable it might become a better game. For many people, this unspecified, unclear and uncertain improvement of the end product is not enough justification to accept business practices that limit customer choice and set a bad precedent on the platform.