Super Smash Bros Ultimate has 19 white male characters (6 of which are blue eyed / blonde hair), and 0 women of color

[Scarlet Spider]

Does anybody else find this a bit....problamatic?

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No, I don't really care if there's characters that look like me/has my skin color. It's something I never even notice, regardless of media. If I find them cool/their character traits appealing I will enjoy them. Their race/gender doesn't really cross my mind. But that's just how I feel about OP's question.

 

[AzVal]

Doesn't this topic comes out as a new thread like every 2 months or so? We should have a Megathread at this point, just as we have the sexualization one

I am sure this will come again when terry is released and when the 5th is released, even if its Elma herself, and the same things that was brought last time will be said now and then Its not an issue of Smash its an issue about the industry (and media to an extent) itself, as pointed out is not Sakurai the one creating characters, just choosing the most popular representative character out of existing franchises.

How comes no one is complaining about latino, representation or certain religious groups representation?. TBH as a latino I dont care, but I guess thats just me.

 

[ResetGreyWolf]

Pretty sure we had this exact same thread back when the game came out, but yeah, the game is celebrating gaming history moreso than recent games, and gaming history has been predominently white male. As the game focuses on Japanese characters in particular, it is sadly even moreso the case that most iconic characters are white.

 

[NeonZ]

they don't really have the same build though, do they

Ocarina Impa could snap Sheik like a twig

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Impa should be taller, but Sheik in Smash by now is already bigger than Zelda for some reason, so it wouldn't really be an issue (Ganondorf's height is also reduced, but it's still noticeably taller than Link which is what matters in his case).

 

[Quinho]

Errors of writing?
you are not making any sense op.

Asians are not white and they sure are diverse for this.

 

[Mobu]

Who do own Lee Everett rights?? (since Telltale is dead)

 

[Mekanos]

I genuinely can't think of many notable dark skinned Nintendo characters besides Claude, Elma, and Impa (and even that varies). You have some side characters like Twintelle and Urbosa but the chances they would get into Smash are nearly nonexistent.

Both western and Japanese game series have generally speaking failed to make leading characters that fit this.

 

[Deleted member 11413]

I feel like OP is doing that thing where they mistake anime-style designs as white when 90% of the time they are coded as Japanese.

 

[etrain911]

I think it's a little bit of whitewashing to ignore Ryu like that, but I agree that the lack of diversity is troubling as that's only one character out of several.

 

[Spinosaurus]

If a Three House character is on the table Claude's honestly the best choice. A brown man (that isn't literally the king of evil) and an archer focused moveset would be great.

He'd probably be passed up for Byleth or Edelgard despite his popularity though.

 

[Sea lion]

Most of the anime characters are Asian.
Just because they dont have black hair doesn't make them white.

 

[TooBusyLookinGud]

As a PoC I don't have a problem with it.

That being said I wouldn't object to have more diversity

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This is where I am honestly. I don't have an issue with it, but wouldn't mind seeing different skin types.

Most of the anime characters are Asian.
Just because they dont have black hair doesn't make them white.

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This is true. Perception of many Americans is that they are white and not asian.

 

[Deleted member 11413]

Most of the anime characters are Asian.
Just because they dont have black hair doesn't make them white.

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Yup, Marth, Chrom, Lucina, Corrin, Ike, and Roy should all be read as Asian. Same goes for Ryu (duh), DQ Hero, Joker, Mega-Man, etc. Characters like Terry are obviously intended to be white because their backstory has them coming from the US but otherwise if it's an anime design, you should assume they are Asian unless otherwise specified.

 

[Linde]

if anybody can look at a character like Marth and think "this is a white male" or "this is a white female"
they are probably of questionable authority and havent seen enough different people in their life

 

[TheGreatDirector]

Nintendo lacks representation of non white/non asian characters. Can't really think of a 1st party game of theirs with a lead that's black, hispanic/latino, indigenous, or Indian.

 

[Spinosaurus]

Nintendo lacks representation of non white/non asian characters. Can't really think of a 1st party game of theirs with a lead that's black, hispanic/latino, indigenous, or Indian.

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Claude is very specifically middle eastern coded, but he's sharing the spotlight with light skin characters so he's got competition.

 

[Spinluck]

People are gonna harp on the things they care for first and foremost though. It's the nature of well, everything. I agree that people should be more consistent but it seems at the moment people are hesitant to even add "tokens" as you say - and I think they might be a bigger problem here tbh. There is always some excuse to not have a POC in a game in a leading role - or in this case just on the damn roster (the market, history, main characters/etc). I'm not saying that we should get like one black person in everything and call it a day. I'm not saying that this shouldn't be talked about more - in fact I want there to be tons of black people in games, I want there to be tons of brown people in games and I want them to be reflective of the vast personalities and character types that exist in the world over. (I also want people to stop giving Japanese Devs a pass on this - especially Nintendo, there is no good reason they can't make a dark skinned MC)

I don't see how what you are doing helps the case at all. People demanding more representation shouldn't be discouraged or mocked on account of not demanding it of the whole industry, each and every time they complain. That's just counterproductive.

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This is exactly what you're saying.

You are framing me as defending Smash when I'm calling out the industry on AND POINTING OUT SMASH AS DIRECT RESULT OF IT. Those games I posted are coming out this year or next and feature the same generic white characters after another from both the East and West.

I still get games where I can't make a black character look black in character creators. You aren't really in any position to tell me how I should feel about the matter. Regardless of how you'd like to interpret my argument. Put your money where your mouth is.

 

[NSESN]

If a Three House character is on the table Claude's honestly the best choice. A brown man (that isn't literally the king of evil) and an archer focused moveset would be great.

He'd probably be passed up for Byleth or Edelgard despite his popularity though.

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Not only that but his arc has a lot to do with what we are talking about in this thread

 

[IntelliHeath]

I think it's a little bit of whitewashing to ignore Ryu like that, but I agree that the lack of diversity is troubling as that's only one character out of several.

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I don't think many people knew that Ken is actually 1/2 American 1/2 Japanese whom dyed their hairs blonde. So that's why you could see his eyebrows being black because it's his natural colors.

 

[TheGreatDirector]

Claude is very specifically middle eastern coded, but he's sharing the spotlight with light skin characters so he's got competition.

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That being coded is different from deliberately outright being.

 

[Jaded Alyx]

I don't think many people knew that Ken is actually 1/2 American 1/2 Japanese whom dyed their hairs blonde. So that's why you could see his eyebrows being black because it's his natural colors.

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3/4 Japanese

 

[Common Knowledge]

Claude from Three Houses would be a great addition, but if that game is getting a rep, it would very likely either be Byleth (ugh) or Edelgard.

 

[PonyStation]

Aren't a lot of the characters Asian?

 

[Spinluck]

I don't understand, the last four characters you posted are Chinese, Brazilian, Japanese, and Japanese.

I mean I guess I appreciate not cherry picking the data?

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Gaming is predominately a white and Asian space. Show me the characters of color being the forefront of new releases and I'll shut up.

 

[IntelliHeath]

3/4 Japanese

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Ah, right. I forget that his father is half Japanese.

 

[Spinosaurus]

That being coded is different from deliberately outright being.

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True, but regardless he's still pretty much from fictional mid east and one with an arc of being othered due to racial differences, so it's still a step in the right direction. As an arab I'd personally be very happy with him.

 

[Sea lion]

Yup, Marth, Chrom, Lucina, Corrin, Ike, and Roy should all be read as Asian. Same goes for Ryu (duh), DQ Hero, Joker, Mega-Man, etc. Characters like Terry are obviously intended to be white because their backstory has them coming from the US but otherwise if it's an anime design, you should assume they are Asian unless otherwise specified.

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Aye, like why would Japan represent Whites more than their own race.
I do agree Nintendo needs more representation and diversity though, they are getting better, but its only been recently you could choose your skin colour in Animal Crossing, a game all about customization. Twintelle should have been the lead female in Arms too over generic Ribbon Girl.

 

[Spinluck]

She probably will never be. The vast majority of ARMS's characters have those distinct spring-like arms, which is something only her and Mechanica don't have.

Min Min would probably become this before her anyway. I believe she won the popularity tournament or whatever.

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I don't think this really matters though as she still made it in the game. Zelda isn't about Link and Metroid isn't named after Samus. Nintendo has never had this issue before.

 

[The Turbanator]

Not at all to discredit the OP, but do we really need a completely new thread every month about the topic when the exact same opinions are shared every time? This thread should've ended after the first post, which should've been OP being linked the other 4 threads about the same thing.

 

[GuEiMiRrIRoW]

Well, Diversity and Inclusion isnt important for everyone.

But for some of us, it would be great to feel somewhat represented in our favorite games. I realize that Nintendo (and Japanese games in general) only represent Japanese and White people, for the most part.

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It's Nintendo fault? Really?

 

[BigBlue]

My problem with people saying stuff like "Oh Link and Snake are Japanese" is that these characters have very clear eurocentric features.... (and in general most Japanese characters just dont resemble japanese people in their features, but rather white people)

It seems like a lazy excuse to say when people bring up diversity.

 

[Deleted member 11413]

That being coded is different from deliberately outright being.

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Yes but we are talking about characters from fantasy games here, they aren't from a fictional version of the real world.

 

[Spinluck]

My problem with people saying stuff like "Oh Link and Snake are Japanese" is that these characters have very clear eurocentric features.... (and in general most Japanese characters just dont resemble japanese people in their features, but rather white people)

It seems like a lazy excuse to say when people bring up diversity.

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Snake looks pretty white to me.

 

[battleborn27]

Which is why Sakurai needs to loosen up a bit on his thought process when it comes to character selection. The industry is taking its sweet time to improve, especially in Japan. So Sakurai should be willing to make a compromise every once-in-a-while to compensate.

Something I've noticed over the years is that Sakurai can be oddly stubborn about the weirdest things (Ex: Male Corrin as the default). Ridley does show that Sakurai can eventually cave, but that took a lot of begging from fans.

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Sakurai adding a POC to Smash isn't gonna change the industry lmao. It's the other way around, when the industry changes and starts having more representation (especially in lead roles), then games like Smash will start adding those characters.

I also don't get why people point to series such as Street Fighter for representation, when their POC and ethnic characters are embarrassing caricatures.

 

[Deleted member 11413]

My problem with people saying stuff like "Oh Link and Snake are Japanese" is that these characters have very clear eurocentric features.... (and in general most Japanese characters just dont resemble japanese people in their features, but rather white people)

It seems like a lazy excuse to say when people bring up diversity.

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Snake is not Japanese, he is literally from America. Who the fuck is claiming that he is Asian?
Link, on the other hand, is an anime-style character in a fantasy setting. There is an argument to be made that he's intended to be read as Asian by the Japanese audience and creators. A character having blonde hair does not make them white, there are literally tons of blonde anime characters that are Japanese (though in anime blonde hair is often used, along with other things, to indicate a white foreign background)

 

[Normal]

Yup, Marth, Chrom, Lucina, Corrin, Ike, and Roy should all be read as Asian. Same goes for Ryu (duh), DQ Hero, Joker, Mega-Man, etc. Characters like Terry are obviously intended to be white because their backstory has them coming from the US but otherwise if it's an anime design, you should assume they are Asian unless otherwise specified.

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Fire Emblem characters could be European.... You know they have all that knights, paladins, etc thing going on. I always assumed that.
The only exceptions that comes to mind are the Hoshidans (Japanese), Almyra (Middle East), and Lyn's nomadic tribe.

 

[BigBlue]

Snake is not Japanese, he is literally from America. Who the fuck is claiming that he is Asian?
Link, on the other hand, is an anime-style character in a fantasy setting. There is an argument to be made that he's intended to be read as Asian by the Japanese audience and creators. A character having blonde hair does not make them white, there are literally tons of blonde anime characters that are Japanese (though in anime blonde hair is often used, along with other things, to indicate a white foreign background)

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People were arguing that is a character is made in Japan by Japanese developers then he/she is Japanese

 

[Spinluck]

Sakurai adding a POC to Smash isn't gonna change the industry lmao. It's the other way around, when the industry changes and starts having more representation (especially in lead roles), then games like Smash will start adding those characters.

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This needs to be in all of those threads. Smash gets brought up for this regularly then when you point it out as the overwhelmingly majority of gaming you are excusing Japan and Sakurai.

I'm pretty much over it. Smash is part of the problem but it's not the solution. It's pretty clear cut to me that we need more PoC headlining games.

But let's use our magnifying glass to examine one piece of the puzzle.

 

[Deleted member 11413]

Snake looks pretty white to me.

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That's because he is obviously white, he is American in his own damn games.

 

[Deleted member 11413]

People were arguing that is a character is made in Japan by Japanese developers then he/she is Japanese

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That is not what the majority of people are arguing and you know it. Stop being disingenuous

 

[Mekanos]

Snake is not Japanese, he is literally from America. Who the fuck is claiming that he is Asian?
Link, on the other hand, is an anime-style character in a fantasy setting. There is an argument to be made that he's intended to be read as Asian by the Japanese audience and creators. A character having blonde hair does not make them white, there are literally tons of blonde anime characters that are Japanese (though in anime blonde hair is often used, along with other things, to indicate a white foreign background)

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Snake is described as half Japanese in Metal Gear 2's manual although I'd guess that's not what they're referring to. Vulcan Raven also implies this in MGS1.

 

[whoamiifnotwhoiam]

It's sad how much this reflects on about the gaming industry as a whole. Literally all iconic characters are mostly white, with no big diversity. Smash is really just picking up what the people want, in demand. But it's sad to see that there's no demand on different, POC characters.

 

[Spinluck]

That's because he is obviously white, he is American in his own damn games.

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Then why the fuck are people saying he's Japanese 😂.

We'll have people arguing the main guy in Death Stranding isn't white either huh. Lol.

 

[BigBlue]

That is not what the majority of people are arguing and you know it. Stop being disingenuous

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Huh? There were a couple people literally saying exactly that. That is what I was referring to. I have already commented on the other points in this thread (industry as a whole needs to change, not smash's fault)

 

[TDLink]

This topic has been discussed ad nauseam, but for reiteration:

• This game is made by a Japanese company, not an American one, so it's being created through that lens, and Japan is a very homogeneous country.
• As a result of that, most of the "white" characters could actually be seen as Asian as that is how they were created.
• And this is a gaming industry problem, as there are barely any that are non-Asian or non-White.
• (Without counting), something like half of the characters in the game aren't even human to begin with -- they're animals or objects or creatures. All of these aren't any particular race.
• And, of the "humans", many of them are from fictional fantasy worlds (Hyrule, The Mushroom Kingdom, etc.).
• Smash puts in main protagonists and antagonists before anyone else...
• They're never going to put in a third-string (or worse) character before the main ones, and now that they are all aboard the third party train instead of expanding the existing franchises, the chance of ever getting to those picks is slim to none.
• The exception to this is where there could easily be a clone/echo character. A few could work here (Impa, Doc Louis) -- but they also don't appear to be making more of these characters at the moment.
• Elma is the only actual main character that is a PoC that could end up in this game, and she's from the lowest selling game in her series, which isn't even the most recent one -- making her chances very slim.

 

[Lunchbox]

I do not find it problematic

 

[PancakeFlip]

Smash tends to go with main characters alot and it's rare to find a series with a person of colour as the main character that they want to add to smash

smash ends up being a reflection on industry as a whole which is why this happens

i have said this before but they should have added in Impa as an Echo for Sheik and used her Skyward Sword design

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They should have just rebranded Sheik as Impa and made Sheik a costume.

 

[SirNinja]

The problem's more with the industry than with the game, as the latter is essentially a celebration of the former. This thread pops up every few weeks or so and the answer/consensus always coalesces into "yeah, it's a problem...but who do they pick?", which turns into a reflection on how far the industry still has to go.

Urbosa would be an awesome start. Elma would be great too. More diverse protagonists in videogames going forward, however, would be ideal. And unfortunately that's not as easy a problem to fix as we think, in an industry that largely focuses on both stagnant cultural ideals and doubling-down on catering to a known, reliable pool of consumers.

 

[Mekanos]

These threads always go the same way, because there is this sacred rule passed down from generation to generation that states that only IP leads and piranha plants may become a part of the holy Smash roster, god given by the one, the only Sakurai (who works really hard by the way, guys!)

Most 'gamers' don't give a fuck about representation, and they have no qualms making it known. I say fuck them all.

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What do you propose to change this exactly?

None of us are really in a position to affect change for this roster. There's no ballot or anything like that.

 

[Niosai]

It's less an issue with Smash Bros. and more an issue with the industry. Smash Bros. pulls existing popular characters into the game. Smash Bros. doesn't make the characters, and arbitrarily pulling a person of color that not many people recognize to fill a slot would do more harm than good. It would seem like an empty gesture to tick a box.