Neiteio

Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,304
Genius developer Sakurai just stunned us all (again!) with his ridiculous attention to detail in a new character in Super Smash Bros Ultimate. With Steve, Sakurai has pretty much crafted (haaa) a game within a game.

I mean, in a dizzying whirlwind of info this morning, we learned about item durability and upgrades; the crafting table, its destructibility, and summoning it with Shield + B; the seven material types, their terrain-specific mining locations and spawn rates, the gauge that shows their ratio, the rate at which they're consumed, and the durability of the tools and blocks they create; the ways to use blocks and the limits on where and how they're placed, i.e. crumbling faster near blast zones; the track-laying minecart mechanic with redstone propulsion and ricochet and hostage-taking shenanigans; the elaborate TNT setups, with or without gunpowder-trail detonators; attacking with the sword while running or retreating or juggling people with the hatchet; the magma block clipping through soft platforms as a lingering hurt-box and the lava bucket delivering low-altitude launch trajectories; the anvil drop consuming iron, fishing rod tether traps, falling flintstone fire, realistic glider control -- and more!


It begs the question: What other franchises could be reinterpreted in Smash, such that the complexity of their systems and mechanics are faithfully captured (in spirit) while enriching the whole of Smash with newfound variety?

A Resident Evil character scavenging limited supplies on stage and managing inventory via an item box to capture the survival element?

A Tetris, Bubble Bobble or Puyo Puyo character somehow managing puzzle pieces in the fray of battle for dramatic chain reactions?

A Halo or Doom character somehow implementing elements of a first-person shooter in the context of a 2D fighter?

A Monster Hunter character where you commit to one of various weapons and must sharpen them?

A Devil May Cry character with straight-up style switching?

A Xenoblade Chronicles 2 character with the driver-blade duo dynamic of driver combos, blade combos, chain burst, etc?

A Dark Souls character that goes hollow every other stock, and that can maybe even accrue and reclaim souls to upgrade at bonfires?


How can Sakurai match the creativity of Steve's adaptation to Smash? I'm keen to hear your ideas.

And for those who missed it, the 45-minute presentation:

 
Last edited:

Deleted member 63122

User requested account closure
Banned
Jan 16, 2020
9,071
His fighting style and techniques are very unique for Smash. Makes me wonder who are the other 4?
 

Punchline

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,151
Dante will probably be the next most complicated fighter of they decide to incorporate his styles and weapon switches.
 
Jul 4, 2018
1,133
Telltale Games character where the match stops so you have to decide your next move via button prompt

Wii Fit Trainer will remember that
 
Last edited:

Iori Loco

Member
Nov 10, 2017
2,288
He's surely going to add a Hartstone avatar that uses the cards from their deck to create combos.
 
Oct 29, 2017
13,670
Makes you think how Captain Falcon would even play if it was introduced today. Because as it is originally, you would have to guess he comes from a racing title.
 

Weiss

User requested ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
64,265
I hope he doesn''t. I'm terrible with character gimmicks beyond "haha Wonderwing go brrr"
 
OP
OP
Neiteio

Neiteio

Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,304
Mod request: Can someone fix the typo in my title? It should say "complex." Typed this on my phone, lol.
 

Raigor

Member
May 14, 2020
15,242
Dante with all styles at all weapons from DMC 5

This is how can he top Steve
 

Giga Man

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
21,380
Whatever the next fighter is, just make it fast. I'm all for uniqueness, but surely there are characters they can make that are naturally fast. Joker is the only one and is still the strongest DLC fighter in the meta because of it. Ryu Hayabusa could be one. Base him on his NES incarnation for a bunch of retro callbacks similar to Mega Man and the Belmonts.
 

Platy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
27,950
Brazil
I can think of LOTS of chacters that can be complex, but i can't think of a single one what would realistic be in line for the DLC =P

MAYBE a Ring Fit Trainer that has powers based on how much ground she runs in the track (we alreayd knows smash tracks this sort of thing), favoring those wavedash persons that love to go back and forth and moves that require you to hold a certain position on the controller =P

Bub & Bob might have a cool "gem stacking" mechanic in your oponent as it makes more damage if you send a 4th gem of the same color

Advance Wars have potential for some very complex mechanic zooming about summoning diffent units that might have different powers against differnt type of characters

An Etrian Odyssey could be insanely complex ....specially if incorporate the "draw the map" stuff from some of the 3ds ones

Chrono might use a cool mechanic about mixing specials for more power ...but we are already in "no way he gets to be a dlc" area =P
 

NeonZ

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 28, 2017
9,411
I think a Monster Hunter rep where the most of the specials would actually involve inventory management (from drinking power up items, to setting up traps or sharpening weapons) with the weapon attacks limited to the standard attack button could be interesting and differentiate it from other swordsmen-like characters in the game. On top of that there could be some way to choose different movesets, but that could be too much for a single character (although if none of the specials use the weapons it could make things easier, maybe grabs could also be item based too if they go in this direction, so they also wouldn't change).
 

Lord Azrael

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,976
I'd rather he doesn't. Each new character is becoming increasingly more complex, to the point where you need an encyclopedia just to figure out what the fuck they do. The more characters get unique one off mechanics the more it hurts the pick up and play nature of the game, where you could pick anyone at random and learn them fairly quickly. I imagine a lot of more casual players aren't going to want or be able to remember a whole new set of mechanics per character.
 

cyba89

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,657
Phoenix Wright will feature a new interrogation mode that introduces unique dialogue for every character. You have to beat them with Objection! when you figure out contradictions in their statements.
 

mikeys_legendary

The Fallen
Sep 26, 2018
3,012
Shantae. Just put my girl in already. Give her a monkey form, an elephant form and a spider form, and when she's just in her regular humanoid form give her some of the items from Half Genie Hero.
 

Gay Bowser

Member
Oct 30, 2017
17,782
I'd rather he doesn't. Each new character is becoming increasingly more complex, to the point where you need an encyclopedia just to figure out what the fuck they do. The more characters get unique one off mechanics the more it hurts the pick up and play nature of the game, where you could pick anyone at random and learn them fairly quickly. I imagine a lot of more casual players aren't going to want or be able to remember a whole new set of mechanics per character.

Honestly, I agree with this. I love that Sakurai & Co. went all out on Steve/Alex, but those sorts of characters should definitely be the exception, not the rule.

I can envision a lot of (perhaps younger) players wanting to just mess around with Steve and maybe struggling a bit with the learning curve.
 

ggdeku

Member
Oct 26, 2017
758
Steve is maybe as complex as a Rivals of Aether character. Its pretty good design for Smash, but at this point other platform fighters have left Smash in the dust in terms of moveset design.
 

Okabe

Is Sometimes A Good Bean
Member
Aug 24, 2018
20,175
It would have to be Dante


Nobody else has that kind of moveset.


It has to be


(Note : Dante is actually coming)
 

2shd

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,655
Minecraft is a unique one and I don't think they need to keep making super complex characters. They need to balance it out with some more basic ones not try to top this. Hopefully they have a more basic action character like Ryu Hayabusa next, even if they have a lot of moves.
 

Spring-Loaded

Member
Oct 27, 2017
19,904
I'd rather he doesn't. Each new character is becoming increasingly more complex, to the point where you need an encyclopedia just to figure out what the fuck they do. The more characters get unique one off mechanics the more it hurts the pick up and play nature of the game, where you could pick anyone at random and learn them fairly quickly. I imagine a lot of more casual players aren't going to want or be able to remember a whole new set of mechanics per character.
The way they're doing it is better. If newcomers and guest characters are really basic without mechanics brought into Smash from their own games, then they're less interesting to play against. I personally had no interest in Terry or Steve's mere inclusion, but their unique mechanics made/make their inclusion exciting to me.

Can't imagine fans of the newcomers would dislike aspects of the characters' series being represented in gameplay. Stuff like Villager pocketing stuff and Bayonetta's Witch Time are brilliant.
 

Unknownlight

One Winged Slayer
Member
Nov 2, 2017
10,669
I'd rather he doesn't. Each new character is becoming increasingly more complex, to the point where you need an encyclopedia just to figure out what the fuck they do. The more characters get unique one off mechanics the more it hurts the pick up and play nature of the game, where you could pick anyone at random and learn them fairly quickly. I imagine a lot of more casual players aren't going to want or be able to remember a whole new set of mechanics per character.

I like the way they've done it. Default characters are generally pretty straightforward, while DLC characters (which you have to go out of your way to specifically buy) can introduce a whole host of shenanigans.
 

Madao

Avalanche's One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,778
Panama
more than seeing what the last 4 potential newcomers bring, i'd like to see how much would old vets gain from being redesigned with this philosophy in mind. several old characters have really basic moves despite coming from games that have a lot of potential options for them (looking at most Zelda characters mainly)
 

Red

Member
Oct 26, 2017
11,860
I'd rather he doesn't. Each new character is becoming increasingly more complex, to the point where you need an encyclopedia just to figure out what the fuck they do. The more characters get unique one off mechanics the more it hurts the pick up and play nature of the game, where you could pick anyone at random and learn them fairly quickly. I imagine a lot of more casual players aren't going to want or be able to remember a whole new set of mechanics per character.
I think it's a little weird that Smash has got so complicated. I was watching the vid early and it just... kept going. Like, you have to watch an hour-long tutorial to understand how to play as this character? It feels like too much.

But it doesn't seem to affect Smash's approachability or popularity. People are on board.
 

Lord Azrael

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,976
I like the way they've done it. Default characters are generally pretty straightforward, while DLC characters (which you have to go out of your way to specifically buy) can introduce a whole host of shenanigans.
It's less because of the DLC specifically and more just that newer characters become more and more complex with time. The newcomers in Smash 4 were more complex than the characters that came before them too.
 

ItsOKAY

Member
Jan 26, 2018
1,411
Frankfurt, Germany
Everything is sooo incredible detailed with so much love for quality!
Besides the fighting..also details like sleeping in the bed and the design of Kirby..incredible!
Than every stage needed to be redone...the list goes on and on and on with not how much they put into it, but just how cared and how high the quality is! Insane!
 

NeonZ

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 28, 2017
9,411
It's less because of the DLC specifically and more just that newer characters become more and more complex with time. The newcomers in Smash 4 were more complex than the characters that came before them too.
Ultimate's base game newcomers were generally simpler than 4's though, so the progression isn't really that consistent. And even among the Ultimate DLC characters Byleth basically didn't have unique mechanics, with his most unique element being mostly visual (using different weapons for different attacks).
 

Jaded Alyx

Member
Oct 25, 2017
35,701
A No More Heroes character where you switch between different beam katana which each have different move sets. Finishing moves that are directional QTE prompts. And of course, charging the beam katana.


😔
 

Iori Loco

Member
Nov 10, 2017
2,288
Is Dante heavily rumored or confirmed by insiders?

I think he appeared in some supposed leak alongside Banjo & Kazooie and Steve, but that was for the last season of DLC. Of course, it's very possible that a couple or even all the characters for season pass 2 were in planning stages even before the development of season 1, so some people could easily cling to those old "leaks" as truth even if they were a dud last time.
 

Mr. Virus

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,694
By having a big nap and a cheeky wee holiday for once in his life.

I'd be up for some MH rep though.
 

Gotchaforce

Member
Oct 31, 2017
5,732
Let Master Chief dual wield. Hyabusa with all his modern NG moves and ninpo. Dante of course. Monster Hunter with an enormous amount of weapons along with sharpening and cooking.
 

Woylie

Member
May 9, 2018
1,849
I have mixed feelings about Steve after the presentation - like, I'm actually more interested in playing as him now seeing how unique and weird his moveset is, but during the whole presentation I just kept thinking, "will kids really understand all of this?"

I guess Minecraft is old enough now that many of the people who grew up with it are now teens and adults, so maybe it's less of an issue. But Steve seems way too complex for a character who I would think would be a big draw for younger players. Also, maybe it's less complex in actual gameplay instead of a 45-minute long deep dive breakdown of his moveset. It'll be interesting to see how he goes over when people get their hands on him
 
OP
OP
Neiteio

Neiteio

Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,304
I think he appeared in some supposed leak alongside Banjo & Kazooie and Steve, but that was for the last season of DLC. Of course, it's very possible that a couple or even all the characters for season pass 2 were in planning stages even before the development of season 1, so some people could easily cling to those old "leaks" as truth even if they were a dud last time.
I recall someone sharing a tweet from one of the Mojang founders that said Nintendo began negotiating for Steve in Smash five years ago
 

Bit_Reactor

Banned
Apr 9, 2019
4,413
I have mixed feelings about Steve after the presentation - like, I'm actually more interested in playing as him now seeing how unique and weird his moveset is, but during the whole presentation I just kept thinking, "will kids really understand all of this?"

I guess Minecraft is old enough now that many of the people who grew up with it are now teens and adults, so maybe it's less of an issue. But Steve seems way too complex for a character who I would think would be a big draw for younger players. Also, maybe it's less complex in actual gameplay instead of a 45-minute long deep dive breakdown of his moveset. It'll be interesting to see how he goes over when people get their hands on him
I've seen kids and adults a like doing extremely complicated engineering and programming activities in minecraft using the red stones, I think some up b and down b and some resource management translates well into the common loop minecraft players will already be familiar with personally.
 

Cantaim

Member
Oct 25, 2017
33,560
The Stussining
I am absolutely stunned at the amount of stuff Steve got. He is easily the most interesting dlc character for me.

For people complaining about feature creep for dlc characters. it isn't that bad it's just they stand out more because they are so unique. Piranha Plant, Banjo, Byleth, Joker, and Hero are all easy to understand characters. It's really the fighting game characters (Terry, Ryu, Ken, and Min Min) and Steve that are the most complex in terms of pulling of their base moves.