Ah yes the famously self aware studio Platinum Games
It's cool guys Bayonetta is only pretending to be oversexualised, it's ironic you see
Fuck.
I've always been a Bayo apologist, but when you're right you're right.
Ah yes the famously self aware studio Platinum Games
It's cool guys Bayonetta is only pretending to be oversexualised, it's ironic you see
Just say both are horrible at it but at least one of the two studios isn't actively hurting humans (from what we know). Makes way more sense than trying to rationalize why you take offense with the content style of one game but not the other when there isn't any sense in that to be found. Both games are terrible when it comes to sexualization. Like, bottom of the barrel on that front.I guess I can't conveniently compartmentalize as well as you. I'd say knowing about studio culture helps inform and add context to their output.
I grew up playing games and reading comics, and generally just digesting American culture. Oversexualization is a problem everywhere, even still today and in potentially more directly damaging ways (social media).
I won't deny oversexualization in Platinum's titles, and while being couched in camp (Bayonetta, Madworld, etc) doesn't make it okay, it does make a distinction with games like Nikke or (probably) Stellar Blade. NieR Automata plays it straighter and usually gets more (deserved) criticism for it but that was also a co-developed contract game.
As far as I'm concerned, if you defend and support a studio that enables harassment then yeah, that's a problem.
The only rationale for even injecting Platinum in this thread is trying to defend this game and studio. It's quite literally "Platinum Too".
The only rationale for even injecting Platinum in this thread is trying to defend this game and studio. It's quite literally "Platinum Too".
If you mean getting to the core is trying to twist my words its not working..... No one is defending Shift Up, Stellar Blade, or anything. It doesn't matter how many times you hear it you ignore it to continue what you are doing. The game is sexualized, like Bayonetta, no one is denying any of the things the studio has done either. Yet people can't seem to admit that Bayonetta's sexualization is at least just as bad, the game is literally another studio's version. If you want to complain about one at least have the decency to acknowledge the other.
This thread is about some sort of Sony/Shift Up publishing partnership. This thread isn't even about discussion of how terrible a company Shift Up is (though I have no problem with it being brought up in every thread with their name on it anyway). Following the logic in your post we should just exclusively be talking about the partnership and what it could mean going forward games wise.They may not be "defending" it, but between "hey good for them" posts, the comparisons to Platinum, and the arguments over whether second party actually means anything, many people in this thread sure are conveniently obfuscating discussion about the fact that this misogynistic company has taken it a step further than most in how it treats any employees who have the audacity to espouse feminist thought. And it's going to continue to happen any time this game comes up I imagine.
We could easily have a thread about any potential double standards people have with regards to Bayonetta (and there's of course a serious discussion to be had about this), and move that discussion there so that this thread about Shift Up can be about Shift Up.
They may not be "defending" it, but between "hey good for them" posts, the comparisons to Platinum, and the arguments over whether second party actually means anything, many people in this thread sure are conveniently obfuscating discussion about the fact that this misogynistic company has taken it a step further than most in how it treats any employees who have the audacity to espouse feminist thought. And it's going to continue to happen any time this game comes up I imagine.
We could easily have a thread about any potential double standards people have with regards to Bayonetta (and there's of course a serious discussion to be had about this), and move that discussion there so that this thread about Shift Up can be about Shift Up.
This thread is about some sort of Sony/Shift Up publishing partnership.
At least in my case Im very clear to say they BOTH do it and one doesnt justify the other, they are both very problematic in sexualization and objectify women.
Both are objectionable yes. But this isn't a Bayonetta thread and the only reason it (and Platinum) are being invoked is pretty obvious.Just say both are horrible at it but at least one of the two studios isn't actively hurting humans (from what we know). Makes way more sense than trying to rationalize why you take offense with the content style of one game but not the other when there isn't any sense in that to be found. Both games are terrible when it comes to sexualization. Like, bottom of the barrel on that front.
The comparison was only drawn to defend SB and Shift Up. Why are we focusing on Platinum exactly, maybe that's the question you should be asking yourself?Not sure exactly when it was brought up but its completely valid as Stellar Blade is literally another take on Bayonetta from genre to main character design. The inspiration could not be any closer. No one is forcing you to profusely defend Platinum and say "But we are not focusing on them !", thats your own doing. But you should know all people are hearing is the defense of one game's sexualization while denouncing another game's.
People in this thread brought up the content shown in this game as if it was some unique affront to our eyes. People brought up the game's obvious influences in response. Pretty natural course of conversation. Is the studio's first AAA game and its influences not a relevant discussion topic when users are saying the AAA game that led to the partnership "looks like a Bayo ripoff"?So we should examine exactly who Sony has decided to partner with. If you can't see why that's more relevant to the topic at hand than fucking Bayonetta, we probably don't have anything further to discuss.
You can also "self-destruct", except all it does is destroy her skirt.But platinum let you do this
so i dont think they were unconfortable of Yoshida's designs at all lmao.
This is a thread about their deal with Sony and now being "2nd Party". The problems with the studio were rightfully brought up and people are discussing it, but that doesn't mean people who are also discussing the actual topic of the thread are doing so to obfuscate the other discussion. It's honestly ridiculous to try and paint everyone who isn't strictly talking about the sexualization of the game and the misogynistic problems of the studio as some sort of defender of this game/studio.They may not be "defending" it, but between "hey good for them" posts, the comparisons to Platinum, and the arguments over whether second party actually means anything, many people in this thread sure are conveniently obfuscating discussion about the fact that this misogynistic company has taken it a step further than most in how it treats any employees who have the audacity to espouse feminist thought. And it's going to continue to happen any time this game comes up I imagine.
We could easily have a thread about any potential double standards people have with regards to Bayonetta (and there's of course a serious discussion to be had about this), and move that discussion there so that this thread about Shift Up can be about Shift Up.
People in this thread brought up the content shown in this game as if it was some unique affront to our eyes. People brought up the game's obvious influences in response. Pretty natural course of conversation. Is the studio's first AAA game and its influences not a relevant discussion topic when users are saying the AAA game that led to the partnership "looks like a Bayo ripoff"?
Lol the comparison was drawn because someone said this shit looks like a Bayonetta ripoff, not to defend the studio. A different user said "The sexualization would make Bayonetta blush," which I responded to by saying that the content in these games on that front is extremely similar. It is natural circumstance to bring up Bayonetta and Nier when this game shows up because it looks like fuckin Bayonetta and Nier. It isn't complicated.Both are objectionable yes. But this isn't a Bayonetta thread and the only reason it (and Platinum) are being invoked is pretty obvious.
The comparison was only drawn to defend SB and Shift Up. Why are we focusing on Platinum exactly, maybe that's the question you should be asking yourself?
And profusely defending Platinum? I posted some Nikke screens, where exactly am I profusely defending Platinum's overt sexualization of female characters? Was it when I said... oversexualization is an issue with their games too?
All I hear here is "let's not actually talk about Sony's deal with a toxic studio".
The comparison was only drawn to defend SB and Shift Up. Why are we focusing on Platinum exactly, maybe that's the question you should be asking yourself?
And profusely defending Platinum? I posted some Nikke screens, where exactly am I profusely defending Platinum's overt sexualization of female characters? Was it when I said... oversexualization is an issue with their games too?
All I hear here is "let's not actually talk about Sony's deal with a toxic studio".
Isn't it really strange then that the CMA in May THIS YEAR described first, second and third party developers in their Microsoft/Activision Final Report:But...it hasn't had widespread usage since! Finding one quote from 2015 from Phil Spencer doesn't change the fact that you'd be hard-pressed to come up with any serious industry talk about the concept before or after, and I already pointed out that Sony themselves don't use the term with any consistency with what they're actually doing with those projects, which default to their third party relations team in terms of managing those projects.
They bringing Nikke to PS5 now?
That would be interesting when mom walks in the door to see what you're playing.
Ah, ok. I was in Tokyo recently, they sell a ton of merch from that game all over Akihabara. That's how I even know about it - I don't really play mobile games.
At no point did I ever say it was never used. All I've said is that it isn't in widespread use, which your now three examples is doing nothing to contradict.Isn't it really strange then that the CMA in May THIS YEAR described first, second and third party developers in their Microsoft/Activision Final Report:
And the EU did the same in theirs:
Yeh, it isn't used any more.... /s
I mean it's one thing if someone derails a topic specifically about the accusations. But this is a general topic about Shift Up and thier partnership agreement.They may not be "defending" it, but between "hey good for them" posts, the comparisons to Platinum, and the arguments over whether second party actually means anything, many people in this thread sure are conveniently obfuscating discussion about the fact that this misogynistic company has taken it a step further than most in how it treats any employees who have the audacity to espouse feminist thought. And it's going to continue to happen any time this game comes up I imagine.
We could easily have a thread about any potential double standards people have with regards to Bayonetta (and there's of course a serious discussion to be had about this), and move that discussion there so that this thread about Shift Up can be about Shift Up.
Heavily agree I just wish it wasn't with this particular studio. I really want to see more AAA titles from parts of the world we aren't used to seeing them from but it's hard to applaud this when it's THIS studio.Though as for the actual topic on hand. I'm glad to see Sony making inroads to other parts of the world when it comes to game development, even if South Korea already has a major PC scene there. Hopefully they can work with more in the future. Hell, maybe they can help draw attention to and eventually fix Shift Up's toxic work environment.
Oh I get it, that's why I'm of the admittedly hopeful stance that maybe Sony could introduce some positivity and fixes to their studio. It's a long shot, but who knows? I'd rather have an optimistic outlook on it.Heavily agree I just wish it wasn't with this particular studio. I really want to see more AAA titles from parts of the world we aren't used to seeing them from but it's hard to applaud this when it's THIS studio.
This post shows exactly why second party is such a useless term. Sony is not gonna fix this studio because they are not affiliated with Sony in any way beyond them publishing this game exclusively on their system. Shift Up is still a fully separate third party studio that is and will be operating on their own.Oh I get it, that's why I'm of the admittedly hopeful stance that maybe Sony could introduce some positivity and fixes to their studio. It's a long shot, but who knows? I'd rather have an optimistic outlook on it.
Glad you ignored the part in my post where i specifically mentioned that I was hopeful, and that it was an optimistic outlook. Obviously it's just a working partnership, but you never know where that could develop.This post shows exactly why second party is such a useless term. Sony is not gonna fix this studio because they are not affiliated with Sony in any way beyond them publishing this game exclusively on their system. Shift Up is still a fully separate third party studio that is and will be operating on their own.
That's like being hopeful that Sony can improve Atlus. They are completely separate entities.Glad you ignored the part in my post where i specifically mentioned that I was hopeful, and that it was an optimistic outlook. Obviously it's just a working partnership, but you never know where that could develop.
It never did anything wrong. It's just an obsolete term that doesn't really apply to any developer in this day and age, so any push to having it around isn't particularly useful or even correct.At this point it's weirdly obvious that the term "2nd party" is under debate only because a vocal contingent of the gaming community just…doesn't like it? doesn't want it around?
what did this phrase ever do wrong to inspire such passions?
Endless online debates about how "second party games don't count", for one. Literally years and years of stupid console wars stuff like that back in the day. It was just another cudgel for fanboys to weild against each other and added absolutely nothing of value for us adults who can understand whether the studio is internal or not and who is publishing. There is effectively zero upside to the term "second party", imo. Only downsides.At this point it's weirdly obvious that the term "2nd party" is under debate only because a vocal contingent of the gaming community just…doesn't like it? doesn't want it around?
what did this phrase ever do wrong to inspire such passions?
To me the difference is that:
1) Bayonetta is a very active protagonist and always acts like she's in control of the situation. She dresses and acts that way because she can and she likes doing it. In contrast, based on the trailers, Stellar Blade protagonist comes across as very passive and submissive.
2) Bayonetta is much campier and goofier and prioritizes
To me the difference is that:
1) Bayonetta is a very active protagonist and always acts like she's in control of the situation. She dresses and acts that way because she can and she likes doing it. In contrast, based on the trailers, Stellar Blade protagonist comes across as very passive and submissive.
2) Bayonetta is much campier and goofier and prioritizes making the player have fun or feel cool or stylish. So the cartoonish sexualization doesn't feel as out of place tonally and a lot of it feels like a joke you can laugh off. Stellar Blade, again based on the trailers, seems to be trying to seem more serious and dramatic which makes its cartoonish sexualization feel weird and off-putting.
This isn't to say that Bayonetta isn't problematic or above criticism but there are things that it has going for it that I don't see in Stellar Blade.
making
To me the difference is that:
1) Bayonetta is a very active protagonist and always acts like she's in control of the situation. She dresses and acts that way because she can and she likes doing it. In contrast, based on the trailers, Stellar Blade protagonist comes across as very passive and submissive.
2) Bayonetta is much campier and goofier and prioritizes making the player have fun or feel cool or stylish. So the cartoonish sexualization doesn't feel as out of place tonally and a lot of it feels like a joke you can laugh off. Stellar Blade, again based on the trailers, seems to be trying to seem more serious and dramatic which makes its cartoonish sexualization feel weird and off-putting.
This isn't to say that Bayonetta isn't problematic or above criticism but there are things that it has going for it that I don't see in Stellar Blade.
the player have fun or feel cool or stylish. So the cartoonish sexualization doesn't feel as out of place tonally and a lot of it feels like a joke you can laugh off. Stellar Blade, again based on the trailers, seems to be trying to seem more serious and dramatic which makes its cartoonish sexualization feel weird and off-putting.
This isn't to say that Bayonetta isn't problematic or above criticism but there are things that it has going for it that I don't see in Stellar Blade.
To me the difference is that:
1) Bayonetta is a very active protagonist and always acts like she's in control of the situation. She dresses and acts that way because she can and she likes doing it. In contrast, based on the trailers, Stellar Blade protagonist comes across as very passive and submissive.
2) Bayonetta is much campier and goofier and prioritizes making the player have fun or feel cool or stylish. So the cartoonish sexualization doesn't feel as out of place tonally and a lot of it feels like a joke you can laugh off. Stellar Blade, again based on the trailers, seems to be trying to seem more serious and dramatic which makes its cartoonish sexualization feel weird and off-putting.
This isn't to say that Bayonetta isn't problematic or above criticism but there are things that it has going for it that I don't see in Stellar Blade.
To me the difference is that:
1) Bayonetta is a very active protagonist and always acts like she's in control of the situation. She dresses and acts that way because she can and she likes doing it. In contrast, based on the trailers, Stellar Blade protagonist comes across as very passive and submissive.
2) Bayonetta is much campier and goofier and prioritizes making the player have fun or feel cool or stylish. So the cartoonish sexualization doesn't feel as out of place tonally and a lot of it feels like a joke you can laugh off. Stellar Blade, again based on the trailers, seems to be trying to seem more serious and dramatic which makes its cartoonish sexualization feel weird and off-putting.
This isn't to say that Bayonetta isn't problematic or above criticism but there are things that it has going for it that I don't see in Stellar Blade.
To me the difference is that:
1) Bayonetta is a very active protagonist and always acts like she's in control of the situation. She dresses and acts that way because she can and she likes doing it. In contrast, based on the trailers, Stellar Blade protagonist comes across as very passive and submissive.
2) Bayonetta is much campier and goofier and prioritizes making the player have fun or feel cool or stylish. So the cartoonish sexualization doesn't feel as out of place tonally and a lot of it feels like a joke you can laugh off. Stellar Blade, again based on the trailers, seems to be trying to seem more serious and dramatic which makes its cartoonish sexualization feel weird and off-putting.
This isn't to say that Bayonetta isn't problematic or above criticism but there are things that it has going for it that I don't see in Stellar Blade.
I think "but Platinum" is probably the more transparent and embarrassing defense itt.
How many feminists has Platinum fired and harassed btw?
I think "but Platinum" is probably the more transparent and embarrassing defense itt.
How many feminists has Platinum fired and harassed btw?
Let's get to the core of what's actually happening here, people are drawing a false equivalency to defend a sexist studio.
No what's actually happening is your defending a studio because you want the moral high ground to play their games and you don't actually care about oversexualisation of women in games at all.
Otherwise you wouldn't come to insane conclusion that "the content in Platinum and Nikke games is no different" = "well actually you support women getting harassed"
Not a studio i would want to associate myself with if i was Sony.Her ass is now part of Sony's catalogue.
What a wonderful achievement. /s
Embarrassing to associate yourself with a studio like this.
Definitely a thread of all timelove how absolutely unhinged the latter half of this thread became