Ah yes the famously self aware studio Platinum Games
It's cool guys Bayonetta is only pretending to be oversexualised, it's ironic you see
Fuck.
I've always been a Bayo apologist, but when you're right you're right.
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Stellar Blade developer Shift Up is now a Sony 2nd party studio
- Thread starter Stef
- Start date
- Sony
Fuck.
I've always been a Bayo apologist, but when you're right you're right.
Just say both are horrible at it but at least one of the two studios isn't actively hurting humans (from what we know). Makes way more sense than trying to rationalize why you take offense with the content style of one game but not the other when there isn't any sense in that to be found. Both games are terrible when it comes to sexualization. Like, bottom of the barrel on that front.
Stellar Blade is quite literally influenced directly by one (arguably two) of Platinum's own titles. That is exactly why Platinum gets brought up. Because this looks like a Platinum game lol. The first thing people said when this game was revealed was that it was a Nier knockoff. It is impossible for anyone familiar with Platinum to not think of them when they see this game -- as long as that person is acting in good faith, anyway.
Not sure exactly when it was brought up but its completely valid as Stellar Blade is literally another take on Bayonetta from genre to main character design. The inspiration could not be any closer. No one is forcing you to profusely defend Platinum and say "But we are not focusing on them !", thats your own doing. But you should know all people are hearing is the defense of one game's sexualization while denouncing another game's.
They may not be "defending" it, but between "hey good for them" posts, the comparisons to Platinum, and the arguments over whether second party actually means anything, many people in this thread sure are conveniently obfuscating discussion about the fact that this misogynistic company has taken it a step further than most in how it treats any employees who have the audacity to espouse feminist thought. And it's going to continue to happen any time this game comes up I imagine.
We could easily have a thread about any potential double standards people have with regards to Bayonetta (and there's of course a serious discussion to be had about this), and move that discussion there so that this thread about Shift Up can be about Shift Up.
This thread is about some sort of Sony/Shift Up publishing partnership. This thread isn't even about discussion of how terrible a company Shift Up is (though I have no problem with it being brought up in every thread with their name on it anyway). Following the logic in your post we should just exclusively be talking about the partnership and what it could mean going forward games wise.
In this case its going to be extremely hard to ever remove Bayonetta from Stellar Blade is the inspiration it draws from it is super strong. Its not like people are saying "You guys are acting like this is the first sexualized character ever!" and bringing up a random game with an objectified playable woman, the games look very close especially when it comes to the sexualized main character.
At least in my case Im very clear to say they BOTH do it and one doesnt justify the other, they are both very problematic in sexualization and objectify women.
So we should examine exactly who Sony has decided to partner with. If you can't see why that's more relevant to the topic at hand than fucking Bayonetta, we probably don't have anything further to discuss.
Yeah I agree and so should anybody with an ounce of critical thinking, I'd think. But this is what I'm talking about when I say it's a discussion that obfuscates what people should really be taking away from this thread. We shouldn't be focusing on what this dev and another dev both do badly as much as what this particular dev, that Sony has chosen to partner with, a partnership we are going to see manifest more strongly as Stellar Blade inches towards release, is doing that is particularly egregious.
Both are objectionable yes. But this isn't a Bayonetta thread and the only reason it (and Platinum) are being invoked is pretty obvious.
The comparison was only drawn to defend SB and Shift Up. Why are we focusing on Platinum exactly, maybe that's the question you should be asking yourself?
And profusely defending Platinum? I posted some Nikke screens, where exactly am I profusely defending Platinum's overt sexualization of female characters? Was it when I said... oversexualization is an issue with their games too?
All I hear here is "let's not actually talk about Sony's deal with a toxic studio".
People in this thread brought up the content shown in this game as if it was some unique affront to our eyes. People brought up the game's obvious influences in response. Pretty natural course of conversation. Is the studio's first AAA game and its influences not a relevant discussion topic when users are saying the AAA game that led to the partnership "looks like a Bayo ripoff"?
You can also "self-destruct", except all it does is destroy her skirt.But platinum let you do this
so i dont think they were unconfortable of Yoshida's designs at all lmao.
This is a thread about their deal with Sony and now being "2nd Party". The problems with the studio were rightfully brought up and people are discussing it, but that doesn't mean people who are also discussing the actual topic of the thread are doing so to obfuscate the other discussion. It's honestly ridiculous to try and paint everyone who isn't strictly talking about the sexualization of the game and the misogynistic problems of the studio as some sort of defender of this game/studio.
I disagree with you and will continue to disagree with you. What's happening in this thread disgusts me, frankly. But I can't stop it, so talk about whatever you want, I guess.
Lol the comparison was drawn because someone said this shit looks like a Bayonetta ripoff, not to defend the studio. A different user said "The sexualization would make Bayonetta blush," which I responded to by saying that the content in these games on that front is extremely similar. It is natural circumstance to bring up Bayonetta and Nier when this game shows up because it looks like fuckin Bayonetta and Nier. It isn't complicated.
Later on, someone was puzzled about why Sony would partner with a studio making a game that looks like this. Someone replied to that bringing up "because Nier Automata exploded in popularity." Which of these was brought up in defense of this game's content? These are natural lines of conversation brought about by this game's obvious influences. Unless you imagine that anyone drawing the conclusion that Stellar Blade is obviously influenced by Nier/Bayo is doing so in order to defend Shift Up then idk how you arrived at the conclusion that people are invoking it in that way.
But no one is defending Stellar Blade and Shift Up. I mean, look at how close Stellar Blade and Bayonetta are and then its easy to see why it would come up in a thread like this, especially in the discussion of sexualization.
I honestly did not see you admitting that Platinum a guilty of sexualization, but its good to hear you say that. And we are all discussing the Bayonetta and Stellar Blade male gaze objectification and the Shift Up controversy, but any heat Platinum is getting in this discussion for Bayonetta's sexualization is entirely relevant as it is very much what Stellar Blade is based on.
Isn't it really strange then that the CMA in May THIS YEAR described first, second and third party developers in their Microsoft/Activision Final Report:
And the EU did the same in theirs:
Yeh, it isn't used any more.... /s
Ah, ok. I was in Tokyo recently, they sell a ton of merch from that game all over Akihabara. That's how I even know about it - I don't really play mobile games.
It's pretty popular - the gacha thread is like 90% that game since it's a bit controversial. It's basically a cover shooting gallery game (and a fun one) but in skimpy anime costumes. Think: lots of "gun recoil" on jiggling bodies. Yeah.
At no point did I ever say it was never used. All I've said is that it isn't in widespread use, which your now three examples is doing nothing to contradict.Isn't it really strange then that the CMA in May THIS YEAR described first, second and third party developers in their Microsoft/Activision Final Report:
And the EU did the same in theirs:
Yeh, it isn't used any more.... /s
The problem ultimately is that there really aren't any situations where a second party developer really exists anymore like it did with Rare, or with the shorter relationships that you saw with Silicon Knights, Factor 5 or Left Field Productions, due to developers being smart enough to realize that it's not good business to hitch your wagon up to one specific company with how flexible the market has gotten that you no longer need to enter into long-term arrangements that may bite you in the ass for various reasons. Even Shift Up here has had two mobile titles, including one released just over a year ago that has seemingly had a good following, and they have a significant investment from Tencent that puts them in a position that they're not needing work from Sony to sustain themselves on other projects for Sony, which was a pretty key element to why those second party relationships existed all those years ago. Hence, why the term has become a colloquialism, as there's no key developer out there that fits that bill any longer.
The whole second party and bayonetta stuff in here is…interesting.
Though as for the actual topic on hand. I'm glad to see Sony making inroads to other parts of the world when it comes to game development, even if South Korea already has a major PC scene there. Hopefully they can work with more in the future. Hell, maybe they can help draw attention to and eventually fix Shift Up's toxic work environment.
Though as for the actual topic on hand. I'm glad to see Sony making inroads to other parts of the world when it comes to game development, even if South Korea already has a major PC scene there. Hopefully they can work with more in the future. Hell, maybe they can help draw attention to and eventually fix Shift Up's toxic work environment.
I mean it's one thing if someone derails a topic specifically about the accusations. But this is a general topic about Shift Up and thier partnership agreement.
Heavily agree I just wish it wasn't with this particular studio. I really want to see more AAA titles from parts of the world we aren't used to seeing them from but it's hard to applaud this when it's THIS studio.
Oh I get it, that's why I'm of the admittedly hopeful stance that maybe Sony could introduce some positivity and fixes to their studio. It's a long shot, but who knows? I'd rather have an optimistic outlook on it.
This post shows exactly why second party is such a useless term. Sony is not gonna fix this studio because they are not affiliated with Sony in any way beyond them publishing this game exclusively on their system. Shift Up is still a fully separate third party studio that is and will be operating on their own.
Glad you ignored the part in my post where i specifically mentioned that I was hopeful, and that it was an optimistic outlook. Obviously it's just a working partnership, but you never know where that could develop.
That's like being hopeful that Sony can improve Atlus. They are completely separate entities.
And I know you weren't saying that would happen, but my point was that even the sentiment is unfounded and is just because of the way the second party is framed.
Oh wow this is great news. Such a wonderful looking game. It's bringing that DOA/Ninja Gaiden/ Bayonetta feeling back. I wonder if there will be DLC costumes. If it comes out on PC the mods will be dope.
At this point it's weirdly obvious that the term "2nd party" is under debate only because a vocal contingent of the gaming community just…doesn't like it? doesn't want it around?
what did this phrase ever do wrong to inspire such passions?
what did this phrase ever do wrong to inspire such passions?
It never did anything wrong. It's just an obsolete term that doesn't really apply to any developer in this day and age, so any push to having it around isn't particularly useful or even correct.
Imagine having TLOU2 and Stellar Blade side by side in a "Playstation Exclusive" poster or trailer. Such a huge contrast.
Endless online debates about how "second party games don't count", for one. Literally years and years of stupid console wars stuff like that back in the day. It was just another cudgel for fanboys to weild against each other and added absolutely nothing of value for us adults who can understand whether the studio is internal or not and who is publishing. There is effectively zero upside to the term "second party", imo. Only downsides.
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User banned (permanent): troll account
1.) Ok I have never understood this argument, somehow Bayonetta's sexualization gets a pass, because Bayonetta is "campier" and Bayonetta is somehow more active and in control over her sexuality compared to Eve? So basically Bayonetta's sexualization is less egregious compared to Stellar Blade, because Bayonetta is more "self aware" and the game doesn't take itself to seriously, so that somehow excuses the blatant sexualization in your eyes? Because Bayonetta somehow "owns" her sexuality and flaunts it proudly, and uses her provocativeness in combat to distract her enemy's, somehow she's more in "control" of her sexuality?
2.) What makes you think Eve from Stellar Blade has any less "control" over her sexuality, or dresses the way she does because she wants to? Just because Eve isn't as bombastic or as over the top as Bayonetta, doesn't mean she isn't in control of the situation. Does Eve need to be as over the top, cheeky, comedic and crazy to be independent, and in control of her actions?
Of course Eve isn't as jokey, silly, sensual or as cheeky as Bayonetta, she's an android who's been sent out on a very important mission to reclaim Earth for humanity. And expel the NA:tives, a deadly race of creatures who has decimated the human race, and who has sent human fleeing to a colony in outer space. Her mission is VERY serious and of the utmost importance; of course she wouldn't be cracking jokes and playing around, Eve is very determined to her mission and she's going up against so powerfu advseries
We don't even know the full story of what happened, we only got her side of the story, she could be grossly misrepresenting what happened… Plus she wore a t-shirt in reference to a radical feminist group known as; "Megalia." A radical Korean feminist website that ousted gay men, posted pictures of men's mutilated genitals, had misandrist slang for Korean men's penis sizes etc. It was a really toxic feminist site, no wonder Shift Up didn't want to have a person who wore a shirt in support of such terrible group! That'd be like me, wearing a shirt to work in support of a bigoted, racist antisemitic website or something… Do you want your company (even even if it's just one of your employees), should be associated with that?
How does saying "there is no difference between the sexualozation in Bayonetta and the sexualization in Stellar Blade" make you in support of women being harassed? Huh? What's the correlation there?…
Why would I care about women in games being "oversexualized?" A video game character by definition is an object, your basically telling us to not "objectify" and object.
Bayonetta and 2B aren't real people, they aren't able to give you their consent before you sexualize them, they aren't going to say; "no you can't put me in a maid costume!" These are characters from our imaginations that we are able to do with as we please… They don't have feelings and they don't have rights!
Not a studio i would want to associate myself with if i was Sony.
Definitely a thread of all time
Odd how I missed it the first time around
