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Starting to realize I was wrong about Biden

Goodstyle

Goodstyle

Banned
Nov 1, 2017
1,661
Look, I still think his past is horrendous. The shit he championed back then, the personal indiscretions (I believe the women), and his role in getting Clarence Thomas on the Supreme Court are things I can't forgive. I also hate a lot of the people he currently surrounds himself with. I don't think he'd be the best president of everyone that was running, not even close. Way better than Trump, but still not my ideal pick.

I was 100% wrong though, about his viability as a candidate. I thought he was Hillary 2.0, but he really, truly isn't. I overlooked something so basic that I should have known from the start. People like Joe Biden. People I know who rail about how much they hate the establishment like him. People who are advocates for sexual assault like him. Gay people love him. Black people love him (my parents and all my relatives were confused at my Bernie support).

And he's turned Trump into the Hillary of the election. The right is obsessed with owning Biden with facts and logic. They keep trying to pin him with an inaccurate statement he makes are when they catch him slipping on his delivery. They keep trying to make gaffes like his "You ain't black" thing stick. It won't work. People don't care about any of that since they already decided on Biden just like they already decided on Hillary Clinton.

Anyone else feeling optimistic about November now when they weren't before?
 
Volimar

Volimar

volunteer forum janitor
Member
Oct 25, 2017
39,414
I wanted someone more progressive but his willingness to move left some gives me hope he'll move more as the party does. And he's built a huge coalition to defeat Trump. An impressive feat in this day and age.
 
GiantEnemyGoomba

GiantEnemyGoomba

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,293
He's willing to hold the views of the "average Dem," which could be quite different compared to what he's done in the past. It'll be interesting to see just how much he's willing to change if things continue how they're going.
 
dlauv

dlauv

Prophet of Truth - One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,515
I want the biggest dem margins we can get and then to keep pushing. With Biden we have a chance to get fortuitous margins. The House has a ton of progressive legislation they're just holding onto.

I'm optimistic but we've been burned before so it's hard to let that optimism be a regular feeling.
 
Titik

Titik

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,490
Good.

We have been saying this about Biden.

We also said that he has the ability to move to where the center of the party is. If that meant that it moved to the left, he would move to the center of that left as well.

But people misconstrue this as being aj establishment hack by bad faith actors including so many in this site and chased off established posters that used to post a lot in the OT.
 
Afrikan

Afrikan

Member
Oct 28, 2017
17,243
Fuck Biden...

For anyone else...Vote for him if you are in a swing state... but if you don't want to, I'd understand.

But yeah Fuck Joe Biden.
 
TreeMePls

TreeMePls

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,261
Volimar said:
I wanted someone more progressive but his willingness to move left some gives me hope he'll move more as the party does. And he's built a huge coalition to defeat Trump. An impressive feat in this day and age.
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GiantEnemyGoomba said:
He's willing to hold the views of the "average Dem," which could be quite different compared to what he's done in the past. It'll be interesting to see just how much he's willing to change if things continue how they're going.
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The fact he has Bernie helping him with policy gives me some hope. Also works extremely well in Bernie's favor too since he can move the Dems left by using the "moderate Dem" as a proxy for progressive policy in the background instead of being front and center as the President.
 
HeyNay

HeyNay

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,495
Somewhere
Outside of his electability, the only other positive thing I can think of is that people in congress like him too. He's been known to get along with everyone, and has a track record of getting things done. He isn't my preferred candidate, but my god is he a better option than Trump. Please, anything... other than Trump.
 

Gyro Zeppeli

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,289
What the US needs right now is universal healthcare more than ever, but you're not going to get Biden to accept that even right now, and that makes me so furious. Imagine being that stubborn and delusional into the profit-driven capitalist system.
 
Dalek

Dalek

Member
Oct 25, 2017
39,288
Biden has had a very tragic personal life. The stories about him taking the train home everyday to be sure to be with his kids before bedtime-that shows that he is an empathetic person. He's literally the opposite of Trump in that regards. I can't see Trump going out of his way and being inconvenienced in order in do something selfless for someone else.
 
Titik

Titik

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,490
Dalek said:
Biden has had a very tragic personal life. The stories about him taking the train home everyday to be sure to be with his kids before bedtime-that shows that he is an empathetic person. He's literally the opposite of Trump in that regards. I can't see Trump going out of his way and being inconvenienced in order in do something selfless for someone else.
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The only stories of Trump we hear about wanting to be with his kids is his implied attraction to his own daughter 🤢🤮
 
Belthazar90

Belthazar90

Banned
Jun 3, 2019
4,316
I'm not American so I don't really know for sure, but I'm under the impression that the 2 parties you guys have over there are basically right (Republicans) and moderate right (Democrats) with the most left leaning candidate being Sander (his policies are mostly moderate left from my point of view). If it is the case Biden seems to be moderate enough as expected isn't he?

PS: not wanting to offend anyone, just trying to understand how things are over there as what's labeled as left in my country leans way more into Socialism/Marxism than even Sanders or AOC seem to.
 
rokkerkory

rokkerkory

Banned
Jun 14, 2018
14,128
It's not just about Biden, it's about taking the Senate and keeping the House.

We need this to happen so that we can pass more progressive laws and reverse the damage Trump has done.
 
Chaos Legion

Chaos Legion

The Wise Ones
Member
Oct 30, 2017
16,991
I never really had any problems with Biden. He was likely last in my top 5 of the Democratic candidates.

But he survived an intense primary of 20+ people. He has shown to essentially move to the center of the Democratic Party over his entire history, as reflected by his latest stances.

I want him to be more aggressive on healthcare (just adapt Medicare for America). I want him to be more aggressive than decriminalizing marijuana.

But he'll have competent people around him and will sign legislation that Congress can pass. So I'm rooting for him.
 
Envelope

Envelope

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
896
Volimar said:
I wanted someone more progressive but his willingness to move left some gives me hope he'll move more as the party does. And he's built a huge coalition to defeat Trump. An impressive feat in this day and age.
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Joe "I would veto medicare for all if I came across my desk" Biden's willingness to move left, I see.
 
Afrikan

Afrikan

Member
Oct 28, 2017
17,243
Titik said:
If you want people to vote for him then you would want to stop with this nonsense.
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Nonsense?

At least I'm being honest about my feelings...and not BSing others to like someone who doesn't deserve the benefit of the doubt, like Era has been doing for a few months now.

Let him prove and continue to prove himself when it counts... until then fuck him.
 
TrueSloth

TrueSloth

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,082
Belthazar90 said:
I'm not American so I don't really know for sure, but I'm under the impression that the 2 parties you guys have over there are basically right (Republicans) and moderate right (Democrats) with the most left leaning candidate being Sander (his policies are mostly moderate left from my point of view). If it is the case Biden seems to be moderate enough as expected isn't he?

PS: not wanting to offend anyone, just trying to understand how things are over there as what's seen as left in my country is way more Marxist than even Sanders or AOC seem to be.
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You're correct. But people here a starving for something and are willing to grab some shitty moderate instead of thinking they can get something better. The two party system does this to us. Also the DNC has a lot of influence in who becomes the leading candidate.
 
Titik

Titik

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,490
Belthazar90 said:
I'm not American so I don't really know for sure, but I'm under the impression that the 2 parties you guys have over there are basically right (Republicans) and moderate right (Democrats) with the most left leaning candidate being Sander (his policies are mostly moderate left from my point of view). If it is the case Biden seems to be moderate enough as expected isn't he?

PS: not wanting to offend anyone, just trying to understand how things are over there as what's labeled as left in my country leans way more into Socialism/Marxism than even Sanders or AOC seem to.
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Democrats are not moderate right.

They are to the left of many European parties on many issues (like race relations and immigration).
 
platocplx

platocplx

2020 Member Elect
Member
Oct 30, 2017
36,085
Y2Kev said:
Yeah people didn't like Hillary. Sad.
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Enough people MI PA and WI didn't like her. we were 80k combined from her being president. Shit was a perfect storm of shit. Unfavorable just enough on top of having all these other candidates on the ballot(Jill Stein and the libertarian candidate) it's pretty insane if you look back. Esoteric libertarian and Green Party don't even hear a peep. Shit was weird.
 

Deleted member 2834

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,620
Yeah he's very popular. I think some people on here got a very skewed perception of the electorate by browsing Twitter and certain echo chamber subreddits all day. The majority of democrats aren't progressive
 
platocplx

platocplx

2020 Member Elect
Member
Oct 30, 2017
36,085
Afrikan said:
Nonsense?

At least I'm being honest about my feelings...and not BSing others to like someone who doesn't deserve the benefit of the doubt, like Era has been doing for a few months now.

Let him prove and continue to prove himself when it counts... until then fuck him.
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I think you should focus on down ballot stuff. I get the feelings though. But again having gains for progressives in time house and senate riding his coattails mean way more.
 
Shake Appeal

Shake Appeal

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,896
He's a polite face on a stick that doesn't upset most people and reminds them of the relative peace and gentility of the American elite prior to 2016. There's nothing special or talented about him. All he has to do is shuffle over the lowest bar in history and not grope anyone on TV for a few months. Yay.
 
yogurt

yogurt

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,151
Belthazar90 said:
I'm not American so I don't really know for sure, but I'm under the impression that the 2 parties you guys have over there are basically right (Republicans) and moderate right (Democrats) with the most left leaning candidate being Sander (his policies are mostly moderate left from my point of view). If it is the case Biden seems to be moderate enough as expected isn't he?

PS: not wanting to offend anyone, just trying to understand how things are over there as what's labeled as left in my country leans way more into Socialism/Marxism than even Sanders or AOC seem to.
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Democrats run the range from solid left to center. The party overall is center-left.

The Republicans used to run the range from center to solid right, but over the past few decades have ceded almost completely to the far right.

So we have a far right party and a center-left party. Some Democrats / Democratic voters are center or even center-right, simply because 20 years ago they would have been Republicans before the Republican party jumped off of the deep end and now they don't really fit in anywhere else.

Ideally we would have four or five parties, but here we are.
 

Gyro Zeppeli

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,289
Imp the Dimp said:
Yeah he's very popular. I think some people on here got a very skewed perception of the electorate by browsing Twitter and certain echo chamber subreddits all day. The majority of democrats aren't progressive
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The majority of old people aren't progressive, not all democrats in the country. Very important distinction.
 
Titik

Titik

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,490
Shake Appeal said:
He's a polite face on a stick that doesn't upset most people and reminds them of the relative peace and gentility of the American elite prior to 2016. There's nothing special or talented about him. All he has to do is shuffle over the lowest bar in history and not grope anyone on TV for a few months. Yay.
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Stop with this nonsense too. He has not groped anyone on TV. This post is emblemetic of the toxic shit we had to deal with when supporting Biden in the primary.
 

Deleted member 36054

Banned
Dec 12, 2017
4,652
TrueSloth said:
You're correct. But people here a starving for something and are willing to grab some shitty moderate instead of thinking they can get something better. The two party system does this to us. Also the DNC has a lot of influence in who becomes the leading candidate.
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The 2 part system doesn't do anything but make this a reality. I personally have to think

1) who would have the best chance to defeat Trump
2) who would have the best chance to defeat Trump
3) who would have the best chance to defeat Trump and win the Senate

This is my own perspective.
 
Tawpgun

Tawpgun

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,861
Most people knew he was extremely electable.

You just gotta get out of your progressive bubble. I still have friends who can't fathom him being popular.
 
Blader

Blader

Member
Oct 27, 2017
26,732
I sometimes get the impression that people think Biden voted for Clarence Thomas.
TrueSloth said:
You're correct. But people here a starving for something and are willing to grab some shitty moderate instead of thinking they can get something better. The two party system does this to us. Also the DNC has a lot of influence in who becomes the leading candidate.
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What starving? We had 20+ candidates to choose from this time. Voters still went to Biden.

If the DNC has a lot of influence on picking the nominee, they sure went about it in a pretty counter-productive way this past year. Establishment support did not coalesce around Biden until there were literally no other establishment choices left. Establishment donors went to Pete far more than Biden, whose fundraising through much of 2019 was anemic. If the DNC was going to crown Biden right out of the gate, then they would have consolidated that money around him, pushed other candidates out of that race, and gotten Obama to endorse early.

None of that happened and it didn't even need to anyway. Because the fact is a lot people across a really broad range of demographics like Joe Biden. He entered the race in the lead, and with one or two brief exceptions, never gave up the lead. The DNC didn't make him the leading candidate, he came into it as the leading candidate.
 
AegonSnake

AegonSnake

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,566
Afrikan said:
Let him prove and continue to prove himself when it counts... until then fuck him.
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he proved himself when he blurted out support for gay marriage when obama was still trying to appeal to conservatives. he literally forced obama's hand on gay marriage.

he proved himself when he went up against Paul Ryan and destroyed him after Obama's awful performance against Mitt Romney all but eliminated his advantage in the polls.

You can also google his time in the senate and find out what he's done for this country.
 
TrueSloth

TrueSloth

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,082
Tawpgun said:
Most people knew he was extremely electable.

You just gotta get out of your progressive bubble. I still have friends who can't fathom him being popular.
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The "electability" discussion prevented anyone better from being the nominee. It's a farce meant to make you stop questioning what values the candidates stand for as long as they "can beat Trump". It poisoned the discussion.
 
Afrikan

Afrikan

Member
Oct 28, 2017
17,243
Edit- yall know what...yall do yall. It's like some want to rewrite history/perception here.
 
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Tawpgun

Tawpgun

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,861
Goodstyle said:
Don't you think her past would be a liability given the renewed focus on police brutality?
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The percentage of dems who wouldn't like her as a VP because of this is extremely small. Some progressives will call her out, rightfully so, but its not a liability at all. That and since the Floyd protests she's been firmly on the BLM side and was even in favor of the "defund the police movement"
 
The Chosen One

The Chosen One

Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,934
Mad props to you OP. Mad props.

It's not easy admitting you were wrong, especially on an Internet forum, so Kudos for being man/woman enough to admit it and move forward.

Joe Biden wasn't my first pick either, but I hopped over to Biden after Kamala flamed out last fall. My hope Biden being likeable, a moderate, and a known quantity would give us the best chance for victory and maybe putting the Senate in play. If you lookup Generic Democrat in the dictionary, you'll see Joe Biden's face.

But I'm still stunned at just how well Biden is doing so far. His performance and current poll numbers are far exceeding anything I would have imagined at this point. If the election were held today, Biden would be pushing a 350-400 EC victory with the Senate changing hands. Unfortunately the election isn't held today and we still have several months to go and a lot can happen but now it's confirmed Biden has an upper limit potential of a massive landslide victory and winning back the Senate with maybe a seat to spare.

If we get more people to vote in November, then that upper limit can be realized. I personally feel Trumpism can only truly be squashed if Trump and the GOP are destroyed at the ballot box in November.
 
Ketch

Ketch

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,299
I'm optimistic about November, but I am pessimistic about everything after that.

People think things are going to get better when in reality it's more like things will just stop getting worse for some of us for awhile.
 
Ryuelli

Ryuelli

Member
Oct 26, 2017
15,209
Goodstyle said:
Don't you think her past would be a liability given the renewed focus on police brutality?
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I'm not black so it's not my place to really speak on that, but if she was VP and she helped to implement policies to really change what policing looked like, than I'd prefer to judge her on what she does now rather than what she did then.
 
Envelope

Envelope

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
896
Ryuelli said:
I'm not black so it's not my place to really speak on that, but if she was VP and she helped to implement policies to really change what policing looked like, than I'd prefer to judge her on what she does now rather than what she did then.
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why settle for the ex-cop instead of someone who was never a cop?
 
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