What did you think of Starfield?

  • It looked Great

    Votes: 1,128 22.9%
  • It looked Good

    Votes: 1,108 22.5%
  • It looked Ok

    Votes: 1,488 30.2%
  • It looked Bad

    Votes: 613 12.4%
  • No Man's Skyrim

    Votes: 595 12.1%

  • Total voters
    4,934
  • Poll closed .

ragolliangatan

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Aug 31, 2019
4,557
Yeah, a bunch of people have quote tweeted saying effectively the same thing. I stopped taming for a few years (between 2010 and 2017) so I missed Skyrim's moment. I own it, but it's deep in the backlog. I get what he meant now based on a lot of the replies here. It's kind of a hard thing to fathom, which is maybe why it's so special.

Skyrim also hit the shelves a few months after GoT tv show started so people were really looking for a game of it's ilk. They really nailed the marketing, and the game itself is fantastic and over the years has taken on a life of it's own with mods,etc... Bethesda's games are always primarily about what you as the player wants to spend their time doing.
 

Jedi2016

Member
Oct 27, 2017
16,239
It was. I've played Fallout 4 more than I like to admit, and the only part of the Settlement building you "have" to engage with (and even then, only if you pursue the main story rather than free-form play) is helping the Minutemen get setup in Sanctuary with some beds, food, water, and turrets. When you've played the game enough times it's not even 5 minutes of effort. After that the building system is entirely optional.
Yeah, that's how I remember it too. I remember placing some beds and putting up a few turrets, maybe building a workbench? And that's about it. I fiddled around with putting up actual buildings later, but that was of my own volition, not because the game "forced" me to.
 

The Albatross

Member
Oct 25, 2017
39,446
Skyrim also hit the shelves a few months after GoT tv show started so people were really looking for a game of it's ilk. They really nailed the marketing, and the game itself is fantastic and over the years has taken on a life of it's own with mods,etc... Bethesda's games are always primarily about what you as the player wants to spend their time doing.

yep it was really good timing for Skyrim to hit at the peak zeitgeist of Game of Thrones. They certainly had GoT/ASoIaF in mind during development.
 

ragolliangatan

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Aug 31, 2019
4,557
This short clip from a talk two years ago very well informs the whole 1000 planets thing imo:



this is the method I thought the would use for the game- they'll sprinkle handcrafted content where it fits using procedural techniques to get them 90% of the way towards their goal. What I would like them to do a video on in the future for Starfield is an explanation on how the shift from one world to many is going to impact the exploration loop. We've been used to Bethesda's exploration model since Morrowind and this looks like it is the first attempt for them to alter it.

We've been used to their games having hundreds of points of interest/dungeons. Is their technique this time to have "hub" worlds where main story content such as the cities/towns exist with areas around the vicinity of it to explore ( a bit like outer worlds) or have they gone with a model where the dungeons,etc.. that you used to walk to on foot are now spread across all the planets? My bets are on a hybrid model for exploration.
 

The Albatross

Member
Oct 25, 2017
39,446
It's like ten minutes, and you never have to touch it again. Not exactly a game breaker.

Yeah, but you only know that after playing the game substantially. It's kinda like the camp stuff in RDR2, if you go into the game blind and don't know much about it, it seems like the camp activities -- cutting wood, cooking, providing food, fetch tasks, upgrading camp, etc -- are a major, major part of the game... Hell that's how the game presents it. Meanwhile in reality after you've playued 50 or 60 hours, you realize, like, oh, that camp stuff is all optional and not important at all. On subsequent play throughs I pretty much just ignored it all, but as a first time player there's a lot of people who ask "... do I *really* have to do these camp activities like carrying hay around...?" And the answer is "no," but you wouldn't know that from playing the game the first time.

In FO4, the settlement building was optional but a lot of the side quest design was built up around supporting settlement building and collecting junk. A lot of the hook of exploration was "Go explore this Robot factory to do this unimportant side quest, BUT there's added value because you can find telephones, and telephones have springs in them, and you need springs to build an armor repair kit for your settlement, and you want to protect that armor repair kit so you better invest in securitrons and turrets..." A lot of the game was designed around the settlement building even if you wanted to ignore it. I liked settlement building at first but then it became onerous and I didn't like it as much as I liked just "having a home" in Fallout NV or Skyrim.

I'll still scope it out for this, I assume it'll be a major focus of the game.
 

disparate

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,361
Procedurally generating planets isn't much different in how it seems to apply here compared to procedurally generating a forest. You're obviously not going to fucking hand model 1000 trees, generate what you need and add your hand-developed content to it.
 

Tigress

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,277
Washington
yeap. PC is the way to go unless they offer "mod support" again on consoles.

They probably will. Microsoft didnt' seem to be so against it on xbox and the one company that really dragged their feet and were obstinate about it and even when finally made to come around barely supported it isn't being supported this time (sadly taht was what I had to play fallout 4 on, playstation). So they don't need to worry about one platform they support getting pissed cause other platforms got more support (and there will always be people who blame them even though Sony was from what I understand the big obstacle).
 

Jiraiya

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,380
Landing anywhere could come with a huge asterisk. Sure, you might be able to click on any point on a planet, but is it going to actually be the entire planet fully generated to the point that you could just walk all the way around? That's a massive amount of effort for something that kind of doesn't matter if there's no flying in atmosphere, which seems to be the case since they showed nothing like that.

Don't think there's a connection with in atmosphere flying and having a walkable planet. In the grand scheme of things... there are multiple titles playable with walkable planets. Even an indie dev did It. I wouldn't be surprised if it were a massive undertaking... but I'm positive many other parts of this game also took massive amounts of effort.
 

Sangral

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Feb 17, 2022
6,227
Do we know if we can stop in space, get up from the cockpit and walk around in our ship? That's a make or break for me when it comes to this game.

I also hope the lift off from the planets is not just a fixed cutscene that's the same every single time.
 

YaBish

Unshakable Resolve - One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,403
Procedural generation isn't the problem if it's done well.

Death Stranding and Horizon (both 1 and 2) both use procedural generation, yet have very specific vistas and landscapes that feel distinct.

Horizon FW especially has a very memorable landscape and it's clear that a lot of the procedural generation was touched by a human hand.
 

Vic20

Banned
Nov 10, 2019
3,548
Procedural generation isn't the problem if it's done well.

Death Stranding and Horizon (both 1 and 2) both use procedural generation, yet have very specific vistas and landscapes that feel distinct.

Horizon FW especially has a very memorable landscape and it's clear that a lot of the procedural generation was touched by a human hand.
it all depends on whether they abuse the radiant quest system like they did in Fallout 4, if they do, I don't really see myself playing a lot cause the fun stopped really quickly in that game for me.
 

HanzSnubSnub

Member
Oct 27, 2017
942
The first few minutes I could see the Bethesda jank and the poor frame rate, but honestly after that, everything looked great!

The base building, ship building, graphics, cities, RPG elements, and exploration looked rad. The combat looks like it could be improved but given another year of development I could see it being addressed.
 

YaBish

Unshakable Resolve - One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,403
it all depends on whether they abuse the radiant quest system like they did in Fallout 4, if they do, I don't really see myself playing a lot cause the fun stopped really quickly in that game for me.
Yeah, that's the thing isn't it? There's only so many times you can do a bandit camp. I think best case they maybe have quests that touch on multiple planets so there's a reason to visit without making them too samey.
 

eyeball_kid

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,344
this is the method I thought the would use for the game- they'll sprinkle handcrafted content where it fits using procedural techniques to get them 90% of the way towards their goal. What I would like them to do a video on in the future for Starfield is an explanation on how the shift from one world to many is going to impact the exploration loop. We've been used to Bethesda's exploration model since Morrowind and this looks like it is the first attempt for them to alter it.

We've been used to their games having hundreds of points of interest/dungeons. Is their technique this time to have "hub" worlds where main story content such as the cities/towns exist with areas around the vicinity of it to explore ( a bit like outer worlds) or have they gone with a model where the dungeons,etc.. that you used to walk to on foot are now spread across all the planets? My bets are on a hybrid model for exploration.

What you described is really just the way they built Elder Scrolls II: Daggerfall. It was a huge procedural map of towns, with some handcrafted content layered on top. I think that speaks to what Todd was saying in the video -- they went away from that after Daggerfall, but are now coming back to that idea.

Procedurally generating planets isn't much different in how it seems to apply here compared to procedurally generating a forest. You're obviously not going to fucking hand model 1000 trees, generate what you need and add your hand-developed content to it.

Procedurally generating the terrain of a planet is a lot different than placing trees in terms of gameplay impact. Because the former means you cannot have fixed AI pathing for creatures/NPCs because there is no pre-existing terrain you can base those paths on. Hello Games struggled with this during NMS's development. Now perhaps Bethesda hand-generated each of these 1000 planets and then applied pathing to each one by hand, but given the scale of them (not sure how big they are compared to NMS planets) that seems unlikely.
 

senj

Member
Nov 6, 2017
4,605
Procedurally generating the terrain of a planet is a lot different than placing trees in terms of gameplay impact. Because the former means you cannot have fixed AI pathing for creatures/NPCs because there is no pre-existing terrain you can base those paths on. Hello Games struggled with this during NMS's development. Now perhaps Bethesda hand-generated each of these 1000 planets and then applied pathing to each one by hand, but given the scale of them (not sure how big they are compared to NMS planets) that seems unlikely.

It depends on how they're doing it. NMS procedurally generates stuff on the fly, which makes pathfinding hard since you're doing it all real-time.

I've been assuming that Bethesda is proc-gening these worlds in dev (we all get the same thousand planets), which means they could just pre-bake terrain analysis and gen a lot of the pathfinding information offline, so there's a lot less work that has to be done at runtime.
 

eyeball_kid

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,344
It depends on how they're doing it. NMS procedurally generates stuff on the fly, which makes pathfinding hard since you're doing it all real-time.

I've been assuming that Bethesda is proc-gening these worlds in dev (we all get the same thousand planets), which means they could just pre-bake terrain analysis and gen a lot of the pathfinding information offline, so there's a lot less work that has to be done at runtime.

Yeah that's a good point. I wasn't sure if the 1000 planets were exactly the same between players/playthroughs, but if they are then they could generate that pathing ahead of time.
 

ragolliangatan

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Aug 31, 2019
4,557
Yeah that's a good point. I wasn't sure if the 1000 planets were exactly the same between players/playthroughs, but if they are then they could generate that pathing ahead of time.

i'd hope that Bethesda has managed to get some support from MS SDET to allow them to write automated testing tools to check pathfinding issues, as well as other potential issues with the procedural generation algorithms.
 

Emwitus

The Fallen
Feb 28, 2018
4,682
FPS hun? Hard pass unfortunately. Wish someone would make a gta style space colonization game. I feel like that would print money
 

Sande

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,097
Don't think there's a connection with in atmosphere flying and having a walkable planet. In the grand scheme of things... there are multiple titles playable with walkable planets. Even an indie dev did It. I wouldn't be surprised if it were a massive undertaking... but I'm positive many other parts of this game also took massive amounts of effort.
My point is that full free flight necessitates fully implementing planets. Loading screens and landing cutscenes don't. So Bethesda doesn't have to go that route. I still expect them to.
 

DarkChronic

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,076
Any confirmation on lore regarding if humanity has discovered intelligent alien life yet? I'm assuming it will play a part in the story but I'm not sure what state the universe is at during the game (i.e. having met intelligent life already at game start, planets populated by other races / having discovered ancient aliens tech but only humans populate the planets / only humans galaxy wide but trying to find other life)
 

-Pyromaniac-

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,468
It looked OK. Gameplay looked bland and ultra janky, as to be expected from a Bethesda game. Aesthetic looked cool I guess....the 1000 planets thing is a red flag for me.

Overall I had no opinion of this because I knew so little about it, and now I leave with a somewhat negative opinion of it. Luckily it's on gamepass so I can sub for a month or two and play it if I want one day but yeah...
 

Emwitus

The Fallen
Feb 28, 2018
4,682
GTA has a first person mode lmao


What i meant is that i wish it had a third person mode (and turns out that it does). My point still stands tho, i wish the GTA creators would work on a space colonization game. Like even the gta engine with a transition smooth transition from planet surface to space would be awesome.
 

Torpedo Vegas

Member
Oct 27, 2017
23,051
Parts Unknown.
okay, this now peaked my interest. Thanks for the additional information.
3rd person was shown in the reveal.
STAR.png

field.png
 

ToddBonzalez

The Pyramids? That's nothing compared to RDR2
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
15,530
I didn't know if that was some sort of free roam camera or actual gameplay as it all transitioned into FPS when they action was going on. Again, third person ala gta/read dead redemption would be crazy
3rd person has always felt awful in Bethesda games. Maybe they improved it this time around, but I wouldn't get my hopes up.
 

Vex

Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,213
I do think that the verticality of combat will bring in a new dimension to combat. Being able to fly/hover in your space suit while engaging enemies is gonna be pretty cool. It looked pretty suit and I bet there will be some sort of perk/trait for aerial fighting too maybe haha.



I mean, we had jetpacks in fallout so this is only a natural evolution... 😳



Screenshot-20220614-152515.jpg

I really wanna visit this planet ☺️ and KILL THE GIANT DINOS
 
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Brannon

One Winged Slayer
Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
1,597
The shipbuilding gives me hope; the ships themselves look clunky (to fit the theme?), but we may not have seen all the ship modules. And of course going by Skyrim's cute petite anime girls packing gigantic muscular dongs mod scene (shut up), we are definitely going to get modded-in ship modules for as much slick, futuristic shipping we could want, as well as all the Millenium Falcons, X-Wings, Defiants, Normandies, and Outlaw Stars we can stomach. Ships will not be an issue.

...just gotta get past the Thomas the Space Engine mod first; traditions, you know!

EDIT: prediction; modders are gonna snatch Star Citizen's ship models out of spite.
 

xpownz

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Member
Feb 13, 2020
2,239
Wonder if we'll get breathable air in some planet other than earth so we can build some vacation base and enjoy life outside of the astronaut suit
 

trashbandit

Member
Dec 19, 2019
3,912
It's a Bethesda RPG, it will perfectly playable in 3rd person other than switching to first to pick up small objects. I've not played a single one of them since Morrowind in first person.
"Perfectly playable" is a real stretch. These are first person games with, at best, a debug third person camera. How the camera operates, the level design, scale of the world, etc. is all specifically designed from a first person perspective, which is why the third person modes in these games are always terrible.
 

DopeyFish

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,872
oh wow

you'll have speech trees in space for hailing. you can board and steal other peoples ships.

they are a lot deeper than i thought they were going with.

they are now at over 200k lines of dialog... so between 3-4x the amount of skyrim
 

fourfourfun

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,789
England
LTTP, but the building in this looks a lot more immediate. F4's building was awesome if you wanted to put the time into it, but it was so painful to execute if you didn't.

"Perfectly playable" is a real stretch. These are first person games with, at best, a debug third person camera. How the camera operates, the level design, scale of the world, etc. is all specifically designed from a first person perspective, which is why the third person modes in these games are always terrible.

I feel like this about No Man's Sky - that was 100% FPS when it started out, and the new default TPS mode just feels plain weird! I'm always through the eyes for Bethesda.
 

DopeyFish

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,872
they are gunning for 30-40 hours for the main quest

so in their mind at least 20% longer than their previous main quests

they just confirmed you cannot fly down to planets, it's transitions only