Oct 28, 2017
13,691
I feel like the cave scene in The Last Jedi needs to have some meaning. "She fell into a cave and saw some trippy shit but it never really tied into the overall plot" isn't good storytelling, Rey being a clone would give that scene foreshadowing.

It has meaning, to Rey. Her greatest fear is being alone. And that's what the dark side cave showed her. She wasn't prepared to hear that and it sent her into the arms of Ben Solo who tried to exploit her insecurities. The scene is rooted in her psychology and flaws. It's not some dumb fanfic about being a clone
 
Oct 25, 2017
12,761
Arizona
My guess with that Rey shot is that it's a vision a "Sheev Palpatine's Diary"/"Horcrux Palpatine" shows Kylo, along the lines of "she would be a far greater apprentice of the Dark Side than you could ever be" to antagonize him. The "evil clone"/"Rey goes dark side" theories are nuts.
 

MagicHobo

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,606
My guess with that Rey shot is that it's a vision a "Sheev Palpatine's Diary"/"Horcrux Palpatine" shows Kylo, along the lines of "she would be a far greater apprentice of the Dark Side than you could ever be" to antagonize him. The "evil clone"/"Rey goes dark side" theories are nuts.
That makes sense to me personally. I could see such a think making him feel dually jealous and protective of her and feeding into a sort of but too little too late redemption. I'm no Reylo advocate, but it's clear Kylo is into her more than she is into him and probably a little envious of her (perhaps that she isn't as conflicted as he).
 

UltraMagnus

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
15,670
It has meaning, to Rey. Her greatest fear is being alone. And that's what the dark side cave showed her. She wasn't prepared to hear that and it sent her into the arms of Ben Solo who tried to exploit her insecurities. The scene is rooted in her psychology and flaws. It's not some dumb fanfic about being a clone

If they really wanted to make that aspect interesting maybe that story should've been structured so she actually considers Kylo Ren's offer. It being an immediate dismissal basically takes all the wind out of it.

They're jumping into the "fan fic" pool anyway with the whole Palpatine resurrected or what ever it is in the next film anyway.
 

gutter_trash

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
17,124
Montreal
If they really wanted to make that aspect interesting maybe that story should've been structured so she actually considers Kylo Ren's offer. It being an immediate dismissal basically takes all the wind out of it.

They're jumping into the "fan fic" pool anyway with the whole Palpatine resurrected or what ever it is in the next film anyway.
yup
a big missed opportunity
 

Surfinn

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
28,590
USA
I would agree if it hasn't been foreshadowed a bit, but it would line up with what we're shown in TFA and TLJ ... she has Force abilities that seem to lie latent in and activate all of the sudden in TFA.

In the TLJ she has a cave vision which shows multiple versions of herself.

Now the cave vision Luke had in Empire obviously foreshadowed a very important plot point later on. So this would give that scene meaning too.

If it was Palpatine that started the clone program ... well then that ties in rather conveniently for him to be the antagonist in IX because Rey's history and where she comes from ties back to him.

I mean sure it could be hokey, but it works narratively I feel.

Also finally this would explain why Anakin's lightsaber calls to Rey ... if Palpatine was fucking around with making a better version of Vader and using his DNA (without his knowledge probably) ... welp, there's that mystery box solved too.
Yeah, I think this kinda stuff just feels really contrived personally. DNA/sci fi/roundabout scientific explanation doesn't work well in the SW universe, as a narrative device. The OT is not based off of this stuff, which are the best movies in the franchise. They're based off of mystery, space magic, family, destiny.. simple concepts that aren't needlessly complicated. Good vs evil.

Ending the saga with cloning main characters would be a far bigger disaster than even what was done in the PT.
 

UltraMagnus

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
15,670
Yeah, I think this kinda stuff just feels really contrived personally. DNA/sci fi doesn't really work well in the SW universe. The OT is not based off of this stuff, which are the best movies in the franchise. They're based off of mystery, space magic, family, destiny.. simple concepts that aren't needlessly complicated. Good vs evil.

Ending the saga with cloning main characters would be a far bigger disaster than even what was done in the PT.

Except clones have kinda been a canonical part of it from the very first movie when Obi-Wan mentions the Clone Wars in A New Hope.

There's nothing in the prequels that couldn't have worked and worked well ... that was just crap execution all the way through.
 

Surfinn

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
28,590
USA
Except clones have kinda been a canonical part of it from the very first movie when Obi-Wan mentions the Clone Wars in A New Hope.

There's nothing in the prequels that couldn't have worked and worked well ... that was just crap execution all the way through.
I'm not sure why people keep bringing this up. It's a minor plot detail in the overarching plot of the OT. It's a freaking single line that isn't referenced or mentioned again until the PT.

EP4-6 are completely unchanged if you remove it, narratively. It's cool, and I'm glad it's there, even without the PT, but it's largely meaningless until the late 90s.

No one said it's not canonical, just that it's basically a throwaway line until the PT rolls around.
 

UltraMagnus

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
15,670
I don't think you want to do something like 50,000 clones or something too hokey like that. But in a story where Palpatine is presumably back ... Rey learning that she's tied to him (ie: a product of cloning experiments the Emperor himself started) fits narratively because it has emotional stakes for the main character other than just "well he's the big bad brought back".
 

Objektivity

Banned
Nov 18, 2017
1,058
I'm onboard #teamclone! I'd even forgive Rian Johnson for TLJ just go all out nuts with the storyline and finish the remaining star wars fan base. Lol
 
Oct 28, 2017
13,691
If they really wanted to make that aspect interesting maybe that story should've been structured so she actually considers Kylo Ren's offer. It being an immediate dismissal basically takes all the wind out of it.

They're jumping into the "fan fic" pool anyway with the whole Palpatine resurrected or what ever it is in the next film anyway.
It has payoff in the sense that it ultimately unburdens her from the delusion about her parents. For Luke, things got more complicated. For Rey, it was cathartic.

There's still unresolved drama between her and Kylo though and that has an unpredictability built into it that makes the conclusion pretty interesting, in my opinion.
 

Deleted member 7051

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,254

Well yeah that much is obvious.

> like most incels he lived a comfortable life he was unappreciative of because he didn't feel as though people were paying enough attention to him;
> he hates his parents despite the fact they didn't dump him with his uncle until he was in his mid-twenties so it's safe to assume he never had a job;
> he tries very hard to be evil but he really sucks at it and he has like zero self-esteem because he spends more time complaining about what he isn't than accepting what he is;
> he's creeping super hard on a woman with no romantic feelings towards him and he has serious anger issues and violent outbursts when he doesn't get what he wants.

Ben is easily the most... pathetic villain in the Star Wars movies.
 

Pop-O-Matic

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
13,041
Chewbacca moon death, is that tame by how weird stuff got?

Hutt porn, Force-sensitive droids, Zombie Stormtroopers, Luke falling in love with a computer, Boba Fett getting thrown in the Sarlacc Pit two more times, the "What if Luke failed to blow up the Death Star?" story that ends with Yoda re-enacting Majora's Mask with the Death Star as the moon and Coruscant as Termina, that time they almost published a novel revealing that the origin of Star Wars humans were refugees from a computer controlled 25th century Earth...we could be here all day
 

a916

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,938
Hutt porn, Force-sensitive droids, Zombie Stormtroopers, Luke falling in love with a computer, Boba Fett getting thrown in the Sarlacc Pit two more times, the "What if Luke failed to blow up the Death Star?" story that ends with Yoda re-enacting Majora's Mask with the Death Star as the moon and Coruscant as Termina, that time they almost published a novel revealing that the origin of Star Wars humans were refugees from a computer controlled 25th century Earth...we could be here all day

Whoa haha, that's crazy wild!
 
Dec 31, 2017
7,148
I don't think you want to do something like 50,000 clones or something too hokey like that. But in a story where Palpatine is presumably back ... Rey learning that she's tied to him (ie: a product of cloning experiments the Emperor himself started) fits narratively because it has emotional stakes for the main character other than just "well he's the big bad brought back".

I want one of those KOTOR opening fights with like 50 sith dudes with a red saber going HAM.

Well yeah that much is obvious.

> like most incels he lived a comfortable life he was unappreciative of because he didn't feel as though people were paying enough attention to him;
> he hates his parents despite the fact they didn't dump him with his uncle until he was in his mid-twenties so it's safe to assume he never had a job;
> he tries very hard to be evil but he really sucks at it and he has like zero self-esteem because he spends more time complaining about what he isn't than accepting what he is;
> he's creeping super hard on a woman with no romantic feelings towards him and he has serious anger issues and violent outbursts when he doesn't get what he wants.

Ben is easily the most... pathetic villain in the Star Wars movies.

He's a volcel
 

Rookhelm

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,705
giphy.gif



Sorry it doesn't have the new Rey one, but funny anyway
 

Oozer

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,880
Chewbacca moon death, is that tame by how weird stuff got?

Funny enough, members of the story group filled in the writers of Episode VII on some parts of the old EU early on in the process. It seems they struggled getting their minds around Chewie's death.



Hutt porn, Force-sensitive droids, Zombie Stormtroopers, Luke falling in love with a computer, Boba Fett getting thrown in the Sarlacc Pit two more times, the "What if Luke failed to blow up the Death Star?" story that ends with Yoda re-enacting Majora's Mask with the Death Star as the moon and Coruscant as Termina, that time they almost published a novel revealing that the origin of Star Wars humans were refugees from a computer controlled 25th century Earth...we could be here all day

Skippy the Force sensitive droid; Trioculus, the other three eyed "son of Palpatine"; the skull Luke throws against the controls in the Rancor pit getting an entire backstory; a droid taking over the second Death Star and using that power to mess with the Emperor like it's a Home Alone movie; everything that happens in "Crystal Star," especially Luke falling in thrall to Waru, the transdimensional gelatinous blob covered in scales.
 

SELIG

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
2,011
In this movie we will learn that Sheev Palpatine was a clone and the one true Shev to rule them all will return and claim his rightful place as ruler of the galaxy with a new clone army of dark reys at his disposal.
 

a916

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,938
Skippy the Force sensitive droid; Trioculus, the other three eyed "son of Palpatine"; the skull Luke throws against the controls in the Rancor pit getting an entire backstory; a droid taking over the second Death Star and using that power to mess with the Emperor like it's a Home Alone movie; everything that happens in "Crystal Star," especially Luke falling in thrall to Waru, the transdimensional gelatinous blob covered in scales.

A droid or AI taking over the death star kind of sounds pretty cool to be honest. But not the Home Alone stuff lol... I'm picturing that as just crazy hijincks like the droid spilling oil and the Emperor slipping on it and going Droiiiiiiiiiddddd.
 

Rookhelm

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,705
Or how about Vader could block Han's blaster with his glove, because that particular glove (but not the other hand) is some powerful ancient Sith Artifact.

How about Vader is just robotic and can use the force?
 

a916

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,938
In this movie we will learn that Sheev Palpatine was a clone and the one true Shev to rule them all will return and claim his rightful place as ruler of the galaxy with a new clone army of dark reys at his disposal.

And as it turns out, Kylo was the real hero, his grandfather was trying to warn him.
 

Rand a. Thor

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
10,213
Greece
Higher bitrate made it easier to pull out details.

(Is that something peeking out under the clouds in the bottom right? Water?)
MBbp4Xn.png


LUDibHE.png


9pdGrwV.png
The black and red are First Order trademark colors at this point, so that fleet isn't entirely imperial. But its also extremely Sith, so I'm still going with some sort of Star Forge reintroduction.
Rey is looking gooooooooood. have we seen that ring before?
I have a funny feeling that ring is the ring Rose gave to the Force sensitive kid at the emd of TLJ. What I mean is this is definitely a Force Vision showing Rey going full Anakin and killing off any potential Jedis, and the kid was likely one of her first victims.
it will be interesting to see how TLJ's reputation evolves over time

feels like it could age really well or age like milk

if this movie is shit, I think people might end up appreciating TLJ more
I feel TLJ is fine, but at the same time I also feel it could have worked better as an episode IX affair, with a Time skip into a second trilogy or at least a final pair of movies. Like there should have been a second film before the events took place and then have the conclusion, as it is the plot jumped forward with no real build up and now we have even more plot that assumingly somehow ends up making it work as an act 2 film despite doing stuff like killing off Snoke. If RoS does manage to do that and in a respectable manner, fuck it I'll give the movie the credit it deserves. That Krait Siege will always remain one of my favorite sequences of the last decade.
they dont need to spend much time,

remember that in the beginning of TLJ, the opening crawl says that the First Order started their conquest of the Galaxy, the Knights of Ren could have been the ones in charge of that.

and it can be implemented into episode 9 without much issue
I dunno what the new EU has said about the Knights, but I personally hold the belief that they are MUCH older than the new Republic and are not just a bunch of Force Sensitive assholes who follow Kylo around all day. If Snoke was just a puppetmaster working an Agenda for the Supreme Puppetmaster that is Darth Sidious, I do feel the Knights of Ren and Ben adopting the surname Ren have an ulterior purpose and meaning we do not know about yet.
I just hope that if they introduce the emperor on some level, they do it with tact. The entire original trilogy was about the fall and redemption of Anakin Skywalker, with that redemption culminating in him turning back to the light and killing his master to save his son. If they just go with, "ha, emperor - never died" it will retroactively damage that arc (for me).

However, I think they can do it in a way that acknowledges the Vader/Anakin sacrifice, I'm just not sure what it would be . . .
I think they won't back out on Sidious dying, cause Force Ghosts exist. I still don't buy force ghost possession, however I do think the idea of palpatine having some major fallback plans in case be died being a possibility. That is, while the Rule of Two does exist I am willing to believe that Snoke had a second apprentice that is strongly influenced by Palpatine's Force Ghost and has been working behind the scenes to clean things up if Snoke bit the dust.
The planet Rey is training on is Yavin 4 I think, where Leia also gets the medals in the other trailer.
Going back to the old Resistance Base would be amazing, not going to lie.
Thinking the fleet of destroyers is also part of a vision. I mean, look at how many there are. It doesn't even make sense.
Nah, unless the majority of the trailers darker scenes are visions as well. Those new destroyets have massive cannons on them and we see one of them firing off and destroying the ground, so its likely to be one of the major battles in the movie.
I feel like the cave scene in The Last Jedi needs to have some meaning. "She fell into a cave and saw some trippy shit but it never really tied into the overall plot" isn't good storytelling, Rey being a clone would give that scene foreshadowing.
She saw her parents and understood that she has her own path to forge, as we understand in the conversation with Kylo as he tells her she ks a nobody. That cave was being fed by the Dark Side and we know that Ren and Snoke had a constant connection to her psyche thanks to that, which is how he knew that his parents were nobodies.

In this movie we will learn that Sheev Palpatine was a clone and the one true Shev to rule them all will return and claim his rightful place as ruler of the galaxy with a new clone army of dark reys at his disposal.
Snoke is actually the original Shev who was fed up with the fact that Sheev failed and sakd fuck it I'll do it myself.
 

Gustaf

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
14,926
I dunno what the new EU has said about the Knights, but I personally hold the belief that they are MUCH older than the new Republic and are not just a bunch of Force Sensitive assholes who follow Kylo around all day. If Snoke was just a puppetmaster working an Agenda for the Supreme Puppetmaster that is Darth Sidious, I do feel the Knights of Ren and Ben adopting the surname Ren have an ulterior purpose and meaning we do not know about yet.

that will be covered soon in a comic i think, name, The Rise of Kylo Ren
 

Deleted member 8579

Oct 26, 2017
33,843
If Snoke is Sheev, doesn't that make him a bit of a moron?
 

Objektivity

Banned
Nov 18, 2017
1,058
TLJ fans jump onboard the Rey is clone train seeing as how that would be the ultimate subversion of expectations! I mean, wasn't that one of the reasons why TLJ was so great?