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Meows

Member
Oct 28, 2017
6,399
Chewie got the best out of them all in this sequel trilogy, didn't he? I literally love everything about him in these. From taking the avenging shot for his best friend, being the one that blew up the middle of Starkiller Base, got to see and speak with all his old friends, taking us through that great trench run in Last Jedi all by himself.

Especially considering they just dropped a moon on him in the old Legends stuff lmao.
 

Jest

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,565
Point is at the end of RotJ, anything is possible. Empire defeated and doesn't come back, new republic, new enemy nothing like the empire, no rebels, or even exactly what happened in TFA! Anything goes. To say TLJ "opens up the universe" more than RotJ is not true.

The Empire isn't defeated though. There are many ranking members of The Empire that still have plenty of forces under their direct control. The reality of such a situation is that now Rebels become New Republic who then fight Empire splinter groups that use the same power structure, equipment, tactics, rankings, etc.. as The Empire who will either continue to use The Empire in name or rebrand. Like say... The First Order.
 

sphagnum

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
16,058
Chewie got the best out of them all in this sequel trilogy, didn't he? I literally love everything about him in these. From taking the avenging shot for his best friend, being the one that blew up the middle of Starkiller Base, got to see and speak with all his old friends, taking us through that great trench run in Last Jedi all by himself.

Especially considering they just dropped a moon on him in the old Legends stuff lmao.

I'd love a scene in IX where Chewie directly confronts Kylo and has a dialogue with him, even though Adam Driver would have to repeat back stuff so the audience would understand. Maybe even put 3PO in there since he must have been like a nanny or tutor for Ben.
 

--R

Being sued right now, please help me find a lawyer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,811
They are going to make a second Holiday Special but with porgs. Mark my words.
 

Deleted member 7430

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
897
Just catching up this morning. Shit here gets wild at 1am, wow.
But now people are arguing about whether or not they could personally write better movies than JJ/Rian/Kasdan, and I just read a post about Rey the Sex Demon.

What are y'all passing around this morning?



If you're just looking for a quick summary of various common complaints on era, that would be:
-The humor didn't land for a lot of people.
-The casino section was a waste of time.
-Concern and confusion over Holdo's unexplained asshattery.
-Dropping the Snoke plot thread without closure.
-Many people disagree with the direction taken with Luke.
-Retreading of character development.
-Rose being underdeveloped or awkward (or CGI?!).
-Some people didn't like Leia's force scene.
-A lot of fanfiction not coming true, mostly about Luke not hacking a bunch of people up or Rey not being a Kenobi or whatever shit.

Do keep in mind that I don't necessarily agree with everything I listed.

My take:

Humor landed. From the beginning of VIII, Luke was playing the old Yoda roll. What's a lightsaber when you can project yourself and physically attack from a galaxy far away. I believe Luke is dead, but passing up the chance to pop in naked, and smiling, in ep. 9 would be too good to pass up. C'mon JJ. Do it!

Casino section: it was nice to see the corruption and greed of lands the Empire controlled. It was a stark contrast of the goofiness and innocence that was Jar Jar Binks and his planet, which is why also thought Jar Jar worked.

Snoke: That scene with him and the guards was badass. I think the whole Snoke thing was set up so we could see those guards in action. I love the fact that they're focusing more on Storm Troopers, the generals. What it also does is set up a war within the bad guys for who has control— Kylo or Hux.

Luke's direction: Again, after failing like Kenobi to raise Anakin right, he became a recluse, kooky. Seems just about right. "Well, people aren't listening to my shit, fuck it, I'm going to an island. Leave me alone."

Leia continuation: Only thing I can think of for ep. 9 is to say after Luke disappeared, she disappeared shortly thereafter.

Leia force scene: Pretty cool. How else do you make someone who is a spitting image of my old mother in law look powerful and with the force. Its hard to make granny look cool. Leia frickin floats. And the force within her was always more passive than other people with the force.

Rose: Again, great character. But at times, she felt like a game character. Maybe it was the environment blur around her at times felt like a cut scene from Mass Effect or Horizon Zero Dawn. She was a mix of Mechanica from arms and smile face meme from Mass Effect Andomeda, wearing Marios snow outfit from Odyssey. I love the character, but it felt like CGI from the prequels whenever she was in it.

Order of best to worst:

1. Still, Empire Strikes Back
2. Return of the Jedi
3. Last Jedi
4. Force Awakens
5. Rogue One
6. A New Hope
7. Phantom Menace
8. Clone Wars
9. The one where Anakin becomes Darth Vader. Absolute BS of how they just slapped a helmet on Anakin and he becomes Vader. There was supposed to be a lot screaming as tubes plugged into him and he became more robot. So horrible, I can't even remember the name of Ep. 3. Thank God Rogue One had Vader soaking in the tube scene, to show he still feels pain from being burned on that volcano planet.
 

Deleted member 7430

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
897
Chewie got the best out of them all in this sequel trilogy, didn't he? I literally love everything about him in these. From taking the avenging shot for his best friend, being the one that blew up the middle of Starkiller Base, got to see and speak with all his old friends, taking us through that great trench run in Last Jedi all by himself.

Especially considering they just dropped a moon on him in the old Legends stuff lmao.

Yup, Chewie will be in Ep. 9. His death will be the hardest to take. Please don't kill Chewie in 9!
 

roflwaffles

Member
Oct 30, 2017
4,138
Is it ever explained how the First Order got so big? I felt it was jarring in VII that we were essentially back to IV with this massive military force as the bad guys hunting down the resistance.
 
Oct 28, 2017
6,244
The Empire isn't defeated though. There are many ranking members of The Empire that still have plenty of forces under their direct control. The reality of such a situation is that now Rebels become New Republic who then fight Empire splinter groups that use the same power structure, equipment, tactics, rankings, etc.. as The Empire who will either continue to use The Empire in name or rebrand. Like say... The First Order.
After the two most despotic Sith leaders in the galaxy were dispatched by the last Jedi and the second Death Star was destroyed? They cut the head off of the snake. They destroyed the galaxy's most deadly space station for the second time. I'd argue that enthusiasm for whatever the Empire -- at that point-- was selling would wane after that, and I'd argue that the rebels would have gained support. The galaxy was ruled by fear. That fear was eliminated at the end of ROTJ. That should have changed the arc of the galaxy and its inhabitants. TFA tells us this is not the case. That never sat well with me given the construct of the three movies prior.

This is why I have such a hard time with the starting point of TFA. It never made a lot of sense to me.
 

SolVanderlyn

I love pineapple on pizza!
Member
Oct 28, 2017
13,512
Earth, 21st Century
Is it ever explained how the First Order got so big? I felt it was jarring in VII that we were essentially back to IV with this massive military force as the bad guys hunting down the resistance.
I'm no lore expert on the current EU, but I know that the remnants of the empire worked behind the scenes to undermine the New Republic from the moment it fell, pulling off moves like leaking Leia as the daughter of Darth Vader, causing her to have to step down from politics completely. Also some super powerful outer rim dude named Snoke showed up and helped them out, but, we all know that much

As far as I know, most of the gaps aren't currently filled in and probably won't be until IX is out. If I were a writer for the EU I'd be afraid to make any huge ties, too. Who knows what will or will not be explained in IX?
 

StuBurns

Self Requested Ban
Banned
Nov 12, 2017
7,273
That's now what I'd call an explanation.
I never get this debate.

Why does the end of RotJ make people think that the Empire are just done? Yeah, they took out a Deathstar, they did that a few years earlier, and it appeared to have no meaningful impact whatsoever. The Emperor and his apprentice died, but just like TLJ, that would just cause a power vacuum that someone else is going to take over. In ANH, it's not even Vader that's the real antagonist, it's Tarkin. He is clearly above Vader, and he blows up an entire planet. Vader basically just kills Obi-Wan, and yeah, for the viewer that's a more affecting crime, but if there are Tarkin-esque senior non-Force figures within the Empire, it's not hard at all to believe the death of the Emperor wasn't a death blow to the Empire.
 

DigitalOp

Member
Nov 16, 2017
9,296
Just saw this on Twitter, good stuff:

DSJddh2W4AANyuF.jpg

Rouge One really doesn't have to be there
 

Jest

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,565
After the two most despotic Sith leaders in the galaxy were dispatched by the last Jedi and the second Death Star was destroyed? They cut the head off of the snake. They destroyed the galaxy's most deadly space station for the second time. I'd argue that enthusiasm for whatever the Empire -- at that point-- was selling would wane after that, and I'd argue that the rebels would have gained support. The galaxy was ruled by fear. That fear was eliminated at the end of ROTJ. That should have changed the arc of the galaxy and its inhabitants. TFA tells us this is not the case. That never sat well with me given the construct of the three movies prior.

This is why I have such a hard time with the starting point of TFA. It never made a lot of sense to me.

This is not how it humans work, ever. Even the old EU saw Luke/Leia/Han and The New Republic battling splinter forces of The Empire for decades after ROTJ. The reality is that in an organization as dark as The Empire, the most ruthless and dangerous despots are the ones who rise within the ranks. These types of men are not going to just say, "Aw damn. Palpatine and Vader are gone, I guess we should just give up the power we've gained over the years and become moisture farmers." These are 'Might is Right' types and they are far more likely to use the military power they have (which is still massive even without Death Stars) to secure and shore up territory they control and seek to expand their influence/control over time. Organizations like The Empire are not a Snake. They are a Hydra.
 

PanzerKraken

Member
Nov 1, 2017
15,033
I'm no lore expert on the current EU, but I know that the remnants of the empire worked behind the scenes to undermine the New Republic from the moment it fell, pulling off moves like leaking Leia as the daughter of Darth Vader, causing her to have to step down from politics completely. Also some super powerful outer rim dude named Snoke showed up and helped them out, but, we all know that much

As far as I know, most of the gaps aren't currently filled in and probably won't be until IX is out. If I were a writer for the EU I'd be afraid to make any huge ties, too. Who knows what will or will not be explained in IX?

Lot of it is spelt out in the EU outside of Snoke which no one has touched yet, even the movies!

As things were going bad for the Empire and after project cinder was stopped (The Emperor's stupid Empire suicide plan), bunch of high ranking Imperials gathered as much resources they could, ships, wealth, personnel, and took the Empire off to hide in the edges of uncharted outer rim space. Being a full military operation, the Empire created its own society, a military junta that became the First Order. They spend the 30 some years building up their forces in secret away from the Galactic Republic. Other sources also show how the FO was paying for slavers and pirates to essentially kidnap children for profit. These children then had their identities erased and raised as numbers and fed nothing but anti Republic propaganda for decades to create their armies of Storm Troopers and such. TLJ hints at slavery also involved. While the Republic disarmed the Rebellion, and like the Republic of old, had no standing military outside of some defense and police forces. Individual members of the Republic are responsible for their own protection and military support. The Old Republic had the Jedi as their peace keepers, so kinda short sighted for the New Republic to do away with it's military when it had no peace keeping force at all anymore.

How Snoke and the Knights of Ren all factor into the FO is a mystery no one has touched upon though.
 

zoukka

Game Developer
Verified
Oct 28, 2017
2,361
Weird. The "canteen" scene in TFA has just the right mood (never mind the trash character Maz). Practical effects everywhere, puppets, grime, robots the vistas... it all feels authentic and just as good as the OG trilogy.

Then the casino in TLJ goes full prequel trilogy with the abundance of CGI and uninspired designs (I realise it's supposed to be a rich place).

Feels like a complete different set designer work.

Watching TFA again it reminds me that the biggest flaw in the new trilogy are Rey and Finn or more importantly their lack of interesting personality traits. Rey is completely omnipotent in both piloting ships, fighting even without any training and of course her pure good intentions. Finn is just there to connect the average joe to this fantasy world. Solo had a similar role in the OG trilogy but had tons of character.
 

SolVanderlyn

I love pineapple on pizza!
Member
Oct 28, 2017
13,512
Earth, 21st Century
Lot of it is spelt out in the EU outside of Snoke which no one has touched yet, even the movies!

As things were going bad for the Empire and after project cinder was stopped (The Emperor's stupid Empire suicide plan), bunch of high ranking Imperials gathered as much resources they could, ships, wealth, personnel, and took the Empire off to hide in the edges of uncharted outer rim space. Being a full military operation, the Empire created its own society, a military junta that became the First Order. They spend the 30 some years building up their forces in secret away from the Galactic Republic. Other sources also show how the FO was paying for slavers and pirates to essentially kidnap children for profit. These children then had their identities erased and raised as numbers and fed nothing but anti Republic propaganda for decades to create their armies of Storm Troopers and such. TLJ hints at slavery also involved. While the Republic disarmed the Rebellion, and like the Republic of old, had no standing military outside of some defense and police forces. Individual members of the Republic are responsible for their own protection and military support. The Old Republic had the Jedi as their peace keepers, so kinda short sighted for the New Republic to do away with it's military when it had no peace keeping force at all anymore.

How Snoke and the Knights of Ren all factor into the FO is a mystery no one has touched upon though.
Ah, thanks for clearing that up! I need to read the comics/books at some point.

(By the way, there's a huge Star Wars sale on Comixology right now - just a PSA)

Still have no idea who Snoke is.....
Snoke is YOUR MOM
 

Ushojax

Member
Oct 30, 2017
5,932
Yup, Chewie will be in Ep. 9. His death will be the hardest to take. Please don't kill Chewie in 9!

They should never kill Chewie and the droids. They are like the family pet and heirlooms of the Sstar Wars series, you can retire them but no more. Killing R2 is a line that must never be crossed.
 

PanzerKraken

Member
Nov 1, 2017
15,033
Weird. The "canteen" scene in TFA has just the right mood (never mind the trash character Maz). Practical effects everywhere, puppets, grime, robots the vistas... it all feels authentic and just as good as the OG trilogy.

Then the casino in TLJ goes full prequel trilogy with the abundance of CGI and uninspired designs (I realise it's supposed to be a rich place).

Feels like a complete different set designer work.

Watching TFA again it reminds me that the biggest flaw in the new trilogy are Rey and Finn or more importantly their lack of interesting personality traits. Rey is completely omnipotent in both piloting ships, fighting even without any training and of course her pure good intentions. Finn is just there to connect the average joe to this fantasy world. Solo had a similar role in the OG trilogy but had tons of character.

Rogue One was the same, dirty, practical effects and costumes. Everything about Jedah looked and felt old school and real also, and then Canto goes full on prequel.
 
Oct 25, 2017
10,326
Porgs are cute, but Chewie didn't give a fuck when he roasted a porg into chicken dinner. Porgs could still beat the entire First Order with their adorableness. Kylo would be like, fuck the fighting. I got a Porg!

The FO would be crushed under the Porg reproduction rate, in two days they already had nests with hatched young in the Falcon. Imagine them getting into a dreadnaught, the ship would be overrun in a week.
 

Seeya

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
7,984
Just catching up this morning. Shit here gets wild at 1am, wow.
But now people are arguing about whether or not they could personally write better movies than JJ/Rian/Kasdan, and I just read a post about Rey the Sex Demon.

What are y'all passing around this morning?



If you're just looking for a quick summary of various common complaints on era, that would be:
-The humor didn't land for a lot of people.
-The casino section was a waste of time.
-Concern and confusion over Holdo's unexplained asshattery.
-Dropping the Snoke plot thread without closure.
-Many people disagree with the direction taken with Luke.
-Retreading of character development.
-Rose being underdeveloped or awkward (or CGI?!).
-Some people didn't like Leia's force scene.
-A lot of fanfiction not coming true, mostly about Luke not hacking a bunch of people up or Rey not being a Kenobi or whatever shit.

Do keep in mind that I don't necessarily agree with everything I listed.

massive contrivances from beginning to end - if you break down even the opening scenario with Poe it doesn't make any sense. Why scramble the fighters at all if they were running away? The scene opens with the Dreadnaught already it weapons range of the fleet, and it shoots the base instead of the already in orbit resistance ships because..... because....? Finn happens to meet a resistance janitor that knows all of these things?

Needlessly convoluted plotting - think about how much simpler all of the convoluted mechanics of the chase would have been simplified if they had simply caught the resistance fleet in an Interdiction field? One small example.

Want another way to simplify this mess? Instead of 'hyper space tracking' just have it so that the FO puts trackers in their storm troopers that will sound off when they get close enough. TFO has been using Finn to find the Rebels faster and faster, because the Rebels are still using hyperspace lanes so the FO can reliably estimate where the Rebels are likely to go from one area to the next.

This also meshes better with Finn trying to kill himself on Hoth!

They've slowly been pushing the Resistance into more and more limited areas in terms of paths that the Rebels can use, until they caught them with the Supremacy that has a MASSIVE Interdiction field.


Disregarding cannon when it comes to spaceships:

Speed: smaller ships has never been measurably faster. Even the Falcon couldn't outrun Star Destroyers. The Falcon is remarkable because of how fast it is for its size.



HyperSpace Ram: that's not how hyperspace works. You can't 'ram' into something like that because you enter a different plane all together.

So the resistance will slowly be losing distance to the the bigger and faster FO ships, evacuating the smaller, slower, ships as they start to fall behind. This will be a good visual element as well to show the increasingly crowded and desperate conditions.

THE FIRST ORDER BEING ABLE TO FOLLOW THE RESISTANCE ANYWHERE ALSO PLAYS BETTER WITH HOLDO NOT TELLING POE FOR FEAR THAT THERE MIGHT BE A SPY.

Too many characters to focus on.

Characters rarely struggle or earn victories.

So instead of the whole sideplot being to disable hyperspace tracking, and then having the stupid new 'tracking' and 'cloak' and nonsensical 'cloak scans' with no reason. It is instead a mission to disable the Interdiction field and main reactor of the supremacy.

Instead of breaking hyperspace and how battles should be fought, you get a dramatic scene of an mortally injured Ackbar with a skeleton crew suicide ramming their larger ships into the a temporarily disabled supremacy. The ultimate sacrifice in an attempt to decapitate the FO by destroying their flagship and leaders.

A la but X100



I'm just going to write up the changes I would have made while staying within the framework of this story.