Ra

Rap Genius
Moderator
Oct 27, 2017
12,344
Dark Space
Seriously not saying this to stir shit. It's my honest feeling after watching that trailer.

This looks like it could be all I ever wanted when I backed Star Citizen, Star Wars franchise aside.

Holy sheet.
 

Barrel Cannon

It's Pronounced "Aerith"
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
9,390
If I wanted a massive unbalanced space battle with a bunch of humans of ridiculously varying skill levels and littl coordination then I'd just play battlefront. Part of the big appeal of this for me is the power fantasy of being part of an elite squadron doing the heavy lifting in the space battle(which is why I'm happy it's 5v5 and a.i. as fodder because that's way more controllable)
 

MechaX

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,083
God damnit...

This might scratch that itch I've had since X-Wing Alliance. Rogue Squadron and Leader were super good, but not the same as these space battles with power management and stuff. And the battlefront dog fighting did absolutely nothing for me at all.

and crossplay too will pretty much get my childhood friend on board who also loved the x-wing games as a kid
 

Tawpgun

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,861
Got a couple concerns about the game based on what I read.

1. Despite it being a PvP game, the factions are not equal. For instance, a TIE Interceptor is not just a reskinned A Wing. In the lore, TIE's do not have shields. So they won't even have the option to get them in game. Now, if the game modes as asymmetrical in that its attack/defend or something this can work a la Rainbow Six Siege having different operators for offense and Defense. But in a straight TDM I think its hard to balance the differences. I was already getting annoyed how claustrophobic the TIE cockpit is compared to the rebel one. Each faction will have different abilities they can get. Which brings me to my next concern.

2. Unlocks galore. Anyone who has played Battlefield V or any BF game really, knows how for someone who doesn't play much or is just starting out... Your plane will be DOGSHIT. Fully upgraded planes can absolutely TEAR but when you get a good angle on an enemy plane it feels like you don't do as much damage. Because you don't. In BF the upgrades can be straight up MORE damage. ie 4x guns instead of 2x. Now, in this game they said they don't do that. You won't have 4x lasers when someone has 2x. But all their upgrades need to be unlocked and are very significant. While your beginner ship might be ok, other players will have much more tools. Who know what will become the loadouts to chase.


Also, you will either love this or hate it based on your opinion of GaaS but part of the reason the price point is lower is because they are not designing this with DLC and live service in mind. They mentioned its an old school feel in that the game you pay for is what you get. They said at the time no content additions are planned but that could change.
 
Oct 27, 2017
6,348
2. Unlocks galore. Anyone who has played Battlefield V or any BF game really, knows how for someone who doesn't play much or is just starting out... Your plane will be DOGSHIT. Fully upgraded planes can absolutely TEAR but when you get a good angle on an enemy plane it feels like you don't do as much damage. Because you don't. In BF the upgrades can be straight up MORE damage. ie 4x guns instead of 2x. Now, in this game they said they don't do that. You won't have 4x lasers when someone has 2x. But all their upgrades need to be unlocked and are very significant. While your beginner ship might be ok, other players will have much more tools. Who know what will become the loadouts to chase.

This game is not made by Dice. There will not be such nonsense as with the planes in past BF titles.
 

Tawpgun

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,861
This game is not made by Dice. There will not be such nonsense as with the planes in past BF titles.
Still EA and from what we know you DO have to unlock upgrades. Do I think it will be as bad as DICE unlocks? I don't think so. But I do think you may struggle off the bat if you come in to the game late.

Really hoping for a Beta
 
Last edited:

Hutchie

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,606
Am i the only one who was hoping for more of a Rouge Squadron take on the single player content??. Kind of like the replayability of the Rogue Squadron games over a traditional single player story

No you are not! Im just gonna pray that they get re-released like some other star wars games have been
 

Rookhelm

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,704
I think the folks saying this is going to be TIE Fighter 2.0 in terms of single player need to temper their expectations a bit. The focus here is on Multiplayer dogfight battles.
 

mutantmagnet

Member
Oct 28, 2017
12,401
I was trying to find this picture because the super diverse Empire in the Disney Era is kinda weird.
Only if you watch the original movies. I read the various books and they made it a point that the Empire is pro humanity anti xenos. It's not unreasonable to find it weird to see different ethnicities representing the empire because the original movies are a product of their time but it should become easier to accept the Empire is still very much racist and scarily authoritarian but this has been clarified after the movies to be racist against different species.


The Empire also has certain structural policy issues with droids that the books get into but since the game doesn't touch on them I'll just leave it at that.
 

Deleted member 135

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
11,682
Im confused. You are shaming something that fixes what BF2 failed at? Bots and a usable first person mode was a big ask from past games and now we have it.
I've always hated bots in pvp multiplayer. Always. Its one reason why I dislike Capital Supremacy in SWBF2.

Also a usable first person view doesn't preclude having a functional third person view.
 

Tawpgun

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,861
Uuh 3rd person mode will give a competitive edge just like in Battlefront. If its in nobody will use 1st person mode and the game is designed around the cockpit.
Yep.

It's a central part of the games design. This isn't your after thought dogfighting metagame like it is in Battlefield or Battlefront. It's from the ground up first person.

So much so that it looks to have very minimal "game" HUD. You rely on Cockpit display
 

Deleted member 56306

User-requested account closure
Banned
Apr 26, 2019
2,383
Only if you watch the original movies. I read the various books and they made it a point that the Empire is pro humanity anti xenos. It's not unreasonable to find it weird to see different ethnicities representing the empire because the original movies are a product of their time but it should become easier to accept the Empire is still very much racist and scarily authoritarian but this has been clarified after the movies to be racist against different species.


The Empire also has certain structural policy issues with droids that the books get into but since the game doesn't touch on them I'll just leave it at that.

It's not an in-universe weirdness, it's that for the most part the Empire was portrayed as very white and, to a lesser degree, male in various bits of the expanded universe. Now I'm sure a part of it was just that diversifying the universe wasn't really an active focus of Lucasfilm during that period of the EU, but most of the notable faces of the Empire (Outside of Thrawn) were notably white dudes. I'm sure there were exceptions as you get in like 30 odd years of canon but generally they were pretty white. I'm trying to find Legends Era Imperials that weren't white and its a little difficult, though I'm sure they exist. Now, however it's significantly easier.

It doesn't necessarily erase the allusions to nazism to have a more noticeably diverse empire but it does feel a little strange just how much they are changing that visual socio/political aspect of the Empire.
 

Dr. Mario

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
14,042
Netherlands
Got a couple concerns about the game based on what I read.

1. Despite it being a PvP game, the factions are not equal. For instance, a TIE Interceptor is not just a reskinned A Wing. In the lore, TIE's do not have shields. So they won't even have the option to get them in game. Now, if the game modes as asymmetrical in that its attack/defend or something this can work a la Rainbow Six Siege having different operators for offense and Defense. But in a straight TDM I think its hard to balance the differences. I was already getting annoyed how claustrophobic the TIE cockpit is compared to the rebel one. Each faction will have different abilities they can get. Which brings me to my next concern.

2. Unlocks galore. Anyone who has played Battlefield V or any BF game really, knows how for someone who doesn't play much or is just starting out... Your plane will be DOGSHIT. Fully upgraded planes can absolutely TEAR but when you get a good angle on an enemy plane it feels like you don't do as much damage. Because you don't. In BF the upgrades can be straight up MORE damage. ie 4x guns instead of 2x. Now, in this game they said they don't do that. You won't have 4x lasers when someone has 2x. But all their upgrades need to be unlocked and are very significant. While your beginner ship might be ok, other players will have much more tools. Who know what will become the loadouts to chase.


Also, you will either love this or hate it based on your opinion of GaaS but part of the reason the price point is lower is because they are not designing this with DLC and live service in mind. They mentioned its an old school feel in that the game you pay for is what you get. They said at the time no content additions are planned but that could change.
1. Don't think they actually cared about that in the older Tie Fighter games.

star-wars-x-wing-vs-tie-fighter-balance-of-power-campaigns_7.jpg


2. I don't get it. The price point is lower because they're not going to monetize it? That doesn't make any sense. All the talk of customizations 100% means monetization to me.
 

Klyka

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,754
Germany
Got a couple concerns about the game based on what I read.

1. Despite it being a PvP game, the factions are not equal. For instance, a TIE Interceptor is not just a reskinned A Wing. In the lore, TIE's do not have shields. So they won't even have the option to get them in game. Now, if the game modes as asymmetrical in that its attack/defend or something this can work a la Rainbow Six Siege having different operators for offense and Defense. But in a straight TDM I think its hard to balance the differences. I was already getting annoyed how claustrophobic the TIE cockpit is compared to the rebel one. Each faction will have different abilities they can get. Which brings me to my next concern.

2. Unlocks galore. Anyone who has played Battlefield V or any BF game really, knows how for someone who doesn't play much or is just starting out... Your plane will be DOGSHIT. Fully upgraded planes can absolutely TEAR but when you get a good angle on an enemy plane it feels like you don't do as much damage. Because you don't. In BF the upgrades can be straight up MORE damage. ie 4x guns instead of 2x. Now, in this game they said they don't do that. You won't have 4x lasers when someone has 2x. But all their upgrades need to be unlocked and are very significant. While your beginner ship might be ok, other players will have much more tools. Who know what will become the loadouts to chase.


Also, you will either love this or hate it based on your opinion of GaaS but part of the reason the price point is lower is because they are not designing this with DLC and live service in mind. They mentioned its an old school feel in that the game you pay for is what you get. They said at the time no content additions are planned but that could change.
read this entire interview
www.polygon.com

Star Wars: Squadrons — everything you need to know

A deep dive into the game EA calls the ‘definitive’ Star Wars flight experience
 
Oct 25, 2017
343
It's not an in-universe weirdness, it's that for the most part the Empire was portrayed as very white and, to a lesser degree, male in various bits of the expanded universe. Now I'm sure a part of it was just that diversifying the universe wasn't really an active focus of Lucasfilm during that period of the EU, but most of the notable faces of the Empire (Outside of Thrawn) were notably white dudes. I'm sure there were exceptions as you get in like 30 odd years of canon but generally they were pretty white. I'm trying to find Legends Era Imperials that weren't white and its a little difficult, though I'm sure they exist. Now, however it's significantly easier.

It doesn't necessarily erase the allusions to nazism to have a more noticeably diverse empire but it does feel a little strange just how much they are changing that visual socio/political aspect of the Empire.

Yeah, I think it is a bit sketchy, and it's part of the problem with making groups like the Empire or Germany in WWII playable factions at all. The instinct then becomes to portray that faction in a more sympathetic or even heroic manner, and I don't think sympathetic portrayals of either regular Nazis or Space Nazis is a thing the world really needs.
 

Nome

Designer / Self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,312
NYC
Damn they really nailed the sense of speed. This looks insane.
 

WillyFive

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
6,992
I've always hated bots in pvp multiplayer. Always. Its one reason why I dislike Capital Supremacy in SWBF2.

Also a usable first person view doesn't preclude having a functional third person view.

The lack of bots is what makes the starfighter modes in Battlefront 2 unplayable most times of the day.

Having to wait on an empty lobby until there are enough players to start kills the game. People aren't gonna wait, they just exit. Having bots fixes this.

And this game was made around 1st person. You add 3rd person, it makes 1st person obsolete. It's why no one uses first person mode on BF2 unless it's their first time playing.
 

flyinj

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,028
Did anyone get the vibe that the single player is going to be glorified tutorials?

Some of the wording was a little worrisome, in particular "You'll start by playing single player missions". Which could imply that they are prerequisite tutorials before playing multiplayer.
 

louris

Member
Oct 27, 2017
409
I wish there is a proper campaign ala Rogue Squadron I and II with tailor-made missions instead of multiplayer maps with objectives. A man can dream, but it seems unlikely at that price point.
 

Klyka

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,754
Germany
Did anyone get the vibe that the single player are going to be glorified tutorials?

Some of the wording was a little worrisome, in particular "You'll start by playing single player missions". Which could imply that they are prerequisite tutorials before playing multiplayer.
The campaign is not prerequisite. In an interview they said you start after the destruction of Alderaan in a prologue and make your characters. Then there is a bit of prologue gameplay and then they set you free to play multiplayer or singleplayer however you want.

I wish there is a proper campaign ala Rogue Squadron I and II with tailor-made missions instead of multiplayer maps with objectives. A man can dream, but it seems unlikely at that price point.

The singleplayer campaign is like that, it just won't be very long
 

Sargerus

▲ Legend ▲
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
20,955
They really need to clarify if there will be post-launch support. It's the only thing preventing me from buying this game.
 

Deleted member 135

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
11,682
Uuh 3rd person mode will give a competitive edge just like in Battlefront. If its in nobody will use 1st person mode and the game is designed around the cockpit.
VR gives a competitive edge already. It's space, its not like you have corners to peak around. The advantage for third-person is vastly overstated.
 

CountAntonio

Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,884
They really need to clarify if there will be post-launch support. It's the only thing preventing me from buying this game.
It's not built as a GAAS but they said updates are not off the table. If this game sells extremely well it would be baffling not to have more content especially since a lot of progression is based on cosmetic skins. Given how much shit EA has gotten over it's awful microtransactions in Battlefront it was probably a wise move to not bill this as a Microtrasaction fest.

Also the official website has a lot of info about the maps and fighters. Example:
TIE/LN FIGHTER
Manufacturer: Sienar Fleet Systems

The standard starfighter of the Imperial Navy, the TIE (Twin Ion Engine) fighter is sturdy (despite a lack of deflector shields), faster, and more agile than its Rebel X-wing counterpart, and versatile enough to serve in multiple roles. Its speed, maneuverability, tiny silhouette, and good forward visibility give it an edge in a dogfight, while its armor and payload options make it useful against enemy capital ships as well.

Starfighter
Class
Fighter

Maneuverability
Medium

Firepower
Medium

Armor
Medium

Shields
None

Silhouette
Harder to see and hit from front or rear, easier to see and hit from the sides.

Cockpit visibility
Excellent forward visibility, including below the horizon line, but all other directions are mostly occluded. There are small viewports in the access hatch and the aft bulkhead, but the views are limited.
 

Tawpgun

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,861
read this entire interview
www.polygon.com

Star Wars: Squadrons — everything you need to know

A deep dive into the game EA calls the ‘definitive’ Star Wars flight experience

Yeah that's the interview that made me concerned. Every dev says it will be balanced and whatnot but it's hard in practice. In battlefront I remember the A wings being so heads and shoulders above the other crafts so the rebels almost always won in the dog fight modes.


VR gives a competitive edge already. It's space, its not like you have corners to peak around. The advantage for third-person is vastly overstated.

Are you serious? This is like playing an FPS where one person can use a 120 fov and the other is limited to 40

You can track objects and fighters so much easier when you can see more.
 

CountAntonio

Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,884
Can't you only play with VR against other VR users?
Yeah that's the interview that made me concerned. Every dev says it will be balanced and whatnot but it's hard in practice. In battlefront I remember the A wings being so heads and shoulders above the other crafts so the rebels almost always won in the dog fight modes.

Are you serious? This is like playing an FPS where one person can use a 120 fov and the other is limited to 40

You can track objects and fighters so much easier when you can see more.

They covered this in a video interview. basically he said VR is very distracting and that on it's own kind of levels the playing field. Same with TIE having only forward visibility that in playtesting people felt more dialed in VS using a rebel ship.

Starts at about 9:30

It a really good interview.
 
Last edited:
Dec 8, 2018
1,911
Seriously not saying this to stir shit. It's my honest feeling after watching that trailer.

This looks like it could be all I ever wanted when I backed Star Citizen, Star Wars franchise aside.

Holy sheet.

I mean it's basically what the single player part of SC was supposed to be and it's a shame a 300 million budget and 8 years and still this out of nowhere is looking better and more polished.
 

4Tran

Member
Nov 4, 2017
1,531
Yeah, I think it is a bit sketchy, and it's part of the problem with making groups like the Empire or Germany in WWII playable factions at all. The instinct then becomes to portray that faction in a more sympathetic or even heroic manner, and I don't think sympathetic portrayals of either regular Nazis or Space Nazis is a thing the world really needs.
Check out the original TIE Fighter. You play as an Imperial through the whole game, and while the faction is pretty cool, it doesn't try to pretend that the Empire are the good guys. They get to have all the great perks like the incessant backstabbing, torture, and the opportunity to clear minefields with an unshielded fighter.

VR gives a competitive edge already. It's space, its not like you have corners to peak around. The advantage for third-person is vastly overstated.
I don't see VR as particularly more useful than a hat switch. The big difference is going to be between joysticks and other control schemes.

The game might be tricky to balance, but I don't think the shield/no shield paradigm is some sort of impossible obstacle. The harder thing might be the balance between the different classes since TIE Interceptors are usually better than TIE Fighters in every conceivable way.

I mean it's basically what the single player part of SC was supposed to be and it's a shame a 300 million budget and 8 years and still this out of nowhere is looking better and more polished.
Yeah, it's amazing what you can do if you don't let mission creep get in the way.
 

Kharnete

Has Hecht’s Number
Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,960
I mean it's basically what the single player part of SC was supposed to be and it's a shame a 300 million budget and 8 years and still this out of nowhere is looking better and more polished.

Nah, the single player part of SC (the thing for which I backed it back in the day) was (is, I hope) going to be a full-fledged single player campaign a la X-wing or Wing Commander series with a gazillion missions. The campaign here will probably pale in comparison to those, either by length or complexity. Probably both.

And that's alright, the focus has always been in the multiplayer.
 

Z0mbicide

Banned
Nov 5, 2017
35
I don't know why they're being cagey about any DLC. You're telling me this game will only have 8 ships for the entire life cycle when they've already used new ship designs from Rogue One?

I'd feel a lot better if I knew they had more ships post-launch, even if the price point is like $20-30 for a set of ships plus their entire cosmetic and in-game upgrade tracks.
 

Astro Cat

Member
Mar 29, 2019
7,745
Damn this looks so much better than I thought it would. So happy it has single player with both sides. It gave me heavy Tie Fighter vibes which I love. I wish I could be as excited about PSVR but until I see how sick it makes me I'm very cautious. Either way, it looks great so far
 

CountAntonio

Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,884
I don't know why they're being cagey about any DLC. You're telling me this game will only have 8 ships for the entire life cycle when they've already used new ship designs from Rogue One?

I'd feel a lot better if I knew they had more ships post-launch, even if the price point is like $20-30 for a set of ships plus their entire cosmetic and in-game upgrade tracks.
6 maps 8 ships in a MP focused game. I really doubt they will drop it and just be done especially if it sells very well. The cosmetics are already in place with pilot, helmets, ship skins along with emotes and voice lines. It would just be baffling not to capitalize on this later.
 

Tawpgun

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,861
They covered this in a video interview. basically he said VR is very distracting and that on it's own kind of levels the playing field. Same with TIE having only forward visibility that in playtesting people felt more dialed in VS using a rebel ship.

Starts at about 9:30

It a really good interview.
He basically touched on a lot of what the Polygon thing said but there is one thing he said I kind of think was BS.

Essentially, because TIE's don't have shields... you don't have to manage them and that is an advantage itself. Who knows how the hit points to the hull will work but this seems like an issue for beginner players. Good players would seemingly always want shields.

Very interested to see how balanced this will be or if it will fall into the "this ship/weapon/faction is clearly better"

It's why I would love a beta of like 1 map on the 5v5 mode.
 

CountAntonio

Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,884
He basically touched on a lot of what the Polygon thing said but there is one thing he said I kind of think was BS.

Essentially, because TIE's don't have shields... you don't have to manage them and that is an advantage itself. Who knows how the hit points to the hull will work but this seems like an issue for beginner players. Good players would seemingly always want shields.

Very interested to see how balanced this will be or if it will fall into the "this ship/weapon/faction is clearly better"

It's why I would love a beta of like 1 map on the 5v5 mode.
Yeah we won't really know till enough people get their hands on it.