Exactly, I have nothing against Cameron IRL but for some reason I can''t stand his face in-game.
Exactly, I have nothing against Cameron IRL but for some reason I can''t stand his face in-game.
Force Unleashed can be janky too but it'"s much more epic and memorable.
I actually really like that Cal looks like some kind of lovable dork and not a perfect super model with a perfectly mirrored face. i find that more interesting compared to your usual grizzled manly man protagonists ...
his animations and portrayal of stress/ caution were also really well done. when you enter the ship Mantis during the opening you can really feel how tense he is due to what occured earlier
his animations and portrayal of stress/ caution were also really well done. when you enter the ship Mantis during the opening you can really feel how tense he is due to what occured earlier
I remember back when the industry kept saying that Nathan Drake is an "everyman regular guy" when he looks like this:
Cal is definitely a dork who loves being a jedi who is also haunted by his childhood trauma. Not as quippy as Nathan Drake or even your usual SW protagonist but also they keenly avoided the stoic manly man vibe that you see in characters like Sam Porter Bridges or Geralt. The actor has even gone so far as to say that out of all the characters he's played, Cal is the one who resembles his real life personality the most.
I don't see how anything you typed countered my points, they're more like excuses for the poor narrative and characterization. First, the narrative is NOT about them "helping in small ways." These fools get involved in the galactic conflict right from the start, one of the largests arcs is Kashyyyk where they help free the planet from the Empire's grips. That's not a "small" thing, they aren't rescuing a baby and returning it to its mother. They aren't disposing of a small, local crime lord that rules a town. They are straight up fighting in the galactic war and facing off against Sith Inquisitors. As I stated before, this makes for a poor narrative since we know they will ultimately fail in their mission and doesn't help support their characterizations.
Second, is the complete lack of growth. Character's don't develop, they just declare, suddenly, that they've changed. Cal is a fugitive at the start, reluctant to fight the Empire and wincing at being called a Jedi, a title he feels he doesn't deserve. The very next mission, after this crew of strangers rescues him, he's like, "okay, let's save the galaxy. I'm ready to be a Jedi, hold on let me bust out my lightsaber." I do honestly believe that they intended Cal to be a fugitive in hiding longer and ended up cutting it for time, but intent matters not only the execution. Cal go from 0-100 in the span of a single, tutorial mission. He's immediately all about rebuilding the Order from the very start and doesn't question it until FAR later. And, nearly every other character is the same. Grizz just declares their family, even if you've never spoken to this dude before.
Ceres at least has an actual arc, even if it is painfully predictable and lacking any subtly.
But, her arc feels like there was supposed to be a twist that got changed or cut. Ceres stopped being a Jedi because she got tortured and eventually gave up the location of her padawan who they then found and turned into an Inquisitor. And, upon seeing this, she taps into the Dark Side and wastes everyone in the room. Okay? That's her big secret? That's it. What's hilarious and perplexing is the game, again lacking any subtly, has to tell you this twice. First, Ceres tells you this in painstaking detail. But apparently the game didn't think that was enough as we are shown a flashback later on upon touching Trilla's saber which shows EXACTLY what Ceres told you. I was expecting a twist, some new perspective, but it's EXACTLY what she told you happened. Which had me dying of laughter when Cal was like, "I understand now Ceres." Dude, were you even paying attention just hours earlier when she told you all of this? Still, at least Ceres has an arc.
Now, you might say Cal has some arc as he learns to accept being a Jedi and then decides not to rebuild the Order. But no,
Cal is a Jedi from the very start. He immediately accepts the title and mission. That he must later confront his failings during Order 66 is not an arc, not when the game starts with him ready to join the cause. And, the final decision is, once again, hilarious in its lack of subtly. At the very least, Cal's decision to not rebuild the Order could have been the capstone on all the adventures they experienced on this quest. You see, there is one moment during Kashyyyk in which the game nearly becomes aware of a larger theme. It's a brief exchange between Cal and BD-1 that seems almost like a throwaway line. But, could've been so much more. When you return to Kashyyyk, Cal questions whether they've actually helped the planet as their intervention only brought the eye of the Empire even further down upon the planet. Saw abandoned the planet once the Empire came with backup as we see he only cares about the big fight and not the little people caught in the mess. And, the Wookies are left to fend for themselves. It should make you question whether anything you're doing is actually helping. But nope, Cal brushes this brief moment of reflection off and continues to believe they are helping.
Back to the final decision, it's laughable in how much it robs Cal of growth and helping support a larger theme that almost revealed itself on Kashyyyk. Cal doesn't rebuild the Jedi Order because he has a vision in which the future Order is discovered by the Empire and everyone is wiped out and Cal falls to the Dark Side. I say again, Cal doesn't rebuild the Order because he has a LITERAL VISION OF THE FUTURE. No, he doesn't choose to forgo rebuilding the past based on the experiences attempting to help the Wookies that only caused more harm. He's not choosing this based on everything he witnessed throughout the game. Nah, he had a literal vision that had to straight up show him what happened if he rebuilt the Order. That's not a character growing moment, that's a character being shown the future, having to literally be led to the correct choice.
Back to the final decision, it's laughable in how much it robs Cal of growth and helping support a larger theme that almost revealed itself on Kashyyyk. Cal doesn't rebuild the Jedi Order because he has a vision in which the future Order is discovered by the Empire and everyone is wiped out and Cal falls to the Dark Side. I say again, Cal doesn't rebuild the Order because he has a LITERAL VISION OF THE FUTURE. No, he doesn't choose to forgo rebuilding the past based on the experiences attempting to help the Wookies that only caused more harm. He's not choosing this based on everything he witnessed throughout the game. Nah, he had a literal vision that had to straight up show him what happened if he rebuilt the Order. That's not a character growing moment, that's a character being shown the future, having to literally be led to the correct choice.
Lastly, I stand by the point that the character's are not integrated into the gameplay. The fact that they packed them full of optional conversation that you can spam X when you are near them on the ship or just outside the ship doesn't change this fact. The bulk of the game is exploration, if you wanted to pack in character moments you integrate it there. Why should a player return to a planet to walk outside their ship to mash X against a still character to hear some tidbit about them?
SIDE NOTE:
Cal's vision seems to prove once and for all that the future can be changed. I know that Yoda says the future is always in motion. But some fans have believed that he's not right, that the future is set and every vision just shows an aspect of the future which is often misinterpreted. For example, Rey sees Kylo turn, Kylo sees Rey turn. Both are ultimately correct, they're just viewing different moments of the same event. Thus, some people use this as proof the future can't be changed. I've never bought that and Fallen Order seems to solidify this as we're shown a future where Cal attempts to rebuild The Order, fails, gets everyone killed, and becomes an Inquisitor. He chooses not to follow this path. So, unless he does choose to rebuild the Order in the near future, it seems he successfully changed the future.
To add to BossAttack's points, it depicts tapping into the dark side of the force in the way I hate the most. Because of the distress, Cere taps into the dark side, and mercs everyone in the room, and this presented as a true moment of darkness for her, a rock bottom sort of thing, to the point where she cuts herself off from the force and has a whole identity crisis over it.
But it's not like killing imperial troopers is a bad thing in this game, and it's absurd to suggest that Cere being angry and in despair over her apprentice being tortured is the wrong emotional reaction to have. We spent hours mercing trooper upon trooper, sometimes in really gruesome ways, but her tapping into the dark side is some horrific act.
It comes to a head at the end where they are facing down Darth Vader, who is so strong in the force that it's like someone plucked his Force Unleased version and dropped him in here, and both Cal and Cere are utterly helpless to stop him, and literally the only time that he was slowed down even a little is when Cere tapped into her hatred (which again, her apprentice was tortured and her friends murdered by the empire. I don't think hatred is an unwarranted emotion here). Cere tapping into the dark side is the only reason that Vader didn't just finish them off and take the holocron to go murder/indoctrinate the force kids.
And fucking Cal is like "NO, CERE,YOUR STRONGER THAN THIS" are you fucking real right now
This depiction of the dark side where it's this evil force no matter what context you use it in is absurd. Cal murders stormtroopers all the time. He taps into emotions all the time (like against the Ninth Sister). He acts with the intent to destroy the Empire wherever possible because their desire to subjegate all life in the galaxy is actually evil. But if you tap into the dark side to do it, even though your doing the same thing for the same reasons with the same end result, suddenly it's bad. Not just because the dark side is just this volatile, corrosive force, but because it's framed as morality itself where even if it's the thing saving your life and the lives of others, it's wrong to use.
It's the stupidest interpretation of the force possible and I hate it and I certainly can't connect to Cere's trauma when I cannot buy into the idea that her use of the dark side was wrong when that's how it was done. She wasn't murdering random younglings, all she did was kill off some stormtroopers who tortured her student. Who cares about that? The torture of Trilla is what the focus of her trauma should be, not that she gave into 'anger' to do murder some dudes she approves of murdering anyway.
But it's not like killing imperial troopers is a bad thing in this game, and it's absurd to suggest that Cere being angry and in despair over her apprentice being tortured is the wrong emotional reaction to have. We spent hours mercing trooper upon trooper, sometimes in really gruesome ways, but her tapping into the dark side is some horrific act.
It comes to a head at the end where they are facing down Darth Vader, who is so strong in the force that it's like someone plucked his Force Unleased version and dropped him in here, and both Cal and Cere are utterly helpless to stop him, and literally the only time that he was slowed down even a little is when Cere tapped into her hatred (which again, her apprentice was tortured and her friends murdered by the empire. I don't think hatred is an unwarranted emotion here). Cere tapping into the dark side is the only reason that Vader didn't just finish them off and take the holocron to go murder/indoctrinate the force kids.
And fucking Cal is like "NO, CERE,YOUR STRONGER THAN THIS" are you fucking real right now
This depiction of the dark side where it's this evil force no matter what context you use it in is absurd. Cal murders stormtroopers all the time. He taps into emotions all the time (like against the Ninth Sister). He acts with the intent to destroy the Empire wherever possible because their desire to subjegate all life in the galaxy is actually evil. But if you tap into the dark side to do it, even though your doing the same thing for the same reasons with the same end result, suddenly it's bad. Not just because the dark side is just this volatile, corrosive force, but because it's framed as morality itself where even if it's the thing saving your life and the lives of others, it's wrong to use.
It's the stupidest interpretation of the force possible and I hate it and I certainly can't connect to Cere's trauma when I cannot buy into the idea that her use of the dark side was wrong when that's how it was done. She wasn't murdering random younglings, all she did was kill off some stormtroopers who tortured her student. Who cares about that? The torture of Trilla is what the focus of her trauma should be, not that she gave into 'anger' to do murder some dudes she approves of murdering anyway.
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Um, did you miss the part where
they only helped win the battle and everyone else had to flee as a result of the empire coming back?
Cal isn't reluctant to fight the empire, he just knows he'd be killed if he tried to do it on his own. Someone reluctant to be called a jedi doesn't just carry a fully functioning lightsaber around, they'd do something like...oh Idk, sell their Kyber Crystal and cut themselves off from the force. As I said before, there's a reason Cal stated plainly, "the jedi council" when being rescued, he's been waiting and hoping for a chance like this, he enjoys being a jedi, he enjoyed that life, he just feels guilt over being able to survive due to well, being barely a teenager when Order 66 went down. And throughout the game the more he embraces the force the more he has to confront the emotions that he'd been trying to hold back. And that's the general arc of all the characters
-where they start
-being confronted with something from their past
-new equilibrium and being able to move forward
None of them are perfect ofc,
Cere still can't help but use the darkside
Seeing it first hand is different than hearing about it even in a detailed explanation. The game is all about the rule of threes in the narrative.
Cere-->first hear about her using the darkside from Trilla, she denies it,--->her admitting that it happened when Cal was at his lowest point---->Cal sees it first hand after grabbing Trilla's lightsaber
Greez-->wakes Cal up three times to give him advice
Merrin-->We meet her three times before she stops responding to Cal with open hostility
Greez-->wakes Cal up three times to give him advice
Merrin-->We meet her three times before she stops responding to Cal with open hostility
This is the same series where people receive visions of the future all of the time and base their actions around that. Considering the events he didn't see an exact vision of the future, more like a force vision akin to some of the things Yoda saw, like the one where Dooku was part of the jedi and Quigon was alive. It was a warning more than anything.
This series has always portrayed the dark side and hatred as the wrong way to go about things. Nothing exemplifies this more than Obi-wan Kenobi, who despite all of the shit he's gone through, was never once tempted to go to the darkside. He had full control, now, was he completely emotionless about all of the stuff he went through even though arguably he went through even WORSE?
No, but did he lash out and kill everything in anger? Also No. What's wrong isn't killing imperial stormtroopers who're the aggressors, it's tapping into the darkside and giving into hatred, Cal isn't fighting the empire with hatred in his heart. Cere tapping into the darkside did nothing to stop Vader, he was just letting her go down a rabbit hole she shouldn't be going down before getting the kill, Cal ended up saving them both.
No, but did he lash out and kill everything in anger? Also No. What's wrong isn't killing imperial stormtroopers who're the aggressors, it's tapping into the darkside and giving into hatred, Cal isn't fighting the empire with hatred in his heart. Cere tapping into the darkside did nothing to stop Vader, he was just letting her go down a rabbit hole she shouldn't be going down before getting the kill, Cal ended up saving them both.
It's not portrayed as evil no matter what. Like dude:
We literally end up traveling with a darkside witch who shoots fireballs.
How she uses it however, when she realizes that she was tricked and that she should stop attacking the jedi, is for altruistic purposes, aka the greater good.
We literally end up traveling with a darkside witch who shoots fireballs.
How she uses it however, when she realizes that she was tricked and that she should stop attacking the jedi, is for altruistic purposes, aka the greater good.
This series is just in general never gonna embrace the "grey jedi" fan concept when it comes to it's portrayal of the darkside.
Ding. Ding. Ding.
I get that Dark Side= Bad. But, there are better ways of exploring that without unintentionally reinforcing problematic ideas.
You basically just ignored most of my post to just reassert what the game says and does, just because the game did it doesn't mean it's good.
And I'm saying that's STUPID. Or the specific way they did it is stupid. You don't need to keep bringing up the history of star wars as if that validates the way they did this because the dark side being bad isn't the problem. But this? The way this plot point is framed is basically saying brutally murdering people in serene contempt is okay, but doing it in hatred isn't, and that's just fucking dumb.
I'm noticing this seems to be his standard style of argument.
CE, you keep dancing around addressing the actual points by compensating it with citing historic examples that aren't needed. We all know the content of the story, we just finished playing it, and we all have some degree of SW history here. You don't have to keep posting gifs and videos and images and saying "This is has been established in this part of the franchise." That's not the issue. What you need to do is address the actual points being made here.
Whether the story is good or not (I don't think it is, at least in terms of execution and presentation), it seems very clear to me that it's oddly edited and paced, and that surely they didn't get to do everything they wanted to do due to budget/time constraints. I never thought I'd be saying "needs more cutscenes!" about any game, but in order to successfully land the emotional beats they attempted, they needed more time in cinematics and/or more engaging performances and writing.
That's not, this isn't the witcher or game of thrones where "actually the grey in the middle is always the right answer since every side sucks." This is SW.
How do you not see the difference between arriving on a planet that's under attack/all the natives have been murdered and defending against that and seeing
It's like wondering why blowing up the death star, aka 1.7 million didn't turn or tempt Luke to turn to the darkside, but murdering his father after being provoked would have. The act of murder isn't in and of itself bad in SW. It's the ever changing context that matters.
And in this context
Cere broke and gave into the darkside after succumbing to torture which led to her padawan becoming an inquistor. Now by this point she had already given in and gave up their location. But she hadn't given into the darkside itself. They were still torturing her and instead of killing her they likely wanted her to become one as well, hence showing her something that shook her to her core. The death of the stormtroopers isn't the main issue that was bothering her. It's akin to a vegetarian breaking down and eating meat, it makes you feel sick and like something is wrong.
The point you're making is that you're angry that the portrayal of the darkside lines up with the rest of the series. I'm not dancing around anything. If you interpreted that moment as
Cere is saving us by using the darkside
and not
Cere is literally about to get ALL killed because of her hatred for Vader and/or she's going down a path that's not right just for the sake of killing Vader, even though the outcome is still the same.
then you missed the overall point of why the darkside is portrayed the way it is in SW. It's not just something you tap into for shits and giggles or to become an in the middle gary stu like in Kotor. Am I saying it's the greatest SW story of all time? No. But as a start to a series. Absolutely serviceable as an introduction to the themes, characters, and overall tone. I could genuinely see a trilogy with these characters.
I feel that's quite well done so. Frankly, I don't think you'll ever be satisfied with Disney SW. 🤷♂️ You NEVER seem happy about anything SW related that i'm surprised you haven't come to the conclusion that it's just not your thing even though you grew up with the prequels. But hey it's better than your earlier predictions for the story...
Which iirc was "Guys Cere's TOTALLY got death flag written all over her and will be sidelined in the story.."
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Folks are just arguing over the same fucking shit fans have been arguing about for years and how they interpret the force/dark side. This is not new to the game, you don't like how the franchise handles it, fine but don't try to ignore what has been established.
The Dark Side is a nebulous concept that no film has seen fit to carefully explain what it exactly is and why it's wrong. Hell, TLJ seems to imply the Dark Side is a necessary part of balance as does Clone Wars with the Father stuff. I don't care what some EU nonsense states, the Dark Side and what it is has never been thoroughly defined. What we do know is that anger and hatred are definite paths to the Dark Side.
That said, the idea that strong emotions such anger is never justified and absolute stoicism is the correct course of action is not only problematic but also something Lucas seemed to agree with when you look at the OT and the PT. The Jedi in the PT are absolute adherents to the idea of the "Light Side," complete emotional detachment of stoicism. No you don't get to love anything. No you shouldn't form emotional attachments to anyone. No you should never get angry. Mother is enslaved? Don't think about it. Have strong romantic feelings towards a close friend? Suppress it. Friend gets killed? Shrug it off. Lover gets killed? No biggie. If you fight an enemy its with complete emotional disengagement, there should be no anger as you fight for your life and the lives of others.
Yet, the Jedi fell because of their lack of emotional engagement. Anakin turned because the Jedi failed to recognize and nurture a scared slave boy who merely wanted some love. And, Luke won because he failed to follow the instructions and teachings of his Jedi Masters who told him to "bury his feelings." He gave into love. Yet, love is a path to the Dark Side. By the way, even noble Obi-Wan can't follow the Jedi Path as he tells Anakin at the end that he "loved him," a feeling expressly forbidden by the Jedi Code.
So, I turn back to Fallen Order. Reinforcing the idea that giving in to any strong emotion is a bad thing is problematic. Those stormtroopers were taking kids, brutally torturing them, and then either killing them or making them Inquisitors. To say that reacting such events with anger is wrong is a huge problem. It's akin to telling someone in the midst of the Holocaust, "hey don't get angry as they lead your parents to the gas chamber." How else is Ceres supposed to react? With a cold, detached awareness that this is wrong?
There's a difference between saying that completely succumbing to rage and vengeance will turn you to the Dark Side and any feeling of strong emotion, even anger in the face of sheer evil, is wrong.
This is just a sad refute to fling, something you only do when you have nothing to argue. I liked TFA until Han shows up, I liked TLJ, I really like The Mandalorian. I'm not blinded by SW love to find ways to like things that are bad. Bad things are bad. Battlefront 2 has a terrible story. Fallen Order also has a terrible story. I've carefully explained why I feel this way and it has nothing to do with fan wishes or headcanon or nostalgia (the last of which I hate). They're bad because they are bad narratives, not because I secretly despise Star Wars.
It's that, and who the hell is going to change their mind with all this? Make someone that likes the story not like it? Make someone that dislikes it like it? What is even the point? "Story is terrible!" OK...so that's how you feel...and you keep saying it page after page, with huge walls of text, why?
Basically what I'm trying to argue here.
Honestly, even if you think that the SW canon is sacred and that any strong emotion should be a sign of the dark side, you can still have characters question the moral framing of it. Like, it'd have been a far more interesting situation if Cal, instead of confirming that Cere tapping into the dark side was wrong, instead was understanding and that she shouldn't have to suffer the corrosive effects of the dark side just because she gave into it in the face of such evil.
The problem I and BossAttack are getting at is that the Dark Side being a cosmic force within the star wars universe that feeds off emotions we as humans consider negative, like extreme anger, and the narrative framing of "Giving into anger is wrong" are treated as one and the same and they shouldn't be, not in this case. It'd be interesting of Cal was like "Wtf, how is that even a bad thing?"
CE, if you want to address my actual point, you have to make an argument that has nothing to do with star wars and everything to do with some kind of moral framework - Explain to me why it is morally wrong to give into anger in the face of absolute evil. As BossAttack put it, they were killing and torturing kids into being slave soldiers while they were in the process of committing genocide.
Why the fuck shouldn't someone be enraged by that? Why shouldn't someone hate the people who do that? Because that doesn't seem morally wrong to me. Being angry at that just seems like sanity.
I know this is a double post, and not strictly on topic, but fuck it, this is another one of the big problems of the PT. The characterization of Obiwan throughout that trilogy is that he isn't some stoic ideal of a jedi knight. He gets livid and pissed off when Darth Maul kills Quigon and then proceeds to murder Maul in retribution. No whiff of the dark side there. And throughout the series, he is quite emotive - by far the most emotive of the entire cast, in fact. He get sarcastic, he laughs and makes jokes, he gets really pissed off at anakin at the end of AotC, he gets sad at things, and he has a very strong bond of friendship with Anakin. Frankly, so does Anakin a lot of the time.
He has all that, emotion, attachments, the whole shebang.....but it's only Anakin's love for Padme that is framed as a negative attachment.
So it's hard to know how seriously we're even supposed to take that stupid code.
We're talking about the same dark side that led to multiple space nazi empires ruling the galaxy for and where everyone that uses it ends up looking like an abomination and/or like they're corrupted in some way yea?
The game doesn't say that stoicism is the righteous path. It proposes fighting for the right reasons and with the right mindset. As SW always has and continues to do so. Hence things like this not being portrayed as bad.
Cal doesn't get over his trauma as an example, he admits that it'll always be a part of who he is, he just learns to accept and cope with it instead of letting it rule over him.
That imo is a much healthier message than the jedi in the PT who as you said, preached stoicism and never showing emotion because George Lucas writing.
Hence,
Having characters completely immersed in the dark side and having them do the right thing.
Maybe not so coincidentally both of them have been nightsisters lol.
Maybe not so coincidentally both of them have been nightsisters lol.
This becomes really muddled when you get into how this has been expanded in the series.
So, I turn back to Fallen Order.Reinforcing the idea that giving in to any strong emotion is a bad thing is problematic. Those stormtroopers were taking kids, brutally torturing them, and then either killing them or making them Inquisitors. To say that reacting such events with anger is wrong is a huge problem. It's akin to telling someone in the midst of the Holocaust, "hey don't get angry as they lead your parents to the gas chamber." How else is Ceres supposed to react? With a cold, detached awareness that this is wrong?
There's a difference between saying that completely succumbing to rage and vengeance will turn you to the Dark Side and any feeling of strong emotion, even anger in the face of sheer evil, is wrong.
This isn't an example of a bad narrative. I've carefully explained how I feel the story is. It's not a story about how "don't have any strong emotions or reactions to things."
It's about learning how to cope in healthier ways. And now they're in a place to expand on those as none of the characters are "over" their pasts.
So if you are a nobody, on a fool's errand, doomed to fail, or doomed to die your story isn't worth telling?
And "cal does everything by himself" and "stops growing after the tutorial" were not experiences I had with this game. But I played only on Jedi Master and maybe Grand Master is different.
On a more serious note about the last page or so of this thread, one thing we're not going to do in this thread is head towards hostility and dictate or demand responses and explanations from people even after they've already provided them. People are here to enjoy this game and discuss its pros and cons, not have voices dismissed just because others don't like the game or its story. Thank you.
Finally BossAttack deciding to actually bring up specific things about the story that he doesn't like, instead of just shitting on it endlessly without any justification.
Here are some quick notes I put together going over a lot of why the storytelling is great in this game. There is absolutely more I could write on the subject but that would have to wait until I get off work
And this is all without saying just how good the performances are across the board. All of the actors did a phenomenal job, both in terms of their dialogue delivery but also by saying so much nonverbally
And just to respond to some particularly ridiculous points that were made:
Here are some quick notes I put together going over a lot of why the storytelling is great in this game. There is absolutely more I could write on the subject but that would have to wait until I get off work
- At the macro-level
- Overall structure
- Act 1
- Cal making the choice to risk exposing himself to save the life of his former friend/mentor Prauf is a sufficiently compelling inciting incident
- The train sequence is mechanically and visually clever, and does a good job of starting to hint at Cal's backstory
- The way the narrative of Act 1 is structured to justify the 3 different sections of the gameplay tutorial
- Section 1: Basic movement (Traversing Bracca Scrapyard with Prauf)
- Section 2: Combat (Train escape sequence)
- Section 3: Higher level mechanics, i.e. checkpoints, map, healing, etc. (Travelling to the Vault on Bogano)
- Act 2
- BD-1 saving Cal from Trilla on Zeffo is a great moment that deepens the relationship between Cal and BD-1
- Callback to the throat singing when Cal is captured on Zeffo and taken to the arena
- Act 3
- Act 3 slump of rebuilding your lightsaber is an inspired choice
- The Merrin scenes on Dathomir are great, littered with well-acted nonverbal moments like when Cal puts the astrium into Merrin's hands excitedly, and you can see on her face the sadness she feels that there's nothing there that can bring back her people
- So many clever sequences when you return to Bogano
- The vision where Cal speaks to the Zeffo sage, and learns from them that it was the Zeffo pursuit of control that led to their downfall
- The vision where Cal sees that using the holocron list to restart the Jedi Order could actually lead to the ruining of these children's lives
- The psychometry scene where Cal sees Trilla's past when he grabs her lighstaber
- Cere's conversation with Trilla in the Inquisitorius interrogation chamber, where again the theme of one generation of people making the choices for another, leading to ruin, is reinforced when she says something to the effect of: "I'm sorry that my choices took all of your choices away."
- Cal's proof of change moment when he decides to destroy the holocron rather than use it, echoing the message Jaro Tapal told him in the very first scene with him in the train vision from Act 1: "Trust only in the Force"
- Act 1
- Parallels between characters - they share past trauma but choose to process it differently, sometimes putting them at odds with each other
- Cal and Cere have a pseudo-Master/Padawan relationship where both of them came from traumatic Master/Padawan relationships that they feel extreme guilt about
- Cal and Merrin are both one of the few remaining survivors of mass extinctions of their peoples
- Overall structure
- At the micro-level
- Dialogue
- They could have easily had a lot of manufactured drama between Cal and Prauf after Prauf is saved, but they don't. Instead, Prauf says something to the effect of: "I know what you risked for me. I just don't know how I'm going to repay you."
- Cere actually providing wisdom, like a mentor figure should
- The scene on Ilum where BD-1 plays the recording of Cordova is extremely moving, and works as an excellent culmination of Cal's and BD-1's relationship
- All of Trilla's scenes do a great job of setting her up to be a strong villain, including her dialogue, her actions, and her musical theme
- Music is phenomenally used throughout to enhance the weight of all of the scenes, without over-reliance on the John Williams songs
- Dialogue
And this is all without saying just how good the performances are across the board. All of the actors did a phenomenal job, both in terms of their dialogue delivery but also by saying so much nonverbally
And just to respond to some particularly ridiculous points that were made:
Welcome to like 95% of video games dude. And just because most of the character development happens during cutscenes, does not in any way mean that that character development is bad.
I mean, this makes it seem like you didn't even play the game past the tutorial. In particular, everything from the end of Dathomir on is like all growth for Cal. Like, what
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I hope CAL kinda looks like that in the sequel. It's not just the facial hair I feel like something didn't translate well into the model.
And I hope that he discards shitty ponchos too. T.T
Also, Crossing Eden, Debra Wilson looks like shit in the game. As I stated before release. They made her incredibly freaky.
Not a photoshoot and minimal make up, looks incredible
In the game she looks like this :
First off, hilarious that you think that she's wearing minimal makeup in that photo lol. Second, you really need to get over the "she doesn't look attractive enough" thing. Cere actually looks younger than Debra Wilson does without any makeup. This is Debra in character recording scenes for the game.
T
This is her in-game.
She's playing a character who's been through a lot of shit, not posing for a pretty photo. In fact, in hindsight Cere barely smiles in this game, for good reason ofc.
First off, hilarious that you think that she's wearing minimal makeup in that photo lol. Second, you really need to get over the "she doesn't look attractive enough" thing. Cere actually looks younger than Debra Wilson does without any makeup. This is Debra in character recording scenes for the game.
T
This is her in-game.
She's playing a character who's been through a lot of shit, not posing for a pretty photo. In fact, in hindsight Cere barely smiles in this game, for good reason ofc.
1) She literally looks the same in the flashback
2) I have played the game, that screenshot is rarely how she looks in motion, she creeped me out the whole time
3) She looks human and not creepy on the mocap photos
And this is Debra in motion
She never looks creepy. But maybe you're gonna say eyeliner is making that big of an impact huh
Agree with everything you said. They've exaggerated her features, she looks comically grotesque.
I hope CAL kinda looks like that in the sequel. It's not just the facial hair I feel like something didn't translate well into the model.
And I hope that he discards shitty ponchos too. T.T
Also, Crossing Eden, Debra Wilson looks like shit in the game. As I stated before release. They made her incredibly freaky.
Not a photoshoot and minimal make up, looks incredible
In the game she looks like this :
Even my friends can't accept Cal's dorky Hodor looking face.
Those are literally Debra Wilson's eyes and expressions dude. Like that's literally just the way she looks and how she performed the character.
I'm not sure you realize what the purpose of makeup is and how big of an impact it has on appearance, especially considering that you can't tell what "minimal makeup" looks like. I'm getting flashbacks to when people thought injustice 2 looked off. I think people just aren't used to characters not looking ike idealized versions of their actors especially in video games. I just wish they were able to push the models more, (say having shots where the neck contorts like in BF2). I'd say they matched the quality scene in BF2 if not a slight step down, (render quality aside as that game's cinematics were pre-rendered). My one issue with Cere is that Gears 5 is still the game with the best depiction of hair on a POC:
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You're all over the place here.
The prequels and Clone Wars preach stoicism as the righteous path, the only path. It doesn't get into reasons. Yoda in the OT states, "you will know,when you are calm, at peace." Luke interrupts, "but why can't..." Yoda cuts him off, "no, no there is no why...clear your mind of these questions." Again, this suggests exactly what the prequels preach. Stoicism and calm detachment is the only path. You don't get to question this. You don't get to get angry in the face of pure, unadulterated evil. You just always remain calm.
So yes, Rey screaming in rage at the Throne Room Guards would be BAD according to Yoda. She is not calm. She is not at peace. The old Jedi DID NOT preach "fighting for the right reasons" is the correct mindset and so long as you do that you can get angry at shit or love people. All of that is path to the Dark Side and should not ever be embraced.
Once again, Luke rejecting this line of thinking in ROTJ is the whole point and is supposed to mark the end of the Old ways and the Return of the Jedi.
Cal doesn't get over his trauma as an example, he admits that it'll always be a part of who he is, he just learns to accept and cope with it instead of letting it rule over him.
At this point, you're just ignoring the prequels and George Lucas because "bad writing." Yet, at the same time your citing TLJ and Clone Wars as example to prove your point. Even if you don't like it, that is the "canon." The PT Jedi were about emotional detachment and this led to their fall. Which suggests that experiencing strong emotions is not some horrible thing that should always be suppressed.
How exactly do you cope, in the moment, with what happened to Ceres. The scene is painting what she did as some horrible tragedy. That killing those troopers in rage was wrong. That is saying that you shouldn't react strongly to such events.
Nope, but it does place limits on your storytelling. You can still tell a great story, but in that particular case you have to really lean on your characters and sell them. For instance, Rogue One is a neat concept, I think it fails horribly as a film. Going into the film, you know they must succeed in capturing the Death Star plans. You also know you've never heard of these people nor seen them in the OT so either they all end up dead or wind up in obscurity. The end point is certain, there isn't much surprise there. The Rebels will steal the Death Star plans, so why should you as a viewer care when the plot and ending is a given? Well, because of the characters. Rogue One fails because it's characters are paper thin ideas.
Fallen Order likewise hamstring itself, for no reason, by forcing the main narrative on a plot doomed to fail. So, again, it's storytelling must rely on the strength of its characters. And, like RO it fails here too.
Hehe, of course I don't consider "leveling up" growth. I'm talking about character development which Cal sorely lacks.
Just finished it. At the end of the day....I don't think I liked it much. The characters were great. The story was complete garbage. If we're going to keep getting stories plopped somewhere in the Skywalker saga, they have to find a way to make them meaningful. The moment the plot of this was laid out, you knew exactly how it would end. Either step away from stories that take place between 1 and 9, or stop doing stories about the Jedi, for shit's sake.
"Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering."
It's one of those lines that is catchy, yet complete horseshit. I don't think Star Wars will ever have the stones to step away from it though, as it's going to require mature conversation and a lot of nuance.
I completely agree with you. I don't think Star Wars, at least the concept of Jedi, can ever mature until this shit is turned on it's head:
"Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering."
It's one of those lines that is catchy, yet complete horseshit. I don't think Star Wars will ever have the stones to step away from it though, as it's going to require mature conversation and a lot of nuance.
This is true. I mean, look at Obi-Wan. He's a true Jedi in the sense that when Satine died he didn't break at all. He had the anger and the fear but he never let it take control of him. He remained in control of his emotions, even as she died in his arms.
Well, they're already somewhat doing it in the sequel trilogy.
With Kylo Ren in particular, they're kind of deconstructing the notion of a "dark lord powered by evil". Star Wars always had it that whenever it's baddies drew on the dark side, they became this edgelord warrior that's evil...but also super coool and powerful. Like, Vader and the Emperor and Darth Maul and so on, they all look evil, but cool.
Kylo Ren in contrast is dark and angry....but he just looks like an ordinary teenage boy. Like, he gets a scar, but he otherwise looks normal. And when he kills his father to fully embrace the dark side, he doesn't get a power up, he just gets traumatized as any kid that just made a terrible mistake would do. Kylo Ren is a much realer feeling depiction of what happens when real life people 'embrace the dark side', in that he's just this sad, pathetic little boy.
Meanwhile, when Rey is asked to look into the force and what she sees, she doesn't mention the light or dark side at all.
For her, the Force is just some circle of life stuff and the stuff that's good and bad about it are connected and flow into one another.
I like this and hope it continues.
Luke did realize when he was calm. Literally his "im a jedi" moment was punctuated by him letting go of fear and hate in the face of pure evil.
The same Yoda who stanned for Rey in the film because he knew she had the right ideas. Even Yoda himself hilariously screams in the prequels when fighting Dooku.
Sorry but "never scream or express any sort of emotion ever" is not part of the jedi code. Especially when you got smiling even when decapitated Kit Fisto and wise cracking Obi-wan Kenobi on the council.
Counter question.
What do you think would have been the appropriate reaction from Obi-wan when he watched Sabine get choked and brutally killed in front his eyes. Should he have embraced the dark side and rage?
We're talking about material written after the prequels, the prequels are not the end all be all of what the jedi were like and what they preached because other media centered around that era exist and was, better well written than the PT itself and thus is just as valid if not more so for refenrece especially when it comes to material that's referenced. Like, this game directly references the clone wars show. So the messages are and what they're going for become much more apparent when we examine similar plots. The narrative "the jedi were wrong about everything" doesn't really hold ground because it's a justification for what was at the time, very poor writing that even at times, contradicted the OT and not in a "well they were younger characters and understood less" kind of way. Hell I'd even say this is represented by the gameplay loop itself. Striking out and lashing out in anger, on grandmaster at least, is the fastest way to get killed.
Cere made a mistake, that much is true, the mistake wasn't kill everyone. It was]embracing anger and vengeance to strike out. Even in the face of pure evil that is not what the jedi are supposed to do. And that's a far cry from what your'e arguing, that essentially they're expected to be like those lobotomized mages in Dragon Age. That's not their code.
What is your opinion on Merrin in particular?
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She was boring like the rest of the cast and absolutely useless in the fight against Malicos.
I meant about her
being someone completely immersed in the dark side and fighting alongside a protagonist completely untouched by the dark side
Such a character complicates the entire thing about the jedi's understanding of the darkside. As they exist but don't try to take over the galaxy like the sith.
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See, this is is why I feel you use historic knowledge to dance around the actual points being made.
You can see in her facial expressions that Rey is trying to use her anger to fuel her aggression in order to make her a better fighter. Yoda is....just making noise. Like, the most you could say is that he's letting out a kiai, which is just really a breathing technique. Nothing about Yoda's actions or expression here indicate he is not in control or at peace. He's just making a sound.
You saw BossAttack mentioned the word "scream" in his statement and focused on disproving that instead of his greater overall point about the fact that Rey is drawing on RAGE. Which yeah, I agree with him, Yoda of the past would not have approved. Ghost Yoda, after he saw that he was wrong about Luke and him redeeming his father, would stan for Rey because he knows that Luke is at the part where he thinks he knows what Rey's limits are when he actually doesn't, so yeah, Ghost Yoda would be fine with Rey doing her own thing now, but Alive Yoda wouldn't have been.
I don't think her story was written in a compelling way is basically what I think about her storyline. If your asking what I think of the lore implications, I don't really care.
But what your actually asking me is how I think she relates thematically in to the complaint about Cere and yeah, I'm glad her using '''''dark''''' powers isn't framed some uber evil act when it's neither motivated by, actioned as, or resulting in anything particularly bad or harmful. All she basically did in the story was because she had reason to believe Cal was an invader and just wanted him to leave. The worst you could accuse her of is being too trigger happy with her home defense, but given that she's been burnt before, yeah, it's understandable. If a 'dark' power isn't doing anything evil, it shouldn't be framed as anything evil, and Merrin wasn't, so good.
Would have been nice if the scene of Cere anger killing of a bunch of child torturers had gotten the same courtesy.
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Didn't she refer to her abilities as magic in contrast to the Force? One could argue it is simply a different name for the same thing, but she didn't seem to treat it as such.
This reminds me of the novelization of Revenge of the Sith. It's been eons since I read it, so I will screw up all the fine details, but I believe it centered on when Mace Windu witnessed Palpatine using his force powers for the first time. To Mace, his perspective on the dark side focused on how the force was used. He was shocked at what Palpatine was doing, because he saw it as a gross manipulation of the force. I always liked this focus, because it was less concerned with whether someone was angry, or full of hate, but rather the end result of that emotion. Would someone full of hate or anger be more prone to manipulate the force to terrible ends? It's a perspective that condemns the use of the Force more than the emotions of the Force user.
What about Rey screaming meant that she wasn't in control? That's approximately the moment that Rey starts losing the fight entirely so we either take the explanation that she could calm down and focus like Kylo is shown doing, meaning that the jedi council was right, or we take it as a moment where she's just flexing her lightsaber as a response of her rough upbringing.
There isn't' an explicit difference between alive Yoda and ghost Yoda wtf. Bossattack seems to think that the jedi way is to end up like the lobotimized mages of Dragon Age. That same jedi council had this dude be a member:
The jedi code teaches you to remain in control and not lose yourself. Which is exactly what happened.
She was born and raised that way and has total control over it, Cere doesn't. That's the difference between the two, [/SPOILER]or three if you look at what happened to Taron when he was exposed to and taught her magick. Jedi just aren't equipped to deal with the dark side as it eats away at them.[/SPOILER]
Magick is fueled specifically by the darkside of the force.
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Welp, learned something new. Some day I'll finally watch the Clone Wars.
Idk man, if you can look at the face she's making and not seeing that she's drawing on rage to get herself hyped up for battle, then I don't think there is anything I can say to convince you of...anything really. You're going hyper skeptic on me.
You're right, you're right, my bad, my bad. If Yoda had character development, he'd have said something like "I told you to kill your father, I remember. Wrong, was I. Grew beyond me, you did. Character developed, mine has."
And that's, of course, the only way character development can possibly be done. If it's not said explicitly, it doesn't happen. When Yoda said that teachers are what students grow beyond, he was obviously only referring to Luke, not himself, and certainly not speaking from experience.
Again, I have to emphasize, I do not care about the lore here. I cannot begin to tell you how much I do not care about the lore.
If you could put a hundred thousand fucks in a single parsec, then Han Solo's Kessler run wouldn't have covered even 1% of the fucks I do not give about the SW lore in this game.
All I'm talking about, the only thing I've been talking about, is the moral framing that this set up in the narrative of the story being told. That's what I didn't like.
As I said, it's either she's drawing on rage and starts to lose as a result, which would go against the premise that the jedi ideas were wrong, or it's just her acting the way she always does in a fight.
Yoda wanted the eradication of the sith in general, he got his wish. 🤷♂️
The lore has an explicit role in the story though. As you said, it's shown but not told to us. It's shown why Cere's
use of the darkside is framed as bad
Merrin's isn't.
I wouldn't say we have reason to believe that she starts losing because she's raging. I honestly just assumed that guy she was fighting was just a bit more skilled than the other guys she fought. And in any case, she doesn't lose against him anyway. She kills him, so...
Also, rewatching the scene, she's making those angry grunts even before that shot, so it's more like she just is getting herself hyped again as shes fighting.
Look, you are a walking wookiepedia who uses minutiae as your main weapon to try and win SW arguments. Due to that, it would be insulting for me to even have to explicitly reference the relevant lines that Yoda said that refute your argument. You know what they are.
Moral framing intertwines with every aspect in the story, lore, characters, plot, background, setting and lore, depending on your definition of it, is usually part of every story and the way your trying to tie Merrin's depiction to Cere's doesn't have anything to do with the actual argument that I've made so if your going to continue to try and respond to it, atleast do so appropraitely.
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Yoda ofc would've preferred that Luke had done it the way he instructed and felt that there was no alternative. And ofc learning how that went down might have made him self reflect on the jedi way. Still, this has little bearing on how he'd feel about Rey.
You've been arguing
that it's wrong for the game to show Cere embracing the dark side to kill stormtroopers as a volatile reaction to her reaction to the fall of her apprentice and that affecting her for years down the line and still being framed as bad, especially since we spend literally the entire game killing a couple hundred storm troopers without ever batting an eye
because the part where she killed everyone isn't what eats away at her and makes her feel straight up suicidal, it was the part where she was capable of losing control and striking out in such a way. Merrin, complicates the entire thing entirely, here we have a character completely immersed in the darkside of the force from birth. Using dark side magic that yes, at times requires a sacrifice to work. That misses a culture that was fucking brutal and toxic. Yet despite all this she never compromises herself and the one time she does, (teaching Taron magick), she handles it by literally burying a man alive and admitting she and her culture was led astray.
The game isn't making the argument that
-darkside bad no matter what.
It acknowledges that context absolutely matters by having a character like that.
I'm not even get into the difference between Yoda making sounds and Rey literally screaming in pure rage.
I'll first touch on Obi-Wan. First of all, the dude like all PT Jedi is a massive hypocrite. The end of ROTS shows him fighting with anger against Anakin and he ends by stating that he "loved" Anakin. This is not allowed for a Jedi, it's almost like the prequel Jedi built themselves an impossible standard to follow and then were shocked when their students ultimately failed to live up to such an impossible standard. As for Sabine, I want to point out again that the emotion itself isn't the issue, but what you do with it. Getting angry as your padawan gets tortured and using that anger to save them is not something bad. In Sabine's case, giving into anger and vengeance would've been wrong for several reasons. For one, Sabine is dead. Obi-Wan can't bring her back, attempting to murder Maul in rage would be nothing more than a selfish act of vengeance. Second, Sabine was essentially a pacifist. Obi-Wan "avenging" Sabine would be the last thing she wanted and Obi-Wan knows this, to do so would be to spit on her corpse. Lastly, Maul wants Obi-Wan to fight him, so giving in is giving him exactly what he wants.
Once again, this situation is vastly different than using anger in the face of pure evil acts to save a life. That's how a normal human should react.
I think this was one of the issues with the order, and one of the major points of the prequels. Yoda was very wise, but also too set in his ways and unforgiving of what he saw as lack of discipline, not realizing that very few can remain calm in the face of turmoil like he and a select few others like Mace Windu could. This lack of understanding of a natural human weakness is what eventually stagnated the Jedi, making them vulnerable to manipulation, and caused one of their own to wipe them out.
So yes, it would be bad according to Yoda, but Yoda was wrong. This is also the point of TLJ and you can see Yoda himself has come to a sort of self awarness of this after his death with him burning down the sacred texts and telling Luke to learn from his failures.
The dark side at its core is a simple concept - you must not do things for bad reasons like revenge, out of anger, or impulse. It clouds your judgement and that is very dangerous for a person who is highly attuned to this powerful spiritual force, creating a snowball effect where it ultimately consumes them.
That's why Cere is ashamed, not because she defended herself or killed a bunch of Stormtroopers, but because she let go of her ideals for a moment and fell to anger.
Now you can argue - well, what was she supposed to do? - and I can't answer that. Force push them away or let herself die? It's a samurai's code/honor kind of thing, where even in the extreme circumstance she is unforgiving of herself and punishes herself for it. Which might seem extreme, but again, the old Jedi way was overly extreme and didn't always work.
Obi-wan didn't fight Anakin with anger or hate. He was calm. The jedi order is allowed to feel compassion for people. Which Anakin himself describes as unconditional love. Ofc they didn't' ALWAYS practice what they preached due to the nature of being sentient and having emotions and yes, expcecting every student to get it was strict.
The only reason the empire hadn't killed Cere by that point is because they wanted her to break and become an inquisitor. She was giving them exactly what they wanted by embracing the darkside and lashing out. Her escaping is the part where that plan went awry. But it led to Trilla being one of the most powerful inquisitors.
Getting angry as your padawan gets tortured and using that anger to save them is not something bad./SPOILER]
Cere didn't save Trilla, only pushed her further towards the dark by harming and abandoning her.You can argue that it's ofc a natural reaction to seeing something so horrific after being pushed so hard to turn. But that's simply not how she thinks she should have reacted, and it really isn't when we know she can be better than that. This is a game where due to circumstance, multiple people were robbed of choices in the past
-Cere succumbing to torture
-Cal's mistakes leading to his master's death
-Merrin being a child when the nightsisters were killed
-Trilla being turned into an inquisitor.
It's then about what they do when given a choice. When they have their own agency. And not everyone makes the right choices 100% of the time.
-Cere succumbing to torture
-Cal's mistakes leading to his master's death
-Merrin being a child when the nightsisters were killed
-Trilla being turned into an inquisitor.
It's then about what they do when given a choice. When they have their own agency. And not everyone makes the right choices 100% of the time.
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"Giving in to the dark side" has become so overblown and the default character arc of Force users that Jedi all act like alcoholics who have to work in a brewery. It makes them boring and insufferable. Not exactly the heroes we're all meant to look to to maintain galactic order.
I see it like..
Flashes of anger/murder is fine, it's how long you dwell in those feelings that makes it harder to fall to the dark side.
Vader? He can't let go of his wife dying. He ends up being directly responsible for that. He literally can't escape from that feeling, making him way too vulnerable for the dark side. The Force amplifies these feelings. Every time Cal tapped into it he was overwhelmed with feelings of having failed his Master during Order 66. When he let go and forgave himself, that's when he was less of a victim for the Dark Side. In ROTJ, Vader saves his son, and forgives himself turning to the Light Side.
Cere couldn't let go of what she did. It's presumably like an alcoholic, there's always going to be temptation. You can try to skate that line or you can do what she did and try to cut herself off from the Force. Or to keep with the flimsy analogy, if you're susceptible to drinking, maybe try avoiding situations where you are exposed to drinking and fall into worse problems.
Vader? He can't let go of his wife dying. He ends up being directly responsible for that. He literally can't escape from that feeling, making him way too vulnerable for the dark side. The Force amplifies these feelings. Every time Cal tapped into it he was overwhelmed with feelings of having failed his Master during Order 66. When he let go and forgave himself, that's when he was less of a victim for the Dark Side. In ROTJ, Vader saves his son, and forgives himself turning to the Light Side.
Cere couldn't let go of what she did. It's presumably like an alcoholic, there's always going to be temptation. You can try to skate that line or you can do what she did and try to cut herself off from the Force. Or to keep with the flimsy analogy, if you're susceptible to drinking, maybe try avoiding situations where you are exposed to drinking and fall into worse problems.
Cere didn't save Trilla, only pushed her further towards the dark by harming and abandoning her.You can argue that it's ofc a natural reaction to seeing something so horrific after being pushed so hard to turn. But that's simply not how she thinks she should have reacted, and it really isn't when we know she can be better than that. This is a game where due to circumstance, multiple people were robbed of choices in the past
-Cere succumbing to torture
-Cal's mistakes leading to his master's death
-Merrin being a child when the nightsisters were killed
-Trilla being turned into an inquisitor.
It's then about what they do when given a choice. When they have their own agency. And not everyone makes the right choices 100% of the time.
-Cere succumbing to torture
-Cal's mistakes leading to his master's death
-Merrin being a child when the nightsisters were killed
-Trilla being turned into an inquisitor.
It's then about what they do when given a choice. When they have their own agency. And not everyone makes the right choices 100% of the time.
The "tragedy" is framed as Ceres using anger to escape, not her abandoning Trilla. Now that would've have been something to actually explore and for her to shame herself for. She had the opportunity to bring Ceres along with her, she chose to leave her. She abandoned her apprentice. That is something the game could've explored, maybe she saw Trilla as too far gone and didn't attempt to save her and her arc would be learning that no one is too far gone. Perhaps as part of the torture it isn't just Trilla putting on the Inquisitor helmet, but her killing an innocent and that's what causes Ceres to abandon her and not even attempt to save her. However, that's not what we got.
Instead, the mere act of displaying and using anger to escape is seen as the tragedy and something she should've never done. Yet, this is the same game that says Merrin is cool despite her entire powerset being based on the Dark Side.
Idea for the sequel: Kill everyone except Merrin and make the game about her. She's the only interesting character in the whole story and the only one that felt like an actual emotive human.
Instead, the mere act of displaying and using anger to escape is seen as the tragedy and something she should've never done. Yet, this is the same game that says Merrin is cool despite her entire powerset being based on the Dark Side.
Idea for the sequel: Kill everyone except Merrin and make the game about her. She's the only interesting character in the whole story and the only one that felt like an actual emotive human.
Story is not that interesting and Greez's personality doing a 180 seemingly out of nowhere feels rushed as fuck
The much, much more interesting story to me seems to be the story between Cere and Trilla and their past. Now that would've been an interesting story to play through and unfortunately it's just background info for the main narrative here
The much, much more interesting story to me seems to be the story between Cere and Trilla and their past. Now that would've been an interesting story to play through and unfortunately it's just background info for the main narrative here
All that aside, here are some shots of the excellent models. SPOILER WARNING:
Like that SW games can be lookers again instead of before where we got a ton of shovelwave that looked subpar. Even if that means way fewer releases.
I ended up taking 818 screenshots while playing this game.
I ended up taking 818 screenshots while playing this game.
That's literally not inaccurate.