Well that's like your opinion man. I liked the new Star Wars movies. Give me more. Thanks.TV (D+) and video games are their only hope of keeping SW relevant after that last couple of movies.
Well that's like your opinion man. I liked the new Star Wars movies. Give me more. Thanks.TV (D+) and video games are their only hope of keeping SW relevant after that last couple of movies.
Of course the same individuals don't make every decision, which is why we use Lucasfilm as a conglomerate party instead of a singular individual. But the umbrella of responsibility still falls under Lucasfilm as a whole to dictate and orchestrate "approved canon" between films, books, comics, games, shows, and... apparently Fortnite tie-in material (that still is so weird).Putting aside a lot from this post, you and a lot of people seem to be under the impression that the same people who are in charge of things like this are the same ones directing story for the films. The story group, from what I'm familiar with, doesn't tell the script writers of the movies what to write, they simply instruct them on the "rules" of the Star Wars universe or figure out how to have tie in media work with it. Rian Johnson talked about this; the light speed "holdo maneuver" was his idea, he got feedback, and the story group had to come up with how it fit in the wider scheme of things.
How Lucasfilm interacts with its licensees is wholly removed from how movie production works, from the process, to the people making executive and creative decisions - which is the NORM for things like this.
I mean, Star Wars at this point was already pretty stupid.What about people like me who LIKE these stories adhering to canon? Why is it such a big deal you can't have a red lightsaber? You can already change it's color whenever you want when if they were that strict as you say you wouldn't be able to do the second he made his saber.
And didn't people also constantly complain about how stupidly OP Starkiller was?
The easy compromise, for aesthetic choices anyway, is to have a "Legends Mode" option in the menu. You want the red lightsaber, fine but you have to acknowledge that it's a part of Legends and not canon.
Well, you're entitled to your opinion? I'm not saying people who want everything to be canon are "wrong." I'm just giving my personal take that JFO feels constrained by what Lucasfilm said yes or no to. Beyond the lightsaber stuff, Cal's force powers are pretty limited - it's just pull, push, or slow. I have to imagine that a team as imaginative as Respawn had a bunch of cool ideas for force abilities that Lucasfilm wouldn't allow.What about people like me who LIKE these stories adhering to canon? Why is it such a big deal you can't have a red lightsaber? You can already change it's color whenever you want when if they were that strict as you say you wouldn't be able to do the second he made his saber.
And didn't people also constantly complain about how stupidly OP Starkiller was?
It would literally be a switch in the menu to change a color.creating another mode for red lightsabers and other cosmetics sounds like a huge waste of time.
Lucasfilm seems like they're in such a weird place. I felt Fallen Order treated the jedi more reverently than the recent films even.
Battlefront 2 is especially weird because a pink Vader is a big no-no yet having Count Dooku in his "Exquisite Pajamas" is fine because he wore them in one episode of Clone Wars, despite the idea of Dooku fighting on a battlefield with pajamas is obviously absurdIt would literally be a switch in the menu to change a color.
It's the same stupid argument against pink Darth Vader skins in Battlefront. "It breaks canon!"
creating another mode for red lightsabers and other cosmetics sounds like a huge waste of time.
So did the OT though, twins even. When it came time for the final battle, one of them chose not to tap into the dark side and vanquish anyone, an option we didn't get to make in the force unleashed. JFO at least confronted the ramifications of tapping into the dark side, and as such was a better, more mature product than "kicking ass with the force", the public mantra of the dev director of Force Unleashed. And while it was fun to use dark-side force powers (on the Wii, anyway), we can still get this kind of gameplay connected to more grounded SW narrative concepts.
And you wonder why EA isn't exactly jumping to make a bunch of SW games.
Then TROS gave us this anyway.
Of course the same individuals don't make every decision, which is why we use Lucasfilm as a conglomerate party instead of a singular individual. But the umbrella of responsibility still falls under Lucasfilm as a whole to dictate and orchestrate "approved canon" between films, books, comics, games, shows, and... apparently Fortnite tie-in material (that still is so weird).
Which, again, Rian Johnson sort of going "what if I do this light speed maneuver with Holdo?" and Lucasfilm just shrugging and going "sure, whatever"... which immediately raised a bunch of questions about why they don't do it more often, or do it with the ships on autopilot, or with droids, or with any vessel capable of lightspeed capability. RoS has a throwaway line of "that was a one-in-a-million shot!" to try and shut up the critics... but also doesn't explain WHY that was the case and opened up a new line of questioning.
That's why it's weird that Lucasfilm is SO controlling over games, but the entire ST felt so "on the fly" and without direction. Again, not the same individuals are approving these decisions, but the group as a whole seems oddly selective about adhering to strict canon and openly challenging or breaking with tradition based entirely on what side of the bed they woke up on that morning.
I mean, Star Wars at this point was already pretty stupid.
Remember when Starkiller, Vader, and Yoda went to 17th century Europe and fought Voldo and Ivy Valentine for possession of the Soul Edge?
So... basically, "why can't you guys make 1313 like we asked that other lady to do." Fuck you back."They weren't super comfortable with the idea," Asmussen said of his initial pitch for a melee-focused action game on the AIAS Game Maker's podcast. "I pitched, 'Hey what if we do a game about Jedi and Force powers, and they were not super comfortable with that. They threw it back and said, 'What about blasters and bounty hunters?' That's not the background of the team we've built; you might as well ask me and us to start building a racing game at this point. I don't think anybody's going to be happy with the results of that.
And the irony that Lucasfilm was THIS controlling over their games - yet RoS is so chaotic and poorly executed due to LACK of planning - makes me seriously wonder why their priorities are so skewed.
Exactly. We have been seeing the amount of control they have since Battlefront II, and including Ragtag.I guess that we can't blame EA for everything Star Wars related. It looks like that Lucasfilm has a lot of issues too.
I've been theorizing this the entire time: under the current conditions, there's no possibility of a KOTOR or spiritual successor to it, unless it's part of Legends. If they're this strict about a linear game, imagine one with character choices?Sounds like hell for y'all dorks who want a new Kotor over everything.
Lol. Glad I'm not the only one who caught that. Still hurts.So... basically, "why can't you guys make 1313 like we asked that other lady to do." Fuck you back.
Actually, that's precisely what Marvel does. Doctor Strange 2 just lost its director because they have a bigger story to tell and his creative vision for the film wasn't in-step with where Marvel wants to go, so they amicably split and will replace him with someone who's going to keep on the approved path. It also happened with the Ant-Man movies. Sometimes it's for the better, sometimes not, but the end-goal of keeping everyone on the same page is why that structure is there, and I really didn't see that in the Star Wars movies.It's not weird at all because, again, this is the norm. What franchise are you gonna have a punch of people whose job is to keep track of continuity minutia tell a Hollywood Director that their spaceship thing won't happen? Working backwards from the movies is how any other franchise would work.
And that explanation was... it was a "one-in-a-million maneuver"? That's not an explanation; that's an excuse. An explanation explains how. Han saying to Luke "that shot was one-in-a-million!" in the original film isn't an explanation for Luke's great shot, just a confirmation that it was skillfully pulled off.Also, they did come up with an explanation, it was just one that fans didn't like because they'd already made up their minds that it didn't work, would never work, and It Was Bad.
If it's a move that can hobble an entire fleet of powerful enemy ships and dramatically shift the tide of a war, YES, it is on a different level than "is a parsec a distance or measure of time?", because one is a bit of confused techno jargon and the other is an action that has massive implications for the entire fate of a galactic war.Theres this huge double standard at play here, especially given the number of Voodoo Shark bullshit and dodgy space science is in this franchise that people accepted when the franchise wasn't owned Disney. Treating parsecs like a unit of time and not distance was either a laughable example of Uncle George not getting it, or something that EU writers had to twist themselves into a pretzel to make work, and people bought it or moved on - but a ship hitting another while moving super fast is universe breaking???
The minutia of a plan can change, but Endgame was always going to tackle Thanos, the Infinity Gauntlet and Infinity Stones, and ALL the major beats they had planned for the story were in place a decade before the story came to its conclusion. It was a flexible plan (bye "Inhumans", hello "Spider-man") and there was course-adjustment along the way (boo "Dark World", yay "Ragnarok"), but the outline was pretty solid. There was a plan - a finish line. The way to get TO the finish line shifted and changed as the need arose (which is good business and pre-planning at work), but at no point was Endgame going to suddenly subvert expectations and reveal that Thanos was merely the puppet of the original MCU villain... Obadiah Stane (what a twist)! And reveal at the 11th hour that Tony Stark's REAL dad was actually... the real Mandarin! And the Infinity Stones actually weren't important and were actually tasty gummy vitamins and the REAL power was the friendships we made along the way!... It planted its seeds carefully over 23 movies and paid it off in the big conclusion.And in the end you're also over-estimating the effect road maps have on a franchise. Marvel movies strongly influence one another, but stuff isn't nearly as planned out as people believe. It's more throwing stuff out for the future and seeing what sticks. Thanos's motivation was clearly wholly different from what Whedon and Gunn both alluded to. Tony dying was planned as Endgame was being made. In general, "having a plan" is just general ideas, and not having a clear outline. Stuff like that is usually the property of adapted works that already form a series, or films that are more of a singular vision - and even then, there's clearly tons of writing by the seat of one's pants. Just ask Luke's "sister".
Under current Lucasfilm guidance, no KOTOR successor is happening. I'm amazed they haven't shut down Old Republic for its massive non-canon implications. I guess non-canon isn't so important if it's still making them money. Lol.I've been theorizing this the entire time: under the current conditions, there's no possibility of a KOTOR or spiritual successor to it, unless it's part of Legends. If they're this strict about a linear game, imagine one with character choices?
But maybe they'll loosen up one day. Not counting on it, but hoping.
They're also Lucas' appeal to the importance of religion.Jedi is the power fantasy for literally billions of people.
God forbid we make a game about them.
Lol. Glad I'm not the only one who caught that. Still hurts.
Actually, that's precisely what Marvel does. Doctor Strange 2 just lost its director because they have a bigger story to tell and his creative vision for the film wasn't in-step with where Marvel wants to go, so they amicably split and will replace him with someone who's going to keep on the approved path. It also happened with the Ant-Man movies. Sometimes it's for the better, sometimes not, but the end-goal of keeping everyone on the same page is why that structure is there, and I really didn't see that in the Star Wars movies.
And that explanation was... it was a "one-in-a-million maneuver"? That's not an explanation; that's an excuse. An explanation explains how. Han saying to Luke "that shot was one-in-a-million!" in the original film isn't an explanation for Luke's great shot, just a confirmation that it was skillfully pulled off.
If it's a move that can hobble an entire fleet of powerful enemy ships and dramatically shift the tide of a war, YES, it is on a different level than "is a pasec a distance or measure of time?", because one is a bit of confused techno jargon and the other is an action that has massive implications for the entire fate of a galactic war.
If you open up the Pandora's box of powers or abilities in the series that can alter the very structure of the galaxy as they know it, you have to deal with the implications. That's basic storytelling.
The minutia of a plan can change, but Endgame was always going to tackle Thanos, the Infinity Gauntlet and Infinity Stones, and ALL the major beats they had planned for the story were in place a decade before the story came to its conclusion. It was a flexible plan (bye "Inhumans", hello "Spider-man") and there was course-adjustment along the way (boo "Dark World", yay "Ragnarok"), but the outline was pretty solid. There was a plan - a finish line. The way to get TO the finish line shifted and changed as the need arose (which is good business and pre-planning at work), but at no point was Endgame going to suddenly subvert expectations and reveal that Thanos was merely the puppet of the original MCU villain... Obadiah Stane (what a twist)! And reveal at the 11th hour that Tony Stark's REAL dad was actually... the real Mandarin! And the Infinity Stones actually weren't important and were actually taste gummy vitamins and the REAL power was the friendships we made along the way!... It planted its seeds carefully over 23 movies and paid it off in the big conclusion.
It's ridiculous to compare the MCU and its 23 movies to Star War's sequel trilogy and its 3 widely inconsistent, contradictory films telling competing messages and stories.
And Leia being Luke's sister is stupid. It was stupid then and it's stupid now and it's one of the few things even original fans agree has aged like spoiled milk.
Working with Lucasfilm sounds like a fucking nightmare. Is there a term for preemptive brain drain?
And you could argue that's largely because the Mandarin - in isolation - isn't actually important. He's Malekith-level's of important to the overall storyline. He's not Loki. He's not Thanos. He was as vital to the overall plot as Batroc the Leaper (remember him in Winter Soldier?). The main crux of the villain's role wasn't to be a prime mover and shaker but a backdrop for the hero - Tony - to grow and evolve from. Tony's arc was important, not fake-Mandarin's actions.Luke and Leia being siblings is just one symptom of all that; the OT was intended to be six movies instead of three, but Lucas got so tired of them that he decided to end it at 3.
But I digress. What you described is still a very general plan. Hell, the Mandarin is a textbook example - IM3 is very clear about what they intended the Mandarin to be, which conflicts somewhat with what the Ten Rings were implied to be, and DEFINITELY is getting a huge course correction in the form of that one Marvel One Shot and the upcoming Shang-chi.
It's still too much to be believable even for Star Wars.
No they don't. The new trilogy proves they don't.The name of this thread could be reduced to "Star Wars -- Lucasfilm Was Originally Resistant To The Idea" and still be 100% accurate.
Lucas runs their IP with an absolute iron fist.
And you could argue that's largely because the Mandarin - in isolation - isn't actually important. He's Malekith-level's of important to the overall storyline. He's not Loki. He's not Thanos. He was as vital to the overall plot as Batroc the Leaper (remember him in Winter Soldier?). The main crux of the villain's role wasn't to be a prime mover and shaker but a backdrop for the hero - Tony - to grow and evolve from. Tony's arc was important, not fake-Mandarin's actions.
Which is the big difference. Marvel movies of course have small plans change. Roles are recast, schedules shift, CEOs who stood in the way of female and minority-led movies are booted to the curb, etc. But most of the big picture WAS focused and planned and everything else was sidepaths to get there. It's like when you go on a nature walk and take a detour. Sometimes you go off the path, backtrack, or waste time, but eventually you get back on the main path and get to the end of the natural trail. The destination was always there, even if you changed the route to get there from time to time.
Which is, again, the big difference. Marvel knew what story beats were immutable and locked in place and which ones ultimately weren't that important. I can tell you right now that Taskmasker isn't going to be a universe-affecting, 23-film-pay-off villain in Black Widow. He's not that type of character. But if you start seeing hints of a man in metal scheming from his throne in the overlooked nation of Latvaria, you can bet that character will have more care and attention paid to him than a one-off movie mook.
Uh huh.
Yeah, no, spare me this. I like trying to keep the story consistent. Doesn't always work but I like when the universe pieces together naturally.Star Wars is a property to sell toys. Being this uptight about plastic dolls is silly. Star Wars is a silly movie property, treating it like it's sacred is dumb.
Exactly.This isn't a bad thing. It's okay to be told no and hash it out. You have to fight for your vision. It's good for the creative process.
Star Wars Galaxy at Disney World had some props removed - like a hidden Ark of the Covenant - because "Tier-3 fans" complained it broke the immersion. "Tier-3" was the Disneyland term for uber-fans who obsess over everything.
After hearing about the hell that Amy Henning endured trying to get her Star Wars game off the ground and hearing these stories, I'm convinced Lucasfilm/Disney are WAAAAY too controlling and also have very little understanding of how difficult and time-consuming making a quality video game is compared to other ventures. I have friends who have worked on Star Wars projects under Disney who said it was utter hell - about how everything you develop is at a snail's pace because every tiny thing they did - from designing a blaster to creating a hairstyle - had to be approved first from the braintrust at Lucasfilm... and it rarely ever was. They'd get back stupid notes like "this hairstyle is not in vogue during this era of Star Wars" and "this material is not worn by citizens of Tatooine" and they'd just get a mountain of notes back on basic things to change, things even the craziest Star Wars fan wouldn't notice or care about.
You can't make a quality video game in a timely manner when someone is second-guessing every single thing you pitch, design, or program.
Fallen Order is a miracle it's as good as it is, even with all its flaws.
And the irony that Lucasfilm was THIS controlling over their games - yet RoS is so chaotic and poorly executed due to LACK of planning - makes me seriously wonder why their priorities are so skewed.
Yeah, the only reason SWTOR still happens is because it's a Legends story.Under current Lucasfilm guidance, no KOTOR successor is happening. I'm amazed they haven't shut down Old Republic for its massive non-canon implications. I guess non-canon isn't so important if it's still making them money. Lol.
OT, ST, and PT meaning? Acronyms are truly an evil thing sometimesLucas secretly just doesn't like Jedi.
OT talked about them but you never saw more than one per film
PT had their greatest enemy (who they couldn't detect when sitting right beside them but could feel people dying a half a galaxy away) use their prophesied Savior and the Troops under their command to wipe them out
ST has what appeared to originally be the orders bright new torchbearer get his lunch handed to him by his nephew, running away, flashbacks of the order getting wiped out again and the showed that Sith blood was needed to bring balance to the force: not Jedi blood. Not to mention turning the entire saga from the Skywalker saga to the Palpatine saga
Not in the movies, he's not. In the MCU, Tony never meets the real Mandarin.The Mandarin was Iron Man's arch nemesis. Iron Man 1 and 2 were clearly building up to him in a way that Iron Man 3 decided to subvert. And the backlash against "the change" was clearly enough to make them change course and try to save face. That's a pretty clear indication he's more than just a minor player in their eyes.
If this were Star Wars fandom, it'd be made into a much bigger deal. And likewise, what you're alluding to with Doom should come with the caveat that their last, equally big villain, changed significantly once they Russos got ahold of him.
Original Trilogy, Prequel Trilogy, Sequel Trilogy.OT, ST, and PT meaning? Acronyms are truly an evil thing sometimes
Well I am obviously not in charge so you have nothing to worry about, except maybe that the movie will continue to rehash the same story over and over from the OT.Uh huh.
We're just not gonna agree here. I frankly just don't see how such a situational ability is in anyway game breaking.
Yeah, no, spare me this. I like trying to keep the story consistent. Doesn't always work but I like when the universe pieces together naturally.
It makes it more fun when stuff like Ahsoka shows up in Rebels or what happened in the last episode of The Mandalorian. If everything could just do whatever they wanted without care things like that wouldn't feel as special.
LucasFilm/Arts absolutely does when it comes to external licensees, which is what this thread is about.
Uh huh.Well I am obviously not in charge so you have nothing to worry about, except maybe that the movie will continue to rehash the same story over and over from the OT.
I'm glad you like it but it's made for kids, to sell toys.
So did the OT though, twins even. When it came time for the final battle, one of them chose not to tap into the dark side and vanquish anyone, an option we didn't get to make in the force unleashed. JFO at least confronted the ramifications of tapping into the dark side, and as such was a better, more mature product than "kicking ass with the force", the public mantra of the dev director of Force Unleashed. And while it was fun to use dark-side force powers (on the Wii, anyway), we can still get this kind of gameplay connected to more grounded SW narrative concepts.
why is Disney so terrified of making Star Wars games? sure plenty of the mid-aughts stuff was rough but we got some great shit like BFII and Republic Commando there too
If you're talking about the cameo at the end of Solo that character was already established to still be alive at that point. They didn't revive anyone there.It's still too much to be believable even for Star Wars.
No they don't. The new trilogy proves they don't.
Although, even if it's an iron fist it doesn't mean they're smart about what the hell they restrain it with. They also revived a fan-favorite character like... twice in both Han Solo and ROS just because they could, that isn't "ruling with an iron fist to me". It's like the floodgates are open.
Does it? The Rise of Skywalker had a bunch of force related bullshit that felt like it would have been right at home in TFU.I think they don't want story beats to become canon and then force them to work that into their films? I mean Starkiller completely blows away anything in the films power wise and that's a sticky situation for Rey.
Fun fact, Starkiller was almost made canon again in Rebels but the writers said he "didn't quite fit"with there story.I think they don't want story beats to become canon and then force them to work that into their films? I mean Starkiller completely blows away anything in the films power wise and that's a sticky situation for Rey.
Fun fact, Starkiller was almost made canon again in Rebels but the writers said he "didn't quite fit"with there story.
You really wanna go here? You really wanna throw your hat in with the people who say this kinda shit?This just tells me that Kaytleen Kennedy just needs to be fired already! Why is Disney taking so long?
The closest thing to TFU is..Does it? The Rise of Skywalker had a bunch of force related bullshit that felt like it would have been right at home in TFU.
What is Lucasfilm's obsession with bounty hunters? They're not that interesting.
Matter teleportation across miles, body projection across light years, massive lighting storms. It's clown town, even accounting for Palpatine.You really wanna go here? You really wanna throw your hat in with the people who say this kinda shit?
The closest thing to TFU is..
Rey hold's back a single relatively small ship from launching and even then you could tell she was struggling.
Compare that to Starkiller pulling a fucking Stardestroyer down.
None of that strikes me as bad as TFU except the massive Sith Lightning and frankly I give that a pass by being THE big bad. especially given the limited uses of first two.Matter teleportation across miles, body projection across light years, massive lighting storms. It's clown town, even accounting for Palpatine.