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funky

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,527
So if they are flesh and blood synths how does she just punch through the floor of a Borg cube. Flesh and blood isn't surviving that, nor is it strong enough to so she gotta be robotic and just looking human.

They can't be human but also be superpowered.

I doubt the show will ever address this.

Nano machines son.
 

Vault

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,666
Genetically engineered humans from the 20th century were pretty ridiculous strength wise.
 
Oct 27, 2017
6,231
So if they are flesh and blood synths how does she just punch through the floor of a Borg cube. Flesh and blood isn't surviving that, nor is it strong enough to so she gotta be robotic and just looking human.

They can't be human but also be superpowered.

I doubt the show will ever address this.
Why would it need to be addressed? It would make no sense for synth developers to include all these abilities, speed, and strength, but not a skin that could handle them. Would it even be an accomplishment if a synth just tore through its human finger skin every time it used a computer at Data speed?
 
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Ignatz Mouse

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,746
I don't think DS9 really started the process of whatever lusterous moral high ground decline he's speaking of. The exploration of Utopia as a concept was kind of tossed aside for the most part in mid-late TNG. I think people just really have a hard time conceptually wrapping their minds around that kind of project and what it would entail with the technologies involved in Star Trek. Chabon is definitely going for the 'lol what technology' approach that all of Star Trek eventually does in order to focus on sort of trite, outdated notions of human potential. I think this Q and A kind of confirms that in a way.

I don't know, for someone who has won awards for his fiction Chabon is surprisingly lacking in imagination in regards to Star Trek.

Based on the one I read, Chabon's novels are character and relationship driven, not plot driven. I assume his hook into all of this was Picard and his interaction with the larger politics of Romulan evacuation, his fall, and now his return to having a purpose. That's certainly what hooks me into it.
 

Fuzzy

Completely non-threatening
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
18,190
Toronto
Why would it need to be addressed? It would make no sense for synth developers to include all these abilities, speed, and strength, but not a skin that could handle them. Would it even be an accomplishment if a synth just tore through its human finger skin every time it used a computer at Data speed?
The point is they're indistinguishable from humans or else a medical tricorder scan would show they weren't human. It's something you just have to ignore.
 

StallionDan

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,705
Why would it need to be addressed? It would make no sense for synth developers to include all these abilities, speed, and strength, but not a skin that could handle them. Would it even be an accomplishment if a synth just tore through its human finger skin every time it used a computer at Data speed? This is something you want addressed in the show?
Don't call them indistinguishable from humans when they clearly aren't.

This is one of the problems NuTrek has a lot of, creating situations that don't work when you look past skin deep.

The writers want a scary new concept of human androids, but also they want them to be not human androids. Which is it? The two ideas are not compatible.
 

Pluto

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,515
The point is they're indistinguishable from humans or else a medical tricorder scan would show they weren't human. It's something you just have to ignore.
Data's mother was an advanced android who read as a human on scanners despite not being one, Soji could have artificial components that are hidden from routine scans.
 

deimosmasque

Ugly, Queer, Gender-Fluid, Drive-In Mutant, yes?
Moderator
Apr 22, 2018
14,326
Tampa, Fl
Also do we know if either of them has ever even been medically scanned?

They have only existed for 3 years and for sure have never been sick, and probably never been injured.
 

StallionDan

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,705
"Oh but no don't bring that up. That's different and I need an excuse to complain"
She was never meant to be a human synth. She was an android with the ability to fool scanners, age and die.

That is not what Soji/Dahj meant to be.
Yes, it is different, and thus not relevant to the Soji/Dahj situation.


Anyone brining up Data's mother clearly doesn't even understand the discussion.
 

deimosmasque

Ugly, Queer, Gender-Fluid, Drive-In Mutant, yes?
Moderator
Apr 22, 2018
14,326
Tampa, Fl
Also did anyone else immediately think of the assassination of the Romulan senate in Nemesis when that device began spewing out red "radiation" smoke.
 

JonnyDBrit

God and Anime
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,077
I'd actually forgotten that detail, so fair enough. Then again, I would note that, reading through, Juliana is noted specifically as 'giving off human lifesigns', not as herself described as being 'indistinguishable'. Then again, that's starting to play semantics
 

Pluto

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,515
She was never meant to be a human synth. She was an android with the ability to fool scanners, age and die.

That is not what Soji/Dahj meant to be.
Yes, it is different, and thus not relevant to the Soji/Dahj situation.


Anyone brining up Data's mother clearly doesn't even understand the discussion.
Data's mother was an android but still indistinguishable from humans to the naked eye and regular scans, the point is that fooling scanners is easy and that is relevant to Dahj and Soji.

When was it ever said that Dahj and Soji are completely biological with no artificial components whatsoever? Picard assumed that and Jurati confirmed that such a body could be grown but neither has any actual first hand knowledge about their creation.

Both Dahj and Soji have shown abilities far beyond of what humans are capable of so they are clearly not just "regular human woman in her early 20s" bodies grown in a lab, they are meant to pass as human but they are not.

But why think about that when you can just be arrogant and condescending?
 

nekkid

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
21,823
I've been pretty down on this show.

And then they bought in Hugh and I'm like

giphy.gif
 

deimosmasque

Ugly, Queer, Gender-Fluid, Drive-In Mutant, yes?
Moderator
Apr 22, 2018
14,326
Tampa, Fl
Data's mother was an android but still indistinguishable from humans to the naked eye and regular scans, the point is that fooling scanners is easy and that is relevant to Dahj and Soji.

When was it ever said that Dahj and Soji are completely biological with no artificial components whatsoever? Picard assumed that and Jurati confirmed that such a body could be grown but neither has any actual first hand knowledge about their creation.

Both Dahj and Soji have shown abilities far beyond of what humans are capable of so they are clearly not just "regular human woman in her early 20s" bodies grown in a lab, they are meant to pass as human but they are not.

But why think about that when you can just be arrogant and condescending?

And even if somehow they are one hundred percent biological, we know there are many species and even augmented humans who have Mega Strength (that is a real term that the Next Generation show used)
 
OP
OP
Spectromixer

Spectromixer

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
16,766
USA
New episode tomorrow

1.07 Nepenthe

Picard and Soji transport to the planet Nepenthe, home to some old and trusted friends. As the rest of the La Sirena crew attempt to join them, Picard helps Soji make sense of her recently unlocked memories. Meanwhile, Hugh and Elnor are left on the Borg cube and must face an angered Narissa.
 
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Noodle

Banned
Aug 22, 2018
3,427
Was that footage from Discovery's Control future in the mind-meld?

Marina Sirtis not even doing an accent anymore.

One slice of pizza per person? This really is hell.
 

Noodle

Banned
Aug 22, 2018
3,427
She already mostly dropped it during TNG and who can blame her? She came up with a betazoid accent and then Majel Barrett didn't give a fuck killing the betazoid accent idea halfway through the first season.

Even in the movies and Voyager she maintained a generic American accent. Now she's letting her real accent slip through (if you've seen her convention footage you'll know how strong it is).
 

Altair

Member
Jan 11, 2018
7,901
Awesome episode. Seeing Picard, Deanna, and Will together again was amazing. Wasn't just a brief cameo either which made it all the better.
 

Casker

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,491
Damn this episode was real wholesome. I can't imagine how it felt for long time watchers to see them reunited again.

After seeing some videos of Hugh from TNG I'm pretty sad he died :(

I'm surprised Elnor is getting a legit seperate storyline aboard the cube though.
Can't wait to see Seven of Nine again
 

futurevoid

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,993
Episode was like good comfort food for me. I love that Will and Deanna wasn't just a cameo, too.
It sucks that
Hugh died. I thought there was more to do with that character and Elnor together.
 

ArchedThunder

Uncle Beerus
Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,215
I really liked the episode but I do have one nitpick that really bugged me and that was that they made a Pizza with real animal meat that Riker's kid slaughtered.

Anyways, seems like they are heavily implying that Riker is going to show up with a Starfleet ship in the climax.
 

MidweekCoyote

Member
Mar 23, 2018
883
Man, I think I finally reached an episode I liked without reservation.

Can I just say how much I love Riker's and Deanna's kid? She is so quirky and the actress did a fabulous job.
 

ArchedThunder

Uncle Beerus
Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,215
Frakes referred to Oh as a Romulan on the new episode of The Ready Room. Guess that answers that question.
This is the first time we've ever seen a Romulan initiate a mind meld, right?
 

deimosmasque

Ugly, Queer, Gender-Fluid, Drive-In Mutant, yes?
Moderator
Apr 22, 2018
14,326
Tampa, Fl
I really liked the episode but I do have one nitpick that really bugged me and that was that they made a Pizza with real animal meat that Riker's kid slaughtered.

Anyways, seems like they are heavily implying that Riker is going to show up with a Starfleet ship in the climax.

Sisco was shown cleaning clams in Deep Space Nine, I doubt he'd have to do that if they were replicated so apparently animal harvesting does still happen in the 24th
 

Fuzzy

Completely non-threatening
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
18,190
Toronto
Riker's kid calling him Captain Picard didn't bother me because all the stories she would've heard from her parents would've been from when he was a Captain but Picard referring to him as Commander Riker bothered me. He was a Captain damn it! Worst. Show. Ever.
 

EarlGreyHot

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,401
Great episode!

...are they going to connect the 'synths are evil' plotline to Discovery and control? The visions Jurati saw looked a lot like the visions of control destroying all sentient life
 

VaporSnake

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,603
That "I'm still on reserve, but it would have to be a really good reason for me to come back" line definitely setup Riker at the helm of a starship to bail Picard out of whatever trouble he ends up in at the end of the season.