According to the English manual for SMB2, it says:
Obviously they misgender her here, but I'm curious if "Birdetta" originated here or somewhere else.
Spoiler? Vivian confirmed as trans in Paper Mario TTYD remake
- Thread starter Kahhhhyle
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Obviously they misgender her here, but I'm curious if "Birdetta" originated here or somewhere else.
I got the image from a friend on Discord, so I don't know how accurate this is, but is this actually what Goombella says about Vivian? Pretty cool if it's real.
is this official Nintendo content? Because the NA branch of Nintendo at the time took a lot of liberties in the user manuals, iirc. Like just adding info that wasn't at all in the japanese manual.
This was what the original GameCube version had Goombella say in English, so I'm glad they kept it now that Vivian is confirmed to be trans.I got the image from a friend on Discord, so I don't know how accurate this is, but is this actually what Goombella says about Vivian? Pretty cool if it's real.
Apologies if it was clarified in the thread already, just tuning in quick from work.
I am curious what the "new" Japanese text is like, has anyone seen it?
I am curious what the "new" Japanese text is like, has anyone seen it?
Oh, I didn't remember that. I wonder if they kept that. I have heard the GameCube Japanese version said something like "She was a man"
It would make sense for them to keep the OG English text. If anything, the Japanese version is more likely to be changed to be more respectful of Vivian.
It warms my heart to see so many people happy. Trans people deserve to be happy and to be seen!
Even if they right their wrongs and acknowledge her as canonically trans in the modern games, they'll probably retcon this so that Birdo is her new preferred name instead of her deadname.
Yeah, that is also my headcanon, to be honest. She's a trans woman, a woman with the preferred name of Birdo. They never brought it up again and everyone sees and treats her as a women and uses female pronouns.
Okay this isn't directed at you, I just want to make an analogy for cisgender people to understand.
Imagine if Chun-Li was only Chinese once, in the North American Manual. And for some reason they just kept her white after that. This is where I'm coming from, but from a different minority. An intersectional minority, who's hurting a lot right now.
So one can imagine the comments questioning the validity can come off as kinda offensive?
Again I get nobody means offence. And it's not annoyance aimed at any particular user. It just gets tiring sometimes.
I got the image from a friend on Discord, so I don't know how accurate this is, but is this actually what Goombella says about Vivian? Pretty cool if it's real.
she also says that in the original, despite the description saying he instead of she
at least in the french version
YES! Just thinking that she helps Mario regain his lost identity is so perfect.
idk, birdo has always seemed like a pretty meanspirited joke to me. like, "oh the gross freak character with a wretched mouth tube also thinks they're a pretty woman"
I don't think any one is saying birdo is not trans but questioning the name birdetta.
I feel the only thing that comes of that way Is that birdetta blurb since birdo is not even a gendered name. A few of the younger people where I work know her as a girl Yoshi so normal people aren't seeing her as a gross freak just another aspect of the Mario world.
And Nintendo themselves acknowledges her
Yeah this is what I am saying, IIRC outside of captain rainbow she also uses the womans facilities in one of the 3ds sports games and I think valentines cards. No one is denying birdo is a trans woman just the use of birdetta in the NA manual.
I'd ask about what the game's manual in Japan says about Birdo, but did the American SMB2 come out in Japan at the time? I guess we could check the manuals for the GBA remakes, but I doubt they kept that detail in either language.
Anyway, trans rights mother fucker, ooh-rah, cool and good. 💖
Anyway, trans rights mother fucker, ooh-rah, cool and good. 💖
it's actually a pretty faithful localization. the JP manual says pretty much the same thing
Oh, this is absolutely lovely. I wasn't aware of the original context, and I'm pleasantly surprised to see it corrected in the new release!
I probably should've clarified that it says this in the Doki Doki Panic manual, which came more than a year before the US SMB2
The context of Birdo goes hand in hand with a specific okama stereotype which goes all the way back to the Edo period, and has since been a reclaimed term used by japanese celebrities like Matsuko Deluxe. Fully subjective, but I feel like the idea behind Birdo was not PARTICULARLY great, but the character has evolved significantly since then.
View: https://youtu.be/siDZaK6puF8?si=Ng27VqNBSOFMBMH7
Huh, I wanted to look that up, since I knew Birdo's name in Japan is Catherine, but yeah, they really did say more or less the same thing, just that Catherine would be preferred to be called Cathie.
Just FYI you probably wanna change that to jp, what you wrote is an ethnic slur.
Which always struck me as odd, since both names are typically considered feminine. It's almost like the joke didn't quite make it through translation... though they kept the "thinks he's a girl" part.
I wouldn't use the word jap in any sentence. It's categorized as a slur.
In the remake, Vivian just says she's trans here in a very explicit way.
Got it pre-loaded and have a bottle of Pepsi and a big bag of skittles ready for the unlock!
Edited, but I got a stupid question, is this something that is considered a slur to japanese people or americans consider this a slur? I've lived 2 years in Aoyama and I would say the abreviations "JAP" "JPN" and "JP" all the time. Same thing in Europe.
It's a slur that was wildly used in America against the Japanese during world war 2.
Japanese Americans are the ones who are sensitive to it, though I'm sure there are people in Japan who don't like it either.
Definitely American during WW2. I think if you want to use that abbreviation in a Western context, I'd make sure to capitalize it, since AFAIK it was always used as a word (ie, "jap") and not an abbreviation. I've always used JP or JPN, depending on whether I want two or three letter abbreviations.
So...
I'm listening to an upload of the remake's version of the Shadow Sister's theme and...
Amazing.
I'm listening to an upload of the remake's version of the Shadow Sister's theme and...
Amazing.
Not to be rude but I have no idea why you'd expect anything better from Twitter in general, especially these days