Spoiler? Vivian confirmed as trans in Paper Mario TTYD remake

[Great Martinez Jr.]

Honestly wild to see how much progress has been made in the past 20 years - I remember first learning about Vivian being trans in the Japanese version (clumsily written or otherwise) and the perception that it was some kind of taboo, mature subject that Nintendo would never dream of including in a Western release. But here it is, as clear as can be, without any shame or censorship or anything, the way it always should have been. So cool to see.

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Yeah, used to be that these kind of topics were considered taboo for any media aimed at children.

It's definitely nice to see the progress in that respect.

Exactly, which makes them having to dance around Pearlina being a thing weirder. But again, it's good to see progress from Nintendo. I just hope they keep moving forward.

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Honestly, some of the dialogue in Side Order gets so close to outright stating "yeah, they're dating", I wonder what exactly is Nintendo's hang up there with properly confirming it.

But well, baby steps and all that.

On a related note, that IGN headline is absolute garbage.

Yes, it's a departure from the English localization but it's also restoring the original Japanese intent and that's way the hell more important.

It's just ragebaiting localization weirdos.

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No, that headline is not going to make certain people rage about "the insidious woke agenda being at it again", no sir! *Facepalm*

What the hell are you doing, IGN?

 

[Ashes of Dreams]

WOW! I am actually completely shocked. Thrilled, of course. But also shocked. I never played this game but I remember hearing talk about how this was something in the Japanese version that was removed for the localization. So if I understand this correctly they not only restored this with the new translation but there's also new lines in both versions to be more direct about it too? That's a huge step for Nintendo. I bought Guilty Gear Strive and all it's DLC to support their trans inclusion. I will buy this too once I have a bit of extra money, even if I never get around to playing it.

 

[Foolhardy]

This is good.

Now confirm a trans man Link to finish the fight.

 

[Mr.Adele]

Now Birdo!!

 

[Suede]

Go, Vivian! 🏳️‍⚧️

 

[Biske]

Thats awesome

 

[Choco Momonga]

big W

 

[NukeRunner]

WOW! I am actually completely shocked. Thrilled, of course. But also shocked. I never played this game but I remember hearing talk about how this was something in the Japanese version that was removed for the localization. So if I understand this correctly they not only restored this with the new translation but there's also new lines in both versions to be more direct about it too? That's a huge step for Nintendo. I bought Guilty Gear Strive and all it's DLC to support their trans inclusion. I will buy this too once I have a bit of extra money, even if I never get around to playing it.

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You should definitely get around to it, it's an amazing game.

 

[dglavimans]

That's so cool! Representation matters

 

[TheGummyBear]

Smashing that pre-load button like Paper Mario with a mallet.

Lovely to see the western release grow a spine and restore the original context. 🏳️‍⚧️

 

[Taruranto]

I'm more surprised people though it was good get censored in 2024. It wasn't even censored in the other languages like Spanish and Italian back then, it was purely an English thing.

 

[TheEchosOfTheCyborg]

Like with discussions of a character being gay/bi/pan etc or the very existence of queer people in a work of fiction (remembering those really embarrassing ERA thread where people were attacking OPs when discussing Aloy coming out queer or the very existence of gay people on FFXVI), talking about a character being trans, especially one already known to be in most languages for decades should not be a spoiler.

It's an unfair double standard and othering that is rarely applied to cis and straight people and couples in fiction (like if two popular straight characters get together, YOU WILL KNOW FAST), it's often used to bully non-straight and non-cis people from talking or being excited (which I do not buy is accidental) and quite bluntly is a sign of "spoiler culture" going too far; here's a hint, if you're attacking LGBTQ+ people for being happy about representation in a game (which in my experience, ENCOURAGES THEM TO BUY, no joke, I'm buying the Remake now BECAUSE of this news), because "spoilers", you're the villain in that situation.

This SHOULD be big news, it should not be hidden because cis people want our existence hidden because "spoilers"

 

[HBK]

Honestly wild to see how much progress has been made in the past 20 years - I remember first learning about Vivian being trans in the Japanese version (clumsily written or otherwise) and the perception that it was some kind of taboo, mature subject that Nintendo would never dream of including in a Western release. But here it is, as clear as can be, without any shame or censorship or anything, the way it always should have been. So cool to see.

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40 years even. Castlevania got most of its religious references removed remember? 😂

It's good that the localization is more faithful to the original scrip, especially when the previous localization was weirdly transphobic.

As someone who replayed DQ11 recently, I feel the localization really did a bad job on Sylvia's character for exemple, even if it may have been « well intended » (to avoid misrepresentation I mean).

 

[Finiri6143]

40 years even. Castlevania got most of its religious references removed remember? 😂

It's good that the localization is more faithful to the original scrip, especially when the previous localization was weirdly transphobic.

As someone who replayed DQ11 recently, I feel the localization really did a bad job on Sylvia's character for exemple, even if it may have been « well intended » (to avoid misrepresentation I mean).

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So what did the localization mess up on as far as with Sylvando's character?

 

[plufim]

Ok nintendo, you did good.

Now if you want to really kick it up a notch, it's time to confirm Samus as a trans woman.

 

[Kyuuji]

Well this is a lovely thread to wake up to 🏳️‍⚧️

Buying this today, I never played the original.

 

[HBK]

So what did the localization mess up on as far as with Sylvando's character?

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The short version: Even if there are arguments which could be made with regard to anime stereotypes (especially gay stereotypes) about how to interpret the character (which could explain the localization), and even if there is undoubtedly gender ambiguity in the Japanese VO, in Japanese he's not Sylvando, she's Sylvia, and there are elements pointing to her being trans, even if this is debatable, as the devs seem to see him as a man (even though the pronouns are mostly feminine, being called big sister and all that, which goes back to anime gay stereotypes).

It's a complex topic, but playing with Japanese VO kinda baffled me hearing all the discrepancies with the localization.

 

[xGeneral Ice]

I'm sorry it's 1 am and I'm dumb and can't read right. So Vivian was originally a boy transitioning to a girl right?

Either way it is, I'm happy. Representation matters and I was rooting for Nintendo to choose this path. 🏳️‍⚧️

 

[Tiny Chihuahueño]

Cool for you guys in the US, but we always knew she was trans in Spain at least

 

[Giga Man]

Good. Vivian is the best. My favorite partner in all the games.

 

[Kain-Nosgoth]

in most european translations, including french and italian back then, they already kept it even though it wasn't great how it was described... it was "he pretends to be a girl, but he's a boy"

i don't remember how it was in dialogues though, that's just the character description in-game and can't find screenshots

 

[Vivi]

Props to Nintendo so happy they did this! I was actually starting to worry the closer we were getting to launch that maybe they had changed something or completely removed the dialogue for some weird reason but no they kept it and even kind of improved and expanded on it! Let's goo!

 

[Gorger]

I am feeling so out of date I haven't played any Mario games in ages and didn't even know about this character, so that's cool and awesome to see.

 

[mrmickfran]

View: https://x.com/SomethingInWorl/status/1792985117943574557

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Amazing

 

[Tagovailoa]

This is so awesome.

 

[Kyuuji]

Alright preordered and downloading now ready for release 🍄🌈

 

[Vash]

You know what's hilarious, is that some are now trying to do some weird performance art thing, I guess, where they claim that those who want more LGBTQIA+ representation in games, and are happy with this change, are "celebrating transphobia being put back into the game" and man... What a fucking pathetic reach.

This only means we can crush transphobes in the game as Mario, WITH A HAMMER!

 

[Naijaboy]

Good job Nintendo.

 

[Solid SOAP]

You know what's hilarious, is that some are now trying to do some weird performance art thing, I guess, where they claim that those who want more LGBTQIA+ representation in games, and are happy with this change, are "celebrating transphobia being put back into the game" and man... What a fucking pathetic reach.

This only means we can crush transphobes in the game as Mario, WITH A HAMMER!

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I keep hearing about these people, but I haven't actually seen any posts. Pics?

 

[Aurica]

Oh.

"体は オトコのコだけど
ココロは カワイイ オンナのコなのあなたの やさしい キモチに
アタイも オトメゴコロで こたえたいの"

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Heheheh fuck yeah. I knew assholes would say "Oh, woke Treehouse translated it that way," but the original is undeniable.

 

[PallasKitten]

i know this is written for kids but holy god lack of kanji makes this so hard to read lmao

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I rewrote it with kanji so it's hopefully a bit easier to read (and hopefully I didn't make any typos, my Japanese isn't great):

体は男の子だけど
心は可愛い女の子なのあなたの優しい気持ちに
アタイも乙女心で答えたいの

On topic, it's definitely a pleasant surprise. Was kinda expecting them to just erase any hints of her being trans again like back in the original English localisation.

 

[coffeecat]

Reading about this yesterday made me really happy. Nintendo could have easily taken the easy way out and just left the localization as is, or left things deliberately ambiguous and treat Vivian like queerbaiting. Vivian was one of my favourites in TTYD and it means a lot to me that her identity is being embraced and represented fully.

In 2024, seeing one of the extremely few positive trans characters in games in a 20 year old title from friggin' Nintendo of all companies was not on my bingo card.

 

[Masterspeed]

Hell yeah!

 

[julia crawford]

VERY good

 

[Lumination]

Fantastic news for a fantastic character for a fantastic game.

 

[Godai]

Amazing news! More positivity and inclusion please!

 

[InfiniDragon]

So excited for the chuds to be angry and for Nintendo to do what they do best, not give a fuck

Shoutout to Nintendo, you guys rule

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If there's one thing Nintendo does at a masterclass level apart from making games, it's not giving a fuck what anyone thinks, for better or worse.

And luckily today, it's definitely for the better. Good going on this Nintendo.

 

[blamite]

I'm more surprised people though it was good get censored in 2024. It wasn't even censored in the other languages like Spanish and Italian back then, it was purely an English thing.

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I just assumed they'd just directly copy over the original English script and make only the minimum necessary changes. I haven't really been paying attention to how much has been updated in other parts of the game, but it's great that the put in the extra effort and made this change.

 

[Grimm Fandango]

This is pretty neat. I was someone who only played the GCN version and had no idea this difference existed.

 

[Lotus]

I just assumed they'd just directly copy over the original English script and make only the minimum necessary changes. I haven't really been paying attention to how much has been updated in other parts of the game, but it's great that the put in the extra effort and made this change.

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Yea I've been seeing the occasional whining here and there on Twitter about people having an issue with a few changes like removing the catcalling that Goombella went through as an example. Nothing egregious either way. This is the first big one I've heard about, and thankfully it's all for the better.

 

[Biestmann]

Great stuff and amazing to see!!

 

[Lady Dimitrescu]

CAN WE NOW GET NINTENDO TO STOP DEADNAMING BIRDETTA?

 

[MoonlitSeer]

Oh hell ya! You love to see it. I never played the original (I've actually only played Super Paper Mario), but I was planning to pick this up from the library and play through it, now I'll definitely make sure to do so sooner rather than later.

Huge win in my eyes.

 

[ClickyCal']

CAN WE NOW GET NINTENDO TO STOP DEADNAMING BIRDETTA?

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Is this an actual official from something Nintendo?

 

[Finiri6143]

CAN WE NOW GET NINTENDO TO STOP DEADNAMING BIRDETTA?

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??? I know in Japanese her name is Catherine, but I've never heard of this name.

 

[Sacul64]

Very happy to see and pleasantly surprised that they went all the way with it.

 

[Lady Dimitrescu]

Is this an actual official from something Nintendo?

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???

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[Crashman]

Is this an actual official from something Nintendo?

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I think its that the US SMB2 manual said that Birdo would prefer to be called Birdetta.

 

[DevilPuncher]

I said this in the review thread, but I'll repeat:

This is very fucking cool. Great job by the localizers and props to NoA for letting them do this.

 

[ClickyCal']

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Oh yeah, then this should absolutely happen.