Deleted member 10737

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Nintendo will probably drop the 4. The "4" was only necessary to show Nintendo fans it was a continuation of the Metroid Prime series. So, all of us here know what it is, but millions and millions of people have ZERO clue.

But if they do a Metroid Prime Trilogy HD prior, then they could use that to keep the "4", but still I wouldn't be surprised if it's called Metroid Prime Begins or something as a soft reboot of some kind for brand new fans.
this is their chance to grow the series' audience and introduce the new nintendo fans to one of their lesser known series with a great, different game than what they've offered so far on the switch. it'd be dumb to ruin that and limit the game's potential with a title like "metroid prime 4: subtitle". whether people want to accept it or not, that "4" scares people away.

This one definitely is not going to happen. The games without prime in the title are the 2d side scrollers, the prime ones are the first person games, it's an entirely deliberate distinction.
i know that, but it's not like that naming convention is set in stone. there can be a 3D metroid game without the prime title. i mean it already happened once before :)
 

LinkStrikesBack

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
16,553
this is their chance to grow the series' audience and introduce the new nintendo fans to one of their lesser known series with a great, different game than what they've offered so far on the switch. it'd be dumb to ruin that and limit the game's potential with a title like "metroid prime 4: subtitle". whether people want to accept it or not, that "4" scares people away.

The Witcher 3: wild Hunt outsold the prior titles in the series massively despite being a much more lore heavy series than metroid ever will be.

I think you're making a fuss over nothing.

i know that, but it's not like that naming convention is set in stone. there can be a 3D metroid game without the prime title. i mean it already happened once before

What? No it hasn't. It deliberately refers to the games were the action is almost entirely through a first person behind the visor viewpoint, which absolutely has not happened without the prime subtitle.
 

Defect

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,778
Agreed, I fear that Nintendo would make a conservative game (last one was released long ago so maybe they think that the formula is "fresh"), and I'd happy if they shake the formula ala BotW. You know what I want? A Metroid game without items gating areas.
Then don't play Metroid.
 

Deleted member 10737

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
49,774
What? No it hasn't. It deliberately refers to the games were the action is almost entirely through a first person behind the visor viewpoint, which absolutely has not happened without the prime subtitle.
you said the games without prime in the title are 2D sidescrollers, i said that's not true
i'm not really trying to make a fuss, you're right, it may not be important in the end, but i think being on a successful platform, and being the first HD metroid game, the game can use every little thing that might help it reach a new audience and find its place among the top nintendo series. part of that may be needing to seem like a brand new start.
 

chrisPjelly

Avenger
Oct 29, 2017
10,541
Geoff is getting better and better gets. Never imagined that the VGAs would go head to head with e3 in terms of exciting reveals.

With that said, I'm a little worried for Prime 4. Not because the game will be bad or anything, but because I think people will have unreasonable expectations for it. The fps genre has zoomed LIGHTYEARS ahead in ambition and scale since Prime 3, and I really don't think it's going to wow anybody beyond "it looks good for a Switch game". Hope I'm proven wrong.
 

NoName999

One Winged Slayer
Banned
Oct 29, 2017
5,906
ITT: Era continuing to oversell Metroid for some ungodly reason I may never understand
 

Tibarn

Member
Oct 31, 2017
13,378
Barcelona
The concept would be kind of antithetical to the genre though. Basically you go full open world ala BotW, or make it more of a linear shooter ala DOOM.
Or maybe making that each new area can be completed 100% with the items you have, a middle ground between the two options you said. Metroid Prime games were fairly lineal, imagine that you have a hub area or a serie of interconnected areas, but each different area only needs the items you have or you can obtain in this area. This way, you don't need to revisit all the places to obtain things, and will make another Temple Keys/Chozo Artifacts scenario impossible, and each area can be big and have lots of secrets anyways.

When I was playing Samus Returns, I thought: I think that I played enough games that makes you remember inaccessible areas to later go with some power up and find some secret, I thinkl that mechanic is something of the past and BotW proved that you can make lots of good content and puzzles with only a few starting options.
 

Instro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,160
Or maybe making that each new area can be completed 100% with the items you have, a middle ground between the two options you said. Metroid Prime games were fairly lineal, imagine that you have a hub area or a serie of interconnected areas, but each different area only needs the items you have or you can obtain in this area. This way, you don't need to revisit all the places to obtain things, and will make another Temple Keys/Chozo Artifacts scenario impossible, and each area can be big and have lots of secrets anyways.

When I was playing Samus Returns, I thought: I think that I played enough games that makes you remember inaccessible areas to later go with some power up and find some secret, I thinkl that mechanic is something of the past and BotW proved that you can make lots of good content and puzzles with only a few starting options.

Edit

Somehow part of my post ended up here, I've responded fully below.
 
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Oct 25, 2017
3,080
The concept would be kind of antithetical to the genre though. Basically you go full open world ala BotW, or make it more of a linear shooter ala DOOM.

You don't have to have an open world game to free the player. Dark Souls is a good example where player skill determines where they can go, but still gates progression at points.

Metroid already has a long history of sequence breaking so I don't think this is a weird concept at all. Metroid 2 introduced an open structure, and Super Metroid has areas designed for you to sequence break if you're skilled. So just amp that up for the next game. It could be a normal Metroid structure, but items aren't exclusively keys, and you can more easily use them creatively to progress.
 

Oddish1

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,836
It's possible they show MP4 at the Game Awards but I think Nintendo is going to save it until next year, maybe have a Metroid blow out at E3. The Reggie shirt doesn't mean anything.
 

Tibarn

Member
Oct 31, 2017
13,378
Barcelona
and you can more easily use them creatively to progress.
This the problem with Metroid IMO: creativity. Prime did something "interesting", associating materials to items, so you at least need to think: okay this pillar is made of X and Y weapon is good to break X. It's nothing revolutionary, but it worked really weall at the time with the idea of the scan visor. On the other hand, colored doors are lazy and boring, they should get rid of them in MP4.

I would say looking at Pretty 2017 would be the way to go. As in, the game has ability locks to a degree, but you can access areas in such a variety of ways
I didn't play Prey 2017, but I like the idea. I don't want exactly sequence breaking ala Super Metroid, I'd prefer that the game embraces the idea of multiple solutions and different ways to do the things.
 

Instro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,160
Or maybe making that each new area can be completed 100% with the items you have, a middle ground between the two options you said. Metroid Prime games were fairly lineal, imagine that you have a hub area or a serie of interconnected areas, but each different area only needs the items you have or you can obtain in this area. This way, you don't need to revisit all the places to obtain things, and will make another Temple Keys/Chozo Artifacts scenario impossible, and each area can be big and have lots of secrets anyways.

When I was playing Samus Returns, I thought: I think that I played enough games that makes you remember inaccessible areas to later go with some power up and find some secret, I thinkl that mechanic is something of the past and BotW proved that you can make lots of good content and puzzles with only a few starting options.

I think Prey(2017) might be the way to go. The game is ability locked to a degree, but there are often a variety of ways to access new areas that don't require you to have a specific ability or skill. Some of the games weapons and skills are also very interactive with the environment allowing sequence breaking and creative solutions to problems. In essence I think Metroid should look to the immersive sim genre for inspiration. Lots of interactivity, player freedom, large array of abilities that allow for creative solutions to exploration and puzzles. BotW was definitely pulled from that genre as well, just blew it up into a large open world.

Edit

I think I double posted somehow lol, here is my completed response.
 

carlosrox

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,270
Vancouver BC
The Reggie shirt doesn't mean anything.

Well Reggie knows damn well the reaction that's gonna stir up considering how people reacted to his Metroid pin so it could mean something. Wearing that shirt for that particular occasion seems like a possible hint. I could see it. Don't count it out.

Plus I don't believe his Metroid pin wasn't a clue that Metroid was being worked on anyways, how about that?
 

Oddish1

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,836
Well Reggie knows damn well the reaction that's gonna stir up considering how people reacted to his Metroid pin so it could mean something. Wearing that shirt for that particular occasion seems like a possible hint. I could see it. Don't count it out.

Plus I don't believe his Metroid pin wasn't a clue that Metroid was being worked on anyways, how about that?
There weren't any Metroid games being worked on at the time Reggie wore the Metroid pin unless they were cancelled. Samus Returns wasn't in development at the time, Prime 4 definitely wasn't. So Reggie's Metroid pin didn't mean anything, and it's likely his shirt also doesn't mean anything.
 

Opa-Pa

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,810
What's with Era always coming up with weird-ass concepts for Metroid games, ew. Metroid is one of the tightest formulas Nintendo has, which is why it's directly and indirectly inspired so many other games through the years and spawned two games widely considered among the best of all time. But no, let's shake up the formula drastically because reasons.

Anyway this is evidently a MP4 tease, and honestly it's about time we actually see the game, but I almost wish we got to see a new 2D one developed by Mercury Steam instead. SR was so good and I always preferred the 2D formula a bit better. I'm excited to see what MS can pull off with more creative freedom.
 

requiem

Member
Dec 3, 2017
1,448
What's with Era always coming up with weird-ass concepts for Metroid games, ew. Metroid is one of the tightest formulas Nintendo has, which is why it's directly and indirectly inspired so many other games through the years and spawned two games widely considered among the best of all time. But no, let's shake up the formula drastically because reasons.

Anyway this is evidently a MP4 tease, and honestly it's about time we actually see the game, but I almost wish we got to see a new 2D one developed by Mercury Steam instead. SR was so good and I always preferred the 2D formula a bit better. I'm excited to see what MS can pull off with more creative freedom.
Or perhaps they could unveil a new 2D entry alongside MP4 gameplay?

...

Why do I do this to myself?
 

Dmax3901

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,989
I've thought this makes the most sense. Absent at E3, absent at the most recent direct, announced over a year ago. Also couple that with the tradition BotW had of showing up (even having a gameplay presentation) at the Game Awards... it's a good fit.
 

Wamb0wneD

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
18,735
You don't have to have an open world game to free the player. Dark Souls is a good example where player skill determines where they can go, but still gates progression at points.

Metroid already has a long history of sequence breaking so I don't think this is a weird concept at all. Metroid 2 introduced an open structure, and Super Metroid has areas designed for you to sequence break if you're skilled. So just amp that up for the next game. It could be a normal Metroid structure, but items aren't exclusively keys, and you can more easily use them creatively to progress.
Sequence breaking is cool because you break the sequences of the item gating. Without the item gating there would be no sequences to break.
And Dark Souls has no sequence breaking whatsoever. It has different paths to go on and cool shortcuts/looping leveldesign, but not a single bit of sequence breaking (running through all enemy encounters to get a weapon etc. isn't sequence breaking.)
Items never were exclusively keys, at least most of them had purposes in traversal and combat alike. The great thing about Metroid is finding the Spiderball halfway through the game and going back to some earlier part and use it on a rail you saw there 5 hours ago.
Could they do more than energy and missile tanks waitng there for you? Of course. Often they do, namely open up new parts, which then is labaled as a key and gating by some people here. Should they stop doing that kind of stuff alltogether? Fuck no.
Look, I'm not saying you are wrong just that Bayonetta is the all around better series.
They couldn't be further away from each other genre/gameplay wise so I'm not sure what the purpose of this is lol..
 
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Wamb0wneD

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
18,735
I've thought this makes the most sense. Absent at E3, absent at the most recent direct, announced over a year ago. Also couple that with the tradition BotW had of showing up (even having a gameplay presentation) at the Game Awards... it's a good fit.
It's an especially good fit because a huge audience that never tunes in to directs is present and will watch whatever is thrown at them (provided the pacing of the show stays on the level of last year or improves). If they nail the trailer like they nailed the Odyssey and BotW ones this will be damn good.
I am perfectly aware, thank you.
Then why bring it up in a thread not about Bayo 3?
 

Deleted member 6730

User requested account closure
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Oct 25, 2017
11,526
It's an especially good fit because a huge audience that never tunes in to directs is present and will watch whatever is thrown at them (provided the pacing of the show stays on the level of last year or improves). If they nail the trailer like they nailed the Odyssey and BotW ones this will be damn good.

Then why bring it up in a thread not about Bayo 3?
Because I said "I'd much rather have Bayo 3" and somebody was like "LOL Bayo makes me flaccid" and I was like "What?! Insulting Bayo is like insulting my mama's cooking. You don't do that!"

Honestly, I expect both especially considering Platinum's comments recently and Nintendo had two announcements last year so why not this year.
 

Wamb0wneD

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
18,735
Because I said "I'd much rather have Bayo 3" and somebody was like "LOL Bayo makes me flaccid" and I was like "What?! Insulting Bayo is like insulting my mama's cooking. You don't do that!"

Honestly, I expect both especially considering Platinum's comments recently and Nintendo had two announcements last year so why not this year.
Would be great if that was the case, yeah. Everyone would be happy then. They won't go home with awards this time so might as well bring the A-game on the trailer/gameplay front.
 

carlosrox

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,270
Vancouver BC
Oct 25, 2017
3,080
Sequence breaking is cool because you break the sequences of the item gating. Without the item gating there would be no sequences to break.

I'm not sure you understand what I'm suggesting. Let's take a look at BotW. The shrines, some of which are extremely linear in design, can be partially or outright skipped by clever use of the very tools meant to solve the puzzles blocking the way. That is exactly the same as any other sequence break except the ability and freedom to do so was planned, but the method of exploitation completely left up to the player. What I'm saying is the prime series needs to drop the 'puzzles' that are 'scan the item to see if you can blow it up or not'. There's no flexibility there. Sometimes you can jump over it, or get around it somehow, but that's not part of the design. Make this part of the design and it becomes much more interesting.

And Dark Souls has no sequence breaking whatsoever. It has different paths to go on and cool shortcuts/looping leveldesign, but not a single bit of sequence breaking (running through all enemy encounters to get a weapon etc. isn't sequence breaking.)

I only bring up Dark Souls as it has a similar interconnected world structure to Metroid Prime, however the difference in Dark Souls is that you can take whatever path you want as long as you're skilled enough to take it on. Apply puzzles to this and it becomes a good start of how I imagine a more open Metroid.

Items never were exclusively keys, at least most of them had purposes in traversal and combat alike. The great thing about Metroid is finding the Spiderball halfway through the game and going back to some earlier part and use it on a rail you saw there 5 hours ago.

It's less about the keys and more about the doors. Like I said, there's too many "you need missiles to open this", rather than, "I can probably use missiles here to knock a thing into another thing that opens the door."

Items never were exclusively keys, at least most of them had purposes in traversal and combat alike. The great thing about Metroid is finding the Spiderball halfway through the game and going back to some earlier part and use it on a rail you saw there 5 hours ago.
Could they do more than energy and missile tanks waitng there for you? Of course. Often they do, namely open up new parts, which then is labaled as a key and gating by some people here. Should they stop doing that kind of stuff alltogether? Fuck no.

See, something like the spiderball could be much more interesting than it is. There are a few good rail segments, but what if it did more than just attaching to rails. What if it could grip any surface for a short amount of time? Not only can you use that ability in rail puzzles, but you can combine that with your other abilities to solve completely unrelated puzzles or obstacles.

So, I'm not saying progress should never be impeded, but that players should have more freedom in the way they solve problems. As you said, sequence breaking is cool. And I'm saying it should be embraced.
 
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Trrzs

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,144
They will show a world premiere video starting with a Banjo-Kazooie cinematic, everybody freak out thinking about a new game in the series for Xbox One, then Duck Hunt appears! Banjo & Kazooie as the first DLC characters for Smash Bros Ultimate!
 

BaShaBeSho

Member
Oct 26, 2017
91
Kuwait
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Khaos Prime

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,857
Seems likely. CGI Trailer at TGAs. Gameplay at E3. It will be the main game at E3 like Smash was this year, Odyssey was last year and BOTW the year before.
 

Skittzo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
41,037
Seems likely. CGI Trailer at TGAs. Gameplay at E3. It will be the main game at E3 like Smash was this year, Odyssey was last year and BOTW the year before.

The difference is that Smash and 3D Mario are series' whose installments are guaranteed to sell >10M units. Metroid/Prime is lucky to sell 2M+.

It will not be the big focus of E3 2019. I doubt there will actually be one big focus of E3 2019.
 

DarkSora

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 28, 2017
6,212
They will show a world premiere video starting with a Banjo-Kazooie cinematic, everybody freak out thinking about a new game in the series for Xbox One, then Duck Hunt appears! Banjo & Kazooie as the first DLC characters for Smash Bros Ultimate!
I'd be perfectly OK with this.
 

Sander VF

The Fallen
Oct 28, 2017
26,239
Tbilisi, Georgia
You come up on a steep cliff or something like that seems inaccessable with your abilities.

There are geysers and all sorts of running water around the place.

You can get up there with the spider ball, but if you have the ice beam, which can freeze bodies and streams of water solid, you may create ice platforms to scale the obstacle instead.

No one tells you about this application.

And this is how I imagine evolving Metroid.

Sequence breaking turned into core mechanic and ability to sequence break at any moment by taking advantage of systems built into the game. You are gated by items, but can circumvent that through this game's own "chemistry engine" and AI behaviour. You can get the required items, but if you can trick a critter into doing something here or figure out a yet unseen application of a base item over there, you can get through just fine.