He spent years insisting he'd found clues that Sony was going to update the PS3 browser...or something? I never understood, but I BELIEVED IN HIM.
(I didn't)
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Sony details their Cross Point ReRAM SSD technology [hard specs, potential PS5 SSD tech]
- Thread starter DieH@rd
- Start date
He spent years insisting he'd found clues that Sony was going to update the PS3 browser...or something? I never understood, but I BELIEVED IN HIM.
(I didn't)
Only goku blue? I was hoping to get Ultra Instinct, I'd pay $600 if we can get UI rather than $500 Blue
I bet it will eventually make a change in game design. I don't think we will see that effect at first.
But even ignoring that, I'm excited at the prospect of turning on my ps5 and playing within a minute or so. And so many things that are built into games to mask load screens will be gone too. My time is pretty limited so I will value these improvements.
Lol, I mean, we are still bound by the speed of light, here.
Is Cost factor even importend if its their tech?
I mean the will fore shure not write themselfs a bill right ?
Also even in case it would cost alot - they could still put it in "for free" and use the PS5 as a technologie demonstrator.
To spread the word so to speak..
I mean the will fore shure not write themselfs a bill right ?
Also even in case it would cost alot - they could still put it in "for free" and use the PS5 as a technologie demonstrator.
To spread the word so to speak..
My favorite was that Sony could update the PS4 Pro to read 4k BluRay discs
Same way it does right now: You'll get frequent data streaming stutters and/or long loading screens.
For years I never knew Diablo 3 on PC had load times when entering portals while in a game. Until I played it on a shitty laptop without an SSD. Suddenly loading screens.
Oh wow I remember that; good times. If nothing else Jeff was passionate about getting his points across.
He was a guy who went online and found endless whitepapers and documents about all manner of insanely detailed technical things and used it to to weave together a fantasy version of what the Ps4 and Xbox One were going to be. He thoroughly believed it
Lots of it was this type of stuff
It doesnt affect high end PCs, as on PC you can already those speeds or faster.
DDR4 has as fast read speeds as those, has faster write speeds and 20 times lower latency.
32GB DDR4 in current high end PCs is quite common this days and PS5 wont have more than 32GB of this ReRAM.
The only thing that can differ is application startup time, as you need to load first to DDR, but it will be already in ReRAM from previous playthrough.
Goddamn, now that's a name I haven't heard for a looooooong time.
Conspiracy rhetoric.
But yeah, in regards to the topic I also believe it won't get used in the PS5, at least in the one we're getting next year.
Might be one hell of an addition for a PS5 Pro but based on what this sounds like, it might need a bit of extra work to be really taken advantage of, so who knows if we really see this next gen?
Would be pretty interesting if they can include some in PS5. Probably not practical to include 128GB — what games would that benefit even next gen? Wouldn't necessarily help visuals as you'd still need to load GDDR. But a smaller amount would help in-game load times just as much.
What this tells me is that we won't be getting an sad only system we're gonna get a hard drive with ssd caching, while that's better I'm very disappointed. Just give me a 1tb Samsung evo and be done with it then let me upgrade myself internally or through a special interface crap externally
Seeing his gaming related posting this turn of events isn't all that surprising
a) 128GB - ReRam is 4x-5x the cost of traditional flash, at least a few years ago.
b) Maybe - This is a DRAM intermediate which means there needs to be an accessible port similar to PCIe on PC, which will increase the cost of the entire box
c) Yes, but it will be really expensive because such a standard would require ports and memory controllers akin to Thunderbolt Ports on PC
ReRam still isn't faster than RAM so it's no DRAM replacement. The cost is too high so it's not an SSD replacement either. This tech isn't ready for a console in 2020, in my opinion.
No I mean if you currently play on a PC equipped with a slow HDD and you hammer that HDD while playing a game you will see the impact of slow storage. Which, in current games, manifests as stutters or hangs during gameplay in engines that rely on data streaming.
Of course on a current midrange PC (32GB RAM, NVME storage) you will never experience this. Future games that are build with super fast storage in mind will hopefully offer a fallback to load more data into RAM because 64GB or even more will probably be standard by 2021. Thus negate the need for fast storage cache on PCs. But that was not the point of my reply.
This is a big maybe. The PS5 will likely try and use as much off the shelf stuff as possible.
If this is a Sony solution then they need production capability. Like with the PS3, the blu ray Lazer shortage meant that they could not deliver as many PS3s as there was demand. Those slides describe either an 8 or 16 chip configuration as well.
Assuming it has this ReRAM, you also need:
standard RAM most likely GDDR6
game storage 1tb SSD?
That's really driving up the bill of materials.
It really seems unlikely to me for the PS5. Probably this will be a data centre product.
If you want to think crazy Jeff Rigby levels then you could argue that:
Sony are going to compete with Intel Optane, and one way they'll get the price down is by integrating it into the PS5, this will allow them to make purchase orders at a chip fabricator of millions rather than thousands.
And PlayStation will be able to get the parts cheap because they can buy it "at cost" off of the Sony electronics department.
Ahahahahaha
Edit:
14W at 128gb? Conforming to EU standby regulations is gonna be hard.
ec.europa.eu
"Modern appliances are increasingly connected to the internet during standby mode, consuming higher amounts of energy. This includes networked televisions and decoders, printers, game consoles and modems.
Specific requirements for network-connected standby devices were introduced in 2013.
Since January 2017 networked standby devices must not consume more than 3 to 12 Watts depending on the product."
If this is a Sony solution then they need production capability. Like with the PS3, the blu ray Lazer shortage meant that they could not deliver as many PS3s as there was demand. Those slides describe either an 8 or 16 chip configuration as well.
Assuming it has this ReRAM, you also need:
standard RAM most likely GDDR6
game storage 1tb SSD?
That's really driving up the bill of materials.
It really seems unlikely to me for the PS5. Probably this will be a data centre product.
If you want to think crazy Jeff Rigby levels then you could argue that:
Sony are going to compete with Intel Optane, and one way they'll get the price down is by integrating it into the PS5, this will allow them to make purchase orders at a chip fabricator of millions rather than thousands.
And PlayStation will be able to get the parts cheap because they can buy it "at cost" off of the Sony electronics department.
Ahahahahaha
Edit:
14W at 128gb? Conforming to EU standby regulations is gonna be hard.
Standby, networked standby and Off mode
Off mode, standby and networked standby mode. Energy efficiency of products.
ec.europa.eu
"Modern appliances are increasingly connected to the internet during standby mode, consuming higher amounts of energy. This includes networked televisions and decoders, printers, game consoles and modems.
Specific requirements for network-connected standby devices were introduced in 2013.
Since January 2017 networked standby devices must not consume more than 3 to 12 Watts depending on the product."
I mean sure, they will need to upgrade to any SSD and maybe extend their RAM and they will be fine. Developers wont care about old tech in PC space, as generally forced upgrades are quite accepted in PC world :)
So do I understand this right? The PS5 would have a small number of ReRam storage to help move data between SSD and RAM, like 128GB or maybe 32-64GB, then still have a 1TB SSD where game installs reside until called for?
please correct me if I am wrong
this tech sounds great and would explain the rumors of PS5 kits being "faster" at moving data/or booting up than Scarlett
please correct me if I am wrong
this tech sounds great and would explain the rumors of PS5 kits being "faster" at moving data/or booting up than Scarlett
So basically PS5 is likely to have an extremely fast, primary SSD of low capacity for the OS and swapfile etc. and then a regular secondary SSD for storing games?
I just hope the SSD for games isn't too advanced so it's easy to add an affordable external SSD if you want.
I just hope the SSD for games isn't too advanced so it's easy to add an affordable external SSD if you want.
It's not almost as fast as ram. It is physically impossible for something sitting on the PCIE bus to be called comparable to a device in the ram slot.
The volume of data being read is remotely comparable to the volume of data read on single channel but very few people or businesses throttle their data like that. Regular people are using dual channel configs while businesses are running quad channel configs.
As for the volume of data being written it isn't even comparable in any sense.
As usual with these things, I am always scared about the lowest common denominator.
If the PS5 is truly as fast as this says, if Scarlett is slower or devs are still making games that have to work on fucking PC's with HDD's, then maybe all this power will go to waste outside first party?
If the PS5 is truly as fast as this says, if Scarlett is slower or devs are still making games that have to work on fucking PC's with HDD's, then maybe all this power will go to waste outside first party?
Rumours floating around suggest Scarlett is slower but we don't know by how much. The Sony solution sounds really good in theory but outside of a purpose built Spiderman demo, we don't know how well it will be overall. SSD alone would be a massive jump, so we will have to wait and see what this Sony push does.
It will still be up to 1st party studios to get the best out of the tech, since they have probably had it longer.
There's a chance, sure, buy you can't keep the bar low just because of what the competition is (or may be) doing. Mechanical hard drives have been a huge bottleneck for years now. It's time to let it go.
It's kinda that way with Sony now. I don't expect anything drastic to change but at least all devs will have the added SSD speed to boost loading, even at a basic level.
really hope SSD just becomes the norm all around, with devs dropping support of HDD if it does become a bottleneck in design like star citizen seems to have done
I'm very curious about what their SSD solution for PS5 will look like, but I don't think it's this. Too risky and expensive. Maybe it will be ready for the generation after. That said, even for the PS5, Sony could certainly innovate beyond what's available for PC. But I believe it will be more in terms of architecture and interfaces than how bits are stored on a fundamental/physical level. A custom SSD controller seems likely, perhaps using on-board NAND in some novel configuration.
I think it's definitely clears up a few things. So this fast SSD technology will be used for cache purposes and not as the mass storage. And then a secondary storage will actually store all the games. My only question is that if this is the case, how much of an impact on the life of the this fast memory? I know that regular SSDs have limited lifetimes. Using them as cache is a bad idea since every write reduces it's ability to store stuff over long term.
OP
OP
14W is during heavy workload of course. Standby power will be zero or near-zero.
Microsoft has indicated a desire to be the fastest and never lose that technological lead again. Considering the fact that Sony publicly discussed this technology with engadget like a year ago, even if we assumed that Microsoft were a bunch of clueless dummies, they've known what Sony was doing for a while.
This is pretty crazy if true. If this is the case it would actually start to compete with PC again with even more convenience than a PC technically considering these specs.
The price is too high for the value it adds. I can understand how faster CPU, GPU, RAm and more Ram translates. I don't think reram will make a big difference gameplay wise beyond what SSD already adds. I mean it's nice to have a game load in under a sec rather than 4 seconds but that's not $100 nice. I did rather have the BOM go into the PS5s APU.
I'm reminded of how an sshd works, where it caches most used files I. The solid state while retaining the rest on the slower hdd.
A small reram pool with most used/current game files would work, as rarely do you need the entire game in that pool at once.
A small reram pool with most used/current game files would work, as rarely do you need the entire game in that pool at once.
Disks or RAM do not have a power consumption management like CPU. Its idle TDP will be probably around half of load TDP.
