Someone explain to me what makes Nier Automata *so* good? (no spoilers)
- Thread starter Kingpin Rogers
- Start date
Sorry, dude. What changed was that I got to Route C. Then I learned how to actually make the fun character more interesting with the chip system. Rush through Route B, there's no reason to be thorough with it and I'm pretty sure you'll get a chapter select later if you want to finish side quests. Just enjoy the little story changes when/if you can. I don't blame you for being bored.
I don't get why people hate the gameplay loop so much. It combines bullet hell arcade elements with a 3rd person Platinum style game and succeeded mostly - that's crazy!
I found the chip system charming to dig into and depending on what you do there, it's challenging too! I enjoyed the open world, it did a lot with little. The side quests littered around are sometimes really great and have some of the most memorable characters around.
I don't think it's a 10/10 game but it leaves you thinking like very few games do. It's a great 8/10 in my mind and worth sticking with. But if you hate most things about the first run, then it's mostly the story that's gonna pick up - if the gameplay is not for you, it's not for you. It happens.
I found the chip system charming to dig into and depending on what you do there, it's challenging too! I enjoyed the open world, it did a lot with little. The side quests littered around are sometimes really great and have some of the most memorable characters around.
I don't think it's a 10/10 game but it leaves you thinking like very few games do. It's a great 8/10 in my mind and worth sticking with. But if you hate most things about the first run, then it's mostly the story that's gonna pick up - if the gameplay is not for you, it's not for you. It happens.
This track and all its variants with the bulgarian-style chants give me fucking chills. One of those versions is actually my favourite track of the game, and one of the absolute standouts of this whole console gen (along with some Astral Chain tracks). It's the furthest from bland anything can possibly be.
And for the record I haven't played the other Nier game yet so that's not a factor.
I agree completely, after the fact. it just wasn't what I wanted to do be doing at the time, which seems to be a common sentiment.
It surprises me how many people say that route A isn't great and the game only really gets going in route C. Yes, route C is where everything finally comes together and I agree it's probably the peak of the game, but there's so much to love about route A too. I was sold on it pretty early on.
(Also, I don't think route B is bad... however I didn't do too many side quests in A, so my time in B was actually refreshingly new compared to others who do most side quests in A then have to go through everything again. I understand why those people would find it boring)
(Also, I don't think route B is bad... however I didn't do too many side quests in A, so my time in B was actually refreshingly new compared to others who do most side quests in A then have to go through everything again. I understand why those people would find it boring)
About your first paragraph:
I've already edited my post. "Problem" was definitely the wrong word.
I think 70-80% of my problem is the way the routes are structured.
In my mind once I finish a game I lose any interest in playing more of it unless I'm trophy hunting.
So when you finish route A, my brain tells me I'm done and anything beyond that is optional content. Now you have a game where the real ending is hidden behind that optional content.
To me that just feels like I'd be wasting my time especially since it seems to be the consensus that route B is an absolute chore and doesn't add much to the table until the end of it.
If they streamlined the routes to the point where you don't replay any parts that are basically unchanged between routes and string them together behind each other I'd feel totally different about the game.
My mind keeps wandering to The Last of Us 2 as a comparison to the way the story is being told with different routes.
If the second half of the game was route C and you had to replay most of the first half with barely any changes as route B to even get to the second half, then I wouldn't have bothered with anything beyond the first half at all and it would have been a worse game entirely.
Only good part of it is that it's the shortest route. 9S combat is just extremely boring.
I personally think it's the execution. bullet hell arcade elements are nice, but I feel they are very basic/poorly executed that it doesn't feel fun after a while.
As for regular combat, I think the character's movement/actions feel very satisfying, and the combo system alongside chips can lead to interesting combos.... but you rarely need to utilize those because of how difficulty and enemies are designed. Most of the boss battles also feel pretty boring, especially when the best boss fight of the game (the opera boss) is quite early on in the game.
I personally enjoyed the bullet hell and regular combat somewhat, but I can see why others might not like it for above reasons or any other reasons.
It's okay not to like things, OP.
I say this as someone who came away from Automata distinctly unimpressed too, and this was after completing all the routes. I obviously liked it enough to finish it, but I never felt that adoration that people seemed to throw out (almost unprompted) at the time.
There's something to be said for the clever, metatextual presentation of the narrative, but that doesn't excuse the myriad of game design problems.
I felt conflicted about this for a while, but I feel that some place emphasis more on what the game tries to accomplish, rather than what it actually achieves. I admire it from afar, respect what it's going for, but just have to admit that it's not for me.
I say this as someone who came away from Automata distinctly unimpressed too, and this was after completing all the routes. I obviously liked it enough to finish it, but I never felt that adoration that people seemed to throw out (almost unprompted) at the time.
There's something to be said for the clever, metatextual presentation of the narrative, but that doesn't excuse the myriad of game design problems.
I felt conflicted about this for a while, but I feel that some place emphasis more on what the game tries to accomplish, rather than what it actually achieves. I admire it from afar, respect what it's going for, but just have to admit that it's not for me.
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I have to study why people fell in love with Nier? I haven't seen it? No, I believe I have: back in 2013 I knew a guy who, as you say, randomly bought it and fell in love. Good guy. We happened to have differing opinions.
Do you want me to explain everything I said? Prove I can understand why people like something? Yeah, it was a pissy post. Almost a polemic and maybe I don't even agree with everything I said. But convinced I'm right? I'm not convinced you read what I wrote. It being an object d'fascination for collectors and hipsters and the fact that a lot of people, yeah, really loved the game were separate thoughts, overlapping as they might have come out. Maybe I didn't convey that. But I think what I did convey is that this is what 'i think' (I quote myself verbatim here) and not what is Right and what I Know.
And the references to classical media? Am I not allowed to use that as ammo to (justifiably) critique what I think is a lame design decision regarding cutscenes? Because that's what that was. Examples, counterexample. Pretension, I'm sure we can agree, is assuming the stance that one is cultured, worldly, whatever, in a way that one is not. Did I do that? Do I have to prove that I didn't? Explain to you the history of cinema from 1915-- and why Taro, in my opinion, is not part of it with his efforts at directing? Force you to understand that I've seen each and every film or filmmaker mentioned and understand their grasp of the frame, the camera, complete with illustrative screengrabs? I mean, just let me know, I'll be there.
The point of this absurd shitfight is yeah, there was an air of superiority. I regret that. I felt like a bag of shit. I'm no better than anyone and goddamn do I know what it's like to love an unloved piece of art.
But you telling me to grow up? I won't tell you the same thing, lest this become even more reminiscent of people fighting on myspace over who's better, fall out boy or my chemical romance, but maybe figure out how to take an opinion piece. No one was directly attacked, besides a videogame and a public figure. Near the end there I got defensive, yeah, and I got mean, but the main players in this drama hugged it and it's cool now.
But, like, whatever--if I'm gonna put my writing out there, and that's what I'm doing and what I do, some people are gonna dig it and some aren't. I get called a concussed Tim Rogers, I get called pathetic, sometimes I even grab a compliment or two, make a friend. I've got receipts but that might fall under your definition of pretension.
That's all I got. I don't know what you want from me. I just wrote a goddam essay that explained nothing and apologized for nothing. Cuz y'know I don't apologize after being insulted. Personally, I'm hoping for a good stalemate.
I get you, I do. But it's such a different experience. Completing Route A is only completing part of the first half the game. The rest of that half is told in Route B, and the last half is told in Route C. There's nothing optional about those routes. Think of them as episodes or chapters in a larger story. And again, you only really have to repeat experiences once, at which point you can blast through them, keeping in mind there are turns in the narrative worth paying attention to.
Route B could be told in a some other manner, but this is indeed Yoko Taro's shtick, and I don't know if the would hit the same if it were done differently. He seems to be concerned with telling a story in a conventional manner where there's a hero, the hero's companions, their enemies, and the world around them. Straightfoward. That's Route A. Route B shows you the same exact situation from a new perspective, positing that these companions and your enemies aren't the simple NPC automata they seem to be. Frankly, I think this a meta-narrative about the very structure of video game narrative, character, and the mechanics that tie them together. I don't think it's ever particularly deep or original story wise, but as an experience it is something unique. I also think it's one of the few stories that can only really be told in a video game, and that also seems to me to be what Yoko Taro wants to create, which is worth humoring.
after i finished the game, at that time i considered it as GOTY because
1. superb story, even until now i'm always thinking about it from time to time
2. i dropped my jaw during ending, what a twist, so memorable
3. amazing music
however the melee combat got boring pretty fast and bit repetitive, but i can manage to get through because story and interaction between character was so captivating, btw i kinda like top down shooter parts
so if you don't find any interesting moment from the beginning, particularly story and the characters banter, i don't think you would enjoy this game
1. superb story, even until now i'm always thinking about it from time to time
2. i dropped my jaw during ending, what a twist, so memorable
3. amazing music
however the melee combat got boring pretty fast and bit repetitive, but i can manage to get through because story and interaction between character was so captivating, btw i kinda like top down shooter parts
so if you don't find any interesting moment from the beginning, particularly story and the characters banter, i don't think you would enjoy this game
admittedly I've soured on the game a bit since I first played it. the narrative and music are awesome, but the actual moment to moment gameplay falls a bit flat for me.
what's the point in having a combat system like that if you can just mash your way through even on the hardest difficulty? it's totally brainless. I didn't enjoy finagling the drone, so I just gave up on it when I played the hard mode. I echo people's complaints about route B too - especially when the character's gameplay is strictly worse than 2B's, being left with only one attack button and the stupid bullet hell hacking thing that totally stops whatever momentum the combat might've had
the elephant in the room whenever I try to recommend this game to someone is the character design. 2B doesn't need to be dressed the way she is, and it gives the game a sleazy feel which I think is to its detriment, particularly when such a good narrative is hidden behind it
what's the point in having a combat system like that if you can just mash your way through even on the hardest difficulty? it's totally brainless. I didn't enjoy finagling the drone, so I just gave up on it when I played the hard mode. I echo people's complaints about route B too - especially when the character's gameplay is strictly worse than 2B's, being left with only one attack button and the stupid bullet hell hacking thing that totally stops whatever momentum the combat might've had
the elephant in the room whenever I try to recommend this game to someone is the character design. 2B doesn't need to be dressed the way she is, and it gives the game a sleazy feel which I think is to its detriment, particularly when such a good narrative is hidden behind it
This game also didn't click for me right away.
First time I played it I made it through route A and got maybe a few hours in route B before dropping it. It was interesting and the music was pretty nice but I didn't grab me and I got sucked into some other games.
For some reason, the Nier Replicant remaster really intrigued me so I gave that a go. That game grabbed me and I made it through all the endings. After that, I just had to give Automata another chance... and I'm very glad I did. Having the NieR Replicant experience really made me appreciate just about everything in the game and suddenly a lot of the things in Automata had new context and meaning. It also setup an interesting mystery of sorts with one of the main parts of the story.
But what really made the experience truly special was how by the end... almost everything I was curious about... or was disappointed with... or thought was just really stupid actually had a really well thought out reason for being in the game. Like, the multiplayer for example... I'm sure plenty of us thought it was just some dumb ripped off Dark Souls mechanic. I'm sure by the end we were all feeling different.
First time I played it I made it through route A and got maybe a few hours in route B before dropping it. It was interesting and the music was pretty nice but I didn't grab me and I got sucked into some other games.
For some reason, the Nier Replicant remaster really intrigued me so I gave that a go. That game grabbed me and I made it through all the endings. After that, I just had to give Automata another chance... and I'm very glad I did. Having the NieR Replicant experience really made me appreciate just about everything in the game and suddenly a lot of the things in Automata had new context and meaning. It also setup an interesting mystery of sorts with one of the main parts of the story.
But what really made the experience truly special was how by the end... almost everything I was curious about... or was disappointed with... or thought was just really stupid actually had a really well thought out reason for being in the game. Like, the multiplayer for example... I'm sure plenty of us thought it was just some dumb ripped off Dark Souls mechanic. I'm sure by the end we were all feeling different.
It's okay. I definitely preferred OG NieR and Drakengard 1 over this game though, especially with regards to story/characters/music.
Damn, this is almost exactly the same experience for me actually. Wonder how many people jumped onto Automata after beating Replicant
I'm the same as OP. Did everything the game had to offer (story wise, couldn't do the side quests) it actually made me mad how boring the game is. Apart from the ost (which is really good) the rest is painfully bland and circlejerky. I couldn't connect with the character because they had no personality. The gameplay is so basic and boring, it's just smashing 2 buttons and the evade is so broken, and the harder difficulties are not harder the enemies just get more life.
More power to people who like it but i was really disappointed, expected more story telling wise and more interesting dialogue or whatnot. I felt the game was trying to hard to be « quirky » and failed miserably at most it's trying to do. But you know it's just me, really happy for Yoko Taro, always nice to get people to love your work!
More power to people who like it but i was really disappointed, expected more story telling wise and more interesting dialogue or whatnot. I felt the game was trying to hard to be « quirky » and failed miserably at most it's trying to do. But you know it's just me, really happy for Yoko Taro, always nice to get people to love your work!
I think the overall package is really enjoyable even with some obvious flaws.
What I liked most was
Music, one of my favorite soundtracks ever
Movement in general, it feels really good to control these characters, be it dodging, running, attacking, etc.
Gameplay variety, you have melee combat, shooting sequences and something different later on which I think a lot of people didn't like but I enjoyed it
Story, kept me hooked during the whole game and it had some pretty awesome moments (voice acting was also really good, played in japanese)
A few sidequests
What I disliked
Combat isn't good or well balanced because the enemies are mostly really dull and the dodge is incredibly powerful. It does let you get criative if you want to juggle enemies at least, if you're into that. I'm not.
Most sidequests, even if their plot is somewhat interesting it's mostly just fetching bullshit gameplay wise. Ideally we would have both, but if I had to pick between interesting plot or gameplay for sidequests I would always go with the later.
What I liked most was
Music, one of my favorite soundtracks ever
Movement in general, it feels really good to control these characters, be it dodging, running, attacking, etc.
Gameplay variety, you have melee combat, shooting sequences and something different later on which I think a lot of people didn't like but I enjoyed it
Story, kept me hooked during the whole game and it had some pretty awesome moments (voice acting was also really good, played in japanese)
A few sidequests
What I disliked
Combat isn't good or well balanced because the enemies are mostly really dull and the dodge is incredibly powerful. It does let you get criative if you want to juggle enemies at least, if you're into that. I'm not.
Most sidequests, even if their plot is somewhat interesting it's mostly just fetching bullshit gameplay wise. Ideally we would have both, but if I had to pick between interesting plot or gameplay for sidequests I would always go with the later.
Its not perfect but also there's nothing else like it. The final ending is also one of the best "closure" i've seen in a game.
That reminds me, back in the day, a lot of people hated Drakengard, I was a Musou fan without knowing it at that time (until Samurai Warriors 3) and I loved it so much, I didn't mind finishing the game 5 times (and then same for the sequel)
Really enjoyed my time with it, so yeah you can try pushing a bit more, but if you it's not worth it then you should probably stop.
I also didn't like the combat of Automata as well, I still got the Platinum and overall I liked the story and music, but it really took a while to get to the good stuff.
Really enjoyed my time with it, so yeah you can try pushing a bit more, but if you it's not worth it then you should probably stop.
I also didn't like the combat of Automata as well, I still got the Platinum and overall I liked the story and music, but it really took a while to get to the good stuff.
I'm going to be honest. Sorry everyone . If you did not like playing the first route, you are probably not going to get it anyway. If you didn't like combat or the music or the writing or the places you explore or the perspective switching stuff... you have already missed most of what is great in the game, and you will be left thinking "oh the story is interesting" but that is not it. That is not it.
I forced me to beat the game expecting that amazing content and I was utterly disappointed. Even though I understand the hype and praise behind it, it's a full fledged triple A and the first time Yoko Taro was able to imprint his vision in a high (high withing this series standards) budget game.
I replayed the game some time ago after playing through it in 2017 already. I've never been as amazed by it as people on here seem to be, but I initially thought it was a good 8/10 game overall.
After replaying it, yeah, I'd even bring it down a point. Having played a lot of other (very) good games these past three and a half years puts into perspective just how middling Automata actually is to me in the end. Other than some of the music, some of the bosses, and the diverse gameplay scenarios, I really don't see much in this game. It looks okay, it plays okay, the story is okay. The depth people attribute to it is something I can kinda understand, but as someone who does not care about stories in (most) games at all, I found Automata to be very whatever in that regard.
I think if you subtract the story, there's not much left making it stand out other than the three aspects I pointed out above. So if the plot doesn't grab you, you're probably better off not bothering with it at all.
After replaying it, yeah, I'd even bring it down a point. Having played a lot of other (very) good games these past three and a half years puts into perspective just how middling Automata actually is to me in the end. Other than some of the music, some of the bosses, and the diverse gameplay scenarios, I really don't see much in this game. It looks okay, it plays okay, the story is okay. The depth people attribute to it is something I can kinda understand, but as someone who does not care about stories in (most) games at all, I found Automata to be very whatever in that regard.
I think if you subtract the story, there's not much left making it stand out other than the three aspects I pointed out above. So if the plot doesn't grab you, you're probably better off not bothering with it at all.
Sounds like the game indeed isn't for you, and that's okay. Time is a precious commodity and you shouldn't have to finish a game once or twice before you maybe like it. There are many users here who think that OP should keep playing it, suggesting that the time invested will payoff somehow. But I disagree with that. Regarding video games, no payoff is worth at least 18+ hours of a so-so experience. I give a game two hours to make itself interesting for me (maybe more of it is a long RPG) and if it fails I'm returning it. Same with books.
I'm happy for people who completed and loved the game because they saw everything and got more context to the story. Personally though, the game's gamepaly, level and mission design quickly bored me so much that I feel like that no fancy story twist will ever be worth finishing it once, let alone a couple of times to truly get everything out of it. This might be cool for some but nobody should criticize you for disliking the game just because you haven't finished it. It's the game's fault if it can not hook you before or it just isn't for you.
Route C is a sequel that that takes place after A/B and features A2.
You need to come up with a new insult for people not liking things that you like. This one's overplayed.
I suggest going with "HURR DURR UR DUMB"
It'll make you sound far less pretentious and condescending.
It's just not for some people, as is the series in general. Personally I like posessed by disease from the OST, but the rest largely do nothing for me. Gameplay is OK if a little dull (Furi does hack and slash bullet hell so much better its not even a contest) and well.... the OST is almost amazing across the board in Furi too. Very different genres musically, but for outright gameplay, playing Furi first made this very underwhelming.
Well there's your problem. Nier Automata is one of those things like Monster Hunter World where the real game is hours on hours into it
I was similar where I didn't get it either, then eventually I went "ohhhh"
The first run had memorable design choices, but was way too "bad anime" for me. Something really tells me the big plot twist stuff won't change that.
I cant believe you don't like that song. Its incredible. :(
Try and keep an open mind. It might surprise you, thats all I wanna say about it.
agreed!
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I don't get it either. The characters aren't particularly likeable, the combat never improves much from the first hour or so, and the whole game feels like you spend your entire time running around the same three square blocks of ruined city over and over again with occasional jaunts into the woods or the amusement park.
I honestly wonder if the game would've been anywhere near as popular if 2B wasn't an otaku thirst magnet.
I honestly wonder if the game would've been anywhere near as popular if 2B wasn't an otaku thirst magnet.
This is the boat im in.
Hated Nier 1. Absolutely loathed it. That's a 4/10 game at best.
Gave Automata a shot, its a lot of the same pretentious nonsense but it's at least more playable than the first. I get what it's trying to do but the game surrounding all of that doesn't have any depth.
The soundtrack is a masterpiece. The rest of the game is definitely well done and a great package. It didn't blow my mind, but the game is solid, especially for its budget.
Im not seeing the similarities between these two outside a very surface level action gameplay comparison. Furi is basically a pretty short arena boss rush game with next to no customization as a single character (which isn't a bad thing, its just completely different).
In the case of Nier Automata, less so in Gestalt, the playthroughs are chapters. Route two has about two hours of repeated content, while playing as a new character and with new story revelations. Outside of those two hours, everything in route B and C is just all together new story content.
I'm also of the opinion that route B is my favorite segment of the game. I don't think the game starts getting good at route C, as I've seen others say.
This is an extremely fair criticism.
I'm not "wondering" about this one at all.