What tendency/ideology do you best align with?

  • Anarchism

    Votes: 126 12.0%
  • Marxism

    Votes: 86 8.2%
  • Marxism-Leninism

    Votes: 79 7.5%
  • Left Communism

    Votes: 19 1.8%
  • Democratic Socialism

    Votes: 425 40.6%
  • Social Democracy

    Votes: 239 22.8%
  • Other

    Votes: 73 7.0%

  • Total voters
    1,047

Deleted member 42641

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The comments on the article look familiar.

Its just so funny that the idea of pointing out the obvious and the simple message of we deserve so much better is so offensive to some.

Or that clearly theres something hugely wrong with the system where you have to make exceptions on basic human rights to get what you want (but like actually not really at all lol) ??? We really are so brainwashed lol

Also man as the article pointed out an intern had to have spent hours on that shit lol
 

Mekanos

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Oct 17, 2018
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I just find the whole "you can meet JOE BIDEN in a VIDDY GAME" so patronizing lol. Literally could not give a fuck about meeting an avatar of this fossil when it comes to who I vote for President. They can't give us policy we actually want but at least we can meet a villager that says malarkey.
 

Deleted member 42641

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I just find the whole "you can meet JOE BIDEN in a VIDDY GAME" so patronizing lol. Literally could not give a fuck about meeting an avatar of this fossil when it comes to who I vote for President. They can't give us policy we actually want but at least we can meet a villager that says malarkey.

Legit have not a single idea of what hes actually running for, its all just america wont be embarassing anymore, I wont be on twitter !

Was told yesterday in the thread about this, young people dont care about actual politics or policies and I was like man im 23 I care, this shit effects me the most lol
 

Deleted member 23212

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They should do what Midway did with Ready 2 Rumble Boxing Round 2, put the president in the game so you can punch his face in =D


 

Pekola

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,507
Legit have not a single idea of what hes actually running for, its all just america wont be embarassing anymore, I wont be on twitter !

Was told yesterday in the thread about it, young people dont care about actual politics or policies and I was like man im 23 I care, this shit effects me the most lol

Young people do care about politics.

But a lot of politics nowadays have become an inside-baseball sort of affair, and old people run everything.

The result? 30-40% of people not voting. That's an absolute failure of a system.
 

samoyed

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Oct 26, 2017
15,191
Other countries with higher voting rates tend to be younger democracies where people remember not being able to vote in living memory. Youth vote is less than ideal everywhere because electoral politics is the purview of the haves, and the youth are, by definition, have-nots. They become haves as they go through life under capitalism (or never, like Millennials). Even if they turn out en masse to vote on a policy/politician, they would not see the fruits of their vote until 10 years later, at which point they are no longer youths and are fully integrated into the system under normal economic conditions. They are not invested in the system the same way careerists are and behave as people who are not invested in things tend to behave.

You'd think people who love the free market would be able to parse the incentive structure here and yet...
 

Deleted member 42641

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Thank you to Televator for posting the links to BadEmpanda's works, been enjoying his videos

Just watched the one on Hong Kong and its nice to hear a more nuanced opinion then "its the revolution of our time !!" or "Its an alt right evil protest". I feel bad for yall on here during that time where this forum and just everywhere else was going crazy for those protests
 
OP
OP
sphagnum

sphagnum

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Oct 25, 2017
16,058


Aaron Sorkin really poisoned a generation's politics.


When Spielberg proposed a movie about the riots and the trial that followed, Sorkin, who was 7 in 1968, said, "'You know, that sounds great. Count me in.' As soon as I left his house, I called my father and said, 'Dad, do you know anything about a riot that happened in 1968 or a crazy conspiracy trial that followed?' I was just saying yes to Steven."

www.hollywoodreporter.com

The Long Journey and Intense Urgency of Aaron Sorkin’s ‘The Trial of the Chicago 7’

Aaron Sorkin, the director of the Netflix film, which stars Sacha Baron Cohen, Jeremy Strong, Eddie Redmayne and Yahya Abdul-Mateen II, reveals why it took nearly 20 years to get the project made and why it couldn't be more timely.
 

Mekanos

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Oct 17, 2018
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"China doesn't care about human rights!"
"Neither does America."
"No. But we pretend to!"
 

Atrophis

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,172
Human rights are very important when the US is setting up death squads in South America. If you don't get that, you can't deal with Washington.
 

dabig2

Member
Oct 29, 2017
5,116
Americans have been brainwashed and indoctrinated for centuries China! Don't tempt fate with our crazy bloodlusted and narcissistic asses!

White liberals like this dude, who play at acknowledging the greater hypocrisy here to just discard it in favor of their own narcissistic justifications, think of the USA like that reformed drug addict who leads the meetings in those shows and movies and is generally a good and well meaning leader who inspires the group to be better.

When in reality the USA is "affluenza inflicted" Ethan Couch, and we're still hiding away in a beach resort escaping justice for everything. Imagine being preached to and educated by that asshole about drunk driving and the unequal justice system when it comes to the rich and influential.

Sunday Rant into the void:

Too many Americans don't know, or in this case don't care, about China's very long relationship with western imperialism like the USA's. China as a state has been around for several millennia, and they experienced a very different last 250 years. So I don't know how much more a liberal fantasy about slaveholders whitewashed for atrocities (like the child slave rapist who was just a cool funny sassy dude) could inform the Chinese government or its peoples about the USA and why it does what it does when it does.

Speaking in a more battle of the nations context, China has the last several decades alone to know what the true score is here in regards to how they deal with Washington - acquire enough capital , and with it power, and spread your reach wide to safeguard yourself and also weaken your adversary's influence and interests. As long as we all live in this global capitalist society, China and the USA will always be at odds as actors. No amount of humanizing with the other's long treasured tradition of delusion is going to solve that underlying issue or bring any further context to change a damn thing.

The most basic shit I know, but way too many liberals like this dude just ignore everything and push this not-so-secret shining city on the hill narrative, and expect the world to ever care. And it's always some white americana bullshit too. So it'll always come off as bad faith.
 
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samoyed

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15,191
"Human rights" is a cudgel to be applied to other countries and whip up domestic and international fervor.
 

Deleted member 23212

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Honestly, people should realize that China and the United States are actually quite similar. A great place to live if you're well-off, but you have a shitty time if you're one of the have-nots. The treatment of minorities is also eerily similar. I also find it hilarious that he mentions democracy and human rights being important to American political discourse and foreign policy, because I'm pretty sure they are pretty important parts to the Chinese constitution as well.
 
OP
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sphagnum

sphagnum

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Oct 25, 2017
16,058
Alright guys, this is just step 1 - next step is electing the most progressive president in US history EVER, Joe Biden!
 

HBK

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Oct 30, 2017
8,073
"Human rights" is a cudgel to be applied to other countries and whip up domestic and international fervor.
"Human Rights" is such a weird seemingly progressive yet imperialistic concept.

"Here are the rules WE say YOU should comply to."

Reading on the history on human rights statements is pretty interesting on how women were excluded from the first statements, how "property rights" have come and gone in various statements, etc.

Edit: I mean, it's like, these aren't exactly "natural rights" but rather a reflection of the morals of their times.
 

3bdelilah

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Oct 26, 2017
1,615
Coup-endorsing neolibs when socialists win the elections again

wanna-see-me-do-it-again.jpg
 

Serpens007

Well, Tosca isn't for everyone
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Oct 31, 2017
8,137
Chile
I'm here just to say that I'm so happy for Bolivia. All I care now is that Añez faces Justice for the bloodshell. It does surprise me that they aren't doing anything to stay in power.

This sunday in Chile we have the Constitutional referendum. Should be a 60+% victory to approve writing a new constitution and finish the Pinochet legacy once and for all.
 

Mulligan

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Oct 29, 2017
1,505
Whatever you do, don't go into the Amazon thread. It's filled with people delighted to see workers lose their jobs for slightly more convenience.
 

smisk

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,034


How do we feel about this? There's some truth to it certainly, but these kind of generalizations also make me hate social media. And I'm not convinced any of the eastern bloc socialist states would do any better on climate and the environment (if they lasted into the 21st century), especially if it came at the expense of industrialization and economic growth.
 

Entryhazard

One Winged Slayer
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Oct 25, 2017
2,843
It does surprise me that they aren't doing anything to stay in power.
they have little recourse beyond taking the L on this one because they can't spin it as MAS rigging the elections as they weren't the ones in power when voting took place, a pretty solid alibi.
They really thought that discrediting Morales would suffice to tank the left and just win this election regularly

Still the Libs in the other thread trying to spin the temporary coup as a good thing as a good thing are really sickening
 

Mekanos

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Oct 17, 2018
44,550


How do we feel about this? There's some truth to it certainly, but these kind of generalizations also make me hate social media. And I'm not convinced any of the eastern bloc socialist states would do any better on climate and the environment (if they lasted into the 21st century), especially if it came at the expense of industrialization and economic growth.


I think the overall point is that this is all happening because of the failures of society under late stage capitalism, it's not just a series of random events.

Also countries like Vietnam handled the virus significantly better than the neolib ones.
 

samoyed

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Oct 26, 2017
15,191


How do we feel about this? There's some truth to it certainly, but these kind of generalizations also make me hate social media. And I'm not convinced any of the eastern bloc socialist states would do any better on climate and the environment (if they lasted into the 21st century), especially if it came at the expense of industrialization and economic growth.

It's all true. A lot of detail is lost but you can't exactly post dissertations to twitter. I can draw a direct chain of causation between all of those things and capitalism.

CO2 emissions per capita in Vietnam (or Viet Nam) are equivalent to 2.20 tons per person (based on a population of 93,640,422 in 2016), a dicrease by -0.02 over the figure of 2.22 CO2 tons per person registered in 2015; this represents a change of -0.9% in CO2 emissions per capita.

CO2 emissions per capita in Cuba are equivalent to 2.68 tons per person (based on a population of 11,335,104 in 2016), an increase by 0.04 over the figure of 2.64 CO2 tons per person registered in 2015; this represents a change of 1.6% in CO2 emissions per capita.

CO2 emissions per capita in China are equivalent to 7.38 tons per person (based on a population of 1,414,049,351 in 2016), a dicrease by -0.06 over the figure of 7.44 CO2 tons per person registered in 2015; this represents a change of -0.8% in CO2 emissions per capita.

CO2 emissions per capita in the United States of America are equivalent to 15.52 tons per person (based on a population of 323,015,995 in 2016), a dicrease by -0.42 over the figure of 15.94 CO2 tons per person registered in 2015; this represents a change of -2.7% in CO2 emissions per capita.

www.worldometers.info

CO2 Emissions - Worldometer

Carbon Dioxide (CO2) Emissions from fossil fuel combustion by Country in the World, by Year, by Sector. Global share of CO2 greenhouse emissions by country
 

HBK

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Oct 30, 2017
8,073


How do we feel about this? There's some truth to it certainly, but these kind of generalizations also make me hate social media. And I'm not convinced any of the eastern bloc socialist states would do any better on climate and the environment (if they lasted into the 21st century), especially if it came at the expense of industrialization and economic growth.

The gist of it is true.

It's simplified, but if the hegemonic production system on the planet isn't responsible, then what is? Bad luck? "Human nature" 🤣?

Global warming definitely isn't "bad luck" and while the whole CoViD mess could be seen as some kind of "ah well, a wild virus appeared 🤷‍♀️", the way it's poorly managed all over the globe definitely isn't "bad luck". Heck the virus breakout itself is both the result of unfettered globalization for the rapid spread out AND the result of I don't know the word in English but land transformation due to mankind expansion. But even if you were to cling to the "bad luck" argument about the virus breakout, the whole mismanagement is the direct result of profit priorities under an infinite growth paradigm.

As for the eastern bloc, it had its share of well documented flaws, but when people advocate against capitalism, they don't advocate for USSR, they simply mean we need to free ourselves from the capitalists paradigms and embrace new "socialists" paradigms such as salary socialization, investment through subsidization instead of credit, etc. As long as the dominant ideology is "profit at all costs", then we're screwed, as it literally means "profits even at the cost of mankind". And yes, it IS that stupid. We're literally destroying the ecosystem which makes human life sustainable. Capitalism is utterly non-sensical. All sociological studies point to it being an anthropological absurdity.

But hey, we don't want to live under North Korea right? 🤣🤣🤣
 

samoyed

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Oct 26, 2017
15,191
An argument I heard from Michael Roberts (https://thenextrecession.wordpress.com/) is that market driven profit chasing is what pushing us deeper and deeper into uncharted wilderness where these undiscovered viruses exist. They then spread to humans via unhygenic industrial practices (again, driven by the profit motive to cut corners where possible) and then spread along our global travel networks (tourism industry). Whenever a country tries to reopen too soon, it's because they're trying to "save the economy", despite capital growing richer and richer in this pandemic. Wherever you look, the profit motive is fucking things up (while the latest Californian wildfires were set off by human neglect, a lot of recent ones were due to PG&E's corner cutting).

www.businessinsider.com

Over 1,500 California fires in the past 6 years — including the deadliest ever — were caused by one company: PG&E. Here's what it could have done but didn't.

Regular blackouts are PG&E's new strategy to avoid starting fires. A writer called it "the most detested, and detestable, corporation in California."

It's difficult to think of anything that has been improved by capitalism in recent years. I guess people are pretty happy with their 3080s.
 

HBK

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Oct 30, 2017
8,073
Every time a politician says "save the economy", they mean "save capitalism" or more specifically "save our capitalists" (as it's usually stated in a nationalistic way such as "save our economy"). They never, ever mean it in the way of "ensuring enough food is produced", or "ensuring enough masks are produced".
 

3bdelilah

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Oct 26, 2017
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Anyone here familiar with Babylon Berlin? I just watched the first episode and was surprised to see it ending with a bunch of Trotskyists plotting some revolt. Curious if this is an integral theme of the story. I know very little of the series, aside from it being pretty praised as a stylized period noir. Refrain from posting spoilers though, I just started out. 😊
 

Scottt

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,246
This is a really neat article about revolutionary information science.

No wonder the public sphere seems so impoverished in the digital age. The systems that manage the circulation of political speech were often originally designed to sell consumer products. This fact has momentous consequences. Recent scholarship has documented the disastrous effects of "surveillance capitalism," and in particular how commercial search engines deploy "algorithms of oppression" that reinforce racist and sexist patterns of exposure, invisibility, and marginalization. These patterns of silencing the oppressed are so pervasive in the world that it may seem impossible to design a system that would not reproduce them.



But alternatives are possible. In fact, from the very beginnings of informatics—the science of information—as an institutionalized field in the 1960s, anti-capitalists have tried to imagine less oppressive, perhaps even liberatory, ways of indexing and searching information. Two Latin American social movements in particular—Cuban socialism and liberation theology—inspired experiments with different approaches to informatics from the 1960s to the 1980s. Taken together, these two historical moments can help us imagine new ways to organize information that threaten the capitalist status quo—above all, by facilitating the wide circulation of the ideas of the oppressed.
Therefore, Setién Quesada and his colleague argued, publication counts did not conclusively determine the "productivity" of authors, any more than declining citation counts indicated the "obsolescence" of publications. Cuban libraries shouldn't rely on these metrics to make such consequential decisions as choosing which materials to discard. Traditional informatics was incompatible with revolutionary librarianship because, by treating historically contingent regularities as immutable laws, it tended to perpetuate existing social inequalities.

"Informatics of the Oppressed," Rodrigo Ochigame
 

dabig2

Member
Oct 29, 2017
5,116
Every time a politician says "save the economy", they mean "save capitalism" or more specifically "save our capitalists" (as it's usually stated in a nationalistic way such as "save our economy"). They never, ever mean it in the way of "ensuring enough food is produced", or "ensuring enough masks are produced".

Yeeeeeep


"It's no surprise to me that so many people think of climate change as an animal killer and a job killer, but not so much as a people killer. It's because our leaders don't talk about it that way."
@MaryHeglar
in this week's FREE newsletter

Democrats love to talk about climate action as a job creator, and an economic engine. Republicans love to talk about it as the exact opposite. And so the two sides go at each other, having reduced the entire matter to dollars and cents.

But that's not what this is about at all. This isn't about which plan will create the most jobs or make or save the most money, this is about which plan will save the most lives. It's no surprise to me that so many people think of climate change as an animal killer and a job killer, but not so much as a people killer. It's because our leaders don't talk about it that way.

And spare me the polling that says the economy is the most effective way to talk about it. Of course the polling will say that because it's the only way people are used to hearing about it. But it's not the truth and the truth needs to be normalized and I, for one, believe it is the responsibility of our leaders and our media to do that.
I personally did not understand the gravity of the climate crisis until I understood the human toll, until the veil was lifted from my eyes and I saw the genocide. I'm sure if you ask most Climate People about why they're in this work they'll tell you something similar. I've actually converted quite a few new Climate People by showing them the same thing. Because it's easy to delay something when you think it's about money. It's a lot harder once you realize it's about people.

Always about the money. FUD about the money. Same reason oil&gas companies for decades were able to mislead and obstruct progress, and still are.

Anyone here familiar with Babylon Berlin? I just watched the first episode and was surprised to see it ending with a bunch of Trotskyists plotting some revolt. Curious if this is an integral theme of the story. I know very little of the series, aside from it being pretty praised as a stylized period noir. Refrain from posting spoilers though, I just started out. 😊

I've watched the first season so far and parts of the 2nd, and yeah, the whole communist angle is pretty integral to the theme. You'll be seeing it throughout the show, I'll just say that.
Speaking more broadly, it's definitely scratched that Boardwalk Empire itch for me, and the whole time period of it is pretty relevant for what's happening today.

Keep going!
 

Amibguous Cad

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Oct 25, 2017
3,033
There are many, many critiques I can throw at the current ruling class of the United States, but "does not believe its own mythological bullshit" is not one of them. So should probably watch Hamilton for the same reason why the West Wing was a bit of a Rosetta Stone for the Obama White House: no matter how bullshit the mythology is, understanding that mythology is useful for understanding how people will act.
 

Deleted member 7130

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7,685


How do we feel about this? There's some truth to it certainly, but these kind of generalizations also make me hate social media. And I'm not convinced any of the eastern bloc socialist states would do any better on climate and the environment (if they lasted into the 21st century), especially if it came at the expense of industrialization and economic growth.


I feel it's right? Truth is capitalism has been the main mode of production for most of the world across ideological lines. No country has really made the transition away from it.