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Which is the better SNES game?

  • Alien 3

    Votes: 58 62.4%
  • Beavis and Butt-head

    Votes: 35 37.6%

  • Total voters
    93
  • Poll closed .
OP
OP
Robin64

Robin64

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,627
England
DarkAkuma's work has gone a long way to making this process easy and extendable. I personally think his main mistake was insisting on the order of the preset ID, therefore conflicting with the original hakchi and creating all sorts of unnecessary headaches. But I guess you can't take the perfectionism out of some people.

The thing about the Preset ID stuff is you can't really have an opinion based around it. One order is wrong, the other is correct. The bytes are stored in Little Endian order in the ROM, just as many other values that SNES ROMs use. But every single piece of hacking and editing software, from Lunar Magic to ZLE2, from SMB3 Workshop to FFHackster, all take this into account. Little Endian just means that if you look directly in the ROM you will see "AA BB", but the actual value of that is BBAA. Hakchi2 is probably the first ever ROM hacking related thing to not reverse the bytes and display them in the readable order.

But, more than that.. Hakchi2 wasn't even first. Before Hakchi2 had any proper deliberate SNES Mini integration, we were making .sfrom files using a Python script. And there's a section in there...

Python:
    if data[header_page + 0x0FD6] == 0x03:
        return 0x10BD  # DSP-1 Games
    elif name == "MEGAMAN X2":
        return 0x1117
    elif name == "MEGAMAN X3":
        return 0x113D

    # Nothing special
    return 0x0

This was an early attempt at assigning Preset IDs to specifics ROMs, and you'll note it's also in the correct order.

Basically, when cluster then went on to code his .sfrom creation routine, he ignored the work others had already done. He was told but just ignored everyone.

Plus I think everyone can agree that the correct order makes any documents listing them make a lot more sense than the incorrect order.
 
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demi

Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,864
I mean, I cover that in the document as well, fully aware of how someone may approach the situation.

I know it's asking for a LOT to have people take two seconds and swap a couple digits but here we are
 

Deleted member 47318

User requested account closure
Banned
Sep 1, 2018
994
Have there been any improvements in making Kirby's Dreamland 3 run in Canoe these last few months? I've come across all sorts of configurations, with various patches as well, but no perfect solution listed anywhere.
 
Oct 25, 2017
403
kind of pointless but this has been bugging me for a while

SFROM Tool doesn't correctly set bytes[16:20] if you're not using PCM audio. However, it does properly set bytes[16:20] if PCM audio is used.

Below is some python code to try and show what I'm talking about.

Python:
sfrom_data = open(sfrom_file, "rb").read()

file_size = sfrom_data[4:8]
pcm_start = sfrom_data[12:16]
var_start = sfrom_data[16:20]
footer_start = sfrom_data[20:24]

if file_size == var_start:
    print("INVALID - PCM/VAR NOT PRESENT, VAR_START INCORRECTLY SET\n")
elif pcm_start == var_start == footer_start:
    print("VALID - PCM/VAR NOT PRESENT\n")
elif file_size != pcm_start != var_start != footer_start:
    print("VALID - PCM/VAR IS PRESENT\n")
else:
    print("ERROR?!? - NOT A VALID SFROM?\n")

Ultimately, it makes no difference whether it's correct or not. However, if we're truly striving for accuracy and perfection, SFROM Tool needs a bugfix

EDIT: DarkAkuma, I've noticed you credited Bosco82 for his Special Chip byte findings but failed to credit me, Mr. BigLongJohnson (tunapizza on reddit) for my findings on how to convert SA-1 saves :-(

EDIT2: :-)
 
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ReyVGM

Author - NES Endings Compendium
Verified
Oct 26, 2017
5,442
Have there been any improvements in making Kirby's Dreamland 3 run in Canoe these last few months? I've come across all sorts of configurations, with various patches as well, but no perfect solution listed anywhere.

No perfect solution. Use retroarch if you want perfect.
 

SOLDIER

One Winged Slayer
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
11,339
I don't know if this is a common problem, but for Legend of the Mystical Ninja I made it up to the boss that's a bunch of ninjas riding a kite: when I get it down to the last ninja jumping from the kite, the game crashes every time.

Anyone know of a fix?
 

ThorHammerstein

Revenger
Member
Nov 19, 2017
3,506
SRAM is never Auto-Saved during your progression, you need to force it by doing a soft reset before leaving the game (or use save states for your progression). Possible to fix this issue, but another one will appear at the very end instead (complete freeze)
Oh, I thought it might have been something else I missed. I'm used to saving SRAM on Super NT so it's never bothered me to do an extra step.
 

arkiokin

Member
Jul 15, 2018
27
So what setup would currently give me:
  1. Epilepsy protection disabled
  2. No freeze after defeating the final boss
  3. Saving only after using reset button combination to force sram overwrite?


It's the Setup described in the Canoe's compatibility sheet : https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...8t2aV5cVswYlnsdKxn9xoIW2Y/edit#gid=2014317767

Important thing is to never use preset IDs 9C10/9D10 if you want not to have the freezing issue during (and not after) the final boss battle.
 

ThorHammerstein

Revenger
Member
Nov 19, 2017
3,506
So what's the best way to add some extra games and maybe some other systems? Just follow the instructions in the OP?
A lot of us prefer 2.21f despite the OP referring to the CE version.
https://github.com/ClusterM/hakchi2/releases/tag/2.21f
If you want to add other systems but stick with the older/simpler/quicker loading Hakchi 2.21f, you'll need the older Retroarch.
https://github.com/ClusterM/retroarch-clover/releases
But CE versions take other system hacking beyond the 2.21f version which is cool in its own way (it just adds a bit of bloat and loading time).
It's practically impossible to brick your system so try each and see what you like (but stick to the internal emulator Canoe as much as possible for SNES games).
 

demi

Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,864
If you want to mess with other systems and play with Retroarch I would use the latest CE version, there are updates and such that help with compatibility and lets you use the latest Retroarch updates.

I only suggest the older version because I only use my SNES for SNES games.

It's just preference, but if you are new to all this, just go the safe route and use the latest Hakchi CE version. You can still use the internal Canoe emulator all the same.
 

SteevL

Member
Dec 25, 2018
216
Yeah, I recommend CE if you're starting out. It's a little more user-friendly and you don't need to do a kernel dump since it backs it up on the system itself automatically. And it's automatically set up for USB host if you ever plan to use expanded storage.
 

demi

Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,864
Nope, I didn't have a passing interest as it wasn't a game. Maybe Bosco, but SupaSAIAN tested it at least, maybe he still has it somewhere - could PM him on Reddit?
 

Deleted member 3862

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
940
Having issues getting DQ3 to run patched on Canoe.

I'm using the 1.1 translation patch from romhacking.net by DQ Translations, applied with Flips.
I'm then applying the Canoe fix patch from the spreadsheet.
I'm adding it via Hackchi, and then I open the SFROM tool, verify the preset ID is 0000 as in the spreadsheet, and set the chip to SuperFX (which I think is how I set the extra byte to 03 with SFROM).
Then I sync it to my mini, but I just get a black screen.

Am I doing something wrong? Or is there another tool I should use to set the extra byte?
 

demi

Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,864
SuperFX is 0C, are there other options? I dont use sfrom tool, does it let you enter your own value

You could just try using Hakchi itself.... Ctrl Alt E
 

Deleted member 3862

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
940
SuperFX is 0C, are there other options? I dont use sfrom tool, does it let you enter your own value

You could just try using Hakchi itself.... Ctrl Alt E

CTRL+ALT+E was opening SFROM tool because it was enabled, so I turned it off and now I can edit the extra byte manually. Thanks a lot! I'll give it a try.

Edit: that did the trick, thanks again
 

demi

Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,864
The document I use/update assumes you are only using Hakchi. If SFROM Tool doesn't seem to be working for you just use Hakchi directly.

For reference I believe 03 is supposed to represent SDD-1, the patch you apply is sluffy literally converting Dragon Quest 3 to use the SDD-1 mapping or something, in order to get it to work correctly on Canoe. Actually pretty nutty if you think about it. Sluffy was a wizard.
 

ReyVGM

Author - NES Endings Compendium
Verified
Oct 26, 2017
5,442
Don't use SFROM Tool if you are going to be editting games. Just patch the rom yourself with the translation, add it to hakchi, make sure the ID is 0000 and the extra byte is 03.
 

Nessus

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,927
Hey all. So if all I want to do is add a couple SNES games (less than 5) to the main screen and use the built in emulator (no folders, no RetroArch) from stock factory settings, what is the best version of Hakchi to use?
 

ReyVGM

Author - NES Endings Compendium
Verified
Oct 26, 2017
5,442
Hakchi2 2.30. It boots the SNES Classic as fast as the stock one.

Hakchi CE has many improvements, but the boot time is like 8 seconds, and for what you are going to use it, it's not worth it. Also, depending on what game you want to add, you might need retroarch.

And by the way "Couple", means 2, not 5.
 

ThorHammerstein

Revenger
Member
Nov 19, 2017
3,506
Hakchi2 2.30. It boots the SNES Classic as fast as the stock one.

Hakchi CE has many improvements, but the boot time is like 8 seconds, and for what you are going to use it, it's not worth it. Also, depending on what game you want to add, you might need retroarch.

And by the way "Couple", means 2, not 5.
Weren't there some odd bugs in 2.30 and 2.31? I could have sworn there was something about them that made 2.21f the preferred version of the "2-series" of Hakchi.
 

arkiokin

Member
Jul 15, 2018
27
Yes, use 2.21f instead of 2.30/2.31 : these last version should bring some display contrast issues, depending on your TV configuration (or HDMI use rather than another one). This was also the case for CE until 3.4.1. And, 2.21f is pretty more user friendly if you only want to add snes games with also some other advantages.
(btw, time to time I switch to CE with my testing SNESC, and it's really a pain to sync and re-sync a lot, folders structure is not very reliable, I'm only happy when I can come back to 2.21f)
 
OP
OP
Robin64

Robin64

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,627
England
Worth noting SFROM Tool hasn't had "Extra Byte" for a fair while now, so if you are seeing it you are out of date.

HXyUGIm.png


Also, its integration with CE is crap. There's so much it doesn't do, including (apparently) letting you know there's an update. Always use it standalone if you want it. (Plus then you can use it with 2.21f and avoid the CE bloat)

It's also still annoying we don't what Unknown3 and Unknown4 are.

http://darkakuma.z-net.us/2019/05/snes-classic-whats-left-whats-next.html
 

Polioliolio

Member
Nov 6, 2017
5,399
I've still wading into this scene. So I found a tool that fixes checksums, which I just assumed should be cleaned up, why not? Might help games run when they might otherwise not.

So I spent about an hour going through my curated folder, looking for checksum errors when booting in an emulator, fixing them with the tool, then testing again to see if fixed. I get most of the way through, then I notice there's a rom whose intro music was just garbled noise after the checksum correction. I found another folder with the same rom before the checksum fix and the music worked. Did another fix and it became garbled. I realized, maybe I shouldn't be doing this? Maybe there's absolutely no need to do this and that in some cases it might mess stuff up. So luckily I had a copy of that entire folder somewhere else and reverted to before I started fixing checksum errors.

Any other insights into checksum errors, what it means, and whether they need fixed? I was going through Genesis games, but I also did a few SNES ones last night. What if a fixed checksum in one game means track number 42 won't play in the 30th hour of gameplay in whatever RPG it might be?
 

Nessus

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,927
Yes, use 2.21f instead of 2.30/2.31 : these last version should bring some display contrast issues, depending on your TV configuration (or HDMI use rather than another one). This was also the case for CE until 3.4.1. And, 2.21f is pretty more user friendly if you only want to add snes games with also some other advantages.
(btw, time to time I switch to CE with my testing SNESC, and it's really a pain to sync and re-sync a lot, folders structure is not very reliable, I'm only happy when I can come back to 2.21f)
*nods* I ended up going with 2.21f and everything worked perfectly for both my NES and SNES Minis. Applied the patches for games like Illusion Of Gaia and Uniracers and got both of those working perfectly in Canoe as well.

Thanks again everyone.
 

ReyVGM

Author - NES Endings Compendium
Verified
Oct 26, 2017
5,442
I've still wading into this scene. So I found a tool that fixes checksums, which I just assumed should be cleaned up, why not? Might help games run when they might otherwise not.

So I spent about an hour going through my curated folder, looking for checksum errors when booting in an emulator, fixing them with the tool, then testing again to see if fixed. I get most of the way through, then I notice there's a rom whose intro music was just garbled noise after the checksum correction. I found another folder with the same rom before the checksum fix and the music worked. Did another fix and it became garbled. I realized, maybe I shouldn't be doing this? Maybe there's absolutely no need to do this and that in some cases it might mess stuff up. So luckily I had a copy of that entire folder somewhere else and reverted to before I started fixing checksum errors.

Any other insights into checksum errors, what it means, and whether they need fixed? I was going through Genesis games, but I also did a few SNES ones last night. What if a fixed checksum in one game means track number 42 won't play in the 30th hour of gameplay in whatever RPG it might be?

Huh? The only reason why you would need to fix a checksum is if you have roms from 1998 or something.

Get no-intro and avoid the hassle.

And we are taking about SNES games, right? Because I don't know what you mean by "track 42" .
 

Polioliolio

Member
Nov 6, 2017
5,399
Huh? The only reason why you would need to fix a checksum is if you have roms from 1998 or something.

Get no-intro and avoid the hassle.

And we are taking about SNES games, right? Because I don't know what you mean by "track 42" .

SNES or Genesis games yeah. As for the example, I'm saying I wonder if messing with checksum might mess up some piece of the game, like a sound effect or something that you may not even have any way of knowing about until you encounter it.

Okay, so don't mess with checksum. Got it. What's no intro?
 

arkiokin

Member
Jul 15, 2018
27
*nods* I ended up going with 2.21f and everything worked perfectly for both my NES and SNES Minis. Applied the patches for games like Illusion Of Gaia and Uniracers and got both of those working perfectly in Canoe as well.

Thanks again everyone.

Be careful about NES system though : since the new release of NESC in 2018 (compared to the original release of 2016), the firmware has changed a bit, so with 2.21f, the pad's shortcut to come back to the main menu don't work correctly (down + select by default) : if you own this type of "new" NES classic, hakchi2 CE is the only way to make work this function (don't concern the SNESC, only the NESC)
 

demi

Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,864
*nods* I ended up going with 2.21f and everything worked perfectly for both my NES and SNES Minis. Applied the patches for games like Illusion Of Gaia and Uniracers and got both of those working perfectly in Canoe as well.

Thanks again everyone.

Nice job. You should add more games. ALL THE GAMES

As arkiokin said, if your NES was one of the "second batch" then it is better to use Hakchi CE because of some weird stuff with how they shipped those units (they're actually using SNES boards, so Hakchi 2.21f may identify it as a SNES and try to flash it?).

Anyway, if your NES doesn't seem to be experiencing any weird issues, you should be fine. Have fun!
 

ThorHammerstein

Revenger
Member
Nov 19, 2017
3,506
Nice job. You should add more games. ALL THE GAMES

As arkiokin said, if your NES was one of the "second batch" then it is better to use Hakchi CE because of some weird stuff with how they shipped those units (they're actually using SNES boards, so Hakchi 2.21f may identify it as a SNES and try to flash it?).

Anyway, if your NES doesn't seem to be experiencing any weird issues, you should be fine. Have fun!
Well, if it is a SNES board, shouldn't you be able to flash it as a NESc if you wanted to? Provided you had a NESc backup that is. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 

sibarraz

Prophet of Regret - One Winged Slayer
Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
18,137
Is too riaky to mod my snes classic? Also do I need to have some knowledge on modding?
 

Psxphile

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,529
I've still wading into this scene. So I found a tool that fixes checksums, which I just assumed should be cleaned up, why not? Might help games run when they might otherwise not.

So I spent about an hour going through my curated folder, looking for checksum errors when booting in an emulator, fixing them with the tool, then testing again to see if fixed. I get most of the way through, then I notice there's a rom whose intro music was just garbled noise after the checksum correction. I found another folder with the same rom before the checksum fix and the music worked. Did another fix and it became garbled. I realized, maybe I shouldn't be doing this? Maybe there's absolutely no need to do this and that in some cases it might mess stuff up. So luckily I had a copy of that entire folder somewhere else and reverted to before I started fixing checksum errors.

Any other insights into checksum errors, what it means, and whether they need fixed? I was going through Genesis games, but I also did a few SNES ones last night. What if a fixed checksum in one game means track number 42 won't play in the 30th hour of gameplay in whatever RPG it might be?
Huh? The only reason why you would need to fix a checksum is if you have roms from 1998 or something.

Get no-intro and avoid the hassle.

And we are taking about SNES games, right? Because I don't know what you mean by "track 42" .
SNES or Genesis games yeah. As for the example, I'm saying I wonder if messing with checksum might mess up some piece of the game, like a sound effect or something that you may not even have any way of knowing about until you encounter it.

Okay, so don't mess with checksum. Got it. What's no intro?
The act of patching roms tend to break checksums in my experience, so even a clean no-intro release can have its checksum altered. Genesis/Mega Drive roms especially are prone to break after patching and you need a checksum fixer to get it working again. However, it seems that's not quite the case for SNES roms and games with bad checksums might still run correctly in emulators?
 

demi

Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,864
I can't say I've ever had an issue with checksums when applying translation/hacks to games. At least with SNES games you have to be aware if a translation is from the old days and requires a header to be applied first, that's the only real hurdle that people don't fully understand.
 
OP
OP
Robin64

Robin64

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,627
England
Very few hacks corrected their checksum, but it's not ever been an issue. No emulators will stop a game with a bad checksum from running, if it stops it's because of something else.
 

Polioliolio

Member
Nov 6, 2017
5,399
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