So completely ignoring the context in which the OP's quote was said?
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Simpsons creator Matt Groening on Apu: 'People love to pretend they're offended'
- Thread starter ElectricBlanketFire
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I mean context is extremely important and you only have yourself to blame if people get mad at you because your statement was insensitive in the given context
I mean he's not, but it's essentially the same as someone asking a fossil fuel power plant about criticisms regarding greenhouse gases and they respond by saying "Oxygen is also a gas". I mean, it's not wrong, but it's also irrelevant and at best only tangentially related to the issue at hand
Do people really love to be offended
This is usually said when minorities stick up for themselves or when (heaven forbid) white people empathize, but do you guys really think we wouldn't rather just not have to deal w bullshit
This is usually said when minorities stick up for themselves or when (heaven forbid) white people empathize, but do you guys really think we wouldn't rather just not have to deal w bullshit
If that's the case, why don't they have a minstrel character? Or someone that speaks like little black sambo?I thought the whole point of the Simpsons was too make fun of everything and everyone. Like nobody is safe. Especially white Americans. The moment you take offense is the moment you lost grasp of the schtick. In the words of Ranier Wolfcastle:
It's always lovely when white people chime in and tell people of colour how offended they should be by racism and caricatures. Nothing like some condescending white privilege to remind you how you're still considered a second class citizen in the Western world by so many people.
Right? PoC would love to not have to call out all the shit that makes them uncomfortable or outright contributes to a culture that delegitimizes them. But the only way some white creators can sleep at night is to convince themselves that we stay up all day & night looking for shit to get mad at.
no that's South ParkI thought the whole point of the Simpsons was too make fun of everything and everyone. Like nobody is safe. Especially white Americans. The moment you take offense is the moment you lost grasp of the schtick. In the words of Ranier Wolfcastle:
the Simpsons writing staff was actually an old boys club of a bunch of Harvard grads (Al Jean, Mike Reiss, Josh Weinstein, Meyer, Conan, etc.) so they were basically making jokes about what Harvard grads found funny
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White people like Hari Kondabolu, the guy of south asian descent who made the documentary that started this whole discussion?
It's even lovelier when they try to characterize those same people of color as being childishly and needlessly outraged just because some of them said their precious cartoon character was stereotypical. Talk about projecting.
So long as he has a heart of gold, it's fine.
The Simpsons characters, from a job/occupation POV, never really changed after all these years.
So what's happening basically is that the 'funny' stereotype from the 90s sticked and became a model of mockery towards those ill willed towards individual native from India.
I get the point offended people want to get across, but honestly, even if Apu changes or even disappear, the show is now 29 season long and the stereotype/joke won't disappear like that.
Simpsons (especially back then) did a lot of its humor through caricature and personally, if some douchebag is willing to piss Hindu folks with jokes like that (à la douchebags in the first Harold & Kumar), that's on them for being fucking racists.
I mean, even if the Simpsons were not a thing, racists would just find other material. Not dismissing the issue, criticisms are valid but imo, this is a case were the bad done by this is done and well implemented, like, you can't turn back, it's useless. I don't think Matt has ill intents by saying this.
So what's happening basically is that the 'funny' stereotype from the 90s sticked and became a model of mockery towards those ill willed towards individual native from India.
I get the point offended people want to get across, but honestly, even if Apu changes or even disappear, the show is now 29 season long and the stereotype/joke won't disappear like that.
Simpsons (especially back then) did a lot of its humor through caricature and personally, if some douchebag is willing to piss Hindu folks with jokes like that (à la douchebags in the first Harold & Kumar), that's on them for being fucking racists.
I mean, even if the Simpsons were not a thing, racists would just find other material. Not dismissing the issue, criticisms are valid but imo, this is a case were the bad done by this is done and well implemented, like, you can't turn back, it's useless. I don't think Matt has ill intents by saying this.
I admit I read the statement of "people love to pretend they're offended" and commented because that can be applied broadly. If it would of said, "people love to pretend they're offended over the Simpsons" I wouldn't of said anything, but that's my crazy logic. At least I'm still posting and didn't bounce out like most hahahaha.
No I'm just saying My voice isn't that important. I don't continue to support the show and I've watched stuff with Indian lead.
If Matt would have actually addressed anything or attempted an explanation people would be responding differently. He should be able to explain his own intent, so I'm going to take his statement at face value.
His only response to the aforementioned harassed people is: "People love to be offended." I doubt those people loved being harassed.
Would have been as simple as saying "Yeah that aged poorly and I feel bad for anyone affected by the stereotype." Seems shitty to not even address it.
Apu is a south Asian caricature written and performed by white people of a completely different faith.
Fat Tony was voiced by Joe Montgena who himself is Italian and even added his own insights into that character.
Kriusty is Jewish but that's not his main characteristic that he's known for. Also many of the writers were of Jewish background. Jackie Mason, a prolific Jewish comedian voiced his father.
There's a spectrum of difference between Apu and many others. Especially the fake and exaggerated accent which also separates him from the likes of Carl, Dr. Hibbert and Lou The Cop.
I love that they built up Apu as a character over the years but that was just a Band-Aid on a much deeper problem; that he started off and continues in many ways to be a racist caricature.
you mean like how right-wingers were acting offended when Michelle Wolf destroyed Sarah Sanders and Conway and Ivanka at the Correspondent's Dinner?
This show was never like South Park.I thought the whole point of the Simpsons was too make fun of everything and everyone. Like nobody is safe. Especially white Americans. The moment you take offense is the moment you lost grasp of the schtick. In the words of Ranier Wolfcastle:
The attacks it did make was on the sitcom culture that existed before it. Other than that the critical jokes they made before the decline wasn't meanspirited.
Admitting that nowadays it's not a good look still achieves something, and it's definitely better than going "nah, it's the kids who are wrong". Sure, you can't undo all the damage, but undoing some of it is better than adding to it, no?
It's easier to think about a boogeyman, the idea of a person sitting around waiting to be offended, rather than the reality, a systemic racism issue that affects all walks of life including media creation where POC get stereotyped.
We do live in an outrage culture to some extent...well online at the very least. I don't think that changes the fact that Apu has crafted this blatant stereotype in the minds of people all over the US. Indian kids at school growing up definitely were on the receiving end of this where I grew up. It wasn't right and I'm surprised it took this long for the criticism to have a mainstream voice. No doubt attributable to the show's irrelevance these past several years. I also think that's why Groening is choosing not to do anything, as this is the most anyone has talked about the Simpsons in a long time.
Yes, some people do that. Are you saying that's what Hari Kondabolu did here? Made a whole documentary just to pretend he was offended and appear morally superior?
It's not just these two responses, are you asking me to quote every single radical post in this thread?
And it's not just this thread, do you want me to quote every tweet, every Facebook post, every internet think-piece that proves my statement?
Can you admit that in paralel with the reasonable discourse there is a pressure for the Simpsons to make changes and/or apologize in a way that decharacterizes the show or else they're a show that propagates racism written by bigots? Or are you going to bury your head in the sand, pretend that it doesn't exist and call me disingenious?
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No. Hari has a right to feel offended. I'm talking about the general twitter crowd. People who don't watch Simpsons. People who basically see a snapshot of anything in any situation and react. Like I said, Groening's words came off as douchey but they're not inherently wrong.
I spent a lot of my childhood picked on for being Indian. Apu was used on a regular basis as the basis of the joke. I was constantly attacked and told I'd never be anything but a taxi driver or a convenience store owner, because look at Apu. And then the imitations.
So fuck you, Groening. I spent a good portion of my childhood being ridiculed. "Pretending to be offended" my ass.
So fuck you, Groening. I spent a good portion of my childhood being ridiculed. "Pretending to be offended" my ass.
Agreed, he could at least share some compassion for the damage done by the character.
If you wanna highlight 2 without doing anything to show the huge amount of support in the thread about addressing the main issue then you really have zero place calling anything disingenuous.
Sure. There is abiut 10x more that are about trying to make a real discussion about the issue. You cherry picking is not going to change that.
I don't think there is a very serious push from legitimate voices saying the show is racist. People wanting the show to address these criticisms and realize that the show was a product of its time in which more marginalized voices didny have the ability to speak out is not the same as saying its written by racists and bigots.
Wanting a show to change how it addresses certain characters and stereotypes for a modern era is not trying to decharacterize itself.
It's not hard for me to concede people go overboard with shit like this. But the discussion around this particular issue has been fueled by a position of research and lived experience and the way you are boiling it down is flat out dishonest.
This reminds me of the outrage over the "Simpsons Go to Australia" episode, not a lot has changed over the years, there's always someone offended out there. As someone who had a Bart Simpson shirt confiscated in middle school after the vice-Presidents wife complained, the fact that the Simpson's can still outrage anyone in this day and age is mindblowing.
How lazy do you have to be to not even watch the 50 min documentary roasting your show?
EDIT - not even roasting, but analyzing.
EDIT - not even roasting, but analyzing.
But if he's not addressing the documentary that spurred this whole discussion, then isn't he just intentionally dodging the real issue? Surely he isn't ignorant of how this all got started, right? It wasn't just white people looking for something to complain about.
The only manufactured outrage in this whole situation comes from the people who, instead of looking into the issue at hand, at the history, hearing from the minority in question, they jump straight to "oh this is ridiculous! SJWs again! PC gone mad! Outrage culture! Chuck it on the pile of all those other completely reasonable complaints I've ignored because I'm too fucking ignorant and lazy to empathise with someone other than myself for five seconds."
No, it's called progress and it won't be stopped by stupidity.
No, it's called progress and it won't be stopped by stupidity.
Honestly idk I'm not him so I have no idea if he bothered to watch the documentary
yup, Hari is only pretending to be offended by Apu because he wasn't blocking out all the bullying he received for growing up Indian
stop being fake offended liberals
liberal media was offended by Michelle Wolf roasting Sarah Sanders and Conway?
shouldn't they be celebrating that?
A lot of older people in comedy and writing are, themselves, very offended that their perspective and sensibilities are out of step with the evolution of society.
So they are latching on to the self-reinforcing delusion that "everyone is just pretending to be offended."
Because you can't prove who is and isn't "really" hurt by something. Therefore, you err on the side of caution and assume everyone is lying.
That way you don't have to acknowledge any criticism, put forth effort to understand other people, or perform self-reflection.
So they are latching on to the self-reinforcing delusion that "everyone is just pretending to be offended."
Because you can't prove who is and isn't "really" hurt by something. Therefore, you err on the side of caution and assume everyone is lying.
That way you don't have to acknowledge any criticism, put forth effort to understand other people, or perform self-reflection.
Nah, Wolf strung all of the media up too so now they're mad
I don't if its been said in this thread, but when a group of white people make a "joke" about racist stereotypes and you're the only PoC sometimes you nervously laugh along, cos it throws you for a loop. At least that's how my 14 year old Mexican self felt like. Say outrage culture all you want but damn if the 90s was rough for us.
Well considering Hank Azaria knows the context of this situation, I'd bet Groening is likely to as well. It's not as if he has to even watch the documentary to realize Hari is south asian. And if he doesn't know the context, then why the hell is he commenting on it? Considering it's his own livelihood, he should look into what's actually going on before making a public statement.
This is how privilege works. Dripping in a complete lack of self-awareness.
If that's the case..please elaborate.
I think people are missing how this character has had real world impacts on people's lives. Apu may be just a silly character to us, but to others he's cast a terrible shadow. Thank you for sharing your story. Hopefully it'll help others to see what the issue is here.
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