• Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
  • We have made minor adjustments to how the search bar works on ResetEra. You can read about the changes here.

xFiona

Member
Oct 27, 2017
328
Norway
People still think engines are some static things from the PS2 era instead of modular tools that get reworked and updated?

Naughty Dog uses the same engine family, not the same engine. Last Of Us 2 is most definitely not using the same engine they used for Uncharted.

Just because they don't throw a version number in front of it like Epic and DICE doesn't mean it's the same.
Pretty sure everyone knows that the engines continue to get updated. But as stated above, there comes a time where the original coding can hold you back. It's probably been about 15 years since the debut. They themselves might be bumping into their own limitations as coding changes, improves and become more efficient.

But maybe they had the foresight to make an engine that is future proof.
 
Oct 24, 2019
6,560
It does seem pretty dated, graphically. A bit cartoony. Animations are ahead of the rest though.

The irony of this comment is that cartoony graphics hold up better over time and hyper-realistic graphics generally become dated the most quickly.

Also nothing about TLOU Part 2's graphics looks dated, that's an absurd remark.
 

Carn

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,944
The Netherlands
Destiny is running on a modified fork of the Halo (Blam!) engine and has been giving Bungie nothing but headaches. It looks and runs good, but it is very challenging for them to modify things, preview changes and add new content in a timely matter.

Yeah, but in some of the retrospectives they adressed that and are probably continiously working on that. One of the reasons that they keep using that is because it's also responsible for the typical 'Bungie' feel iirc.
 

Piggus

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,706
Oregon
lol, what the hell?

Their engine is one of the best in the industry. Are people forgetting that Sony has a team dedicated entirely to RnD for engine and technology development? And guess where that team is located? It's in Naughty Dog's studio. So no, they're not going scrap years of work to move to a different engine or re-develop their own when they already have an entire studio literally dedicated to improving the engine they already have. Especially when that engine completely outclasses most others. Does anyone actually think their engine hasn't been developed with the PS5 in mind over the last several years?

And anyone saying it's "cartoony" needs to get their eyes checked. The hyper-real look of ND games does an excellent job of preventing the uncanny valley effect while still looking very lifelike and believable. Most studios are playing catch-up.
 

Dussck

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,136
The Netherlands
Unless they suddenly switch to Unreal 5 their engine will always contain some code from previous generations. It would be silly to recreate their engine from the ground up if things like drawing vertices into a polygon just works. There's not much to gain there.

So they will build from that base and add features that will suit their next game. Will they be making a game where you can control a spaceship and land on planets? The TLoUp2 code would probably not be suited for that. So they'll optimize the code and add features to their engine to fit that kind of game.

Same way it happened at Guerilla: they came from making first person corridor shooters and now they have an engine that is optimized for rendering large open worlds.
 

Dan Thunder

Member
Nov 2, 2017
14,110
I don't get it. Developer releases possibly best looking game out there and people are saying they need a new engine?!
 
Oct 24, 2019
6,560
One of the reasons (my personal theory tho) that Naughty Dog games have a slightly 'cartoonish/colorful' look to them; it helps them to evade the uncanny valley.

Yep, exactly. A stylized look does wonders for preserving the visual quality of a game over time.

I'm sure ND want their games to withstand the test of time as well as possible and design accordingly.
 

-Le Monde-

Avenger
Dec 8, 2017
12,613
Should they? The engine looks, animates better than any other in the industry. Performance is pretty good too.
I'm sure they have the tools to make it even better on the ps5.
 

brokenswiftie

Prophet of Truth
Banned
May 30, 2018
2,921
Technical limitations. I posted it about it earlier but for instance if Naughty Dog were to move to open world games, I would assume they'd have to heavily modify their current engine or use a new one.
and how do you know this?
have you played tlou2? it has a gigantic area so I'm sure it would not have issues doing an open-world game with seamless massive interior areas
so I'm not sure where this concern is coming from
 
Oct 25, 2017
6,033
Milwaukee, WI
Yah, they're a first party studio. No way they have not been playing with PS5 since early devkits over a year ago.

Oh for sure. But my point is, some of the sequences look directly built for PS5 ray tracing. I wont spoiling anything but even the brightness settings show three locations that look designed specifically to showcase raytracing.

Now the question is, will that be a BC update or a new version of Last of Us 2.
 

Transistor

Hollowly Brittle
Administrator
Oct 25, 2017
37,234
Washington, D.C.
Their engine is working great. Building / learning a new engine would be a massive effort. Their best bet is to upgrade their current engine.
 

NinjaScooter

Member
Oct 25, 2017
54,344
I feel like whether they do or don't none of us will be able to tell the difference so why do you honestly care?

Like if they told you The Last of Us Part II ran on a "new" engine would it make a difference?
 

Mark It Zero!

Member
Apr 24, 2020
494
What is it with ERA and engine discussions? 90%+ of the people on this board has next to no idea what an engine is or how they work. Plus the never-ending tradition of mistaking art style choices with rendering techniques and engine limitations.
 
OP
OP
Frieza

Frieza

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,852
and how do you know this?
have you played tlou2? it has a gigantic area so I'm sure it would not have issues doing an open-world game with seamless massive interior areas
so I'm not sure where this concern is coming from
I did play the TLOU 2 and The Lost Legacy but those weren't true open world games. They just had large open sections.
 

Iwao

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,818
As you can see below on Joel in this picture I took, all of his textures are flat and have limited detail. Look at his hands, his hair, eye and face detail. Then look at their cutscenes.

TLOU2.jpg
I don't think that's a good example, it doesn't allow you to get a good reading on close up details.

ezgif.com-gif-maker-1694b4dc13fab0480a.gif
 
OP
OP
Frieza

Frieza

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,852
I feel like whether they do or don't none of us will be able to tell the difference so why do you honestly care?

Like if they told you The Last of Us Part II ran on a "new" engine would it make a difference?

Again that's not the point. I was thinking about a new engine in relation to their future new titles which could be open world for instance which wouldn't be possible on their current engine unless they heavily modified it and that may be difficult considering its age.
 
Oct 25, 2017
11,760
United Kingdom
Technical limitations. I posted it about it earlier but for instance if Naughty Dog were to move to open world games, I would assume they'd have to heavily modify their current engine or use a new one.

Their last few games, Uncharted 4 / Lost Legacy and TLoU 2, they have already started making their games / parts of their games semi open world, with much bigger environments.

It wouldn't surprise me if they do a full open world game at some point and I'm sure they could easily update their engine to do that, as they are already heading that way now.
 

SDR-UK

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,395
Naughty Dog has done some significant rewrites of the engine just in the PS4 generation itself and that's not even counting what they did when they forked off ND 3.1 to make Uncharted 3 and TLOU. Their engine is suited to how game development is moving - they constantly stream data which is exactly how the PS5 was built. If you honestly think ND and the ICE team weren't heavily involved with how PS5 was built then I don't know what to tell you.

They don't need a new engine with how well it integrates with the tools they use. They'll just continue to build on the amazing base.
 
Oct 27, 2017
5,136
Technical limitations. I posted it about it earlier but for instance if Naughty Dog were to move to open world games, I would assume they'd have to heavily modify their current engine or use a new one.
Not necessarily, they've been dabbling in large open areas since Uncharted 4, if they wanted to do full open world they would simply modify their engine to handle the new set of constraints. They would most definitely try their hardest to modify what they have before they decide to switch or build an entirely new engine. Whatever their next game is, the engine will be modified to accommodate it.
 

NinjaScooter

Member
Oct 25, 2017
54,344
Again that's not the point. I was thinking about a new engine in relation to their future new titles which could be open world for instance which wouldn't be possible on their current engine unless they heavily modified it and that may be difficult considering its age.

How do you know any of this though?
 

xFiona

Member
Oct 27, 2017
328
Norway
I guess we never need a new engine, from anyone, ever. People can just always make their engine better and scale to any size, performance and graphics, ever.
 

Iwao

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,818
I did while I was in game.
I'm sure LoD varies in certain situations, but I've not seen such lacking detail in any of the character models and their textures in my playthrough, and by my reckoning you'd have to zoom in 2x to actually see the lack of detail you're talking about. Compare it to the close up shot I posted, and it's obviously not a technical limitation of their engine.
 

brokenswiftie

Prophet of Truth
Banned
May 30, 2018
2,921
like none of us knows how their engine works
we don't know whats it capable of
we have no idea if it can do open world or not
theirs nothing in their current games that shows it cant do open worlds
I would assume it's not a massive leap that requires a complete engine rewrite to go from Seattle in tlou2 to say days gone open world
 

dragonbane

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,587
Germany
Lol they are not gonna ruin their entire pipeline and all their processes. Most devs are working on an iterated version of some old engine at this point. They will just upgrade it as they should, it's doing fantastic work
 

TheMadTitan

Member
Oct 27, 2017
27,309
Pretty sure everyone knows that the engines continue to get updated. But as stated above, there comes a time where the original coding can hold you back. It's probably been about 15 years since the debut. They themselves might be bumping into their own limitations as coding changes, improves and become more efficient.

But maybe they had the foresight to make an engine that is future proof.
That's operating under the assumption that the current revision of the engine has old code in it still. For all we know, the current engine is on par with Unreal 5 and the only thing in it pertaining to the older versions is stuff for emulation/virtualization/interpretation/backward compatibility/whatever you want to call it for the off chance they feel the need to do ports of their older games into modern platforms.

People could very well be assuming that there's old code because the engine name is still the same. Most game engines are probably well into the Theseus Ship territory at this point.
 

xFiona

Member
Oct 27, 2017
328
Norway
I'm sure LoD varies in certain situations, but I've not seen such lacking detail in any of the character models and their textures in my playthrough, and by my reckoning you'd have to zoom in 2x to actually see the lack of detail you're talking about. Compare it to the close up shot I posted, and it's obviously not a technical limitation of their engine.
Well it has to be a technical limitation of the console, otherwise every single character, every scene would have equal quality. But ND knows the limitations of the hardware they are working with and has to build the characters and scenes accordingly. I don't know why you didn't see what I saw during the play through. Unless you got a better copy than me. I played mine on the PS4 Pro.
 
Oct 27, 2017
5,136
You think ND could make an open world game on their current engine without at least heavily modifying it?
TLOU Remastered was already heavily modified to even run on the PS4, if its a choice between heavy modification and replacement, based on their comments in the past, they would choose heavy modification.
 

xFiona

Member
Oct 27, 2017
328
Norway
That's operating under the assumption that the current revision of the engine has old code in it still. For all we know, the current engine is on par with Unreal 5 and the only thing in it pertaining to the older versions is stuff for emulation/virtualization/interpretation/backward compatibility/whatever you want to call it for the off chance they feel the need to do ports of their older games into modern platforms.

People could very well be assuming that there's old code because the engine name is still the same. Most game engines are probably well into the Theseus Ship territory at this point.
Totally agree. I even looked for a "Naughty Dog Engine" Wiki to see if anyone is monitoring "versions" or "updates". Nothing. It could be all new for all we know.
 

fanboy

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,452
Slovakia
If they arent making a racing game, strategy RPG or something like that, there really is no reason for that. They have stated multiple times that they just improve their engine after every game. But seeing the changes from Tlou, to U4 to TLOU 2, you could basically call it a new engine every time they release something.
 

Nostradamus

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,280
The graphical results of the engine are insane so whatever approach they're following on updating their engine works great.