Shinobi on Xbox "Stuff that was planned for this month pushed to next month."

Crumpo · Aug 13, 2020

RoninStrife said:
I think Analysts have better sources on BOM than DF... ,if DF thinks it's more, they've lost their damn minds.
If analysts and even vendors, WSJ , Nikkei all say Sony increased production to aim for 10 million units by March 2021... HELL no it wont be over $500. Their confidence that demand will be high makes that impossible. Honestly, looking like it's coming in at 399-450

You can read that move in any number of ways, like this one:

Sony is seeing the negative mood for a $600 price tag so is doing everything to get around that negativity without making a massive loss. Ordering more units to lower the production cost of each console is one way to try and squeeze the price as close to $500 as they can.

I'm still of the opinion that <$500 is not a lock. The signs are pointing to something expensive that is in a combination of mindset control and measures to try and keep the price as low as possible.

Sony themselves said this was going to be a premium console.

TheHunter · Aug 13, 2020

Tyaren said:
You guys are trying way too hard to downplay Miles Morales, lol. You claim it is an expansion, in another Xbox thread some others claimed it is glorified DLC, it's not a full game, oh, and one claimed it's maximum 5 hours long. Sure.
It is a full, standalone game. That has now been stated like a million times already. It might be considerably shorter than a Spider-Man 2 would be, but that still doesn't mean its not a full game. The Lost Legacy, which it has been directly compared to Miles Morales by the the developers and Sony, was a fairly lengthy (compared to older UCs) full game that was just as high quality, if not even more, than Uncharted 4.

I would be making this argument if Halo Wars 2s Nightmare Unleashed was a next gen thing.

My point still stands next gens launch window is weaker. Ps4 had Killzone, Infamous SS, Knack and Driveclub. This next to a bunch of 3rd party games that aren't there this time.

TheHunter · Aug 13, 2020

Betty said:
It really, really isn't though.

PS4 had Knack and Killzone Shadowfall, both were god awful. The only notable PS4 release was Resogun.

Spider-Man could be a 1 hour tech demo and it would still be a superior line-up than what PS3 & PS4 got.

That's not counting third parties like Cyberpunk and Assassin's Creed which I imagine most of us will be playing on next gen machines.

I'm not talking about the quality of the games.

Bigjig · Aug 13, 2020

vivftp said:
Wow... the downplaying of Spider-Man of all things on the PS5. I think a lot of people are in for a surprise on just how well that game does when it comes out.

We don't know the full launch window lineup of either Sony of Microsoft yet.

You'd think after the nicheman debacle people would learn their lesson but nope lol

Deleted member 10193 · Aug 13, 2020

Rndom Grenadez said:
Gamepass makes this unequivocally false.

Gamepass isn't free though, people are acting like it is a feature thats going to come with the console. I've got Gamepass Ultimate till 2022 and I certainly wouldn't buy a Series X just to play Gamepass games.

Series X as an upgrade from the One X for $500+ doesn't interest me, there are no killer apps coming for either console so far. If I can play everything on One X in 4K30 then why bother spending the money?

TheHunter · Aug 13, 2020

You mistake me calling Miles Spidey an expansion meaning it won't sell well.

I simply said they don't count as full new games to me.

g-m1n1 · Aug 13, 2020

TheHunter said:
No, an expansion and port do not count for me.

Xbox is even worse.

Miles is a stand alone that will probably have more hours of content than Ryse and Killzone combined.
It is a huge exclusive, like it or not.

Demon Soul's Remake (it is not a port) will be a great game that very few people played on PS3.
Again, this game will move units, especially for the hardcore audience.

But yeah, let's Downplay them...

TheHunter · Aug 13, 2020

g-m1n1 said:
Miles is a stand alone that will probably have more hours of content than Ryse and Killzone combined.
It is a huge exclusive, like it or not.

Demon Soul's Remake (it is not a port) will be a great game that very few people played on PS3.
Again, this game will move units, especially for the hardcore audience.

But yeah, let's Downplay them...

I will thank you.

Tyaren · Aug 13, 2020

TheHunter said:
You mistake me calling Miles Spidey an expansion meaning it won't sell well.

I simply said they don't count as full new games to me.

It's settled then, random guy on the internet says Spider-Man is not a full or new game.

Skeff · Aug 13, 2020

Crumpo said:
You can read that move in any number of ways, like this one:

Sony is seeing the negative mood for a $600 price tag so is doing everything to get around that negativity without making a massive loss. Ordering more units to lower the production cost of each console is one way to try and squeeze the price as close to $500 as they can.

I'm still of the opinion that <$500 is not a lock. The signs are pointing to something expensive that is in a combination of mindset control and measures to try and keep the price as low as possible.

Sony themselves said this was going to be a premium console.

What do you think the reason is that sony are forecasting to essentially break between Oct-Mar? Despite posting huge profits Apr-May-Jun?

My guess would be they intend to sell a piece of hardware at a loss that will be offset by PSN revenues. And because most analysts have put PS5 BoM at ~450 I'm expecting 399 and 449 for the two models.

TheHunter · Aug 13, 2020

Tyaren said:
It's settled then, random guy on the internet says Spider-Man is not a full or new game.

There was no or in there.

Full and new. As in full fledged sequel like Spidey 2 will be.

vivftp · Aug 13, 2020

99% of customers won't give a flying hoot that SM:MM isn't on the scale of the 2018 game. What they will care about is:

1. It's friggin' Spider-man. A character with universal appeal that goes beyond video games and is hot on the heels of one of Sony's most popular games ever.
2. It's a shiny new game with pretty new graphics to play on their brand new PS5. It'll also no doubt make great use of the 3D audio and DualSense controller.
3. It's Miles Morales, who's hotter than ever after the Spiderverse movie and his inclusion in the 2018 game
4. It's a fun game to play.

So long as it's a game that's a meaty, fun experience even on the level of Lost Legacy it will be a massive positive for people who pick up the PS5.

Anyone dismissing this game who's calling it a DLC or anything along those lines should feel ashamed of themselves... but I know they won't. They're just in it for the console warz.

Darmik · Aug 13, 2020

Tyaren said:
You guys are trying way too hard to downplay Miles Morales, lol. This is already Niche-Man tier downplay. You claim it is an expansion, in another Xbox thread some others claimed it is glorified DLC, it's not a full game, oh, and one claimed it's maximum 5 hours long. Sure.
It is a full, standalone game. That has now been stated like a million times already. It might be considerably shorter than a Spider-Man 2 would be, but that still doesn't mean its not a full game. The Lost Legacy, which has been directly compared to Miles Morales by the the developers and Sony, was a fairly lengthy (compared to older UCs) full game that was just as high quality, if not even more, than Uncharted 4.

Lost Legacy is a standalone expansion. As is Spider-man Miles Morales. It is what it is. I don't think it's downplaying to point that out personally. Lost Legacy was great. Being an expansion doesn't mean it's bad. It just means they aren't going to be as big or push things forward as much as a sequel would. Sometimes these expansions end up having better beat for beat content because they've got the essence of what makes the game great down.

I do think Miles Morales will be a much bigger hit than Lost Legacy though. Lost Legacy was weirdly overlooked.

black070 · Aug 13, 2020

Darmik said:
Lost Legacy is a standalone expansion. As is Spider-man Miles Morales. It is what it is. I don't think it's downplaying to point that out personally. Lost Legacy was great. Being an expansion doesn't mean it's bad. It just means they aren't going to be as big or push things forward as much as a sequel would. Sometimes these expansions end up having better beat for beat content because they've got the essence of what makes the game great down.

I do think Miles Morales will be a much bigger hit than Lost Legacy though. Lost Legacy was weirdly overlooked.

Right ? I feel like we don't deep that enough. It's second only to Among Thieve's in the series.

Deleted member 543 · Aug 13, 2020

"Standalone expansion" makes no literal sense. What is being expanded if the "expansion" stands alone?

Darmik · Aug 13, 2020

Kuraudo said:
"Standalone expansion" makes no literal sense. What is being expanded if the "expansion" stands alone?

Basically their work on the game. Typically uses the same engine and mechanics in a new campaign. Lost Legacy is the example used for Miles Morales and Lost Legacy was even included in the Uncharted 4 season pass.

Death of the Outsider is another example. Eurogamer use that exact wording.

Dishonored: Death of the Outsider standalone expansion announced

Dishonored 2 is getting a standalone expansion called Dishonored: Death of the Outsider.Revealed at Bethesda's E3 press…

www.eurogamer.net

Tyaren · Aug 13, 2020

Darmik said:
Lost Legacy is a standalone expansion. As is Spider-man Miles Morales. It is what it is. I don't think it's downplaying to point that out personally. Lost Legacy was great. Being an expansion doesn't mean it's bad. It just means they aren't going to be as big or push things forward as much as a sequel would. Sometimes these expansions end up having better beat for beat content because they've got the essence of what makes the game great down.

This is again downplaying or negative spin. It is a standalone game and a full game.
And let's not kid ourselves, we all know why certain forumers here are doing it in Halo Infinite and Xbox Series X related threads. Please...

indosmoke · Aug 13, 2020

Kuraudo said:
"Standalone expansion" makes no literal sense. What is being expanded if the "expansion" stands alone?

Semantics, but... I don't see any problem with this.
Standalone means you don't need the base game, expansion means it's re-using a large majority of the original game's assets, it's being developed with a smaller budget/team, it's going to have a smaller scope, and it will cost less than 60/70$.
It's not contradictory.

(talking about "standalone expansions" in general of course, I have no idea if all/part of these points apply to MM)

Darmik · Aug 13, 2020

Tyaren said:
This is again downplaying or negative spin. It is a standalone game and a full game.
And let's not kid ourselves, we all know why certain forumers here are doing it in Halo Infinite and Xbox Series X related threads. Please...

So would you say this wording is also wrong for Lost Legacy and Death of the Outsider? I don't recall any complaints when people referred to those as standalone expansions.

Why Uncharted: The Lost Legacy Became A Stand-Alone Expansion

Naughty Dog tells us why the team decided to make Lost Legacy a stand-alone title separate from Uncharted 4.

www.gameinformer.com

Here's Game Informer using the terminology for Lost Legacy. The game Sony themselves have compared Miles Morales to.

ThereAreFourNaan · Aug 13, 2020

Kuraudo said:
"Standalone expansion" makes no literal sense. What is being expanded if the "expansion" stands alone?

It's terminology from pc gaming. You'd have expansions packs for games (equivalent to dlc expansions), and it was called a stand alone expansion if you didn't require the original game for the expansion to function. Sure you could argue it's not literally correct but it's got inertia behind it as a term and people know what you mean when you say it.

At some point people also started using this to refer to console games that were similar in scope. Like Wolfenstein The Old Blood or Dishonoured Death of the Outsider. It's considered an expansion rather than a full game because it's reusing the same engine, often many assets, and is smaller in scope without a full length development cycle.

Decarb · Aug 13, 2020

Kuraudo said:
"Standalone expansion" makes no literal sense. What is being expanded if the "expansion" stands alone?

It just means you don't need base game to play it, nothing more. If they called it Spider-man 2: Miles Morales instead, no one would be moaning right now.

JasoNsider · Aug 13, 2020

As someone who is not a big comic book IP fan, and as someone who got the sales prediction for Spiderman 2018 all wrong, I think people are repeating my mistake. Not only was Spiderman way stronger sales force than I thought, the game's quality pretty much completely lived up to expectations.

Honestly, pound for pound, Spiderman is probably one of the strongest games you could launch a system with in 2020, even as a semi-sequel. We have a tendency to look at history to find long storied franchises as the easy picks, but Spiderman is a huge draw now, and is coming off an amazing start from Insomniac.

tl;dr Miles Morales is absolutely a system seller, and it would be foolish to underestimate the draw of Spiderman right now.

vivftp · Aug 13, 2020

JasoNsider said:
As someone who is not a big comic book IP fan, and as someone who got the sales prediction for Spiderman 2018 all wrong, I think people are repeating my mistake. Not only was Spiderman way stronger sales force than I thought, the game's quality pretty much completely lived up to expectations.

Honestly, pound for pound, Spiderman is probably one of the strongest games you could launch a system with in 2020, even as a semi-sequel. We have a tendency to look at history to find long storied franchises as the easy picks, but Spiderman is a huge draw now, and is coming off an amazing start from Insomniac.

tl;dr Miles Morales is absolutely a system seller, and it would be foolish to underestimate the draw of Spiderman right now.

Thank you :)

TheHunter · Aug 13, 2020

vivftp said:
99% of customers won't give a flying hoot that SM:MM isn't on the scale of the 2018 game. What they will care about is:

1. It's friggin' Spider-man. A character with universal appeal that goes beyond video games and is hot on the heels of one of Sony's most popular games ever.
2. It's a shiny new game with pretty new graphics to play on their brand new PS5. It'll also no doubt make great use of the 3D audio and DualSense controller.
3. It's Miles Morales, who's hotter than ever after the Spiderverse movie and his inclusion in the 2018 game
4. It's a fun game to play.

So long as it's a game that's a meaty, fun experience even on the level of Lost Legacy it will be a massive positive for people who pick up the PS5.

Anyone dismissing this game who's calling it a DLC or anything along those lines should feel ashamed of themselves... but I know they won't. They're just in it for the console warz.

Why are you people completely misreading my assessment of next gens lackluster games output as "lol he thinks Spiderman won't sell".

And it is an expansion. They've outright called it that themselves. Don't get mad at me.

Mubrik_ · Aug 13, 2020

TheHunter said:
To be fair neither console does.

Sony has an expansion of an existing game (which looks great but...is an expansion) and a port in launch window.

This new gen looks very dry in the new games department for now, even 3rd party shares this issue.

TheHunter said:
I'm not talking about the quality of the games.

So your original point is still mute then?

SMM is very much a new game
DS is very much a new game
Both games have good quality to different sets of people (which you'd love to get as a launch window)

Your 'issue' with sony is not really an 'issue'
Especially when compared to the competition.

TheHunter · Aug 13, 2020

Darmik said:
Lost Legacy is a standalone expansion. As is Spider-man Miles Morales. It is what it is. I don't think it's downplaying to point that out personally. Lost Legacy was great. Being an expansion doesn't mean it's bad. It just means they aren't going to be as big or push things forward as much as a sequel would. Sometimes these expansions end up having better beat for beat content because they've got the essence of what makes the game great down.

I do think Miles Morales will be a much bigger hit than Lost Legacy though. Lost Legacy was weirdly overlooked.

Bingo.

Halo Wars Nightmare Unleashed was a fantastic game expansion but hardly something I would spend 500+ on just to play. I'm sure Miles Spidey will be good and many of you will buy it. It is of similar vain IMO as Nightmare Unleashed for me. Probably amazing but not a reason to own next gen.

TheHunter · Aug 13, 2020

Mubrik_ said:
So your original point is still mute then?

SMM is very much a new game
DS is very much a new game
Both games have good quality to different sets of people (which you'd love to get as a launch window)

Your 'issue' with sony is not really an 'issue'
Especially when compared to the competition.

A new, full game experience.

DS is a remake. SMM is an expansion.

Yes I said Xbox is even weaker.

vivftp · Aug 13, 2020

TheHunter said:
Why are you people completely misreading my assessment of next gens lackluster games output as "lol he thinks Spiderman won't sell".

And it is an expansion. They've outright called it that themselves. Don't get mad at me.

Why do you think I was addressing only you on that point? I originally quoted you just to let you know we don't know the full launch lineup of both consoles. There's many, MANY people in this thread downplaying Spider-Man, not just you.

TheHunter · Aug 13, 2020

Tyaren said:
This is again downplaying or negative spin. It is a standalone game and a full game.
And let's not kid ourselves, we all know why certain forumers here are doing it in Halo Infinite and Xbox Series X related threads. Please...

No it is not.

The developers themselves have said it is not a full game or sequel.

Why is this so hard to understand? Heart of the Swarm and Legacy of the Void were both standalone but they were hardly full fledged games. And they were priced as such.

This doesn't mean they A) Aren't good and B)Won't sell.

black070 · Aug 13, 2020

People can call it whatever the hell they want, call it DLC even - if to them thats not a compelling enough reason to buy a new console than let them be. It'll be selling like hotcakes regardless.. though some day I'll need to check out how well hotcakes actually sell.

TheHunter · Aug 13, 2020

vivftp said:
Why do you think I was addressing only you on that point? I originally quoted you just to let you know we don't know the full launch lineup of both consoles. There's many, MANY people in this thread downplaying Spider-Man, not just you.

I am not downplaying anything.

It isn't a full game. That isn't downplaying it's a fact.

Mubrik_ · Aug 13, 2020

TheHunter said:
A new, full game experience.

DS is a remake. SMM is an expansion.

Yes I said Xbox is even weaker.

Both new games people will play and enjoy
No one is looking at spiderman and saying 'Damn, Its an expansion. i'm not picking it up with this brand new console'

Your original post that i quoted for you: replied neither console does to a post about having first party launch line up
What is your goal? lol

Knight613 · Aug 13, 2020

Honestly regarding Spider-Man, I feel like too many people are still just going based off of the sales of Activision's Spider-Man games last gen which were fairly average for the most part.

TheHunter · Aug 13, 2020

Mubrik_ said:
Both new games people will play an enjoy
No one is looking at spiderman and saying 'Damn, Its an expansion. i'm not picking it up with this brand new console'

Your original post that i quoted for you: replied neither console does to a post about having first party launch line up
What is your goal? lol

That next gens launch lineup is kinda weak.

There's no agenda here, nor am I the only one saying this. I don't like the current outlook for launch window for either console. Doesn't mean there's zero reason to by it.

60 fps Destiny alone is reason for me.

vivftp · Aug 13, 2020

TheHunter said:
I am not downplaying anything.

It isn't a full game. That isn't downplaying it's a fact.

This is amusing now. So please, by all means define for me what constitutes a full game? Average playtime? Content? What is a full game? What makes one piece of content a full game and one piece of content not a full game?

Skeff · Aug 13, 2020

TheHunter said:
My point still stands next gens launch window is weaker. Ps4 had Killzone, Infamous SS, Knack and Driveclub. This next to a bunch of 3rd party games that aren't there this time.

Driveclub launched 11 months after the PS4. if that is your timeframe then the PS5 will have many significant games out in that timeframe. Many.

Mubrik_ · Aug 13, 2020

TheHunter said:
That next gens launch lineup is kinda weak.

There's no agenda here, nor am I the only one saying this.

Weak compared to what? First party specifically.
Disingenuous at best
Man.

E: Sorry, this is OT

TheHunter · Aug 13, 2020

vivftp said:
This is amusing now. So please, by all means define for me what constitutes a full game? Average playtime? Content? What is a full game? What makes one piece of content a full game and one piece of content not a full game?

Umm...yes.

This is not an alien concept I am talking about.

TheHunter · Aug 13, 2020

Mubrik_ said:
Weak compared to what? First party specifically.
Disingenuous at best
Man.

I listed how many other games came out for PS4 compared to what we see right now. 3rd party is hit too in comparison.

It isn't disingenuous to say launch window right now is lacking compared to PS4 or Xbox One.

Raigor · Aug 13, 2020

Why are people arguing about Spider-Man Miles Morales?

It's a standalone title just like Death of the Outsider, Lost Legacy, The Old Blood.

It's most likely going to be shorter than Marvel's Spider-Man.

TheHunter · Aug 13, 2020

Skeff said:
Driveclub launched 11 months after the PS4. if that is your timeframe then the PS5 will have many significant games out in that timeframe. Many.

I mistook it as I searched for all the games released 2013 and driveclub was there.

I guess substitute that with Resogun if you insist.

TheHunter · Aug 13, 2020

Raigor said:
Why are people arguing about Spider-Man Miles Morales?

It's a standalone title just like Death of the Outsider, Lost Legacy, The Old Blood.

It's most likely going to be shorter than Marvel's Spider-Man.

I too am not sure why.

It is an expansion. Why does this make you angry?

Skeff · Aug 13, 2020

TheHunter said:
I mistook it as I searched for all the games released 2013 and driveclub was there.

Infamous SS didnt release in 2013 either it was march 2014

Mass_Pincup · Aug 13, 2020

TheHunter said:
I am not downplaying anything.

It isn't a full game. That isn't downplaying it's a fact.

Lol it's an half game then? Or a quarter game?

Sky87 · Aug 13, 2020

Both consoles have lacklustre launch lineups that's even worse than the start of this gen. They're both relying on timed exclusives from third parties to fill it out.

1 first party exclusive vs 0 is a pretty silly thing to argue about when it means both are sent out with very little reason to buy them day one. I'm still planning on getting a PS5 on launch, but I'm expecting to be done with Spiderman in less than a week and will have to wait until spring next year for the next big thing. It's the worst start of a generation that I can remember unless they both have more to announce in the coming weeks.

TheHunter · Aug 13, 2020

Skeff said:
Infamous SS didnt release in 2013 either it was march 2014

That is launch window to me. 6 months is usually my cutoff though I'd be honest and say we may see more in that window.

I don't right now.

TheHunter · Aug 13, 2020

Mass_Pincup said:
Lol it's an half game then? Or a quarter game?

It's an expansion.

As they've called it. Full game means content wise you are getting a whole new game, not one built on top of an existing one.

Starcraft 2 vs Heart of the Swarm or Legacy of the Void.

DrDeckard · Aug 13, 2020

At the end of the day...Having Spider-man at launch is a lot bigger and better than Fantavision.......

...It's also a lot bigger than anything Microsoft has....So it doesn't even need to be downplayed at this point.

Now, if these consoles are over $500....and hit the rumored $600...I don't think any of the games are a strong enough proposition for that, but that's just me.

Desfrog · Aug 13, 2020

TheHunter said:
Umm...yes.

This is not an alien concept I am talking about.

Uncharted Lost Legacy was longer than Uncharted Drakes Fortune, yet isnt a full game?

Deleted member 15973 · Aug 13, 2020

TheHunter said:
I would be making this argument if Halo Wars 2s Nightmare Unleashed was a next gen thing.

My point still stands next gens launch window is weaker. Ps4 had Killzone, Infamous SS, Knack and Driveclub. This next to a bunch of 3rd party games that aren't there this time.

DriveClub released a year later, is that how big your launch window is?

Shinobi on Xbox "Stuff that was planned for this month pushed to next month."

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