Already read it. This changes very little. He might have some claim to feel wronged if the embargo email came significantly after the copy came, like days later. Because then he potentially used the sites resources (time in this case) to prepare for a review he never would have accepted anyway. Unless it was significantly later or he was already deep into the game by the time that came though the point stands. If he won't accept their terms he should decline their game. Even that's a fairly shaky excuse. I handled PR for a site for years. I would never have accepted an early title without clarifying the embargo. Too much room for issues
In my opinion this just means the game is shit, but it is shenmue so I am not surprised if it is.
The person who claims there's a two day embargo says he's publishing his review the day the game comes out and he is clearly based on the UK. I'm going to bat for avoiding spreading misinformation.People in this thread really going to bat for the publisher even in a situation where the embargo is different between countries for the same game on the same release date.
It's a different kind of wrong. No outlet should have a post-release embargo for a review.
Isn't the simplest solution not to buy day one? If your purchase hinges on reviews just wait.
The person who claims there's a two day embargo says he's publishing his review the day the game comes out and he is clearly based on the UK. I'm going to bat for avoiding spreading misinformation.
If I'm not mistaken haven't the last two high profile games of the month, Death Stranding and Star Wars, had day one review embargos? Why are we choosing to pick on this game?
Because he's not agreeing to their embargo. Because it's ridicuous.The person who claims there's a two day embargo says he's publishing his review the day the game comes out and he is clearly based on the UK. I'm going to bat for avoiding spreading misinformation.
Because he's not agreeing to their embargo. Because it's ridicuous.
If they wanted to get him to agree to a ridiculous embargo, they should have not sent him the game until he agreed to it.
Maybe some of the confusion here is because people think that journalists and reviewers are an extension of PC/Marketing for publishers, or that they should be. If a publisher just wants people to market their game and do exactly what they are told regardless of how absurd it is, they should hire marketing staff to do it, not ask journalists to do absurd things like hold a review until after a game is out.
But who who you advertise it to: Anyone with a remote interest in Shenmue 3 surely already knows it's coming and everyone else won't be enticed to get into the third part of something that doesn't exactly invite newcomers.
I don't know actually but I thought the production is considered bigger than a common indie game just thrown into the online store.
???
Or they could have not sent it to him until they'd got his agreement. Someone working in PR deciding to request a ridiculous embargo after sending out review code is failing at their job. A reviewer playing a game they were sent, ignoring an absurd embargo request sent after the fact, is totally doing their job. If Koch aren't happy with the outcome they should train/brief their staff better, because it's their fuck up.It is (if true). But then he should be consistent and not rely on the copy that's tied to it.
Koch would be entirely within their rights to withhold access. No outlet, this one or any other, has a right to privileged access, but the line of thinking you're going down there is not far from "we better not give this too harsh of a review because this publisher has a lot of big games". If they didn't want him publicly shitting on them, perhaps they should not have had an embargo policy that warranted being shat on publicly.That is true. Since he's clearly not trustworthy enough to be dealt with otherwise, I guess. And I'm wouldn't be surprired if that's indeed the last time he's getting a copy early, at least for a while. And I couldn't fault them for that, especially when he' choosing to publicly shit on them.
The fault is entirely on the publisher. They created this scenario. Many publishers are capable of securing review coverage of their games without mishandling it like Koch have here.That's not wrong, but putting the fault entirely on the publisher isn't fair. If you're happy to accept access to something you ordinarily would not have yet, it is not unreasonable to expect that there might be conditions coming along with that - I mean, this isn't investigative undercover whistleblower stuff we're talking about, but video game reviews.
The conditions did not exist when he received the code. Of course they should have got him to agree beforehand if they wanted to implement an extremely irregular post-release embargo. Many reasonable reviewers would not want to agree to those terms, so standard practise from a competent PR team would to discuss it ahead of time, not to attempt to thrust those terms onto someone who has already been sent the review code.Playing the "you should have told me before / have me sign something" card simply is disingenious in that regard. If these conditions don't suit you, you should refuse the code/copy.
A reviewer playing a game they were sent, ignoring an absurd embargo request sent after the fact, is totally doing their job.
I've seen it advertised on you tube media like Playstation Access, Shenmue is a niche series and there's no point advertising it on more mainstream media like tv commercials IMO.
I've been sent review code many times, and had lots of back and forth emails from PRs. Including those representing Deep Silver games etc. The only times I can ever recall an exchange playing out like this one were APB, which multiple press outlets broke the embargo on because it was a ridiculous post-release embargo, and Broken Age, which the developer backtracked on because they realised how ridiculous their post release embargo plan was.I disagree on most of what you're saying apart from the bit that they shouldn't have sent him a code. I have no idea if you have first-hand experience in the industry, and if that was the case how such a black-or-white view of how things are supposed to work would be viable. So it's probably best to stop here.
No.Shouldn't you boycott the game on principle nevertheless given the fact that Yu Suzuki has chosen to work with the company and is therefore tainted forever? Arguing that this decision was made before shit went down doesn't count, as the Deep Silver people also had nothing at all to do with it and are considered guilty by association anyway.
I'm not sure what role/experience you have in the industry you have either, but I hope you don't consider how this has been handled as standard PR practice.
I might not have handled things exactly the same way Kirk did here (I'd have probably just told the PR that I would not accept the embargo), but I think he's well within his rights to have done as he has.
Many journalists are edgy rebels, and in fact being so makes them better at their jobs.Let's say I'm in the indutry since before the current century, so I feel fairly confident to say I've experienced a lot of scenarios surriounding embaro stuff.
I don't dispute he's within his rights, but I very much feel pulling the "I don't have signed anything" card is disingenious and the whole thing is engineered to make him look like some kind of edgy rebel. Talking to PR again to find a reasonable solution instead of shitting on them publicly just yet is a crappy move.
If I'm not mistaken haven't the last two high profile games of the month, Death Stranding and Star Wars, had day one review embargos? Why are we choosing to pick on this game?
You have no control over the review embargo only your purchasing habits.
Many journalists are edgy rebels, and in fact being so makes them better at their jobs.
Haven't seen anything yet 🤷🏼♂️
For someone who seems very concerned about somebody else spreading "misinformation" you really don't seem to apply those same standards to your own postsIf I'm not mistaken haven't the last two high profile games of the month, Death Stranding and Star Wars, had day one review embargos? Why are we choosing to pick on this game?
From the Twitter that shared the initial news. He changed the story an hour later. You can easily find his Tweets. The subject of this thread originally claimed it was universally embargo'd and the entire forum was ready to proclaim Shenmue 3 dead in the water. When you wake up on the 19th you will see Shenmue 3 reviews... Every other big release this month has had a launch day embargo, so why is this news?I'm reading the last page and I'm genuinely trying to understand where the "so it was all just FAKE NEWS?!" sentiment is coming from.
So it's still true for a large number of outletsFrom the Twitter that shared the initial news. He changed the story an hour later. You can easily find his Tweets. The subject of this thread originally claimed it was universally embargo's.
Death Stranding embargo was up on November 1. Release was November 8.If I'm not mistaken haven't the last two high profile games of the month, Death Stranding and Star Wars, had day one review embargos? Why are we choosing to pick on this game?
Death Stranding reviews dropped on the 1st of November.
Death Stranding released on the 8th of November.
The 1st of November is before the 8th of November.
Star Wars Jedi: Fallen Order reviews dropped on the 14th of November.
Star Wars Jedi: Fallen Order released on the 15th of November.
The 14th of November is before the 15th of November.
I guess there could be timezone shenanigans, but even day of release is a very different prospect to after release.Where i live Jedi Fallen Order reviews dropped on the 15th. It was at midnight EST US.
I guess there could be timezone shenanigans, but even day of release is a very different prospect to after release.
How did he change the story?From the Twitter that shared the initial news. He changed the story an hour later. You can easily find his Tweets. The subject of this thread originally claimed it was universally embargo'd and the entire forum was ready to proclaim Shenmue 3 dead in the water. When you wake up on the 19th you will see Shenmue 3 reviews... Every other big release this month has had a launch day embargo, so why is this news?
yes, Shenmue fanboys and girls are sensitive to the constant negative attention to the game we waited 18 years for. Deep Silver is an awful company. Blah blah blah.
Right, I just mean I found reviews that were published on the 14th in my timezone, but I guess that could have been the 15th in the timezone where the reviewer is.Technically their embargo is for release in the region though. though "region locking" on reviews is idiotic.
He's publishing his review on the 19th. You'll see plenty of other reviews tomorrow. Why is that worth a nearly 8 page thread of outrage? I don't recall the forum being upset about embargo's for higher profile games.How did he change the story?
He said reviews were embargoed until November 21.
Which they are.
In the UK.
Where he is based.
It's his fault people wrongfully assumed that applied worldwide?
my opinion IS shit, but I gotta say, Shenmue is so good and i'm sure Shenmue 3 will be too.
So, he didn't change his story, then?He's publishing his review on the 19th. You'll see plenty of other reviews tomorrow. Why is that worth a nearly 8 page thread of outrage? I don't recall the forum being upset about embargo's for higher profile games.
Some people just clearly like attacking Kickstarter-based games.
He's publishing his review on the 19th. You'll see plenty of other reviews tomorrow. Why is that worth a nearly 8 page thread of outrage? I don't recall the forum being upset about embargo's for higher profile games.
Some people just clearly like attacking Kickstarter-based games.
It's shenmue, the publisher/developer could do any dishonest, outrageous or shady things and people will be lining up to defend them.