Quixzlizx

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,591
You should figure out the most efficient way to use your money. For instance, if you have credit card debt that has an 18% interest rate, it's always better to pay that off before investing. But investing might be a better idea than paying down your 3% mortgage early.
 

BeforeU

Banned for use of alt account
Banned
Oct 30, 2017
1,936
he is right, hording money doesn't make you rich, but you actually lose money by hording due to inflation. If thats what he meant. but saving and investing will grow your money
 

Sheepinator

Member
Jul 25, 2018
28,412
The nominal value of savings depreciates over time with inflation, if they're earning next to nothing in interest. Put in $100 here at various decades to see the effect of inflation. You should want to stay ahead of that.

https://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl

Still, it's better to have savings doing nothing that not have any at all. You said you paid off your student debt, OP. It's commendable to pay down debts but I was under the impression that's among the cheapest debt you can have? What I'm getting at is, say you pay off $50K of a low interest debt, then you get a mortgage which is at a higher interest and you need $50K more on that loan because you just spent it on the student debt, well now you're worse off.

The best thing is to avoid high interest and fees wherever possible. Don't take out $20 at a time from the ATM and pay 10%-20% in fees. Don't buy things if your interest rate will be up to 17%. I know people can get trapped in poverty and that may be easier said than done. I paid with a cashiers check for my house, so I have no mortgage payments, whereas if you get a mortgage for 80% of the cost, that can add up to well over 100% spent of the loan amount spent on interest, most of which is front loaded. If you get a $200K mortgage on a $250K house, over 30 years at 4% that's over $500K paid. OTOH if you buy the house later than earlier because you're saving, the house may well have gone up in price.

https://www.bankrate.com/calculators/mortgages/mortgage-calculator.aspx
 

Doran

Member
Jun 9, 2018
1,853
I believe in the theory of paying off all of your debts as quick as you can targeting the smallest debts first followed by the largest last (regardless of interest rates) and then investing your savings to make them grow. It has worked well for me.

I think you did the right thing by trying to tackle your debt, who knows what the future holds for better or worse, without the debt you will be in the best position to handle it or prosper.
 

MegaRockEXE

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 29, 2017
4,031
Have I been doing it right? I have no debts and have in savings equal what my annual salary is, making decent interest. I was recently opted in to my company 401k and I already had a Roth IRA.
But I hear you need to have a million dollars saved to retire, so that's still way off.
 
Oct 27, 2017
12,550
The only thing I'm doing is that I have 10k in a high yield CD accruing for 5 years. The rest of my money is in my bank account and I have no idea anything about investments and it's insane to me that everyone is just like "just do X, no biggie" like nobody knows wtf any of this stuff means and there's very little out there that really breaks it down for the average person.

The only debt I currently have is 4k in student loans left, with a 6.6 interest rate that i just pay monthly. No idea if it's smart to just pay that off or not, or put that money elsewhere.
 

captive

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,119
Houston
"You need to get on that stat! You are leaving money on the table. ."- I am referring to company 401k with match. For instance, if my company offers 6% match on the first 6% I put in for the 401k, if I am making 100k, I put in 6k, they will give me 6k to my 401k. So instead of 6k, I have 12k a year for my 401k. Combine that with compound interest over time, you are maxing your earning potential for the 401k.

"The only exception if their offerings suck and have high fees If that's the case, you need to open up your own IRA or Roth IRA. They can have better offerings."-Some companies do not match or have 401k funds that have high fees. In those cases, it's better to get a Roth or Roth IRA. They have better performing and lower cost funds.

Now if you don't know what a 401k or Roth or Roth Ira is, you are going to need to Google that. To summarize, they are usually a collection/index of stocks and or bonds that you invest in for retirement. They have different contribution limits and different rules.
were you just making an example or are you actually aware of companies offering 100% match on 6%? cause i havent seen any. They're usually 50 cents to the dollar for the first 6% or half of the first 6% up to 3% and all this annoyingly confusing shit.
 

Wiped

Banned
Nov 2, 2017
2,096
But spending all your money on things which won't be worth anything will make you poor
 

CreepingFear

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
16,766
were you just making an example or are you actually aware of companies offering 100% match on 6%? cause i havent seen any. They're usually 50 cents to the dollar for the first 6% or half of the first 6% up to 3% and all this annoyingly confusing shit.
At my current company, they offer 3% Safe Harbor which doesn't require me doing anything and it's fully vest right away. For the other 3%, it's contribute 6% and receive 6% @ 50 cents on the dollar. I also get an extra 2% with company profit sharing as long as company did well. So effectively, I put in 6%, I get 6-8% back.
 

Sheepinator

Member
Jul 25, 2018
28,412
If your company has a 401K matching, do ensure to put in at least enough to get 100% of the matching. For instance if they let you put in say 6%, and they'll 100% match everything up to the first 4%, then make sure to put in at least 4%. If they have Employee Share Purchase Plan, where you can get shares at a discount every 6 months say, do that too. Sell them immediately if you don't want the risk, but at least you'll be selling at a higher price than you paid.
 
OP
OP
The Artisan

The Artisan

"Angels are singing in monasteries..."
Moderator
Oct 27, 2017
8,363
I'm really embarrassed to say while I do think my company does do 401k matching I don't even know what it is, how much I have in it or how to, other than it has to do with retirement

This thread is opening up more questions for me though so I'll definitely have to look through it when I have more time, currently on mobile
 

Darknight

"I'd buy that for a dollar!"
Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,177
That makes sense but everyone is in this thread saying "Invest, Invest". That doesn't mean much to the average American making it day to day. "Grow your money at a faster rate than interest"... okay.. how? Sounds alot more difficult than to just tell someone to do it.

What fund has a stupid high interest return that isn't completely volatile? Is that the best move to do when old stupid head is in the White House cratering the stock market with tweets?

People can do more with money they actually have. Making decisions like not buying a 90K Car over a 40K one, and not cooking your Credit Card on shopping sprees goes along way on the day to day.

One of the safest thing you can do is throw your money into index funds as overall, they generally go up over time. The key is not to look at the short term and panic when something dips, but to look at the overall long term. If you stick to some basic principles like that and don't have a knee jerk reaction, you generally come out ahead. It's also good to diversify too rather than dumping it all into one thing like index funds. There are plenty of guides and things people can read online if people actually are interested. It's not some high bar that needs to be crossed for people to learn and jump in on this. Ignoring people outside of this forum, this forum has good threads on investing for retiring that are extremely helpful and anyone on here should at the very least be glancing over at info dumps like that if they're interested. If you have the money to pay down your debt at a faster rate, then you have extra money at your disposal that could be better utilized. It's better to know this than to take a general stance of always pay your debt as fast as you can, or never go into debt.
 

Cilidra

A friend is worth more than a million Venezuelan$
Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,499
Ottawa
I'm really embarrassed to say while I do think my company does do 401k matching I don't even know what it is, how much I have in it or how to, other than it has to do with retirement

This thread is opening up more questions for me though so I'll definitely have to look through it when I have more time, currently on mobile
If your company match TAKE ADVANTAGE of that. It's basically free money they are giving you if you put money in your retirement fund.

The thing is the earlier you invest/save the more you earn. It's the magic of compound interest:
https://www.fool.com/how-to-invest/thirteen-steps/step-1-change-your-life-with-one-calculation.aspx
 

Swauny Jones

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,863
Jesus Christ how out of touch are you. You don't have to retire at 30 to be rich, but if you can accrue that much wealth that quickly you'll have much, much, much more when you do reach retirement age. Where do you children come from where you imagine 'rich' means 'retired'

You need to simmer down a little. You said having a million dollars in your thirties makes you "pretty rich" which is what I was commenting on. It in no way shape or form eludes to you earning much more than that leading up to retirement.
 

Catdaddy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,963
TN
Well -- Paying off loans isn't always the smartest thing unless you have a high amount of debt. I have a 0% car loan and instead of paying off the car, I have the money invested and even with a volatile market making a good (was great) return. Same with a mortgage, refinanced back in 2016 and have a 2.77% interest rate, as long as my long term investments make more than 2.77% no since in paying off the house. I guess one could argue by paying something off you would then have more money available to invest, but I go toward the former.
 
OP
OP
The Artisan

The Artisan

"Angels are singing in monasteries..."
Moderator
Oct 27, 2017
8,363
If your company match TAKE ADVANTAGE of that. It's basically free money they are giving you if you put money in your retirement fund.

The thing is the earlier you invest/save the more you earn. It's the magic of compound interest:
https://www.fool.com/how-to-invest/thirteen-steps/step-1-change-your-life-with-one-calculation.aspx
The thing with that is I think I started 401k with a different company that I worked at and then I left that job. Does my 401k continue with a new employer if they also offer it?
 

Darknight

"I'd buy that for a dollar!"
Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,177
Your co-worker is an idiot. Save as much as you can while still spending on the things that make your life enjoyable (a nice dinner, vacations, whatever you enjoy). Don't live beyond your means, but if you want to retire dont count on the Govt or you employer to do the saving for you.

It's clear from this thread that the OP isn't investing and doesn't even know if he's taking advantage of their company's 401k matching. So I think you're jumping the gun claiming their co-worker is an idiot without the full context.
 

Spinluck

▲ Legend ▲
Avenger
Oct 26, 2017
28,986
Chicago
Saving is part of it.

Building a portfolio will make you rich, saving is part of that but your money is better used investing.

Scared money don't make none.
 

Cilidra

A friend is worth more than a million Venezuelan$
Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,499
Ottawa
The thing with that is I think I started 401k with a different company that I worked at and then I left that job. Does my 401k continue with a new employer if they also offer it?
What you invest already stay in the old 401k (still yours). The 401k with the new comapny would be a new one. You can have multiple 401k.
 

Pungza

Member
Oct 27, 2017
38
While you're young invest and take advantage of compound interest


05fsJwV.jpg


  • Our first investor starts saving $300 per month at the age of 25
  • The second follows Altucher's advice, waits ten years, and starts saving $300 per month at 35
  • The third investor waits even longer and starts saving at 40, but in order to try to catch up, puts $600 into her account each month

If we assume a respectable but reasonably conservative annual rate of return of 5%, here's what happens to our three investors' accounts
 

Sorian

One Winged Slayer
Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
9,964
Have I been doing it right? I have no debts and have in savings equal what my annual salary is, making decent interest. I was recently opted in to my company 401k and I already had a Roth IRA.
But I hear you need to have a million dollars saved to retire, so that's still way off.

You have too much in savings to be honest, if you have a whole years salary in there, you can probably take about half that and put it into an investment vehicle as opposed to letting it sit in an account making no or barely any interest.
 

hyouko

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,325
were you just making an example or are you actually aware of companies offering 100% match on 6%? cause i havent seen any. They're usually 50 cents to the dollar for the first 6% or half of the first 6% up to 3% and all this annoyingly confusing shit.
*raises hand* The company I work for does a straight 100% match up to 6%. I just checked the math against my 401k site to be sure I wasn't misremembering. Not common by any means, but it does happen.
 

Deleted member 33887

User requested account closure
Banned
Nov 20, 2017
2,109
The nature of my work means that my income can be quite volatile. Cutting down on luxuries and saving is far more effective for having money than chasing more and more dollars, in my experience.

I swear this board makes it seem like everybody invests their money. I only save about £1500-2000 a year so it's probably not worth it, right?

I think the answer is a lot more complicated if you're not in the United States. In general it is good if you can invest, but there are also countries that have been stagnant for long periods of time. Over the last 30 years, the Nikkei has had negative returns. Granted Japan isn't every country, but I wouldn't blindly be throwing money into a market when it could just increase your tax burden. The Shanghai Stock Exchange was stagnant for a very long time, had a massive bubble, then deflated back down to something above where it had been but 1/3rd of the highs. People always say you can just wait it out, but you're probably not out waiting a 15-30 year stagnation.

If you're in the UK, Brexit could kneecap any sort of growth for a long time. It might be a good time to buy in if you can time the bottom well, but it also might be unmitigated economic disaster. Once you start investing in a foreign stock market the tax situation usually isn't as favorable. So if I were in a European country and the social safety was very good, I would probably be less inclined to invest, especially if my country's stock market has a long history of poor returns. At a minimum, I would make sure I had a large reserve of money first (6 months is what they usually recommend).

On the other hand if you're in the UK, it might also be a good time to invest in other markets to try to spread the risk of your savings suddenly being worth a lot less if Brexit is an absolute disaster. But I would do a lot of research first before doing anything.
 
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darkazcura

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,976
It should be noted that savings accounts are in a much better place nowadays than just a few years ago. It isn't hard to find a bank that offers over 2% APY for interest rate now. For years, interest rates were laughably below 1%. Online banks have helped a lot in this regard. If the stock market scares you, I'd say at least get one of those accounts until you better understand what options you have in the market.

Savings accounts suck these days and usually give little to no interest. You are better off investing it. This is assuming you have an emergency fund already. Chances of becoming rich are still slim, but maybe you can retire a little earlier. Does your company offer a 401k with matching?

Not totally the case anymore. I remember when most banks were below 1%, hell 0.5%. > 2% that you can get with a lot of online banks is really good to be honest.
 

Zhengi

Avenger
Oct 28, 2017
1,929
We have two savings accounts right now. One pays 2% and the other 3.8% interest. Only reason we have these accounts is that we depleted our savings account when we bought a house and put in money for other home essentials. It was nice seeing about $600 in interest earned for us last year. We are starting to build back our savings account as an emergency fund and to welcome our first child. After that, we'll see what we do if we have any money left over after all the expenses.

So in essence, it depends on your life circumstances, but saving doesn't make you poorer.
 

Davilmar

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,345
What you invest already stay in the old 401k (still yours). The 401k with the new comapny would be a new one. You can have multiple 401k.

I genuinely hate that. What little income I have after paying expenses, debt and taxes gets eaten up by two 401(k)s. I think the plan at my new company I'd a 401(a), so this makes it even mot confusing.
 

ccbfan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,508
Savings don't make you rich but investing your savings do.

The two most important things to investing are time and money.

The more time you have the less money you need.

Its also why its super important to not fuck up your early 20s (contrary to what most people say) and being able to invest 10-15 years earlier especially since you have so much less responsibilities in your early 20s. That head start means you can have 2-4 times more money than someone starting in their 30s.
 

Gatti-man

Banned
Jan 31, 2018
2,359
That's not even close to being rich. A million dollars was considered rich maybe 25 years ago. That is so not the case now.
A million dollars is rich to people who make less than 150k a year. Just on basic interest you can retire on that plus social security. To me that's rich. The word rich can stretch to whatever you want it to but having your money allow you not to work is fucking rich. Now maybe not for a couple but for 1 person a million cash/invested is rich.

While you're young invest and take advantage of compound interest


05fsJwV.jpg
The only problem I have with this chart is really you need far more tonretire with than 500k. I'd be scared shitless to retire with only that much in the bank. Double that at minimum.
 

DigitalOp

Member
Nov 16, 2017
9,421
One of the safest thing you can do is throw your money into index funds as overall, they generally go up over time. The key is not to look at the short term and panic when something dips, but to look at the overall long term. If you stick to some basic principles like that and don't have a knee jerk reaction, you generally come out ahead. It's also good to diversify too rather than dumping it all into one thing like index funds. There are plenty of guides and things people can read online if people actually are interested. It's not some high bar that needs to be crossed for people to learn and jump in on this. Ignoring people outside of this forum, this forum has good threads on investing for retiring that are extremely helpful and anyone on here should at the very least be glancing over at info dumps like that if they're interested. If you have the money to pay down your debt at a faster rate, then you have extra money at your disposal that could be better utilized. It's better to know this than to take a general stance of always pay your debt as fast as you can, or never go into debt.

I appreciate this info, Im going to search out those threads since investing always sounds more complicated that it really is. You mainly just need the disposable income to start I assume.
 

Darknight

"I'd buy that for a dollar!"
Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,177
I appreciate this info, Im going to search out those threads since investing always sounds more complicated that it really is. You mainly just need the disposable income to start I assume.

No prob, here's a good thread to help get you going and don't be afraid to ask questions. There are plenty of good knowledgeable people there that are glad to help.

https://www.resetera.com/threads/retirement-era-ot-how-to-invest-for-retirement.1453/

You're also right that you just need disposable income to start. I know for many that can be the barrier that's hard to overcome so there's no faulting for someone who just can't, but if you have the means, you really should get started on it even if it's something simple and conservative because something is better than nothing and the earlier you get started, the better you'll be in the long term. Just get something going and you can expand and grow into other methods of investing as you get used to how things work and expand your knowledge of what the options are. Also if you can, get in on taking advantage of credit card rewards if you aren't already. That's an easy way to save at least 1% of money you spend and more if you take advantage of the things that are offered from them.
 

Muu

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
2,011
There's no magic threshold where you're either rich or you're poor, OP. There's no harm in managing wasteful spending, and you WILL feel better about money when you always have a $5-10k buffer so when emergencies happen you can worry about the emergency instead of the money aspect. Over time you can have that snowball from a buffer to retirement investments to money in index funds. If you haven't already make sure you throw in 5500 for last year's Roth before that window closes, since depending on your tax bracket that's at least a grand in tax savings.

I appreciate this info, Im going to search out those threads since investing always sounds more complicated that it really is. You mainly just need the disposable income to start I assume.

Take a look at intro threads in personal finance subreddits, some threads on era, also look up the three fund portfolio from bogleheads as well as info there. There's a lot to learn about this stuff, but the upside is that what you learn will help you snowball your money in the future.
 

reKon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,048
Not much more needs to be said than there already has.

Go play around with a compound interest calculator (google search) to see what happens when you let your money "work for you". Change the different variables around (initial contribution, monthly/year contribution, interest rate, period..). Time is by far the most important component when it comes to this. Ideally you would be continuously contributing and overtime on average be achieving a return on investment of 5% at the very least via low fee S&P 500 or total index funds over 20+ years. Even if you aren't saving for retirement and separate taxable accounts, you would be off than sticking it in a savings account.

I would invest into 401K until company match (if any), max out ROTH IRA, since you can take out the amount you made in contributions out tax free (think of it as a secondary emergency savings fund), and then invest rest to max out the 401K.
 

darkazcura

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,976
A million dollars is rich to people who make less than 150k a year. Just on basic interest you can retire on that plus social security. To me that's rich. The word rich can stretch to whatever you want it to but having your money allow you not to work is fucking rich. Now maybe not for a couple but for 1 person a million cash/invested is rich.


The only problem I have with this chart is really you need far more tonretire with than 500k. I'd be scared shitless to retire with only that much in the bank. Double that at minimum.

I'd say the point of that chart is simply to express what a difference your starting point makes and less to do with 500k being enough to retire on. I think most understand that more time in the oven is best, but seeing it expressed is another thing.
 

Deleted member 33887

User requested account closure
Banned
Nov 20, 2017
2,109

That depends on the country you're in and the country your investments are in. Worst case scenario, there's no tax treaty and you get taxed by your country and the country your investment is in. More favorably you just pay the tax rate of the country your investment is in, but that may be higher than if you were a citizen. Some of the dividend withholding of various countries if you're a non-citizen:

Switzerland: 36%
Australia: 30%
France: 30%
Italy: 26%
Taiwan: 21%
Spain: 19%

But if you were a US citizen and investing in the UK market, then your dividend withholding rate is 0% because there's a very favorable tax treaty. Treaties that are this good are fairly rare. But the US does have a tax treaty with Switzerland so the withholding for a US citizen is only 15%. Anyways, the smaller your country the fewer favorable tax treaties it may have. For example, Croatia had very few tax treaties, but it has started signing a few in the last couple years.

The simplest example would be if you're a non-US citizen investing in the US market with no tax treaty with your country. You have a 30% withholding rate for any dividends. You won't owe the US any capital gains, but you may owe capital gains in your home country (fairly likely you will, and it will likely be taxed as ordinary income). You might also get taxed on the dividends in your home country. The best case taxation scenario in the US if you're a citizen is you owe absolutely no taxes if you had long term capital gains, qualified dividends, and your income is low enough.
 
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Wraith

Member
Jun 28, 2018
8,892
  1. Keeping up with regular payments
  2. Emergency Fund (starting small, replenish as needed)
  3. High-Interest Debt (esp. credit cards)
  4. Retirement Savings (ex. 401k)
  5. Grow Emergency Fund
  6. Low-Interest Debt
 

Sub Boss

Banned
Nov 14, 2017
13,441
In a way, he is right you need to invest money, not just save all of it.finances education ,however as it is for your student debt thats a worthy goal ,erase that debt.
 

siteseer

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,048
i just saw this pop up on my feed and it looks decent enough advice for the 'everyman'.
1. Max your 401(k) or equivalent employee contribution.
2. Buy inexpensive, well-diversified mutual funds such as Vanguard Target 20xx funds.
3. Never buy or sell an individual security. The person on the other side of the table knows more than you do about this stuff.
4. Save 20% of your money.
5. Pay your credit card balance in full every month.
6. Maximize tax-advantaged savings vehicles like Roth, SEP and 529 accounts.
7. Pay attention to fees. Avoid actively managed funds.

8. Make financial advisors commit to the fiduciary standard.
9. Promote social insurance programs to help people when things go wrong.
4. i'd roll that 20% into #2, but only after putting together a rainy day fund in a high interest savings account.
5. no debt is best, unless your some financial wizard.
 
Jun 10, 2018
9,092
The nature of my work means that my income can be quite volatile. Cutting down on luxuries and saving is far more effective for having money than chasing more and more dollars, in my experience.

I swear this board makes it seem like everybody invests their money. I only save about £1500-2000 a year so it's probably not worth it, right?
I save significantly less than that and still invest. The only real benefit you won't be able to do at a lower income level when investing is DRIP-ing your investments (basically using your returns to automatically purchase more of a stock/ETF/index) so as to compound and maximize your quarterly/yearly dividend earnings and value. And even then, there are low-cost options available that you can DRIP and still have that going, albeit not returning you the same amount. The low-cost options are typically recommended for starter investors anyway since they're not as volatile and offer brokers price/value stability.

If you really want to get started, I highly recommend Vanguard for you since they have a plethora of reference material available on the website to guide newcomers in the world of investing.
 

SapientWolf

Member
Nov 6, 2017
6,565
My 401k quickly dwarfed my savings despite putting more money into savings. Compound interest is ridiculous. No reason not to take advantage of it if you still have a ways to go before retirement.
 

Introvert

Member
Nov 5, 2017
335
I've got a high-yield (lol) online savings account with Barclays with a 2.20% interest rate. CIT Bank has one with 2.45% interest, but you need to deposit $100 per month (or keep a balance of $25,000+) to get that rate. I actually earned enough in interest last year that they mailed me a tax document. I don't know if I'm outpacing inflation, but it sure is nice watching free money come every month.