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Oct 27, 2017
13,464
Joe and Anthony Russo, the brothers behind 'Avengers' and a number of Marvel films, have finally broken their silence on filmmaker Martin Scorsese's comments on superhero Marvel movies where he likened them to "theme park" and called them "not cinema".

Scorsese had at a press conference last month added to his earlier remarks on Marvel films saying, "It's not cinema, it's something else".

Now, finally, Russo brothers have stepped in to defend superhero flicks saying, "Ultimately, we define cinema as a film that can bring people together to have a shared, emotional experience."

The two revealed that they grew up watching both genre movies and art house films and used to stay up late on Saturdays to enjoy late-night genre movies with their father. However, they excelled in superhero flicks like 'Avengers: Endgame' which was a box office hit.

"When we look at the box office [of] 'Avengers: Endgame', we don't see that as a signifier of financial success, we see it as a signifier of emotional success," The Hollywood Reporter quoted Joe as saying.

"It's a movie that had an unprecedented impact on audiences around the world in the way that they shared that narrative and the way that they experienced it. And the emotions they felt watching it," the filmmaker added.

Earlier, while putting forth his views on such flicks, Scorsese had noted that he tried to watch a few Marvel films, but quickly abandoned them.

Referring to which, the Russo brothers added that it's tough to have a debate about cinema with Scorsese if he hasn't watched the films.

"But, at the end of the day, what do we know? We're just two guys from Cleveland, Ohio, and 'cinema' is a New York word. In Cleveland, we call them movies," Joe said.

Meanwhile, Anthony quipped in, "The other way to think about it, too, is nobody owns cinema. We don't own cinema. You don't own cinema. Scorsese doesn't own cinema."
 

Shining Star

Banned
May 14, 2019
4,458
Ultimately, we define cinema as a film.

I mean they could have stopped there. But also, why are we still talking about this?
 
Dec 31, 2017
1,396
gsVLDLQ_d.jpg
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,709
at this point i feel like they should all just get Whatsapp and make a group chat so they can talk about this shit among themselves.
 

P-MAC

Member
Nov 15, 2017
4,485
"old man makes meaningless off the cuff comment"

"entire world reacts in-depth for no reason"
 

onpoint

Neon Deity Games
Verified
Oct 26, 2017
15,009
716
This is such a non-story just let it die already you could counter with 'OK Boomer' and be done
 

caffe misto

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,111
the electric city
"When we look at the box office [of] 'Avengers: Endgame', we don't see that as a signifier of financial success, we see it as a signifier of emotional success," The Hollywood Reporter quoted Joe as saying.
LOL this is such horse shit. The dudes who made a movie about Captain America and Iron Man beating each other up because they disagree about a government bill are explaining emotional success in film to Martin Scorsese.
 
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Solo

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
15,776
When we look at the box office [of] 'Avengers: Endgame', we don't see that as a signifier of financial success, we see it as a signifier of emotional success," The Hollywood Reporter quoted Joe as saying.

What a load of shit.
 

TheMango55

Banned
Nov 1, 2017
5,788
This article doesn't give the context. Where were they when they said this? Was it an unprompted statement or were they answering an interview question?
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
116,137
"When we look at the box office [of] 'Avengers: Endgame', we don't see that as a signifier of financial success, we see it as a signifier of emotional success," The Hollywood Reporter quoted Joe as saying.

My eyes just rolled so far back into my head that they've created their own gravity.

Russos, you REALLY don't need to waste your time responding to this shit. It just makes you look petty and wounded.
 

EDebs1916

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
483
What are the resonant themes on the human condition we're supposed to walk away from Avengers End Game with?
 

DMczaf

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,276
Las Vegas, NV
When we look at the box office [of] 'Avengers: Endgame', we don't see that as a signifier of financial success, we see it as a signifier of emotional success," The Hollywood Reporter quoted Joe as saying.

Remember when they hyped up having the first LGBT+ character in a Marvel film, and it ended up being one of them as a throwaway cameo ?

Yeah, this eye rolling quote is par for the course.
 

alr1ght

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,063
Hoo boy, those are some embarassing ass answers.

Scorsese explained himself quite well in the NYT and explains that superhero movies are producer controlled, paint by numbers films with little input from directors.
 

Fisty

Member
Oct 25, 2017
20,287
Marvel folks can stop answering these questions any time, no idea why they feel they need to keep this embarassment going
 
Oct 29, 2017
4,069
'Referring to which, the Russo brothers added that it's tough to have a debate about cinema with Scorsese if he hasn't watched the films.'

I mean this has always been the sticking point for me.

Also I can't believe this is still going on but I guess me and everyone else responding about how it's still going on are part of the problem.
 

msdstc

Member
Nov 6, 2017
6,877
'Referring to which, the Russo brothers added that it's tough to have a debate about cinema with Scorsese if he hasn't watched the films.'

I mean this has always been the sticking point for me.

Also I can't believe this is still going on but I guess me and everyone else responding about how it's still going on are part of the problem.

yeah that and you're all taking it too literally and personally. It's extremely clear was Martin was going for. This isn't even me being bias for Martin, I actually can't stand the guy despite his incredible movies, but his analogy makes perfect sense and it really doesn't have to go much deeper than that. I don't know why these movies have become so sacred, it's outrageous.
 

Brakke

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,798
The breathless copy in that article is so ridiculous. "Finally." "Revealed." The comments are as mundane as a Marvel movie but the article's trying so hard to frame them as spicy.
 

Deleted member 2145

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
29,223
people clowning the emotional success bit

but I've never heard so many people openly weep during a movie before

honestly the only movie experience I have that came close to seeing Endgame in theaters in terms of the shared emotional vibe was Cast Away
 

Veelk

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,720
Earlier, while putting forth his views on such flicks, Scorsese had noted that he tried to watch a few Marvel films, but quickly abandoned them.

I haven't been following the Scorsese thing much because I really don't care all that much, but this sticks out to me because it's something we consistently see with anyone who dismisses a medium or genre as being incapable of artistic merit.

When Roger Ebert said videogames are not art, he didn't say that having played the best examples of the medium. He was only aware of videogames at a conceptual level, that they are interactive experiences with pixelated approximations. At best, his kid and grandkids played it and told him about them. When Bill Maher denegrated comics, how many comics do you think he read to have come to that conclusion? None. He doesn't have any idea how deep the rabbithole goes.

And now Scorsese apparently can't even bring himself to watch the movies he's making such a sweeping judgement of? I'm not saying he can't have this opinion and there is plenty to criticize about Marvel in terms of artistic merit or lackthereof, but it's worth asking why we take the opinions of people seriously when they don't even bother to engage with the thing they're making such a sweeping judgement of.

Like, if Scorsese had actually put in the effort of watching, examining, and trying to understand Marvel movies and then came to the conclusion there is something distinct that separates them from the sort of cinema he regards as true art, then you could atleast have confidence knowing he examined them seriously to make such a statement.

But apparently, he doesn't even bother, he thinks knowing them by reputation is enough. Which is how every old man yelling at clouds about how lacking the next generation is. And that'd be fine, but at this point this is a weeks-long controversy that has prompted several threads and celebrities all to give their individual takes

All over someone who, even if you do agree with his conclusion, doesn't actually know what he's talking about because he never actually engaged with the material. Doesn't that strike anyone else as absurd?
 

Window

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,287
This article doesn't give the context. Where were they when they said this? Was it an unprompted statement or were they answering an interview question?
This is the original article. It was during a THR interview when promoting their new film 21 Bridges.

Hate it when articles which are just simply re-using content from other articles don't provide the original source.
 

cyba89

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,635
Ultimately, we define cinema as a film.

I mean they could have stopped there. But also, why are we still talking about this?

Because interviewers keep asking about it during regular promo tours and the Marvel vs Scorsese "controversy" gets you easy clicks (and Resetera threads).
 

Extra Sauce

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,938
the fact that people are still responding to this, and responding to the responses shows how much of a chord Scorsese struck.

it's healthy to criticize the biggest fish in our arts and entertainment pond and the fact that people are having a borderline allergic reaction to said criticism says more about them than it says about Scorsese.
 

msdstc

Member
Nov 6, 2017
6,877
people clowning the emotional success bit

but I've never heard so many people openly weep during a movie before

honestly the only movie experience I have that came close to seeing Endgame in theaters in terms of the shared emotional vibe was Cast Away

That's totally fine, certain movies and subjects resonate more with other people. Comic book movies have a massive place in a lot of people's lives AND we've never really seen anything like the MCU where you have literally 20+ movies to attach yourself to this world and these characters. It's very clear why people would get emotional, that's not exactly what Martin is driving at, but again here we go again where people just missed the point and are taking it way too personally.
 

Ryan.

Prophet of Truth
The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
12,906
Y'all want these articles to stop but y'all still keeping giving these reporters a reason to talk about this.
 

onpoint

Neon Deity Games
Verified
Oct 26, 2017
15,009
716
What's the headline here? If we really had to distill it down and write a headline?

Famous director complains about movies he hasn't seen
 

Window

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,287
I haven't been following the Scorsese thing much because I really don't care all that much, but this sticks out to me because it's something we consistently see with anyone who dismisses a medium or genre as being incapable of artistic merit.

When Roger Ebert said videogames are not art, he didn't say that having played the best examples of the medium. He was only aware of videogames at a conceptual level, that they are interactive experiences with pixelated approximations. At best, his kid and grandkids played it and told him about them. When Bill Maher denegrated comics, how many comics do you think he read to have come to that conclusion? None. He doesn't have any idea how deep the rabbithole goes.

And now Scorsese apparently can't even bring himself to watch the movies he's making such a sweeping judgement of? I'm not saying he can't have this opinion and there is plenty to criticize about Marvel in terms of artistic merit or lackthereof, but it's worth asking why we take the opinions of people seriously when they don't even bother to engage with the thing they're making such a sweeping judgement of.

Like, if Scorsese had actually put in the effort of watching, examining, and trying to understand Marvel movies and then came to the conclusion there is something distinct that separates them from the sort of cinema he regards as true art, then you could atleast have confidence knowing he examined them seriously to make such a statement.

But apparently, he doesn't even bother, he thinks knowing them by reputation is enough. Which is how every old man yelling at clouds about how lacking the next generation is. And that'd be fine, but at this point this is a weeks-long controversy that has prompted several threads and celebrities all to give their individual takes

All over someone who, even if you do agree with his conclusion, doesn't actually know what he's talking about because he never actually engaged with the material. Doesn't that strike anyone else as absurd?
Here's Scorsese's original quote:
"I don't see them. I tried, you know? But that's not cinema," Scorsese told Empire. "Honestly, the closest I can think of them, as well made as they are, with actors doing the best they can under the circumstances, is theme parks. It isn't the cinema of human beings trying to convey emotional, psychological experiences to another human being."
It is not clear how many MCU films he's seen. He may have seen a few and then abandoned them, seen a few minutes of a single film, seen just one film or nothing at all.
 

Deleted member 2145

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
29,223
That's totally fine, certain movies and subjects resonate more with other people. Comic book movies have a massive place in a lot of people's lives AND we've never really seen anything like the MCU where you have literally 20+ movies to attach yourself to this world and these characters. It's very clear why people would get emotional, that's not exactly what Martin is driving at, but again here we go again where people just missed the point and are taking it way too personally.

wasn't responding to martin, I was responding to the many people in this thread dumping on the emotional success bit from the OP

you know, like I wrote word for word in my post that you quoted and responded to ironically claiming I missed something
 

Blader

Member
Oct 27, 2017
26,645
Scorsese had at a press conference last month added to his earlier remarks on Marvel films saying, "It's not cinema, it's something else".

I read this quickly and thought it'd said Scorsese held a press conference to deliver more remarks about Marvel movies lol

Remember when they hyped up having the first LGBT+ character in a Marvel film, and it ended up being one of them as a throwaway cameo ?

Yeah, this eye rolling quote is par for the course.
I don't think they did that actually... iirc Feige made an offhand remark about there being a gay character in the movie and the press ran with that as "Endgame to debut Marvel's first LGBT hero" type headlines.

Hoo boy, those are some embarassing ass answers.

Scorsese explained himself quite well in the NYT and explains that superhero movies are producer controlled, paint by numbers films with little input from directors.
That's not really true though. Well, paint by numbers is a subjective judgment call I guess, but the directors have way more input on these things than some seem to think. Even going outside Marvel, Charles Roven at WB would say his role on Nolan's Batman films was to pretty much walk over to set, make an appearance, and pretend like he had something to do. Even on the first Iron Man, Favreau was making up a lot of the movie on the fly.

There's a certain mindset people have of early Marvel Studios -- roughly from like 2008 to 2013 -- where a literal committee dictated filmmaking decisions and story and constrained directors, and that's stuck as the stereotype for all Marvel movies and all superhero movies when that just hasn't been the case for a long time.
 

TheMango55

Banned
Nov 1, 2017
5,788
the fact that people are still responding to this, and responding to the responses shows how much of a chord Scorsese struck.

it's healthy to criticize the biggest fish in our arts and entertainment pond and the fact that people are having a borderline allergic reaction to said criticism says more about them than it says about Scorsese.

Also funny that people apparently aren't allowed to disagree with criticism, especially from someone who hasn't even seen what they are criticizing, without people calling them brainless corporate apologists.
 
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