disparate

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,260
Because it's a big part of what is driving up housing prices in the cities.
If cities didn't virtually ban the ability to actually accommodate people this wouldn't be nearly as much an issue if at all though; but urban planning as a profession is too obsessed with masturbatory nonsense like public consultations and shadow studies.
 
OP
OP
entremet

entremet

You wouldn't toast a NES cartridge
Member
Oct 26, 2017
64,399
If cities didn't virtually ban the ability to actually accommodate people this wouldn't be nearly as much an issue if at all though; but urban planning as a profession is too obsessed with masturbatory nonsense like public consultations and shadow studies.
The problem was solved in Tokyo, a huge city, which is rather affordable--yes, there are expensive areas there too, but it's highly affordable compared to NYC, SF, and LA.

No dumb zoning helps. NIMBYs have no power too. No obsession with environmental review, which is mostly weaponized in the US to prevent building..
 
May 21, 2018
2,312
Because regardless of the dwindling population, people still live there and hold a lot of political power thanks to gerrymandering.

We should be trying to make their lives better, not let them waste away and become even more bitter about "liberal cities" taking everything from them.

Changing our political system into one based purely on popular vote is probably more feasible than trying to reverse economic decline in rural communities that the rural people themselves do everything to vote against fixing.
 
OP
OP
entremet

entremet

You wouldn't toast a NES cartridge
Member
Oct 26, 2017
64,399
Not just rural America. Rural everywhere. Small places simply can't keep up with big ones in a world that moves as fast as ours does. No amount of subsidies and assistance can defeat economies of scale.
There was a small talk of rural being revived by WFH. There was movement, but it was mostly to inner ring suburbs, not rural areas.

Young professionals and families still want to access to amenities missing in rural America.
 

Vipershark

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,908
I feel like rural areas could draw people in by heavily emphasizing lightning fast internet speeds for wfh and then setting up smallish town centers with things to do in them.

People move to cities because of the infrastructure but hate the costs.
Provide a smaller version of that experience with some of the same luxuries that you can get in cities at a fraction of the cost (actual grocery stores, bars and social gathering spaces, a decent hospital and decent schools) and you'll see people moving in.

For me, the suburbs are ideal. I like having a private space that I can call my own without having to share walls with strangers.
 

Violence Jack

Drive-in Mutant
Member
Oct 25, 2017
44,343
Maybe if rural areas would embrace more public transportation or light rail access so that people aren't having to drive 2 hours to get there, and maybe embrace a little more diversity instead of the bigots, then maybe they would attract more workers.

I say this as someone who grew up in a rural area of Georgia and had most of my family have run-ins with the local KKK as well as the bumpkin cops who protected them.
 
OP
OP
entremet

entremet

You wouldn't toast a NES cartridge
Member
Oct 26, 2017
64,399
I feel like rural areas could draw people in by heavily emphasizing lightning fast internet speeds for wfh and then setting up smallish town centers with things to do in them.

People move to cities because of the infrastructure but hate the costs.
Provide a smaller version of that experience with some of the same luxuries that you can get in cities at a fraction of the cost (actual grocery stores, bars and social gathering spaces, a decent hospital and decent schools) and you'll see people moving in.

For me, the suburbs are ideal. I like having a private space that I can call my own without having to share walls with strangers.
The Biden Admin did pass broadband improvements to rural America in the Infrastructure bill. The issue, is that the money is frozen in state and local governments as they put out bids. Knowing how these things work as NYC did something similar with Verizon, it's going to take a long time and also the providers will rip off the government as per usual.
 

t67443

Member
Oct 30, 2017
2,517
I live in a rural 80% red area. The town at least has 2 full large chain grocery stores and several functioning pharmacies. The internet works great and I'm at least working from the house so I don't need to spend hours commuting anywhere.

The area is growing but it's still predominantly factory and agriculture related even though it has a lot of trouble trying to maintain its service jobs. Also a lot of dumbass residents complain frequently about the farmers selling their land, no one wanting to work, and the evils of wind and solar power. They still don't understand why there's no Texas Roadhouse or Golden Corral 🤮 coming to town when Denny's couldn't stay open and of the 8 restaurants the only one that is consistently busy and well staffed is one of the Mexican restaurants. God some of these people suck.
 

Mariachi507

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,619
No. Only option is a Dollar General for groceries unless you want to drive an hour plus to the closest grocery store. No thank you. Yeah housing is cheaper. Of course, it's because of supply and demand.

What you have to sacrifice? Pass.

I live in a rural county in Kentucky. Thankfully we're just 25-50 minutes away from greater civilization, but it's still annoying. Everybody has to drive for work sans a lucky few. All of our local grocery stores ran out of business. We have a Save-a-Lot which doesn't hold a candle whatsoever to even a Walmart grocery (if you want decent food, you have to drive).

To top it off. We have FIVE Dollar Generals, TWO Family Dollars, and one or two Dollar Trees. I can't even keep up with them. They all offer shitty processed junk.
 

CommodoreKong

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,100
The Biden Admin did pass broadband improvements to rural America in the Infrastructure bill. The issue, is that the money is frozen in state and local governments as they put out bids. Knowing how these things work as NYC did something similar with Verizon, it's going to take a long time and also the providers will rip off the government as per usual.

I work with a lot of small rural isps and they're eager to expand their customer base with that money.
 

Radd Redd

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,563
I live in a rural county in Kentucky. Thankfully we're just 25-50 minutes away from greater civilization, but it's still annoying. Everybody has to drive for work sans a lucky few. All of our local grocery stores ran out of business. We have a Save-a-Lot which doesn't hold a candle whatsoever to even a Walmart grocery (if you want decent food, you have to drive).

To top it off. We have FIVE Dollar Generals, TWO Family Dollars, and one or two Dollar Trees. I can't even keep up with them. They all offer shitty processed junk.
I'm not even exaggerating about the Dollar General thing. I know that from experience. Also how everyone in the small town fights for the open Hardee's or McDonald's position that becomes available. I don't miss it.
 

nonoriri

Member
Apr 30, 2020
4,578
God no. I did it college and it was awful.

Aside from being LGBT, I like living in close proximity to all the things. It's not at a "ditch the car" level but I have access to basically anything I could ever want with the nice bonus of many in walking distance and more on public transit.
 

Shizuo-Kun

Member
Sep 30, 2023
400
This is completely self-inflicted, and I have little sympathy for most of these dying towns. I assume many of these towns are regressive, and live by "we're red, or we're dead" mindset to politics. Why on earth would younger people live in backwards, conservative towns? Not only that, these towns have no facilities or infrastructure. Living in a town, where you NEED to drive in order to reach anything sounds like hell.

This is neither new nor exclusive to America. The trend of urbanization has been well-documented for decades now, and these developments were projected. We see similar trends in many industrialized countries. Some countries are further ahead in urbanization, such as Japan or South Korea.
I think that countries like America should adopt the Japanese solution to these dying towns, and let them die their natural deaths. As a solution, focus on expanding these big cities, but also build up moderately sized cities with incentives to move businesses there.

Also suggesting immigration is a solution is kinda silly. Why come to a new country and live in a dying town with no jobs? You want to live in a thriving city like everyone else.
They actually do this in Australia (to a degree) and it doesn't work like some would think. These immigrants stay for as long as they mandated to (3-4 years), leave and move to capital cities. They don't want to live in these country towns which are rife with substance abuse, crime, discrimination and unemployment. All the jobs available in those towns are very, VERY bad and they wonder why those immigrants leave ASAP. They also do this with rural living policy with immigrants doctors, and unsurprisingly, they pack up and leave once their time is up.

Also, one of those dying rural towns in my state in Australia has issues with rainwater being poisoned with lead, and they wonder why nobody wants to live there.


Because it's a big part of what is driving up housing prices in the cities. If these sorts of places had the sorts of opportunities they had in the 50's, 60's, and 70's then we wouldn't be seeing so much migration to the major urban centers. Not only that but you'd see immigrants moving to these places as well, like what happened in the past. There's a knock-on effect that nobody wants to admit exists because if we did it would mean helping these people out in some way.
You are completely right about the housing price situation, but I think keeping these towns on life support is the worst solution. I think more of these big cities need to eliminate zoning regulations and build more high-density living spaces. High prices in places like LA wouldn't matter if developers were allowed to build further and further out, and densify more like Japan. Eventually it'd squash demand by actually supplying places to live.

Honestly i think if all jobs that possibly could would shift to wfh and we changed our work ethos as a society to pivot in that direction i could absolutely see rural places start to build back up more
I wish this could work, but I doubt it would due to vested interests in commercial real estate. I think if more countries legislated WFH as a right, you'd see many housing issues fall.
 

smurfx

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,017
The problem was solved in Tokyo, a huge city, which is rather affordable--yes, there are expensive areas there too, but it's highly affordable compared to NYC, SF, and LA.

No dumb zoning helps. NIMBYs have no power too. No obsession with environmental review, which is mostly weaponized in the US to prevent building..
one thing japan has that the US doesn't is many people don't value old homes. in fact in many places old homes have very little value and the land is what is valuable. compare that to the US and old homes retain their worth which is bad for new buyers.
 
Mar 12, 2024
1,173

Maine is particularly affected. They have the oldest demographics. One town, Lime, disbanded its police force.

Would you move to rural America?

Personally, I'm just more of a city person. I can visit rural America, but not live there.

I did move to (more) rural America and honestly kind of regret it. The original issue was cost of living, so I'm with my folks out here. It's nice to be able to see them, but there is nothing. It's actually a very progressive area, but there's seriously nothing here. The downtown is entirely art galleries or restaurants. There is no one between the ages of 20 and 75. It's bizarre.

I've been trying for more than a year to find a placement for one of my last internships for grad school and potential supervisors just keep moving out or retiring. It's goddamn infuriating. I'm so desperate I'm considering a move to even more remote Florida because they have more hospitals.

So, while I would graduate in my field in a place with many gaps in the market, if I had it to do over again… I probably would've just stuck it out in LA, at least until I got the degree.
 

axlp

Member
Jun 25, 2024
157
Because living in mega city 1 sounds like such a great time

I don't mean to pick on you but whenever I see a sentiment like this I feel obliged to argue the density is great, "natural" (traditional villages are much denser places than most US exurbs, and there is no reason why even a very large city can't be essentially a patchwork of "villages"), sustainable, and ought to be pleasant. "Mega City 1" does not have to look like Manhattan, Tokyo, or Soviet housing blocks. It could look more like this
Downtown+Zaragoza+Spain+Large.jpeg
or this
4920.jpg

than this
ghows-PR-0289ca13-342c-4624-b381-c955ea00d8e9-0cc38e82.jpeg


or this
Rainelle_2017_by_Lukas_Ray.jpg
 

NativeTongue

Member
Oct 4, 2023
1,568
NYC
I would never move to a small time. There's too many things I love in life that would be impossible to experience with the ease that comes with living in a city. Something as simple as going to the museum becomes an event I have I plan weeks in advance because of the time it would take to transverse from the small town to even a mid size city. Or seeing live music.
 

StarStorm

"This guy are sick"
Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
8,012
Would you move to rural America?
No. There aren't a lot of job opportunities there. Rent would be cheap, but who would want to live there? There isn't a lot of things to do especially in a small town. They should ask themselves why aren't workers coming here? Most young people go to the cities for opportunities. Their politicians aren't doing anything other than promoting immigrants stealing their jobs and they should be deported. After decades of self-sabotage, this is where we're at.
 

werezompire

Zeboyd Games
Verified
Oct 26, 2017
12,391
I grew up in an upscale rural resort town. Cost of houses were expensive, there weren't very many jobs in the area, you needed to drive about half an hour to the nearest city if you wanted to buy anything that the local grocery store and gas stations didn't offer. Not surprisingly, most kids leave the town when they grow up for more convenient areas with job opportunities.

I live in Taiwan now and I love it. A big problem with these rural places is that you absolutely need to own a car. Here, I'm in a big city and I don't feel the need for a car. I have tons of stuff available within walking distance (multiple grocery stores, malls, restaurants, etc.). Ubers are cheap and I can use to get to places that are outside walking distance. There's an MRT station a couple blocks away that also connects to a high-speed train station, as well as plenty of bus stops so there are lots of public transportation options. Even though I work from home, it'd be extremely hard to go from all this and move to some place in rural America and not feel like it was a huge downgrade.
 

Skyshark

Member
Apr 26, 2021
1,472
I personally cannot wait to move to a rural area. Been looking at places in Appalachia (NC, WV, KY, etc) and hope to buy a fixer upper in a year or 2 and move within 5 years. I'm 42 and have lived in Chicagoland my entire life and am so tired of city living. Definitely won't make as much money, but idc. Happiness is worth more than a paycheck.
 

elLOaSTy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,135
Because living in mega city 1 sounds like such a great time

Never suggested that. Feels like a pretty major misread of my statement.

In fact I wrote the words "larger towns and smaller cities" I never said mega cities.

We need more cities and new ones of varying sizes, new development would be easier to design around the needs of people away from cars and towards a more sustainable and enjoyable lifestyle.

Im suggesting we help build these places by naturally growing existing smaller cities or larger towns and offer those in areas without opportunity a way out of their dying towns.
 

ShadowAUS

Member
Feb 20, 2019
2,345
Australia
Rural America has a lot of the same issues as Rural Australia, and the same lack of solutions. We've been trying a few things for a while now with regards to limiting a lot of immigration to rural locations, and requiring things like placements be done in rural locations etc. The problem that both of these have found is that after the required amount of time, by and large people leave to larger areas whether that's the regional capital, or one of the state capitals. It's essentially keeping small country towns on life support but not actually reviving them. And to be honest I'm not sure there's a solution to that.

The jobs just aren't great, there's not much to do, you're far and away from the things most people like being able to have the option of having (seeing a theatre show, seeing live music, going to a museum, eating out at multiple high quality diverse food places, having access to a wide array of shopping options, having a broad and diverse array of jobs etc), the diverse communities a lot of people seek just aren't there, and unless you like the particular brand of politics a lot of these places bring you will find you probably won't fit in. They also tend to be underserved by infrastructure, particularly in relation to health care and education, but also with regards to things like poor internet infrastructure, as well as having a stark lack of culturally safe places and services for diverse populations to find comfort, support, assistance, and community within.

For the average person there's no reason to stay in these small towns other than housing prices being actually achievable, but houses could be as cheap as chips and most people still won't want to move to a place where they're miserable but with a mortgage instead of rent, for a house that will most likely be unsellable at close to for a reasonable value in a decade or two. The quality of life between somewhere like where I grew up near Eugowra (pop. 650~), to even a nearby major rural capital like Wagga Wagga (pop. 60k~) is astronomical, and the quality of life between Wagga Wagga and a bigger semi-urban city like Ballarat (pop. 120k~) that is within actual commutable (1 to 1 and half hour drive/train ride~) distance to a state capital is astronomical again. The benefits past that, say moving to the larger Geelong (pop. 300k~) or directly to the state capital of Melbourne (pop. 5.3m), are much smaller and they start to introduce a lot more downsides to go along.

What's the solution? Subsidisation to keep these towns on life support so that they can continue to serve the needs of industries built around them like agriculture? Eventually the cost of this will balloon to an unsustainable degree, which is why Australia has been trying to find a solution. Letting them die and shift to moving the functions of these towns (and populations) to larger regional centres, like a Wagga Wagga, that can self-sustain? This is probably the rip the bandaid solution but it won't happen as it would be deeply unpopular, and at least as far as Australia goes we don't have the population for the density of larger cities to cover our masses of agricultural land inevitably leaving a lot of farmers worse of - the US has the population density where this is more feasible but they also have the political system that gives outsized influence to these small rural areas that makes it impossible.
Whatever it is Australia has been throwing money at trying to find it for years now, and small towns and cities keep slowly shrinking. Immigration is good for a lot of things, but this is an issue it hasn't shown to be effective on, because immigrants don't want to be the sacrificial offal that feeds generally terrible dying towns with poor quality of life.
 

regenhuber

Member
Nov 4, 2017
5,509
There was a small talk of rural being revived by WFH. There was movement, but it was mostly to inner ring suburbs, not rural areas.

Young professionals and families still want to access to amenities missing in rural America.

I live in the Berlin suburbs. Not super rural (like a 45 min drive to the Brandenburg Gate, 20mins to Berlin West) but still not one of those suburbs that blend into the city.
Really works well for us as I work from home 100% and my wife teaches at a school nearby, but if one of us had to go to the office every day in the centre, it would be a dealbreaker.
As long as you stay within 30km of the city limits you also meet similar people you would meet in the city, you have similar shops and restaurants etc. But prices are also similar.

Once you get 60-70km away from the city you can really find cheap houses and shit but at what cost?
You are now kinda doomed to get a WFH job, what would my wife do as a teacher?
The people and vibe will be very different, you will have jackshit to do and good luck making friends in a town where everyone grew up together expect you. And if you have darker skin or aren't straight, I wish you even more good luck.
Co worker of mine tried to do it and even tho he was 100% WFH and internet speeds were fine he came back.
Was just impossible for him to enjoy his big backyard when he couldn't share it with his friends.

And tbh if you and your SO are both 100% WFH what is even the point to move to a shitty dying village to save money when you could just go to Vietnam and get a beach mansion for that cash?
 

Night Hunter

Member
Dec 5, 2017
2,872
Rural America*: Help, we're dying!

Rest: Sure, just change and I'll ...

Rural America: NO!

*not only a US thing
 
Mar 11, 2020
7,348
And tbh if you and your SO are both 100% WFH what is even the point to move to a shitty dying village to save money when you could just go to Vietnam and get a beach mansion for that cash?
Unfortunately due to laws, most jobs won't let you wfh overseas indefinitely. I wish humans were more set up to globally do that, but unless you rich and in a higher up position that can get away with it, that ain't happening for general workers.
 

Transistor

Or else Pizza is gonna send out for you
Administrator
Oct 25, 2017
38,495
Washington, D.C.
And tbh if you and your SO are both 100% WFH what is even the point to move to a shitty dying village to save money when you could just go to Vietnam and get a beach mansion for that cash?
Speaking personally, I have to live in the US to work for my employer, so my options are limited to that. It's that way with a lot of WFH companies in the US.
 

Lashes.541

Member
Dec 18, 2017
2,117
Roseburg Oregon
I love living in a rural area to be honest, my town has 5,000pop but is fifteen minutes from a town of almost 30,000. So I go there for work and grocery's or food and get out as soon as I can, it's a cesspool of crime and drug addicts, most dangerous town in Oregon from the crime rate per amount of people. My town has a dollar general of course, I hate it, but also a grocery outlet and multiple food truck and restaurants, the thing about a rural town is at two in the morning you can go for a walk and not see a single car or person! It's dead quiet at night. I fucking love that because I have a sleep disorder. I want to rarely as much as possible have to deal with people, my job involves dealing with people, you get in a small town less shit about the neighbors getting involved in your business. In Oregon you do not want the government or city involved in you're life, trust me, there insane and corrupt as hell! As hard as it is to believe I'm sure on resetera a massive amount of people want to own land and do what ever they want, if they want to go do donuts in the backyard in there car they can go do it lol. I grew up way out in the sticks my whole life as a kid, never understood it, I was a skater and hip hop nerd, I wanted so bad to be on concrete all my life, now at 39 I'm like dad, I fucking get it! I understand now why you wanted to raise you're family a mile from
The next neighbor.
 
Oct 26, 2017
5,756
It's either drive-by or diatribe about the multitude of reasons natural to capitalism exacerbated by the overrepresentation of shitty beliefs that drive non-bigoted people out of these areas. Choose your poison but America is in a place where we're not in the feel bad for them because of capitalism stage yet. They could've hung in longer if they weren't so shitty towards the "other" and actively killed anything that would have kept them thriving for at least another generation
 

Rampage

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,275
Metro Detriot
Rural America*: Help, we're dying!

Rest: Sure, just change and I'll ...

Rural America: NO!

*not only a US thing

Yup. The root of the problem of many rural areas, is that they refuse to change for the sake of the next generations.

I grew up in farmland between 2 small towns. They were similar while I was a kid. But decades later, one is thriving and holding it own, while the other one dead. Difference is one choose to make it a place some people want to live. The other choose to serve a dying, stagnant generation.

The thriving town added new shops and venues. It invited in small business to keep those who stay employed. It built small tourism to bring in outside money multiple times a year. They have a small selection of customer service, blue collar and white collar jobs in town or nearby. It will never be a small city, but works hard to stay a thriving town. One where you can get the basic necessity while still enjoying a slower pace of life.

The other absolutely refuses to any new ideas or growth, because they like it the way it is. The once of year festival they have based around blueberries, they have to ship in blueberries cause the town orchard is an abandoned farm. A business dies and the council fights against anyone who wants to replace it. Their one block of "downtown" are all empty brick buildings. They actively drive people way. There are no jobs. No future.
 

Fulminator

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,394
I've been reading a lot of climate related literature recently. And the idea of just completely rewilding and abandoning vast swathes of land should be much more meaningfully discussed than it currently is.
Not just a few acres here and there. Entire states should be returned to nature.
in theory we could definitely condense the human footprint of this country by an insane amount by consolidating cities and towns into a much denser area, but how we get people to move and transfer/build infrastructure, etc I have no idea how that could work. It would have to be a many many years long process.
 

Isilia

Member
Mar 11, 2019
6,171
US: PA
Unfortunately, I'm still in rural America. If you move here, you can have a house for $300k and a job that pays $10 an hour. I wonder why people move away.

Main complaint is that there is no desire to work here. Every small place I go has 2-3 people running around like crazy. Help wanted signs are always plastered on their windows. They aren't coming.

Dad wants to move back here, but complains about the above talking points. Self fulfilling misery cycle
 

Antrax

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,806
Would you move to rural America?
Definitely, I'm moving back to rural MS next month. But I generally hate living in cities; they're great to visit but not my thing long-term.

For the topic, yeah a lot of smaller places without a solid tax base are going to need to switch things up. Probably have to pivot to county-level govt as a way to pool resources, and enter into multi-county partnerships (ex. Community College in Mississippi is tuition-free through multi-county agreements - for example, ICC is free for all Benton, Calhoun, Chickasaw, Itawamba, Lafayette, Lee, Monroe and Pontotoc
County residents)

edit:
I feel like rural areas could draw people in by heavily emphasizing lightning fast internet speeds for wfh and then setting up smallish town centers with things to do in them.

People move to cities because of the infrastructure but hate the costs.
Provide a smaller version of that experience with some of the same luxuries that you can get in cities at a fraction of the cost (actual grocery stores, bars and social gathering spaces, a decent hospital and decent schools) and you'll see people moving in.

For me, the suburbs are ideal. I like having a private space that I can call my own without having to share walls with strangers.

This is why I love small college towns in particular. Bluer politics and the amenities you mentioned are all there usually. The happiest days of my life were in Oxford, MS and other places I'd consider settling down in would be like Athens, GA or Asheville/Boone, NC.

But I'm also a huge fan of nature; my wife and I drive out of Boston most weekends to hike or sightsee parks and forests. Other folks are satisfied with things like the Greenway here, but as people from very rural, natural places, it's all too artificial for us to really enjoy.

The Biden Admin did pass broadband improvements to rural America in the Infrastructure bill. The issue, is that the money is frozen in state and local governments as they put out bids. Knowing how these things work as NYC did something similar with Verizon, it's going to take a long time and also the providers will rip off the government as per usual.

A lot of rural areas now have straight-up fiber internet (or equivalent speeds through older means). This is the FCC's broadband map as of December last year for north Mississippi:

Lots of white but also a lot of dark blue, 100% coverage areas.
 
Last edited: